Thread Number: 24875
Ebay Scam -- Best course of action? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 279619   5/6/2014 at 21:29 (3,635 days old) by DJub85 (Virginia)        

Hey guys,

Sad story... I was expanding my Aerus/Electrolux collection with a white Lux Legacy (to compliment my new 90th Edition Legacy), and when the item arrived today, it was clear that the machine had been used with a torn bag or with no bag at all. There were rocks in the bag compartment, and the motor/fan hole was clogged with dirt, debris, and more rocks!!! How crazy is that?

I contacted the seller, and he's being a jerk. I made the mistake of leaving positive feedback before I found the problem. The machine arrived lightning fast, and when it turns on, it still sucks strong and sounds pretty normal, though it's a little louder than my 90th (probably because of the clogged motor hole). So I left positive feedback and went about my business. Later, I went to replace the included bag (like I always do when I buy a new vacuum), and that's when I found the rocks and clogged hole. What a bummer.

Anyways, the guy is asking, "Why was it perfect when you first got it, but now it won't work? What did you do to it?" I tried to explain the situation, but he's not being friendly. I've only had the machine in my possession for 5 hours. I would have had to keep it running continuously with no bag outside in my rock garden to have created this mess in 5 short hours. Have any of you guys had an experience like this before? What's the best course of action?

Should I stay on the seller and try to get him to compromise?

Should I contact Ebay buyer protection and get them to solve the case?

Should I just give up and try to trade it in at the local Aerus store on something else before the crook ruins my 100% positive feedback score?

I paid $300 for it. The seller didn't know its age, but it looks to be pretty new (at least 2012 I'm guessing) because it has a black cord. Earlier models of the same white version of the Legacy had a gray cord. Let me know what you guys think. I included a picture of the bag compartment and a link to the original auction. All I know is that I don't want this machine... the motor will surely crap out in the near future.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO DJub85's LINK on eBay


Post# 279620 , Reply# 1   5/6/2014 at 21:42 (3,635 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

tase's profile picture

Definitely contact eBay. eBay has sided with me on a couple of things that have happened and I have either gotten partial or full refunds plus getting to keep the item.

 

The item did not arrive as described. Also, you can change the feedback up to 24 or 48 hours of leaving feedback.
Post# 279631 , Reply# 2   5/6/2014 at 23:34 (3,635 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
My advice to you is

 gottahaveahoove's profile picture
CONTACT ebay and go as FAR as you can or as far as you HAVE to! If you get hot enough, they'll listen. Best of luck.
John

Post# 279635 , Reply# 3   5/7/2014 at 00:29 (3,635 days old) by bimmer740 (Long Island, New York)        

bimmer740's profile picture
Contact eBay right away! I bought an Aerus Guardian a few years ago from a seller who claimed the machine was like new, had a new HEPA filter, and had been cleaned and inspected. The machine was not even close to what he claimed and it didn't look like the one that was pictured in the auction. The machine smelled and it's cord had been replaced with a much shorter cord, and it had next to no suction. I contacted the seller and when he was of no help, I contacted eBay directly. I hadn't left feedback for the seller yet and aside from the negative feedback I was going to leave eBay must have pressured the guy to do the right thing in order to keep his account in good standing. The seller ended up taking the machine back, and refunded my money minus the shipping costs. It was a small price to pay compared to the purchase price of a machine that was far from "perfect" and would have been a headache to deal with any further. Good luck!

Post# 279657 , Reply# 4   5/7/2014 at 09:25 (3,635 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        
It is Very Difficult to Contact eBay Directly

bagintheback's profile picture

Open a case against the buyer. There will be an option for "item not as described." Demand a full refund, as you clearly deserve one, and if the buyer refuses, escalate the case and eBay will almost certainly side with you. This has happened to me before. I was offered a partial refund, but held out for a full one from eBay, and won the case.   
Post# 279664 , Reply# 5   5/7/2014 at 13:15 (3,635 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR)        
Picture

Wow. That picture with the crap in the fan highlights a design flaw by Aerus Lux. If I were in the market for a premium canister, why choose a Lux over say a Riccar/Simplicity? the Riccar/Simplicities have better bags (i.e. cloth HEPA bags with better airflow) and presumably they have a pre-motor filter to keep the crap from getting to the fan.


