Thread Number: 24118
Vacuums that make you satisfied
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Post# 269707   2/28/2014 at 14:14 (3,681 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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What vacuum do you consider to be you most satisfying to use in terms of making you feel like you have done a thorough job? By this I mean how man pushes and pulls per path does it take for you to think that area is clean and move on ?

Personally, I would say my felix is the one that does this for me. The way it stick down on the carpet, moves forward on its own and vibrates the floor, I only go over the same path twice probably.


Post# 269717 , Reply# 1   2/28/2014 at 14:48 (3,681 days old) by citroenbx (england)        
dyson

citroenbx's profile picture
dyson dc04 blue

Post# 269721 , Reply# 2   2/28/2014 at 15:11 (3,681 days old) by TASE (Colorado)        

tase's profile picture
For me, it's probably my Kirby Heritage.

It's a damn beautiful vacuum with a damn good clean. The way it glides across the carpet is great.


Post# 269736 , Reply# 3   2/28/2014 at 17:08 (3,681 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
my concept 1 for carpet, silverado for other uses

Post# 269742 , Reply# 4   2/28/2014 at 17:55 (3,681 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Probably when on a Cylinder Vacuum when the head sticks to the carpet, otherwise if it's easy to push then it dosen't feel it's doing the job properly.

Post# 269768 , Reply# 5   2/28/2014 at 21:22 (3,681 days old) by DC (Arizona, USA)        

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My Miele S7 does its job really well in one pass. It has REALLY fast airflow, and powerful agitation from its brush to clean thoroughly. I know it deep cleans considering its brush roll beats really well, but it doesn't seem to groom my carpet as nice as my older Dirt Devil. I think it's because the chevron brush roll with its semi-stiff bristles just doesn't groom as well as a stiffer non-chevron brush roll you would find on most other vacs. However, if it beats carpet enough to make crumbs shake all over the floor, and has the suction to make the crumbs move towards the power head, it's one hell of a deep cleaner for all carpets!

Post# 269784 , Reply# 6   3/1/2014 at 01:38 (3,681 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Kirby and metal Royal for upright,NSS,Sebo,Meile,Nilfisk for canister.

Post# 269788 , Reply# 7   3/1/2014 at 04:04 (3,681 days old) by KellyW92 ()        
Montreal Aerus Vacuum

For me, it's probably my Montreal Aerus Vacuum. It's a damn beautiful vacuum with a damn good clean. The way it glides across the carpet is great.

Post# 269789 , Reply# 8   3/1/2014 at 04:46 (3,680 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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I like the Felix too, but I also like the X series, so BOTH when it comes to an upright.

Miele or SEBO for cylinders.



Post# 269790 , Reply# 9   3/1/2014 at 04:53 (3,680 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Dyson DC08 with contact head fitted is an unbeatable floor tool for suction sealing!
Dyson DC07 Origin with seals in the soleplate are my favourites


Post# 269819 , Reply# 10   3/1/2014 at 09:37 (3,680 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

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I've owned many vacuums, but nothing comes close to my Kirby Sentria when it comes to cleaning ability. The Sentria's awesome airflow and agitation is what does the trick. The new stiffer brushroll does an excellent job of grooming my medium pile plush carpet as well.


Post# 269829 , Reply# 11   3/1/2014 at 10:08 (3,680 days old) by KirbysNphones ()        

Filter Queen! I have mostly hard floors, so it does fine by my standards. For carpet, one of my Kirbys or Royals.

Post# 269864 , Reply# 12   3/1/2014 at 16:21 (3,680 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

For me, the most satisfying one-pass performance comes from either my Filter Queen with upgraded (EBK360) power nozzle, or from my franken-Royal (880 with a 671 motor). Before the Royal wound up frankensteined, though, I think my Kirby Heritage II Legend did a better job.

Post# 270040 , Reply# 13   3/3/2014 at 02:50 (3,679 days old) by kenkart ()        
Model G

Electrolux..Or my 801 Royal.

Post# 270043 , Reply# 14   3/3/2014 at 05:58 (3,678 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Turbopower 1, Junior, Senior.

Post# 270093 , Reply# 15   3/3/2014 at 13:55 (3,678 days old) by citroenbx (england)        
dyson dc01 1998

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.

Post# 270129 , Reply# 16   3/3/2014 at 18:13 (3,678 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Why is that satisfying to use? It doesn't do anything!



Post# 270174 , Reply# 17   3/4/2014 at 01:04 (3,678 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

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I have a few favorites!! Love my old classics but also the more modern PowerMax style

Post# 270175 , Reply# 18   3/4/2014 at 03:11 (3,678 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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My SEBO Felix Classic does an excellent job, picks up pet hair in one pass and grooms the carpet. You can always tell when I've use it the carpet looks clean and groomed. Very versatile too. Properly one of the best vacuums I've owned too. Followed by my Miele S7.

Post# 270197 , Reply# 19   3/4/2014 at 07:31 (3,677 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Oh no, come on Alex, don't start!

Id sooner be happier to push a Dyson DC01 along a floor than a "certain amount of certain uprights," simply because being 6ft I wouldn't have to stoop and get neck pain.

The question on this forum is simple - it isn't asking you to question other members on why a certain model should be satisfying or not!


Post# 270199 , Reply# 20   3/4/2014 at 07:47 (3,677 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Oh no, come on Alex, don't start!

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Telling Alex not to start is like telling Imeleda Marcos to come out of Saxone...

Post# 270206 , Reply# 21   3/4/2014 at 08:51 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Quite true Chris although I do like a tall vacuum, what about a 1977 Hoover Senior Ranger, ehh, Ryan?


Post# 270207 , Reply# 22   3/4/2014 at 08:56 (3,677 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
what about a 1977 Hoover Senior Ranger

turbo500's profile picture
*snigger*....

meanwhile, in the north of Scotland, Jamie's ears have just picked up a whisper of a Hoover Senior Ranger.


Post# 270208 , Reply# 23   3/4/2014 at 08:57 (3,677 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Dont like the Ranger - my parents had one and the baby sitter used to chase me with it - as a result I never liked the design. Much prefer the Senior underneath it! Also never liked the Hoover handle on the Senior Ranger - something about it is quite uncomfortable compared to the original Senior.

However times move on. For me, a satisfying vacuum should be quick at what it does and the SEBOs are perfect in this area with Miele, playing second.


Post# 270213 , Reply# 24   3/4/2014 at 10:48 (3,677 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Alex...

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We all know, Alex dear, that a cylinder picks up more than an upright and removes more deep-down grit, don't we? I can see the grit in your carpets from here ;).

Post# 270214 , Reply# 25   3/4/2014 at 11:05 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        
Dont like the Ranger

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Ryan it appears one can never be pleased.

Post# 270216 , Reply# 26   3/4/2014 at 11:09 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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on. For me, a satisfying vacuum should be quick at what it does and the SEBOs

You do shock Ryan...How could I of guessed?


