Thread Number: 24982
"Kirby will just be a name on Chinese clone vacuums"
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Post# 280908   5/17/2014 at 23:37 (3,603 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

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I had watched a video of a Kirby G3 Trash find by a Youtuber I frequently watch, and since I had commented on a post I keep getting notifications for comments posted.

 

I am the only icon that you can see fully (also "Mr.")

 

You'll probably want to look at the image before reading what I have to say.

 

First and foremost, I really doubt Kirby will stop making Old Style bags any time soon. They have too many Kirbys that use them. (HII - Sentria 2010(ish))

 

Second, did they seriously stop making the light bulbs? I know you can still purchase light bulbs for older machines like Sanitronics so I'd assume they didn't discontinue the bulbs.

 

The last topic of discussion is that Kirby (like Fantom or Kenmore) will be a name printed on plastic vacs that are sold in Walmart. I presume this guy means within the next 20 years. 

 

 

I really, really don't think Kirby will ever get to this level of filth. Sure their selling scheme is pretty bad (D2D is no longer a really practical sales model, though it does work,) but Kirby has too high of an ego to ever do this. They pull in a lot of cash for their current Kirbys. I presume innovation costs are pretty low with how close all the machines within the last 20 years are. One of the reasons Kirbys sell are due to their longevity and reliability. Them becoming a "name" for plastic vacs is not how Kirby is. They are proud of their history. They sell a lot of machines due to their ego. I just don't see this in the future of Kirby.

 

However, I'd love to see where this topic goes. Share your opinion on whether or not $2000 Kirbys will become a thing of the past.

 


Post# 280976 , Reply# 1   5/18/2014 at 17:28 (3,602 days old) by BikerRay (Middle Earth)        

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I can still get parts for Kirbys that are 60 years old, I can't see a Kirby from Asia having parts still available 10 minutes after the boat arrives from China.

Post# 280981 , Reply# 2   5/18/2014 at 18:10 (3,602 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

They will be made in China if TTI decide on a hostile takeover of Kirby. I'm surprised TTI haven't been sniffing around for taking over Tacony, Miele or SEBO too. They seem to like swallowing everything that stands in their way, and transferring it all to China. TTI are like the BORG, and China is the BORG CUBE. (Star trek fans will know what I mean)


Post# 280986 , Reply# 3   5/18/2014 at 19:23 (3,602 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

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That Borg analogy is an excellent one madabouthoovers!!!


Post# 281013 , Reply# 4   5/18/2014 at 20:56 (3,602 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
No Hostile take over of Kirby is going to happen

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The company is owned by Berkshire Hathaway with a current market value of $312 billion, with no consequential debt and usually about $40-$50 billion in "cash and equivalents" on hand at any given time.
They own Geico Insurance, a large share of Coca Cola and the entire BNSF Railway. That names only a few of the dozens of large, and extremely large holdings of the mega conglomerate. Kirby is one of their smallest.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 281014 , Reply# 5   5/18/2014 at 20:56 (3,602 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
The Chinese Kirby

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Is a fate no Vacuum collector dreams of. Kirby is one of the last few QUALITY vacuum producers out there today. TTI wouldn't know QUALITY if it shot them in the foot. TTI usually buys out the bankrupt companies (Remember, Hoover was owned by Maytag before being sold to TTI, and Oreck filed Bankruptcy before being bought-out). Has there been a Case of Hostile Take-Over?


Post# 281026 , Reply# 6   5/18/2014 at 21:33 (3,602 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

You could say that TTI are like vultures in that respect, only preying on weak or failing companies, in order to eliminate their own competition one by one. So Kirby is part of a large conglomerate now then. The time to worry is when a company falls into Chinese hands - you know quality will then decline markedly. The Chinese like to pile it high and sell it cheap. Much like Walmart.