Post# 279683 , Reply# 6   5/7/2014 at 15:33 (3,634 days old) by rugsucker (Elizabethton TN)        
"--motor will surely crap out--"

 If we could separate 2 issues here you do have a problem with EBay and the EBay seller that I hope can be resolved to your satisfaction.
But as to the Electrolux itself they have a bag lock out switch and every bag has filter layers inside meaning that the condition you do have and have pictured would be difficult to happen in any normal use.The seller or previous owner would almost have to try to abuse it or use wrong or torn bag (and then not mention in description).As to the motor crapping out,if you stop using it and had the bag chamber and fan system properly cleaned I feel every vac at the 'Chinese Dept Store' would crap out long before the Elux.If you knew someone that could do this at reasonable cost(that might be passed on to EBay seller)and IF you otherwise were satisfied with vac and attachments and felt it was good buy and otherwise good condition that might not be found again soon you might want to consider this.
I have seen worse that was cleaned and serviced and continued working well.The one bit of good news here is that all debris seems to have been dry(wet would be worse).

Post# 279705 , Reply# 7   5/7/2014 at 19:05 (3,634 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        
Typo

 bagintheback's profile picture

I just noticed I suggested to open a case against the buyer. I meant the seller, sorry. I shouldn't be on the internet early in the morning... 
Post# 279707 , Reply# 8   5/7/2014 at 19:20 (3,634 days old) by HooverCelebrity (Germany)        

Not to defend the seller, because they are clearly in the wrong - but they may not have any idea about what happened on the inside of the cleaner.  Many times people pick machines up at Estate sales, wipe them down, make sure they work (suck), and go on with their business of selling the machine on eBay.  Granted, they shouldn't have listed as being in perfect condition without thoroughly inspecting it, as that's a clear misrepresentation.  Aah, you can't fix ignorant!  LOL

 

I think Jimmy is right - get it fixed, or take it apart and clean the excess dirt out yourself, and you'll still very likely come out ahead with a nice machine that will last for a long time.  Perhaps you can get at least part of what you paid refunded, or the shipping.. or something. 

 

Best of luck!!

 

**edit -- looking at the auction again, it looks like the seller is pretty familiar with vacuum cleaners, based on their other auctions.  So they're probably being jerks, just to be jerks. 
Post# 279710 , Reply# 9   5/7/2014 at 19:42 (3,634 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Can U return the vacuum (if seller allows returns) because its not as described?

 

I think all eBay sellers should accept returns
Post# 279727 , Reply# 10   5/7/2014 at 22:51 (3,634 days old) by DJub85 (Virginia)        

Many thanks guys for the feedback. The seller is still being a total jerk. He continually accuses me of deliberately sabotaging the machine as part of a scam. Meanwhile, he hasn't once said that the motor hole was clean/clear when he listed the machine... which likely means that A) he never checked it, or B) he knew it was clogged when he listed it.

Furthermore, I found more evidence that he (or whoever the vacuum originally belonged to) intended to scam someone. Under the after-filter, the exhaust/blower hole was stuffed full with some kind of 1" thick mesh/netting. It kind of reminds me of a dish scrubbing pad, but it was thicker. The mesh/netting was being used to keep the vacuum from blowing dirt chunks into the after-filter or out through the side vents. This mesh is NOT an Electrolux/Aerus accessory, and it was FULL of thick dirt. I can't imagine how dirty the motor must be since all of that dirt had to go through it.

So frustrating! I don't want to wait another 2 days to further the claim with Ebay. I might take it by Aerus and see what they'll offer me on a trade against a new Legacy. If they'll give me a decent rate, I'm just going to trade it and close the case. I don't want to wait around for months to get a refund if Ebay has to pressure the a**hole. By then, all of the new white Legacy models will be gone for sure, if they aren't already. And that's all I really wanted in the first place to go with my black 90th. Plus, this machine has a cut cord. It doesn't affect operation, but it's all the way through the rubber. I knew that when I bought it, and it's pretty well taped, but it's just another reason to not fight over this vacuum. I'll be sure to let you guys know the outcome though... be it trade in, seller refund, or Ebay refund. Thanks again.