Post# 270217 , Reply# 27   3/4/2014 at 11:11 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Alex dear, that a cylinder picks up more than an upright and removes more deep-down grit, don't we? I can see the grit in your carpets from here ;). 

As he bangs his head against a wall!!


Post# 270224 , Reply# 28   3/4/2014 at 13:14 (3,677 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Rather than try and be facetious, Alex - either state what you find satisfying yourself and move on or don't contribute to this original post's question.



Post# 270225 , Reply# 29   3/4/2014 at 13:25 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I did "contribute" I said a Hoover Senior, Junior or Turbopower 1/Turbomaster also the Panasonic 40 series and Elite/Turbolite

Post# 270227 , Reply# 30   3/4/2014 at 13:26 (3,677 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
A vacuum being 'satisfying to use', to me would be..

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Easy to get out, easy to manuver, easy to hold, easy to empty and/or attach tools (attachments). AND, when you're done, you can see a beautifully cleaned carpet...proving your efforts were not wasted.
For ME, everytime I get a HOOVER out, plug it in, turn it on, i KNOW I'll hear that "hum". I KNOW I'll see those tracks, i KNOW when I'm finished, I'll once more have a nice clean home with proper lines on my carpets.
That's "MY" definition of satisfaction.


Post# 270233 , Reply# 31   3/4/2014 at 14:05 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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"everytime I get a HOOVER out, plug it in, turn it on, i KNOW I'll hear that "hum". I KNOW I'll see those tracks, i KNOW when I'm finished, I'll once more have a nice clean home with proper lines on my carpets."

At least someone agrees with me. Lol. 


Post# 270235 , Reply# 32   3/4/2014 at 14:12 (3,677 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Yes Alex but in reply 16 you asked why a Dyson should be satisfying to use?

Or have you ignored this action completely?


Post# 270239 , Reply# 33   3/4/2014 at 14:33 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Well why is it satisfying? It has an uncomfortable handle, has week suction and just skims the carpet? Why on EARTH would you be satisfied with that.

Post# 270251 , Reply# 34   3/4/2014 at 15:59 (3,677 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Imeleda Marcos and Saxone

Ah Turbo, I see you share a love of one of the nations favourite comediennes too.


Post# 270252 , Reply# 35   3/4/2014 at 16:14 (3,677 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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John, I am in complete agreement.  Hear hear.


Post# 270255 , Reply# 36   3/4/2014 at 16:25 (3,677 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
I was

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counting on that. :))

Post# 270257 , Reply# 37   3/4/2014 at 17:16 (3,677 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Yet again Thats your opinion, of which this post does not ASK you to qualify a statement.

And yet again you feel as if you are right and everyone else is wrong.



Post# 270258 , Reply# 38   3/4/2014 at 17:38 (3,677 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I appreciate your analysis

Post# 270354 , Reply# 39   3/5/2014 at 14:22 (3,676 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

I find the DC01 satisfying to use because it has a bright yellow insert which means it's easy and nice to see the fluff ball spinning around :) They always pick up something, Run a vacuum over a carpet, then go over it with a DC01
Gotcha!


Post# 270444 , Reply# 40   3/6/2014 at 02:11 (3,676 days old) by kenkart ()        
You all can..

Use all that new stuff from now until Jesus comes back, and I can still pull dirt behind you with my old 150 Hoover from 1936!!! LOL!!I just had to be a little bit of a smart !@#!LOL

Post# 270447 , Reply# 41   3/6/2014 at 02:37 (3,676 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I agree with KenKart!!

Post# 270448 , Reply# 42   3/6/2014 at 02:48 (3,676 days old) by kenkart ()        
Really..

it makes me happy and content to use something that has stood the test of time, and was made right here in the good old days when quality reigned, I dare say very few vacuums built today will be around 50 or 75 years from now!

Post# 270450 , Reply# 43   3/6/2014 at 02:49 (3,676 days old) by kenkart ()        
And I might say also!

Some VERY fine cleaners have been built in Europe years ago too!

Post# 270451 , Reply# 44   3/6/2014 at 02:53 (3,676 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Most of the vacuums I use are of the "old school" type--Kirbys,Royals,Hoover Convertibles,Saniaires,etc.The NSS M1 is an "old school" canister!And yes they can last 50 years easily-even under heavy commercial use!

Post# 270453 , Reply# 45   3/6/2014 at 03:28 (3,676 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Run a vacuum over a carpet, then go over it with a DC01

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Run a DC01 over the carpet and then go over it with ANY OTHER bagged upright and you'll see what it's leaving behind. Even being completely impartial for a moment, the DC01 and DC03 really were pathetic excuses for an upright vacuum.
Gotcha!


Post# 270456 , Reply# 46   3/6/2014 at 06:27 (3,675 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

"Fluffball spinning in the container"yes-thats carpet fluff the Dyson brushroll is tearing from your carpet!Some Dyson rolls are HARD on carpets!

Post# 270457 , Reply# 47   3/6/2014 at 07:20 (3,675 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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I think we all know that most vacuums today are never as well built as the old ones. Even today, things like microwave ovens, shavers, mobile phones, hand mixers and even toasters aren't as well built as they used to be - but we didn't have as cheap manufacture as we do now.

Even when Hoover brought out their plastic hard box uprights they made claims that they were lighter to push/lift because of the manufacture and trying to steer the buyers away from "the last of the classic uprights."

But then when you look back, homes in general didn't have half of the expensive premium floor coverings available now, either, or for that matter laminate flooring - vinyl or lino existed a lot as it is cheap covering (and still is) but it isn't going to suit everyone nowadays.

Then there's the air quality and what contributes to dust in the home.

I think today's vacuum cleaner has a lot more to pick up than what the 1970's homes had.




Post# 270462 , Reply# 48   3/6/2014 at 08:55 (3,675 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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Agree pretty much, but a lot of our 70s homes were very heavy with drapes, big over stuffed furniture and that damn thick dense shag carpet was all over, get out the rakes! Yes we had them.Plus back then the climate control and window seals were not as good. No need I suppose to mention the ash trays in every room.

Post# 270480 , Reply# 49   3/6/2014 at 12:32 (3,675 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Yes, true but then children were playing outside, climbing trees and not born with half the allergies they have today.

Out of interest one of my old school friends has a certain bagless vacuum and constantly wraps her kids in cotton wool in terms of "making her own soap" etc and approaching everything from an Organic slant. Sadly she has fallen prey to the organic world of over pricing everything. Despite the onus of making everything in terms of bath oils, shampoos etc for her and her family, they still suffer from itchy eyes, dust allergies and rashes.

When questioned what she has in terms of a vacuum cleaner, it is a TOL model she has had for three years and when I asked her when the last time she cleaned out the on board filter, I got a blank look!

I can't speak for the U.S obviously but UK curtains and furnishings in the 1970s were far better built and far more durable. There's a lesson learnt there - no wonder so many people in the UK are sourcing old materials and vintage stuff again.


