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Thread Number: 24574
Sebos reaction to the new EU regulaitons on vacuum wattage!? |
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| Post# 275313 4/9/2014 at 13:44 (3,659 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
I'm a little shocked, confused and amused by what I saw on Sebo UK's website under the news section at the bottom of the page www.sebo.co.uk/news/events/eu-suc...
Does this person work for Sebo ? And or does she voice their opinions and views publicly? If that is the case, I much admire Sebos way of thinking and doing things. Basically stating "EU sucks he power from your vacuum", saying vacuums wil become less powerful after the 2017 900watt maximum power for the motors. To be honest, and I know that power isn't everything, me having a 1300 felix and the performance it gives in an example, but on a political level, this is petty. I don't think reducing the maximum wattage for vacuum motors is going to save the planet when China are building and opening 1 coal powered power station per week. It is corrupt, and at the end of the day, the EU consumer will be worse off. Vacuum manufactures may put the prices up of their cleaners to compensate for the R&D needed to produce 900watt efficient motors that work as well as they can, and initially, the cleaners might not be as good. Who knows. | ||
| Post# 275314 , Reply# 1 4/9/2014 at 13:54 (3,659 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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I think they looked at the newspaper article & copied it. | ||
| Post# 275335 , Reply# 2 4/9/2014 at 16:32 (3,659 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
the EU consumer will be worse off
that is absolutely not true. The new EU legislation will force companies who have got away with using near 20 year old designs but constantly upping the motor wattage to keep up with new technology. It will mean more thought will have to go into cleaners. It's widely known that the motor wattage does not always directly affect the suction, but that design is a more important factor.
Just look at the 700w Panasonic 40 series and 800w Hoover Turbopower 2 and Electrolux Contour - fantastic suction power, certainly enough to rival most modern cleaners. | ||
| Post# 275380 , Reply# 3 4/9/2014 at 18:19 (3,659 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Actually the consumer WILL be worse off...
The consumer will be worse off when these new "eco friendly" vacs come onto the market from brands who are currently selling high powered vacuums - look at Hoover's current Eco-G TeliosPlus based cylinder vac. It costs £115 to £120 for that version compared to the £70 to £90 version that has higher motor power.
Miele's S8 Silence Plus with the new 700 watt motor costs £300 when their normal 1200 watt Ecoline version costs £240 and the 2000 watt motor version costs £200. Yes, perhaps long term the consumer possibly won't be worse off IF those vacuums are better built in terms of better sealed suction, airflow and quality. But then, at what cost price? Oli - The person who wrote the press statement is SEBO UK's managing director, Justin Binks. He and his father were responsible for bringing SEBOs to the UK As for lowering watts - well thank god there are still brands out there who have always offered lower power - otherwise we'd all be using vintage vacuums to "keep green and clean," but also at the same time running around looking for spare parts as well as out of production genuine dust bags, filters and other required consumables dependent on type. Cue the lack of brush roll replacements for Hoover's TP2/3 series? | ||
Post# 275390 , Reply# 4 4/9/2014 at 21:11 (3,659 days old) by bagintheback  (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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 This is absurd. Many bypass motor vacuums have been produced that draw less than 900watts. The Electrolux Model G draws just 535watts, and I have never heard anyone complain about the suction it provides. Most American vacs top out at 1440watts, which is hardly necessary and simply a marketing ploy. I always considered Sebo a decent company, but this article does not make me happy. | ||
| Post# 275403 , Reply# 5 4/10/2014 at 01:31 (3,659 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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My X1 is about to come full circle then! 800w in there! If I use a 400w Turbopower for a daily driver does the EU have to give me money back? | ||
| Post# 275430 , Reply# 6 4/10/2014 at 08:22 (3,659 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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I am certainly not against manufacturers investing in more efficient technology and yes, like I said and as we all know, higher wattage doesn't always mean greater suction power, but its the reason why the EU are putting forward these legislations - for a greener environment. Well what, the average consumer uses their vacuums 3 to 4 time a week for half our or 45 minutes max? I don't think that will make much difference.