Post# 281027 , Reply# 7   5/18/2014 at 21:38 (3,602 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I am so

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Sick of the TTI bashing . If it wasn't for them there would be NO Hoover Oreck Royal or Dirt Devil .
They make quality vacuums and will bring manufacturing back to the USA .
I own MANY Chinese Hoovers and the machines are amazing in quality . They don't offer five year warrantys on their products because they are junk they are built to a higher standard they pay more and get a better product . Oreck will continue to be made in the US along side of other vacuums including Hoover and Royal . They are a family owned company from Europe who truly care about their brands and products they produce . Unions killed products made in the US companies had no choice but to move operations to China or risk going out of business .

Dan


Post# 281071 , Reply# 8   5/19/2014 at 12:45 (3,601 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
Dan,

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I agree with you about TTI "Saving" Hoover, Oreck and the rest. Hoovers are a half-decent vacuum considering they're made in china, but still could not compete with the metal uprights of yesteryear. Oreck is still in the US, For now. The day TTI manufactures in the U.S.A is the day they gain my support. Still, TTI has had some hits-and-misses. Wasn't it the T-Series Hoover that had a cord-fire problem? I remember reading something along the lines of that. Dirt Devil is still on the cheap end, remember the ALUMINUM motor windings in the Featherlite model a while back? TTI,or China for that matter, only produce a vacuum to the cost desired to the manufacturer, and is TTI not the manufacturer themselves?


Post# 281074 , Reply# 9   5/19/2014 at 13:33 (3,601 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR)        

While anythings possible, and ultimately Warren Buffett is most interested in generating profits, I don't think it's very likely that he sells Kirby any time soon.

the negative comments on youtube about Kirby sound like whining from either a competitor or a disgruntled lunatic. How exactly has "Kirby gotten progressively worse over the years?" Why would they discontinue making bags for Kirbys? Bags are a big moneymaker.

Hopefully it's not the kiss of death, but Consumer Reports has been very complimentary of Kirby vacuums as of late.


Post# 281142 , Reply# 10   5/19/2014 at 22:30 (3,601 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

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I too hope Kirby stays in the U.S. for the foreseeable future.

I mean, its main competitor Royal didn't reach 100 years until three years after TTI took over that company.

~Ben


Post# 281156 , Reply# 11   5/20/2014 at 04:04 (3,600 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

What Royal machines handled by TTI are still made here?Any recently purchased metal Royals I have were built in China.They are still good machines-but two dealerships I know have dropped TTI from their lines of machines they carry.Both dealers don't like how TTI does business.

Post# 281162 , Reply# 12   5/20/2014 at 05:42 (3,600 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
None

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Yet Rex . That's the opinion of two vacuum shops you have that with any brand in a business .

Dan


Post# 281165 , Reply# 13   5/20/2014 at 06:12 (3,600 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Oh yes,know of a third--they dropped the Royal lines.The dealers carry other brands-namely Tacony type machines.At least many of their models are made in the country where they are going to be sold and used-US.Don't understand TTI-the metal Royal machines are primarily sold and used in the US-would make more sense to continue building them here-shipping costs are going to eat up the "savings" of building them in China.It will happen eventually.

Post# 281167 , Reply# 14   5/20/2014 at 06:38 (3,600 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
And here in

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
NJ there are four vacuum shops that I know of carry Hoover and Royal metal . Being a former vacuum shop owner you carry brands that you like PERIOD . Ownership has its privilege's and the products you believe in you carry .

Dan


Post# 281288 , Reply# 15   5/21/2014 at 04:11 (3,599 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

To get a Royal machine in my area have to go to Goldsboro or Kinston-there are two dealers in those towns that stock Royals.One of the dealers I knew of in Greeville is out of business-the owner died.the other is still going strong.another is one that is in Viginia-near Wash DC.However there are lots of other dealers in the Wash DC area that stock Royal-TTI.