Post# 270481 , Reply# 50   3/6/2014 at 12:42 (3,675 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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I have that same type of friend! Mutant organic, ect.She has a popular ball model that she never cleans out! Plus huge suv that burns oil and lots of recreation vehicles, I have to wonder what she/ they think those run on?

Post# 270499 , Reply# 51   3/6/2014 at 15:59 (3,675 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

The Dyson Dual cyclone vacuums did not have aggressive and extremely stiff bristles, it's a dust ball spinning in the bin BTw :)
Run a Dc01 over the carpet after any bagged vac, then see wat it leaves behind :)
Gotcha!


Post# 270510 , Reply# 52   3/6/2014 at 18:30 (3,675 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Tayyab... you need to meet HOOVER 70s, 80's and 90's then use a DC01...after using a Hoover, the DC01 will be like pushing around a baby walker.

Post# 270554 , Reply# 53   3/7/2014 at 02:58 (3,675 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Tayyab, you've missed the point completely.

ALL vacuums leave dust behind and whichever vacuum goes second is likely to still pick something up. It's a very old marketing technique. But the DC01 and DC03 both have a pretty pathetic brushroll and very low suction, it's common sense that a cleaner with a better brushroll (longer, stiffer bristles to get deeper into the carpet pile and possibly beater bars) and more suction power will pick up more.


Post# 270557 , Reply# 54   3/7/2014 at 06:47 (3,674 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The thing to remember is, the DC01 was really the first proper Dyson after that pink thing in Japan. It wasn't supposed to be the "best vacuum on the market" but rather a showcase in what Dyson's ideas were. Thus, the model wasn't beset with the "best of the design functions" that other brands already occupied.

I was looking at one of my old Hoover brochures yesterday and what is remarkable about the Hoover Turbopower is that the models that had the tools on board failed to mimic the same ones that were sold in the tool kit - i.e twist to ratchet-lock and adopt friction fit instead. Obviously good for Hoover to sell a box alongside for models that didn't have the on board tools - but even at that, the tools were better than those offered by Dyson - but that can be forgiven since the DC01 was the first of many Dysons to come.

The thing that I didn't like about the DC01 when we initially got one was the fact that it failed to clean flat to the floor and eventually managed to turn our wool carpet into a lot of mess because of the abrasive way the brush roll cleaned the pile.

Had Dyson actually looked at the Hoover Junior that he moaned about losing suction because he was too lazy to buy dust bags, he'd have used the same kind of brush roll and far more inspiration rather than design something completely different.

He could have used any bagged vacuum to highlight bag inefficiency.



Post# 270566 , Reply# 55   3/7/2014 at 10:43 (3,674 days old) by adambomb (Undisclosed )        

My 2012 Kirby Sentria II

Post# 270581 , Reply# 56   3/7/2014 at 14:35 (3,674 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        
You know what

Actually, come to think of it, the Bissell Easy Vac I had for a short while was an OK vac and I wondered why it picked up more than my DC25 Animal!
Dyson brushbars are round things with bristles, in comparison to the Bissell which was like a beater bar!
Give me a Werthiem or Hoover any day! Plus the DC65 Dyson looks like it has a beater bar! :D
Got me(!)


Post# 270588 , Reply# 57   3/7/2014 at 15:40 (3,674 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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The DC65 doesn't look like it has a beater bar, all Dyson has done is removed the 2 different rows of bristles (which where 2 different lengths, as per the DC41) and added one row that is spiralled around the brush bar more (DC40 only has one row) on a raised bed. Then increased the motor via the electronic control board to use 25% more power which they say drives the bristles deeper to release more dirt! The head from the side looks smaller and the bristles are stubby, probably very stiff too!

Post# 270598 , Reply# 58   3/7/2014 at 16:35 (3,674 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Is the DC40 brush the same stiffness as a DC41 brushbar? the DC41 I had for a week was CRAP!!!!!!!!!!

Post# 270599 , Reply# 59   3/7/2014 at 16:41 (3,674 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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I'm not sure from what I remember when I went to see these vacuums cleaners when Dyson launched them a few years ago they didn't seems the same stiffness. I haven't bothered to look at them since when I see them in any electrical shop.

Post# 270618 , Reply# 60   3/7/2014 at 19:33 (3,674 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Despite me sounding incredibly hypocritical, Tayyab, do you ever talk about anything other than Dyson? Or are you knowledgeable about anything other than Dyson?

My intention is not to offend you or be rude but just curious because that is all you ever talk about.


Post# 270621 , Reply# 61   3/7/2014 at 19:54 (3,674 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        

Alex, I have an interest in the brand mainly and I do like other vacs too such as Numatic but am not as into them as Dyson. Yes we both grw up with them but you dont like them as much as I do but you loove Hoover ;)

Post# 270682 , Reply# 62   3/8/2014 at 09:48 (3,673 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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I have to disagree with Tayyab majorly. The DC40 and DC41 are 2 of the best Dyson's I've ever used. The build quality is quite poor, but performance was very good and the brushroll really did a great job. Much better than anything else they've done since the DC04, performance wise.

Post# 270691 , Reply# 63   3/8/2014 at 11:00 (3,673 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Dont worry about it Tayyab, Alex doesn't read what others say or read their profiles. Clearly when you've stated what you have, you'd have thought some would know what brands you have and what you're into.



Post# 270693 , Reply# 64   3/8/2014 at 11:04 (3,673 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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Ryan I might just have to clip you round the 'earole'

Post# 270695 , Reply# 65   3/8/2014 at 11:06 (3,673 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Not before I boot you into the next planet, dearest.



Post# 270702 , Reply# 66   3/8/2014 at 11:19 (3,673 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

alexhoovers94's profile picture
Sounds very thrilling I will just get my bungee cord.

Post# 270717 , Reply# 67   3/8/2014 at 12:03 (3,673 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        
For me - its a Sebo!

Have to say that I've been very satisfied with my new Sebo K3 Vulcano - its a really good quality little vac, and the best aspect of it is the lightweight wand and handle power slider. Its really easy to use with the turbo brush on the end, and so far, I'd give it 10/10. A little old fashioned now I know, and the colour wont appeal to all, but I really love it, and its all I am using at present as a daily driver.

Sebo rocks!


Post# 270719 , Reply# 68   3/8/2014 at 12:10 (3,673 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I don't mind the K series actually. They are quite lovely.


Post# 270723 , Reply# 69   3/8/2014 at 12:21 (3,673 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

When you think that the full size turbo brush on the K series is the same as Dyson used to use on the DC02, its still better than most Dyson turbo brushes today, and much quieter. The only drawback with it is that you cant open it up without a screwdriver. It seems to agitate the carpet very well and bring up the pile, which many cheaper turbo brushes don't (like the cheapo Vax ones)


Post# 270779 , Reply# 70   3/8/2014 at 19:36 (3,673 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well, ironically enough Vax did use the same ones that SEBO now supply for the K and D. But then Vax changed them again to cheaper plastics and not as well sealed.