And yeah, "eco model" vacuums at the moment cost a considerable amount more than their non-eco counterparts. Look at the bosch cylinders and the miele line up. Costing upwards of £100 more. I'm not saying this will be a bad thing, but the politics behind it are. | ||
| Post# 275493 , Reply# 8 4/10/2014 at 12:32 (3,659 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 275511 , Reply# 9 4/10/2014 at 13:07 (3,658 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 275521 , Reply# 10 4/10/2014 at 13:17 (3,658 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 275537 , Reply# 11 4/10/2014 at 14:00 (3,658 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well.. this is what SEBO UK actually say:
"...If the proposed regulations for vacuum cleaners come into force as planned next year, they could hugely frustrate anyone trying to clean their home,” he told The Sunday Times. "Presented initially as eco-regulations, the proposals now go way beyond the simple premise of reducing the power consumption of vacuum cleaners. They embrace issues such as noise and will limit performance using unrealistic criteria." A spokesman for the European Commission said: "The whole point of the regulations is to go away from the idea that high power means better performance - which is not necessarily the case." The above statement from SEBO UK doesn't make the company look foolish IMHO, but rather allows consumers to see the ACTUAL criteria of how the EU are pushing brands to produce low watt run vacuums. There is no actual tag line here given the amount of info that SEBO have released here, JM - and they are quite correct since the EU have not released details on how the data will be collected other than a simple sand test on carpet. As you know there are several vacuums on the market that may well have excellent air flow, but that doesn't determine a good rating on performance at every corner. As you also know there are many attributes to what makes an efficient vacuum cleaner. Airflow, suction rate, sealed suction - all of those properties will be required to be better made or produced than they are currently with all of the brands entering the UK with their products. The EU release notes on the laws however don't seem to mention any of this - and in short whilst they are happy to stamp and process a law- they simply haven't tested it far enough to release the kind of info that will demonstrate what they are talking about. | ||
| Post# 275552 , Reply# 13 4/10/2014 at 16:14 (3,658 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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@ whirlpolf
Completely agree with you 100%. Thank you for explaining it in detail. I thought Germans were early all pro-EU but I guess that is just the politicians, like all of them in every EU country pretending this EU project can work. Arrgghh ! Getting back to topic, I still think this is a money making spin, very much doubt the idiots at Brussles genuinely want to save the planet or promote better technologies in vacuums. I'm glad Sebo are saying something, and to an extent, Dyson as well (without slagging off other companies but that is all James Dyson does) | ||
| Post# 275639 , Reply# 15 4/11/2014 at 10:02 (3,658 days old) by hooverkid (PA,USA) | ||
It all started when..... | ||
| Post# 276411 , Reply# 16 4/15/2014 at 18:53 (3,653 days old) by ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado) | ||
This subject always leads to a rant on my part...
Just another example of clueless government bureaucrats that think they know it all trying to run everyone's lives and businesses. I find it mind numbing how it all works... We've proven that climate change is both not warming and not caused by man. We proved this scientifically AND we have the email evidence that it was lied about and the data fixed to show what they wanted, yet they still force pointless policies and regulations on us as if it were actually happening. I can't stand these government people who truly think they are so much smarter than the average person and they know whats better for us than we do, it makes me sick! It also chaps my ass that we get these government morons that come into businesses and start telling them what to do when they have no clue about the business or the industry they're in, making all these mandate and regulations that do nothing but make work harder, make things cost more, and in some cases make the product work less effectively.
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| Post# 276749 , Reply# 17 4/17/2014 at 16:06 (3,651 days old) by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
just 
like cigarette packets have pictures of someones cancer ridden lungs these cheap [and some of the expensive ones] ear splitting power guzzling crappy vacs should have a picture of a 2 or 3 bar electric fire on them joe public would understand the implications of that much better than the sign saying x amount of watts
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| Post# 277091 , Reply# 18 4/19/2014 at 05:37 (3,650 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277092 , Reply# 19 4/19/2014 at 06:12 (3,650 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277096 , Reply# 20 4/19/2014 at 06:49 (3,650 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277101 , Reply# 21 4/19/2014 at 08:54 (3,650 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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No probs - if they were a franchise they wouldn't hold a lot of parts and machines.