Post# 281380 , Reply# 16   5/21/2014 at 22:45 (3,599 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

While it may be easy to blame China for many of our woes, it isn't quite that simple. The truth is, China is not free of woes either. Did you know that China has LOST manufacturing jobs over the past 10 years? Did you know that Chinese automobile companies are LOSING market share to foreign owned companies? Did you know that GM and Volkswagen sell more cars in China than Toyota, Honda, and Nissan? It's not all Walmart's fault either. Roughly 60% of the products they sell were sourced from the U.S. It's also false that U.S. manufacturing is in decline. Output has grown by 40% since 1975. U.S. industrial output is more than double Germany and almost double Japan's. It is neck and neck with China's output. The U.S. is the world's largest producer of MANY things... Medical and surgical equipment, paper, computer chips, plastics, advanced polymers, advanced fibers and textiles, fiber optical cable, aircraft and components, software, biotechnology products, scientific instruments, manufactured and modular buildings, heavy machinery, locomotives, consumer goods (detergents, cleaners, soaps, toothpaste, mouthwash, toothpicks, cosmetics, bleach, toiletries, colognes, perfumes, dental products, etc). It's also one of the top 5 producers of automobiles and components, machine tools, ships, yachts, boats, chemicals, steel, appliances, and aluminum. The next time someone tells you we don't make anything anymore, you can correct them. Germany has done well despite being a high wage "union" country with manufacturing. Does anyone really think that Mercedes Benz and BMW are hurting??? NO. Germany dominates the luxury car market worldwide. It's appliance industry ain't hurting either. In fact, Germany's industrial output has thrived. It's not solely about wages. It's about quality and competitive advantage and transportation costs. It's not so simple. China's wages are rising so fast that their cost advantage has almost been erased compared to the west. I'll never figure out why Americans are so cowardly and fearful. Rather than just give up and resenting others we should double down on it.

Post# 281451 , Reply# 17   5/22/2014 at 14:08 (3,598 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Thought I doubt that Kirby

will be assembled in China anytime soon, they are already using "globally sourced parts.

Kirby bags are now "Assembled in China from US sourced materials." I asked the local dealer about this, stating that I would pay extra for the US made parts. They advised that "Kirby sold their equipment and the bags are now made in China (Period).

Again doubt that Buffett will sell off Kirby, because he buys what he likes, and he likes the Kirby system. But he is not beyond turning a profit, and if that includes "globally sourcing parts" it will happen.


Post# 281467 , Reply# 18   5/22/2014 at 15:13 (3,598 days old) by ncovert (Grove City, PA)        

I don't think Kirby stopped making replacement lightbulbs for the older vacuums. I seriously doubt they'll quit making the old-style bags either.

 

I think Kirby needs to stop with the door to door sales, people don't want to sit through a huge sales pitch with less-than-competent salespeople. Drop the giant price tag as well. Make the distributors Kirby stores, where people can go see a demo if they want to see a demo.

 

On another note, why the ugly black censor bars? It's Youtube. Anyone can see the comments. I know EXACTLY what video it is.


Post# 281475 , Reply# 19   5/22/2014 at 16:46 (3,598 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

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I thought I read somewhere here on Vacuumland that all Kirby light bulbs were made by Sylvania. Anyone else see that thread?

 


Post# 281506 , Reply# 20   5/22/2014 at 21:10 (3,598 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