SEBO have their eye on a new one that has appeared on the market though, and from what I know, they are trying to source it for future models.


Post# 270819 , Reply# 71   3/9/2014 at 06:19 (3,672 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

The Turbo Tool seen in Reply #67 was the one I got with the Swan 'Petmaster' Cylinder Vacuum I had for a few days. It would have been good if there was enough suction to turn it.

Post# 270833 , Reply# 72   3/9/2014 at 11:26 (3,672 days old) by rainbowvacfane2 (tracy ca)        
for me

rainbowvacfane2's profile picture
the vacuum that perfroms the best is my sanitaire sc886 it takes ussually take 2 pass thanks to it beater bars

Post# 270851 , Reply# 73   3/9/2014 at 12:35 (3,672 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

I keep hoping I'll luck upon a good deal on a Sebo K3 with an electric PN. I really rather like them. The price is a little steep (in the US, anyway. Even accounting for the rather strong Euro and Pound, high-quality vacuums seem to be cheaper in the EU and UK), but not bad at all for what you get.

Post# 270852 , Reply# 74   3/9/2014 at 12:51 (3,672 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Yes but the U.S get the cream of the crop where dirty fan uprights are concerned, not least those Aerus cylinder/canister vacs that we also don't benefit from.

Post# 270882 , Reply# 75   3/9/2014 at 16:20 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Yes they do - they also get many power nozzle Miele's that we cant get here too. Not to mention much cheaper prices on Kirbys and many Tacony brands like Riccar that we cant get in the UK either.

Apart from Miele and Sebo, there aint much decent quality stuff we can get in the UK any more, as most of the rest like Hoover and Vax is all made in China now, with Dyson cheaply made in Malaysia, and the quality control (or lack of it) especially in Vax models is ever apparent.


Post# 270884 , Reply# 76   3/9/2014 at 16:28 (3,672 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The company that springs to mind in all of this that should be doing a LOT better is Electrolux. With worldwide sales being at the highest, you'd think they would have developed more vacuums rather than pass off TOL to AEG and budget line to Zanussi.

I know some members won't like it if I compare appliance brands to car brands, but tough toffee - Auto Express, a leading car magazine in the UK are reporting next week on how big "Skoda," have got - owned by VW - it is a classic tale of a brand who were once the brunt of many jokes and under the VW brand have made huge profits for most of the UK. It seems Skoda are now a leading car brand, and all because most of their models offer far better value for money under VW quality control.

Electrolux should be like VW. They have so many sub-brands, that there is NO EXCUSE to have leading models and leading brand names. But sadly, Electrolux in my opinion has fallen prey to producing far too many vacuums in China and not making enough of the bagged uprights and cylinder vacs that they used to be known for.


Post# 270892 , Reply# 77   3/9/2014 at 16:38 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Very true Nar - and look at Samsung now - they used to be a budget cheap and cheerful brand, but look at how big they have become now, and also notice how much more expensive Samsung products are.

Too many Large corporations are swallowing up smaller companies, and then moving production to China.

Take Morphy Richards, now owned by Glen Dimplex, Russell Hobbs is now owned by DeLonghi, Hoover now owned by Candy, Vax by TTI, and they are all mainly made in China, where they used to be made in the UK, but not sure about Morphy Richards, as Glen Dimplex (who also own LEC and other old UK brands) is an Irish firm.

 

Also, Panasonic now make most stuff in China too. I was hard pressed to find a new microwave the other day that wasn't made in China, even Sharp are now made in China. Its quite a shock to the system. I have kept my old 2006 LG Wavedom and will get a new grill element for it, as nothing now is as well made as it was.


Post# 270896 , Reply# 78   3/9/2014 at 17:03 (3,672 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

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The quality of Samsung products has decreased rapidly during the last 4 or 5 years. Their stuff looks swish and fancy with shiny glossy plastic phones and TV's but they are cheaply made, mass market appeal which have a lot of gadgets and so on. I use a Nokia windows phone but anyways, that besides the point.

I am equally unimpressed with this made in china fad, but I am glad to see it is going, slowly. Because labour rates out there are rising so fast, and environmentalist are becoming nosier amid chinas pollution problem, it is becoming as expensive, if not more to manufacture things out there, not to mention quality problems and shipping costs. Probably 80% of products made in china are not made by the manufacture who stamp their label on it. It wouldn't be as bad if they were hoover factories for hoover, or vax factories for vax. That way some sort of quality could be assured.

Im part German and spend a quite a bit of time over there for various reasons and sebo, like miele, manufacture nearly all their components in house. Their motors I think are sourced in, but they are made within Europe, or Germany.

Unfortunately, german products are the only ones which are still properly built, long lasting high quality products, mainly because manufacturing is still done their, although some companies like bosch have moved elsewhere. Probably helps as well that companies like sebo and karcher as private companies. Thing made in Britain and the US were equally as good. I hope manufacturing for domestic appliances does come back home.


Post# 270897 , Reply# 79   3/9/2014 at 17:05 (3,672 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Is a vacuum or appliance made anywhere in Europe good quality?

Post# 270905 , Reply# 80   3/9/2014 at 17:32 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Most vacs that are made in Europe are made in Germany. I think Poland produces more now but cant be sure on that.

What I can be sure on is that having bought a fair few Chinese built vacs I have been annoyed about how bad the quality control is, especially with Vax machines. Silly things like hoses coming away from their sockets due to bad glue being used, and items not working out of the box. You only need to read customer reviews on these products to see that Chinese built stuff is just not up to the level that German built stuff is.

Companies move production to China to make it cheaper to buy, but that comes at another cost - reliability. China now produces so much its hard to keep up with who now has moved production there. Companies like Panasonic and Sharp, who used to make their products in Japan and the UK, now make them in China and Thailand, and even Russell Hobbs has been taken over by Delonghi, and now all production is in China.

All I can say is thank God for Germany - they still produce goods of reasonable quality, and its not necessarily unaffordable either, with many Dysons costing more than Miele vacs.


Post# 270914 , Reply# 81   3/9/2014 at 18:03 (3,672 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

I know the Hotpoint Vacuums are made in Poland.

Post# 270917 , Reply# 82   3/9/2014 at 18:20 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Just looked at my Kitchen Appliances - My Hotpoint FFA97G Fridge freezer bought 2006 made in UK! Hotpoint CTD80G tumble drier also 2006 made in UK, Bosch exxel dishwasher (2006) made in Germany, LG WM14225FD washer (2006) made in Korea, and my Microwave, a LG MC8483NL also 2006 made in Korea. How times have changed in the last 8 years. I don't think Hotpoint make anything in the UK now do they? as they are owned by Indesit. (My appliances are all 2006 as that was when I did my kitchen up)

LG don't seem to be making microwaves any more, and many Bosch appliances are now not made in Germany.