Also, SEBO offer good pricing and they don't have a premium telephone number but rather, a standard national telephone number for sales advice etc. There used to be a portrait pdf download of SEBO for many years before the Internet site took off, but the company seem to have removed this. I may have a pdf copy somewhere. | ||
| Post# 277102 , Reply# 22 4/19/2014 at 08:57 (3,650 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277103 , Reply# 23 4/19/2014 at 09:03 (3,650 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277119 , Reply# 24 4/19/2014 at 11:18 (3,650 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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Thats very true.
I vaguely remember the old SEBO UK Website when I was looking at getting the SEBO Felix or deciding between the X Series and the Felix as they had the promotional videos which are not on the current website (but can be seen on youtube!). Apart from the self help ones. There is a tab under each machine that says video but there is no link! Thanks for the link to the german portrait PDF of SEBO, appreciate it sebo_fan. Probably the UK version was on the old UK website! Have you seen on John Lewis website they have the X4 Pet, X4 Excel and K1 Komfort showing again same price but with the addition of a box of free bags. The X4 Pat and X4 Excel out of stock! K1 Komfort is in stock and promotion is until end of May 2014 | ||
| Post# 277140 , Reply# 25 4/19/2014 at 13:22 (3,649 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277143 , Reply# 26 4/19/2014 at 13:36 (3,649 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277215 , Reply# 27 4/19/2014 at 17:54 (3,649 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277219 , Reply# 28 4/19/2014 at 18:15 (3,649 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277221 , Reply# 29 4/19/2014 at 18:21 (3,649 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277224 , Reply# 30 4/19/2014 at 18:28 (3,649 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277607 , Reply# 31 4/22/2014 at 13:59 (3,646 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277613 , Reply# 32 4/22/2014 at 14:57 (3,646 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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Your probably right there things change and move on. It's given me a little insight into the Brandcand what SEBO are about. They sure are and don't give toouch away which is good in some ways! They seem to do things there own way which I like and don't blame them. Probably one of the reasons I love the Brand and vacuums as they are different. Look forward to see what SEBO do next or what new machines they may bring out which I know they take time over. Least they are well engineered and built.
Thanks again for the PDF appreciate it. | ||
| Post# 277618 , Reply# 33 4/22/2014 at 15:13 (3,646 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277626 , Reply# 34 4/22/2014 at 15:46 (3,646 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277660 , Reply# 35 4/22/2014 at 17:06 (3,646 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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What amazes me about SEBO as a brand is that they are very much ahead of their time with a lot of design elements that are now becoming standard across other brands. There's still not another upright on the market that has an easy to inspect brush roll, let alone take the whole thing out when it needs cleaning. About the closest is the Vax Mach Air with its removable clips on the front floor head to get complete access to the brush roll in an instant.
SEBO of course acknowledge that they have never invented the vacuum cleaner but they have improved on the design from a commercial point of view. That commercial expertise travels to their uprights, which is their main seller. Thus, low motor wattage has always been a SEBO blue print in terms of their requirements, though I don't know what they will do with the SEBO X when the law changes to 900 watts. The only reason they brought out the X1.1 and X4 was to have an increase in suction power. However, the Airbelt seen on the C series was also SEBO's first way of absorbing scrapes on the machine itself, plus protecting the home and an additional way to diffuse exhaust air. It too had a lower rate of power when it was first launched. Only one other brand has since developed a similar air bumper - Bosch with their AirBumper - but it isn't the same since the air is diffused out the top on their cylinder vacs and not all of their ranges offer the Air Bumper. The only machine that the company have produced by demand of buyers is the K1 - it has always had either 1500, 1600 and 1800 watts until the increase to 2100 watts a couple of years ago. Im pretty sure the next model they do redesign will of course be the K1. It will probably match the similar design of the D series, but possibly with a smaller filter on board and being able to house a few more cleaning tools. | ||
| Post# 277833 , Reply# 36 4/23/2014 at 16:03 (3,645 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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They certainly are I agree with you there, SEBO certainly are ahead of their time in both design and technology in the simplicity of easy to use and maintain. Certainly isn't thats for sure, I love that you can inspect the brush roll and easily remove it. Dyson came close with their DC15, DC18,DC24 and DC25 in that you could remove the brush bar but needed a coin or tool to unlock the end caps!