===on another note===

To ralph123--I agree with rugsucker, this is not a design flaw on Electrolux's part. The canister design of the Lux Legacy dates back to the 1968 1204 model, upon which 1984's 2100 series was closely based (today's Lux Legacy and Lux Classic are modern versions of the 2100), and even the 1204 was an evolution of the other C-style canisters of long ago. Electrolux has never had a problem with C style bags, nor have they ever had a problem with blower holes/motors getting clogged. If they did have problems with this, they wouldn't put 20 year warranties on their machines (the Guardian Ultra, until recently), and there wouldn't be so many used units still in perfect working condition. I have a 30 year old Diamond Jubilee, for example, that still works like new.

The Lux Legacy will not run without a bag in place. Like others have said, I have no idea how this machine ended up with this kind of damage. My guess is that someone used brittle, cheap aftermarket bags that tore open when those rocks were sucked up. Or else, I think it's entirely possible that somehow this canister wound up being used as a trashcan at some point with the bag door open and no bag inside. Then, when they put a bag back in and turned the machine on, they didn't clean out the reside. Just guesses. Whatever happened, it had to be exceedingly odd for this type of damage to occur with Electrolux's tried-and-true lockout system.

Also, FYI, Aerus does sell pre-motor filters for C-style vacuums such as the Lux Legacy. You can buy packs of charcoal filters at the Aerus online store or at the local dealers. This would have presumably greatly helped the issue with my white Legacy, but none was installed.



Post# 279747 , Reply# 11   5/8/2014 at 08:46 (3,634 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR)        

I would respectfully disagree about the lack of a pre-motor filter being a design flaw. It might have been fine 20-30 years ago since filter media wasn't as good. However, if you want to be a super premium vacuum company, you've got to have the best. Miele, Riccar, Simplicity, Sebo all have pre-motor filters after the bag to protect the fan/motor. Although it's rare, paper bags do fail.

Without question, this particular vacuum was abused. A fan first vacuum like a Kirby likely wouldn't have suffered any problems with this abuse. A vacuum with a premotor filter likely would be perfectly fine. But our Lux with possibly a torn bag has a fan full of garbage.

Post# 279797 , Reply# 12   5/8/2014 at 20:47 (3,633 days old) by DJub85 (Virginia)        

But Aerus now sells pre-motor filters for its older machines (see link). Isn't that enough? It theoretically means you can have a pre-motor filter in every C-style vacuum they've made since 1954, including their current line.

The newish Aerus Guardian Platinum has a full line of pre-motor filters, including a HEPA, but you can still put a more basic pre-motor filter in the Legacy to remove odors and protect against objects entering the motor. The previous owner of this machine did not have one though.

Speaking of the pictured Legacy, no word from the seller today. I can file a claim Friday night, but I think I'll wait until Saturday morning to see first how much I can get off of a trade in. They'll probably think I'm crazy since I just bought a 90th Legacy a month ago, but whatever.

I really have no interest in the super premium brands you speak of, though I do appreciate the suggestion and respect your opinion. For me, it's all about nostalgia. My grandparents kept a 1205 in their camper for years. They bought a Diamond Jubilee new, and they gave it to my parents when it was still almost new, and my parents gave it to me a few years ago. I just like the look of the machines, their reputation for reliability, and the fact that they're assembled in USA still (although I admit, I know at least Simplicity is made here, too). I know that there are many more modern vacuums than the Legacy, and most of them have better filtration. But I'd be lying if I told you that my house is nice enough to merit a premium vacuum, or that my respiratory system requires a premium vacuum. It doesn't. That's why I prefer nostalgia and reliability =) The DJ I have is 30 years old and running strong, and until last year, Aerus still sold new vacuums with 20 year warranties. I just can't trust other brands that much, you know? And even if I could, nothing else on the market "speaks to me" like the Legacy/Classic models. I love vintage things... turntables/vinyl, air-cooled Volkswagens, vintage metal fans, etc. And Aerus is one company who still makes vacuums that have a distinctly vintage vibe, minus the Platinum.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO DJub85's LINK
Post# 279851 , Reply# 13   5/9/2014 at 07:19 (3,633 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

countryguy's profile picture
Interesting. I looked at the filter prices for the Platinum. Buying them separately the pre-motor filter is $10.99 and the after filter is $25.29 but when you buy them both as a package the cost is $38.49. Why does it cost $2.21 more when bought together? Usually when items are packaged together the cost is less.