Post# 270919 , Reply# 83   3/9/2014 at 18:27 (3,672 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Aren't Hotpoint Machines made in Italy in the Merloni Factory?

Post# 270923 , Reply# 84   3/9/2014 at 18:43 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

That's what I feared, made in Italy, but not as bad as made in China. I know Hotpoint machines are not as good as they used to be, their washers always suffered failed drum bearings, or control board faults since Indesit took them over, and Indesit machines themselves are pretty cack and unreliable - all built to a price, not a level of high quality. If you want a quality machine then its gonna be a Miele, and its gonna cost you 3 times more than an average Indesit or Hotpoint. The problem with buying a Miele machine is that if it breaks down outside the warranty it is eye-wateringly expensive to get repaired.


Post# 270926 , Reply# 85   3/9/2014 at 18:56 (3,672 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Yes but at least Hotpoint & Indesit Washing Machines don't have exploding drums!

Post# 270930 , Reply# 86   3/9/2014 at 19:11 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Oh but they do! at least Indesit ones do anyhow. Search YouTube for them and you will find evidence of Indesit models where the drum has de-seamed itself on a 1600spin, and subsequently destroyed the machine and the worktop over it. Candy models were the worst culprits for this though, and its usually the fact that the cheap quality manufacture of the drums cant withstand the centrifugal forces at play when they have to spin at 1600rpm with an unbalanced load. I only usually use 1000Rpm on my LG machine to help prolong the life of the drum spider and bearings, as many machines just cant take the higher spin speeds they get equipped with.

 

 

Anyhow - better stop talking about washers - we are wandering off the point of the thread lol


Post# 270936 , Reply# 87   3/9/2014 at 19:25 (3,672 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

OK then...My new vacuum should be arriving soon!

Post# 270946 , Reply# 88   3/9/2014 at 19:53 (3,672 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Hotpoint & UK

I thought the tumble-dryers were still UK made, with Merloni having acquired the Creda plant and all that went with it. If they are no longer UK made, this is certainly a fairly recent change of events. As soon as Merloni acquired the Hotpoint/Creda/Cannon group, many "Creda" dryers were branded as Indesit, I think possibly the first time ever that Indesit had owned a tumble-dryer which had been produced in-house.

Post# 270952 , Reply# 89   3/9/2014 at 19:59 (3,672 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

From the Indesit website:

"washing and drying

Indesit Company’s plants produce over five million units every year, all designed to meet consumer needs, safeguard the environment and comply with user safety standards. Its development of appliances that ensure optimum performance with minimum expenditure of energy, water and time, and also offer an impressive array of garment care options, enables the Company to maintain its outright leadership in the washing sector in Europe: every year, out of every 100 washing machines and dryers sold in Europe, 20 are Indesit Company’s. Two of the four washing product plants are in Italy, in Comunanza (Ascoli Piceno) and Teverola (Caserta), the other two being in Radomsko (Poland) and Lipetsk (Russia).
All of Indesit Company’s dryer production is concentrated in Yate (UK), while dishwashers are made in Radomsko (Poland)."

As a brand, I read that the name Creda is part of the Glen-Dimplex ever-expanding portfolio.


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Post# 270954 , Reply# 90   3/9/2014 at 20:09 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Good info Benny, at least Indesit are keeping production in Europe, rather than China. Regarding Glen Dimplex - they are an Irish company, who started out producing heaters, but as you say, they have taken over a fair few companies, including Creda, Lec and Morphy Richards, but I don't know where they manufacture them.



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Post# 270955 , Reply# 91   3/9/2014 at 20:11 (3,672 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

They manufacturer from all over and they source goods from others too. Although Beko produce a vast range of products under their own name, a good deal of their production is for others, including, I believe, some Glen-Dimplex owned brands.

Post# 270958 , Reply# 92   3/9/2014 at 20:22 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Arent Beko made in Turkey?

 

I know Morphy Richards use other companies products - they have the Lift away vacuum cleaner in their name, which is really a Shark product.

I would be interested to know who makes Morphy RIchards microwaves and where they are made, as I was trying to find a new freestanding combination microwave that isn't made in China, and not being very successful


Post# 270961 , Reply# 93   3/9/2014 at 20:34 (3,672 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

Beko were always Turkish, yes, I have heard nothing to say this has changed. May I ask why you mentioned this? Genuine question on my part. No sarcasm.

Interesting what you say about microwave ovens. This is an excellent example of a product which can do so much, yet the appetite (no pun intended) of the consumer drove production almost entirely towards an affordable metal box which can reheat cooked food and cooked processed meals etc. rather than the original forecast back in the late 1970's or so when it was suggested that a microwave oven could well take the place of the domestic cooker. Though it's clear that it is possible to make such a thing, it's also clear that it's not what the consumer wants.

I suppose with a "decent" model being available for around £50 or so, we can't ask or indeed expect much service from it. And yet back in the day when domestic microwaves first became available, no one would have predicted for a moment that they'd ever become "disposable" items.


Post# 270965 , Reply# 94   3/9/2014 at 20:45 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I found out myself only recently that Beko were Turkish, and it was a surprise as I thought they were another Chinese made brand.

 

I use my microwave more than any other kitchen appliance with the exception of my kettle. I use it to cook ready meals, chips, pasties etc as its a very versatile machine, and my gas oven is pretty redundant now, as I prefer to use the oven facilty in the microwave. Sadly the quartz grill tube got broken, and I was looking at updating the machine as its now 8 years old and the turntable motor is also getting noisy and jerky. Its an LG model made in Korea. I read so many reviews of different models, from Samsung to Panasonic, and was surprised at how many negative reviews I was reading due to poor quality issues about these machines, which were mostly made in China now. Only Miele make a good quality free standing microwave in Germany, but its not a combination oven, and £500 odd.

I have decided to order a new quartz tube and synchronous motor for the LG, as I am not impressed with the current offerings of cheap rubbish made in China. That old LG model has done me proud for 8 years, so I might as well use it until the magnetron fails.


Post# 270966 , Reply# 95   3/9/2014 at 20:53 (3,672 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well its like bread makers - my mother's 15 year old Panasonic cost her £200 brand new - now you can get ones for £50 which is crazy!

If however there is one "domestic" appliance brand name that I feel has slipped in quality big time, it is of that of Sony. Sony audio products used to be the best to buy in terms of sound quality and power.

As soon as Sony changed manufacture from Japan to Malaysia in the early 1990s I noticed a huge drop of sound quality as well as general design.



Post# 270967 , Reply# 96   3/9/2014 at 20:58 (3,672 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Negative reviews

Ah well you see, there is so much in life now where the consumer pays a 1-star price yet expects a 5-star product or service in return.

Somethings are of course a given; a smile from a hotel receptionist and a warm, clean room is the very least one could expect, be this in a Travelodge or Claridges. Likewise a product should perform it's core purpose, no matter how much one pays. But beyond that, what else one gets could be considered to be subjective and indeed even a bonus. These days few people pay much for the likes of a microwave, but their expectation of all aspects of it is as high as ever.