Another thing that dooms China in the very long run is demographics. Thanks to the government-forced one child policy, China will likely get "old" before it gets rich. China's population is aging at a velocity never before seen on Earth. It's median age has gone from 20 something to 40 something in scant 2 generations. By 2040, 40% of China's population will be over the age of 65. History shows it's not possible to be a massive economic or military power when you're people are supporting that many elderly people. Not to mention that China is 75% desert and is rapidly running out of water. Not to mention the fact that China's cities' air is so dirty that it's equal to smoking TEN PACKS of cigarettes a day (dwarfing Los Angeles' smog). Not to mention that China's waterways are filled with sewage, garbage, and dead fish thanks to massive pollution... China seems like an all conquering behemoth sometimes but it possesses none of the strengths of the West. There is no rule of law. There is no private property. There is no government accountability. There is little individual freedom. The ONLY thing that shows an ability to generate economic growth over the long haul is increasing productivity. China is showing no real growth in productivity. Population size isn't the only thing that matters when it comes to economics. The average American worker is 20 times more productive than China's. ALL the Western countries are FAR ahead of it also. The "decliners" have been at it since the 1950's. I would say the fact that the U.S. is now the world's largest producer of natural gas and the second largest producer of oil changes the equation. The U.S. has massive natural resources, including "rare earth" materials. China holds no inherent monopoly on anything.

Post# 281513 , Reply# 21   5/22/2014 at 23:20 (3,598 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

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ncovert, I'm used to Reddit where the rule for the whole site is "Don't post personal information." Therefore, I blank out all images.

 

Since that rule doesn't exist here, it's Maxxarcade's "Trash Picked Kirby Vacuum 5-14-14"

 

sptyks, I didn't, but that sure makes sense.

 

Electromatik, I completely agree. Why would you change over to a place that no longer has any real benefit of producing your machine? Just to save $20? 

 

One of the reasons there are so many Kirbys is due to the reliability. Having machines made by people who don't care would have a decline in the purchase and use of Kirbys. Not a very good thing for the S&F Company.




Post# 281527 , Reply# 22   5/23/2014 at 04:03 (3,597 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Kirby store-they had this when I lived in the Wash DC area during the 70's-80's don't know what there is now near town.If you wanted to see the demo and purchase the machine you went to the store.Electrolux had a similar thing.DTD demos weren't done in that area unless you were far away from town.Like say in Manassas VA,Had a TriStar Compact demo-bought the machine.Last of the IEC ones before the "Lux" design.
For things built in China-remember the workers building the product are never going to likely purchase or own the item they are building.And the cost of shipping between the US and China is rising.Due to new EPA regulations-ships carrying goods to and from the US and docking at US ports will now have to use low sulphur fuels.This gets VERY expensive compared to the former high sulphur fuels they used to use.Most of these boats now use Diesel engines that are like 50,000Hp!The boiler and turbines are going away to the large Diesels Lower engine costs-lower maintenance,fewer crew members in the engine rooms-and better fuel economy.Other Diesel engines run generators to run the electrical systems on the ship.Bet eventually the new EPA rules will catch up to the long distance shipping-esp if raw materials are shipped from the US to China-then the finished goods shipped back-like the Kirby bags.Bet eventually the bag production will move back to the US.


Post# 281542 , Reply# 23   5/23/2014 at 08:15 (3,597 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I was quite shocked when I saw this on a pack of HEPA bags I bought too - Kirby charging so much for these bags £25 a pack in the UK on average, and then making them in China! The older style paper bags still had made in USA on them


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 281545 , Reply# 24   5/23/2014 at 08:29 (3,597 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Makes NO

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
difference to me dirt goes in them then they go in the trash end of story.
They could be made on the moon for all I care everyone is making such a big deal out of NOTHING . Welcome to 2014 and beyond ...


Dan


Post# 281567 , Reply# 25   5/23/2014 at 14:07 (3,597 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

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Kirby never made their own bags. They always sourced them. It's the bag manufacturer that makes them in China.

Kirby doesn't make their own headlights, they buy them.

The Chinese will make a vacuum out of any material, and to any quality, that's demanded.

TTI doesn't make their own vacuums. Neither does Eureka. Neither does Shark and Bissell. Virtually all those machines are made by King Clean in China. TTI works with their engineers to design what they want, and King Clean makes the vacuum.

You'll notice that Hoover's Multi Cyclonic canister is identical in design to the Eureka AirExcell, which is the same vacuum as the Bissell PowerGroom canister. They are the same machine.




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