Gary

Post# 279864 , Reply# 14   5/9/2014 at 10:19 (3,633 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
It would be pointless to use a pre-motor bag compartment filter for the pre 1205 cleaners. The bag compartment in those was a cage, to equalize the pressure on all sides of the bag (look at a model L for example). Only when Electrolux cheapened the machine and went to the solid bag chamber, could you use a pre-motor filter. Any Automatic made from 1968 on, and any non-automatic made since 1980 will accept the charcoal filter.

Post# 280254 , Reply# 15   5/12/2014 at 15:02 (3,630 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
I bought a pack of 100 aftermarket bags on Ebay and I think they were sold by totalvac.com..This was for my Epic 6500...The bags are REALLY good and I've never had one fail, so I'm sure the genuine are even better......I cut into a bag and it has this filter type material around it.....but I've often wondered to myself.....There is an AFTER FILTER, right? So then, if there's an after filter, wouldn't that mean that it's to trap dust that escapes the bag? And then wouldn't that dust have to go THROUGH the motor, causing the motor to get dirty?? I dunno? But on my after filter, all I usually see is black carbon dust....I don't think much escapes them to be honest..

I still mostly use my Rainbow but I do really like my Epic 6500.


Post# 280264 , Reply# 16   5/12/2014 at 16:09 (3,629 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
I cut to fit one of my Miele pre motor filters for the bottom of the Silverado, it does get dirty

Post# 280407 , Reply# 17   5/13/2014 at 20:42 (3,628 days old) by DJub85 (Virginia)        

Mark, I really do like the Epic 6000/6500 series, too. Very vintage looking... they remind me of the 1205, color-wise. I'm glad I found another when my first 6000 arrived with a bad motor from ebay. Nice machine! Any pictures of yours? It's probably a bit nicer than mine...

Dysonman, I forgot about the older machines and their filter cages. I'm the opposite of most Electrolux enthusiasts; I'm really only interested in the 1205-1521 metal body series and the Epic 6000-Lux Legacy plastic body series (and its derivatives... Guardian Ultra, Classic, 2100, Ambassador, etc). Most Electrolux fans prefer only vacuums before the 1205, I think. It's probably a product of my age; I don't remember the older stuff. But yeah... Aerus does sell pre-motor carbon filters for the 1205, 2100, Lux Legacy, etc., that would prevent rocks and dirt from entering the motor in the event of a bag failure.

Update on my Ebay case... I went ahead and traded the busted Legacy on a brand new white one at Aerus. I really didn't need two new Legacy models (counting my black 90th), but oh well. I got a decent deal, but I wound up also trading my used Guarian Ultra in, too, to get a slightly better trade. I might regret that later if I can't find a replacement for it, but when I purchased the Ultra a month ago (also on Ebay... beware...), it was scratched up and smelled like cigarette smoke. So hopefully one day I'll find a nicer one to buy back.

My collection is ridiculous right now though... I'm going to need a bigger house with a vacuum room. I'm not sure how I went from 1 to 7 in a matter of 2 months. Oops. =) I'll call it quits (probably) after I eventually replace the Ultra.


Post# 280542 , Reply# 18   5/14/2014 at 20:24 (3,627 days old) by s31463221 (Frenchburg, KY)        
Dave

 s31463221's profile picture
Don't feel bad, vacuums seem to multiply like rabbits around here! I like the older ones too, but the automatic metal body ones I like as well. I have a 1205 brand new in the box, all the way up to a 1521 Ultralux Commemorative Edition. Watch out sitting them too close together though as I somehow managed to be pushing close to 200 of them now! Like I said, they multiply like rabbits!! :-)


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