Post# 270971 , Reply# 97   3/9/2014 at 21:16 (3,672 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I am prepared to pay up to £300 for a combi microwave, but I refuse to pay that much and its still made in China. The problem is that the choice that we had a few years ago seems to have dried up, and you either have a new Chinese made microwave, or fix your old one, and after experiencing terrible quality of Chinese made goods from faulty Vax vacuums to my latest £150 office chair that's falling apart already, quite frankly I'm sick and tired of wasting my money on Chinese tat.


Post# 271036 , Reply# 98   3/10/2014 at 11:53 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I agree Benny and well said!

I have a Panasonic combo oven. The one before that was Panasonic and the one before that was the cheap Argos-Delonghi model.

Well, the "Japanese" made Panasonic with a conventional door didn't last even when the oven was treated gently. There was also a product recall about it, which Panasonic took away quite happily, fixed and worked for a couple of years before it suddenly began to go strange with its oven element. Then, inexplicably one day, the inner glass door fell out and then the door housing that held that in, began to fail.

My current Panasonic has a flat floor design and pull down door. It is better made and guess what - it is made in China!

The Argos Delonghi, now in its seventh year is STILL going strong and is used in a holiday home.

BUT, I am beginning to wonder that with the weekly use I put my TOL Panasonic model through, perhaps I should be investing in a basic fan assisted main oven rather than continually using the Panasonic purely for its convection/fan assisted oven. I don't know if they are designed to be used so much.

Therefore I don't know if MY EXPECTATION of use of it is too high.



Post# 271041 , Reply# 99   3/10/2014 at 12:13 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

It came as a surprise to me that Panasonic were now producing their goods in China, as previously, they used to make them in Japan, or even the UK.

I note that Japan no longer produce as much as they used to - why might that be?

My car - a 1999 Toyota Yaris was made in Japan, and its still going strong, despite hardly ever breaking down and it now being 15 years old. Japanese goods were very good in the past, but UK model Toyota Yaris models haven't been made in Japan now for several years, being made in France instead.


Post# 271059 , Reply# 100   3/10/2014 at 14:23 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Panasonic produce in many Asian countries though, not just China and there are several premium brands who do likewise. Again it is the brand who concentrate on what they want to produce rather than what they need to produce and dependent on the company ethic, quality sometimes gets the top spot instead of quantity, though in terms of vacuums, Panasonic in the UK certainly took their time about it to get a new bagged upright out alongside their current series that has been going on for more than 10 years.

Geographically though Japan is smaller than China and the Yen has a much stronger force than the Chinese currency, there are only so many factories that Japan can have. Parts in China are cheaper to source, so go and figure there.



Post# 271064 , Reply# 101   3/10/2014 at 14:36 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I'd have bought one of the new Panasonic bagged uprights, had it not been for the price of the bags, which was the killer in the end. Whilst I think its a nice slim line looking vac, paying £14.99 odd for  bags for one takes the mick, especially when they are only paper bags and not a patch on the Miele Hyclean bags:




This post was last edited 03/10/2014 at 14:52
Post# 271066 , Reply# 102   3/10/2014 at 14:46 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Um, they're not paper bags. Don't know where you got that info from at all. That Panasonic uses synthetic dust bags (code U-13) that cost £5-99 to £10 dependent on seller. Review on Amazon UK (mine!) and prices now range from £5-49 for a pack of 5 from First4Spares. They lack a seal, that's all.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK


Post# 271068 , Reply# 103   3/10/2014 at 14:49 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

They looked like paper bags to me - here they are in picture:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK



This post was last edited 03/10/2014 at 15:07
Post# 271069 , Reply# 104   3/10/2014 at 14:54 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well I can assure, being the first person to buy the actual Panasonic off Amazon UK (and being the sole provided of that upright when it first appeared) that it came with synthetic dust bags with Panasonic's name on it.

If the link doesn't work, simply look at the video I made of it:






CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK


Post# 271070 , Reply# 105   3/10/2014 at 15:07 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Also the U-13 synthetic dust bags by Panasonic are also made to fit the bagged upright that appeared before the red upright, the MCUG614, which the U.S have under the Kenmore "Progressive Glide" too.

Panasonic's general code for the synthetic dust bags is AMC-D1EP.




Post# 271071 , Reply# 106   3/10/2014 at 15:09 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

found them now - I wonder why Freenet are advertising them as being paper, and worth £15 - surely that would put a lot of potential buyers off buying one?

 

By the way - is the MC-UG522 made in China?



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Post# 271073 , Reply# 107   3/10/2014 at 15:15 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well, Freenet are just a private company trying to make some money and if buyers are reigned in by that price and free bag offer, let them!

They are not the first company to do so - again, this is what happens when buyers make a search for products and things like that appear. You need to know your salt from your pepper.

As I say in the video and shown up at the end, that Panasonic is made in Mexico. But if you watch the video you'll see that the plastics aren't exactly "quality."


Post# 271075 , Reply# 108   3/10/2014 at 15:20 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I know we've discussed the MC-UG522 before, and I'm sure that back then I said the same thing about the bags being expensive considering they are only 3 litres. Take the Sebo K series, which is also 3 litres - they are the same price, but you get twice as many bags in a box, and they are fabric bags as well.

If Panasonic wanted to sell these vacs, then they should take into account the price of competitors bags. The older Panasonic uprights with bags held nearly twice as much dirt per bag, so made them more economical. I am pretty critical of things like this as you may have now found out, and they are most likely losing sales on these vacs on account of the price of the bags, as at the end of the day, they are not Miele vacs and the bags Panasonic supply are not multi layer Hyclean type bags like Miele sell for the same price.


Post# 271090 , Reply# 109   3/10/2014 at 16:43 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Yes but for the same argument's sake, the best Miele bag for the British pound is the bigger GN series, so you're spending more on either an outgoing S5 model to use that bag, or the cheaper S2 compromising on the lack of an internal tool storage and slightly longer cord and less power, to the new S8 successor model which is more expensive.

Therefore you could eliminate the S6 altogether for having the FJM bag which costs the same as the GN but losing out on the smaller dust bag capacity.

As highlighted before SEBO only make vacuums, so comparing another brand like Panasonic isn't really that fair - fine if it was Numatic - they and SEBO are together in terms of unique vacuum cleaner brands - after all they don't really make anything else that competes with the bigger brands, let alone Panasonic.

Frankly Steve, if you are of the opine that a thin synthetic dust bag that Panasonic supply (interestingly they share the same kind of consistency with both the K series, Felix and now new X bags) are not as good as multi layer, then you clearly don't know the mechanics of air flow and the mechanics of the vacuum cleaners in question.

Miele's vacuums have higher filtration layers because they've always done multi-layer and in some markets the AAC and HEPA filter cartridges are not available as single purchases. Therefore, lower models down the range only benefit from the Super Air Clean filter/standard filter and thus require the higher filtration layers to depend on.