They certainly have improved on the design of the vacuum cleaner. Thats what fascinates me how they use a lower watt motor but still their machines perform great, the brush roll is some of the key to that I suppose and simple air path too. Yes it will be interesting when the new EU law of 900 watts comes into play what they will do with the SEBO X. Maybe a new model or redesign to work with a 900 watt motor who knows only SEBO do! Was that increase in suction power to compete with others on the market, or was it so the turbo head worked on the hose? I think the Airbelt is a great idea, how low was the wattage on the C series when it first came out? Thats interesting to know about the K1, was that because the buyers wanted a compact light machine compared to the C series? Interesting you say that about the K1 in that it could be the next model they redesign, a mini version of the D series that be interesting to see. Do you not think they will redesign the X series or the Felix at some point? Or update them both? | ||
| Post# 277835 , Reply# 37 4/23/2014 at 16:05 (3,645 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277848 , Reply# 38 4/23/2014 at 16:49 (3,645 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277850 , Reply# 40 4/23/2014 at 16:50 (3,645 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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The C series - I think - had 1500 watts when it was first launched.
The K series was produced for buyers looking for a smaller cylinder vac - the C series was SEBO's larger series. The X1 got a stepped motor to compensate for other power tools like the stair cleaning turbo brush plus I think SEBO wanted to raise the power a little for other markets. Basically SEBO do tend to cater for what their owners want, or rather move on improvements suggested. Not all of them though - I'd still like to see the SEBO X have a variable slider suction control like the Felix plus brush roll on/off function. | ||
| Post# 277859 , Reply# 41 4/23/2014 at 17:00 (3,645 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277860 , Reply# 42 4/23/2014 at 17:05 (3,645 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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I thought the motor wattage was 1600w maximum this year then 900w maximum in 2017? | ||
| Post# 277869 , Reply# 43 4/23/2014 at 17:18 (3,645 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277875 , Reply# 44 4/23/2014 at 18:14 (3,645 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 277877 , Reply# 45 4/23/2014 at 18:35 (3,645 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton) | ||
I know That Samsung Has invented a 900 W motor for the Samsung motion Sync Is a digital motor the 10 year motor warranty
CLICK HERE TO GO TO dys0nb0y's LINK | ||
| Post# 277901 , Reply# 46 4/24/2014 at 04:42 (3,645 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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I always wondered how you used the hose
It's quite simple, really. The hose stores inside the wand, so when you remove the wand from the holder, the hose extends.
The user has the choice of using either the wand or just the hose. The hose comes out by pressing a button on the wand to release it. I'll try and get some pics or a video to demonstrate for you, Beckham. Edit: found a pic online that might help 
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| Post# 277902 , Reply# 47 4/24/2014 at 04:49 (3,645 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277903 , Reply# 48 4/24/2014 at 04:50 (3,645 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277912 , Reply# 50 4/24/2014 at 06:23 (3,645 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 277916 , Reply# 51 4/24/2014 at 06:28 (3,645 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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It's OK, your forgiven :) The Upholstery Tool is a favourite of mine too, due to the strip of brushes. The Crevice Tool is nice too, nice & long :D | ||
| Post# 277924 , Reply# 52 4/24/2014 at 08:16 (3,645 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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Sebo definitely are the most advanced I think in the vacuum game. Their vacuums are such good quality and well designed. Simple things like having the cord coming out of the handle, which means being able to store is easily without bending down, the on/off switch and variable suction at the handle as well, and of course the swivel steering which came out before dysons ball. Sebo's system which nearly all other vacuum makers other than dyson have copied (not only because dyson patented their, but because the dyson ball is needlessly complex)
It will certainly be interesting to see what new models sebo bring out to conform to the new legislations. As much as I don't agree with them, simply because of the politics behind it, it will be interesting to see how they will get around the suction challenge (manufacture have done it before). I'd imagine it would be much more difficult for vacuum makers to make bagless vacuums sub 900's watts with more or less the same suction as todays bagless, with their cyclones and silly designs which drain suction power. | ||
| Post# 277937 , Reply# 53 4/24/2014 at 08:42 (3,645 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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I think companies like Sebo, Miele, Numatic and Dyson will be just fine. Reports are coming in regarding the new Numatic cleaners pulling in plenty of suction to effectively clean and Dyson are really pioneering the digital motor. I got to use one of the 1050w Ball cylinders recently and, my opinions about Dyson aside, the suction is fantastic. Miele have been 1200w around the rest of the world for years.