SEBO's current synthetics have tightly packed layers that are not visible to the eye unless you cut the bag open and examine the layers in question. You'll have fun trying to pick it out amongst all the white fuzz, I can assure you!

Panasonic's synthetic dust bags actually have 5 layers of filtration. Coupled with the HEPA filter on board for a lower economical 1200 watt vacuum compared to Panasonic's standard (and May I just say) lower 3 ply paper bags for the 1900 watt uprights is more than sufficient.

You are trying to compare like with like, but what you forget is the high price of the SEBO K series, plus it being a cylinder vac with an air driven turbo brush at best or even the PN, means you're likely to spend more to actually buy the vacuum in question.

Though I paid £114 at the time for my Panasonic upright, the price of nearly 50% off now really isn't that much to moan about. I can't see any Miele or SEBO brand new going for £70, can you?

And whilst we are on the subject of synthetic dust bags, has Hoover launched any for their Purepower/Enigma uprights?


Post# 271093 , Reply# 110   3/10/2014 at 17:11 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Hoover did used to make a Purepower S Bag, back in the day, but not any longer. Oh, and I'm a middle aged man, so its my job to moan lol.

Miele vacs have nearly been as cheap as £70, with the S2 being sold for £99 not so long back. The K series is on Freenet from as little as £125, so they are not all that expensive in comparison, in fact, its a really good deal!

I think on this occasion we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject - no hard feelings.

 

Sebo K1 for £124.99: 



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Post# 271104 , Reply# 111   3/10/2014 at 17:39 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
End of day it is simpler than you think.

sebo_fan's profile picture
No hard feelings at all - but in a home requiring something compact with the same amount of power cord with a permanent brush roll - the Panasonic merits because it IS an upright vacuum cleaner.

Clearly Panasonic have thought about it wisely offering something with a smaller bag capacity than their white/black uprights with higher motor power and bag capacity just as SEBO have done with their X series versus Felix.

Both the SEBO K1 and Miele cylinders would be better rivals to consider because, after all, they ARE cylinder vacuums and both don't benefit from the added turbo brush as standard, which you'd have to spend £25 to £30 on top of the asking price on both of those German models, substantially taking out all consideration price wise versus Panasonic, anyway!


Post# 271116 , Reply# 112   3/10/2014 at 17:51 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Oh I agree totally that the Panasonic at the sale price of £70 is a very good deal - its cheaper than the older Hoover Purepower, and much more modern looking. I may still consider one for £70 - I was looking at the bagless version of this model, with the twin motors- the MC-UL426, now I do like the design of this model, and if the bagged model had the twin motor switchable brushroll, it would be a definite buy for me.

 

MC-UL426:


Post# 271122 , Reply# 113   3/10/2014 at 18:01 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I would be more inclined to go for the bagless version of that red upright, the MC-UL424. It is £89 on Amazon UK compared to £116 for that black version.

Has a brush roll on/off pedal too.

However, the Panasonic's main problem, regardless of whether it is bagless or bagged is that it is like the DC01 - it has a pivotal hinge - so whatever angle you hold the handle at, it won't always sweep the floor at the correct height.

Sorry to say, if I was going to go for bagless again it would probably be from the Vax empire. I haven't had problems with my past Mach Air models, so its win-win for me.


Post# 271123 , Reply# 114   3/10/2014 at 18:08 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The reason I'd go for the black model is that it has a separate brushroll motor, much like the Vax Mach Air, whereas the white model uses the main suction motor via a clutched pulley system to drive the brushroll.

I still like the design of the original Mach Air - its a very good machine, and has sold a hell of a lot of units for Vax - but its the patchy quality control that let it down - which we have discussed already at length.


Post# 271124 , Reply# 115   3/10/2014 at 18:19 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Check previous post if you haven't seen it - a U.S member found their version (in black and purple) though it is interesting to see there's get a much more reliable metal suction tube compared to the all plastic on the UK versions.

www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...

Frankly though, Im happy with what I've got -the Slalom is probably going to be the last bagless upright I will own.


Post# 271127 , Reply# 116   3/10/2014 at 18:24 (3,671 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
If it is of any help

I happen to know that the Numatic Henry dust bag fits that red Panasonic cleaner perfectly around the collar. You just have to tuck the edges in. The Qualtex version of the Henry bag is a perfect fit in every way, as it's quite a bit smaller in size and fits inside the cleaner with no bother.

Post# 271129 , Reply# 117   3/10/2014 at 18:34 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Does it really Benny? Those Henry Hepaflo bags are massive - 9 litres AFAIK. and they are good value too at about a tenner for 10.

 

Nar - I really like the US version of the Panasonic in black and purple - those colours go really well together. I see them dissing Chinese plastivacs on that side of the pond as well! lol


Post# 271130 , Reply# 118   3/10/2014 at 18:39 (3,671 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

Yes really. I know someone who has that exact same cleaner and they also have a Henry. They tried the bag and it fits the collar like a glove. Like I said, you just have to fold in the sides of the bag, but the beauty of these synthetic bags is that the air seems to penetrate from every available angle, unlike paper bags which don't like being folded over and which do of course also clog when dusty.

Post# 271131 , Reply# 119   3/10/2014 at 18:40 (3,671 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

UNLESS Benny means the Paper Bags. They have a similar collar to the Panasonic ones shown above.

Post# 271133 , Reply# 120   3/10/2014 at 18:45 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Well that's a surprise - there must be a fair bit of "excess baggage" on the Henry bag in the Panasonic as its only got a 3 litre capacity.

I may well get a red Panasonic bagged upright now, as I have plenty of Henry bags! For 69.99 its gotta be worth a try.


Post# 271134 , Reply# 121   3/10/2014 at 18:45 (3,671 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

"UNLESS Benny means the Paper Bags. They have a similar collar to the Panasonic ones shown above".

No, he means the synthetic bags which Numatic call HepaFlo. The hole in the collar of the Numatic bag is the same diameter on both paper and synthetic bags, and as this Panasonic cleaner relies totally on the collar of the bag being pushed tightly over the dust inlet tube rather than the collar being held in place with a clip or such like, the Numatic bag is a perfect fit.


Post# 271136 , Reply# 122   3/10/2014 at 18:47 (3,671 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Madabouthoovers

If you want to make a further saving, here is a link to the place where the person I know bought one from.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Vintagerepairer's LINK on eBay


Post# 271137 , Reply# 123   3/10/2014 at 18:48 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Hilo - this is what the Panasonic bags look like:


Post# 271139 , Reply# 124   3/10/2014 at 18:49 (3,671 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

Cheap bags too

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Vintagerepairer's LINK on eBay


Post# 271143 , Reply# 125   3/10/2014 at 18:58 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Thanks for the links- I will have to have a ponder. Its difficult now to decide which vacs I REALLY want, as I have over 50 and I have to start being a lot more choosy about any more that I buy - I have that dilemma that Roger faced, lack of space, and an insatiable appetite for buying more vacuums. Like Roger, I have to learn to say no, unless its a really special vac that I really want. Whilst it would be nice to get that Panasonic, I have to seriously consider my options. Its so easy to go online and press buy it now, but my little house cant be extended to accommodate my growing collection. I did vow a while back that I would restrict my purchases to quality German vacs, and possibly any rare vintage vacs that were too good to pass by.