I think the most interesting changes will come from TTI companies like Hoover and Vax. They've both been using cheap, excessively powerful motors in their machines for a long time now, which has been causing them to overheat and burn out more easilly than a lot of other brands. So I think the changes to their cleaners are welcome more so than with other brands. | ||
| Post# 277989 , Reply# 54 4/24/2014 at 11:20 (3,645 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well the Vax Mach Air already has 1200 watts, Vax and TTI could just use the same motor in all of their vacs but they'd have to change the filter design and I don't think it would be that expensive for them to change to NLOS filters in everything - when you consider that the Vax Mach Air Reach model is selling now for £100 to £120 online at a lot of franchises, the price drops are amazing value but also proof that it can be done.
Interestingly SEBO's K1 with its new 700 watt motor seems to have the same rate of airflow to SEBO's K1 with 1800 watts. It too comes with the Wessel Werk Eco floor head. Spec list translated from SEBO Poland. 
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| Post# 278059 , Reply# 55 4/24/2014 at 15:43 (3,644 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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I hope SEBO bring out the D2 Eco Plus to the UK. Interesting to see the K1 with the 700 watt motor has the same airflow as the K1 with 1800 watt motor. Must be a new motor design be interesting to see how they perform.
All though X series pics Chris is making me want my X series sooner!! Be interesting to see if others will follow Dyson in using digital motors well a form of them in the future! | ||
| Post# 278065 , Reply# 56 4/24/2014 at 16:03 (3,644 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 278066 , Reply# 57 4/24/2014 at 16:22 (3,644 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 278067 , Reply# 58 4/24/2014 at 16:22 (3,644 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 278071 , Reply# 59 4/24/2014 at 16:34 (3,644 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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Your not kidding Chris I about fell of my chair when I read SEBO response with the prices. Thanks for the tip Chris forgot about the Co-Op. Just need to make up my mind now been pondering over the X1.1 but do like the idea of the X4 version too!!
Here is SEBO's prices: X1.1 is £239.95 X4 White is £259.95 X4 Extra is £279.95 X5 Extra is £309.95 X4 Pet is £309.95 That's true sebo_fan if the DDM doesn't last it would compromise SEBO's reliability of their machines which they are known for. | ||
| Post# 278186 , Reply# 60 4/25/2014 at 15:59 (3,643 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well those are the list prices that SEBO charge for. Of course they are going to be more expensive direct from the brand rather than franchise.
Take Hoover for example - their new "Unplugged" 30V-60 minute run time cordless stick vac from Hoover UK costs £249-99 direct. However Argos UK are selling the same model for £199 when it was previously £249-99 and Amazon UK have it for £179-99 | ||
| Post# 278200 , Reply# 61 4/25/2014 at 17:00 (3,643 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 278204 , Reply# 62 4/25/2014 at 17:11 (3,643 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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These new EU legislations will probably provoke manufacturers to think outside of the box. It's only just occurred to me but it appears that wireless, rechargeable vacuums have started to take off during the last 2 years. The GTECH air ram springs to mind. A relative has one and they are very happy with it and it really does shift the dirt from the carpet. It has the stiffest bristles on any brush bar I have come across but according to dyson, only has 4 air watts of suction at the head, but it seems to give good results. I do think though it will be some time before you will be able to pick up your typical vax or Bissell re-chargeable vacuums and expect the same cleaning power as todays mains powered upright, but the technology is there and they are getting more powerful as time goes on. Lithium air battery technology for fast charging and longevity and so on.
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| Post# 278205 , Reply# 63 4/25/2014 at 17:13 (3,643 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Yes but it is also just more plastic to dump - only a few brands like Gtech are selling battery replacements for the cordless sweepers - Hoover and AEG for example currently don't sell a replaceable battery on board of their hand helds or cordless stick vacs that prevent quicker land fill when the power eventually weakens.
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