Post# 271151 , Reply# 126   3/10/2014 at 19:18 (3,671 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Im the same Steve - I got rid of most of my vacuums and I don't have any regrets - I regretted getting rid of my vintage Hoover uprights but I realised that eventually if ever the zips on the outer soft bags went, getting original parts would be hard. Soft bag replacements are harder to find for the Hoover Junior and Senior compared to Turbopower brush rolls.

The days for bagless are over for me - for the mean time - until something quiet as a SEBO or Miele appears with NLOS, one day I may well be in the market for something bagless and I'll keep the Hoover Slalom for as long as it goes - the hose clip fell off only just a couple of months ago after the purchase from Amazon UK. I couldn't be bothered to package it up again and claim a new one. I never use the extension tube anyway -the hose on the Slalom is long enough whenever I go into "bagless" mode lol.

Granted the Vax Mach Air wasn't that noisy, but once you've had SEBO or Miele, its hard to pull away from putting up with too much noise. Even my Vax VCU02 with its "Oreck" like whine is quieter than the Vax Mach Air!





Post# 271154 , Reply# 127   3/10/2014 at 19:32 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I've got more and more fond of the Sebo K3, also due to its refined quietness, such that the X4 sounds noisy now in comparison. I think its a mark of quality when a vac has good soundproofing. It amazes me that Dyson, for all his technology guff he spouts, has never considered making his vacs run quietly  OK, they are not as bad as the DC07 was now, but they could still be blessed with more sound insulation.


Post# 271155 , Reply# 128   3/10/2014 at 19:37 (3,671 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

Someone once came into my shop to buy bags for whatever cleaner it was she had (I forget). Must have been shortly before I sold up in 2003, as she happened to mention the fact she'd owned a Dyson DC07 but got rid of it after only a year or two as she could not bear the noise of it. I recall clearly her saying that buying bags she could cope with, but the noise of the DC07 she could not, stating that she'd swapped bags for noise, in her eyes. Well, noise in her ears, technically.

Post# 271157 , Reply# 129   3/10/2014 at 19:47 (3,671 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The DC07 was introduced in 2001 Benny, so it must have been very nearly 2003 as you say if she'd had it for a couple of years. The DC07 was the loudest machine to date that Dyson have produced, and a shrill loud noise at that. Even though it sounded like one was standing under the flightpath at Heathrow airport when one was using ones DC07, I still liked them back then, as, like other people, I was taken in by Dyson's hype and marketing. I later bought a DC15, and it was much quieter, so it proves it can be done, but I don't think any cyclonic bagless vac will ever be as quiet as a quality bagged machine with variable power.


Post# 271236 , Reply# 130   3/11/2014 at 08:11 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well the X is an old upright, the K is a bit more modern and if you remove the SEBO nameplate and switch the machine on without the filter inside, you'll find the real noise of the motor, which is still pretty quiet. I was amazed the first time I removed that nameplate on my K series as I was shocked to the amount of noise that came out and wondered how a simple thin piece of plastic could shut out that - but that was back in the early days when I didn't know how SEBO designed the K series.

Dont forget though you've got 2100 watts of motor power there, so its a high one. Same with Miele - when you remove the filters, the motors do seem to be noisy. You'd think then other brands would sit up and notice that!


Post# 271237 , Reply# 131   3/11/2014 at 08:37 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

With the K series - by using the air belt and body of the cleaner to diffuse the exhaust air - its like putting the exhaust of a car engine through a muffler or silencer box, which deadens the sound by cancelling out the shock waves from the motor. With the cheaper brands, the exhaust from the motor simply goes through a cheap quality filter then straight out into the room. Also, don't forget that the Miele and Sebo cylinders are all power adjustable, so often we don't use them on full power, when they do actually make considerably more noise. Power control is a very good feature and very often I only use lower settings - on the K3, it comes with the same triangular dusting brush that the X series does. On the X series, the power of the motor and high airflow just sucks in the bristles of this brush into the suction hole and then no dirt can get through. With the K3, I can turn the power right down for using this brush and the bristles don't block the hole, and that's when the vacs are really quiet.


Post# 271273 , Reply# 132   3/11/2014 at 13:47 (3,670 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)        

oliveoiltinfoil's profile picture
There is a youtube channel called "Made in Germany" or something like that and they report on german manufacturing and there was one report on there of a classic german toy manufacture who have been making all widen toys for decades. The owner decided to shift around two thirds of his production to china, which he admitted was a mistake but at the detriment of lower costs. He found that the quality of the goods he was getting were terrible, because they didn't season or dry the wood properly, and the shipping over from china to Germany made the wood warp. A similar story for a British guy making flags and cushion covers who made an order from china worth a quarter of a million quid which was all faulty. Even though they agreed on a quality spec, the cut corners without telling him, but that is the Chinese nature. Money made. Made in Taiwan is a lot better. Look at the build quality on a HTC, they are mostly made in Taiwan. Even made in Vietnam or Indonesia is better. Europe and any country in the west is probably the best, a although the Koreans and Japs make good quality stuff. I think German products these days are not as consistent as they were. Not all German product are equally good. I rate sebo build quality over miele, and Volkswagen over Mercedes for example.

Post# 271276 , Reply# 133   3/11/2014 at 14:12 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Talking of Germany, Actually, when Mercedes decided to build in the U.S, the first wave of models lacked the perceived quality when they produced the first models (SUVs). Japanese companies like Toyota and Honda who produced in the U.S didn't have any quality problems, which is food for thought based on the company who are not making quality goods, compared to country of manufacture.

Post# 271277 , Reply# 134   3/11/2014 at 14:13 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Lets just hope that Miele and Sebo don't get the made in China bug and start manufacturing there instead of Germany. If they do, that will be the end of good quality vacuums. I just cant understand why people are standing for this poor quality crap we get from China, I know I am sick and tired of it. China is becoming a monopoly on white goods very rapidly, and its bad news.


Post# 271278 , Reply# 135   3/11/2014 at 14:16 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Actually, the K series brush comes from the C series cylinder vacs - SEBO made a larger dust brush for the X series where the bristles don't get sucked in and can be bought optionally. I don't know why SEBO put the smaller brush on the X series as it is pointless.

I've since bought SEBO's D tools and put them on my Felix. i suspect future tools for the SEBO series may be fashioned from the ones on the D series.


Post# 271283 , Reply# 136   3/11/2014 at 14:30 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The one thing I don't really like about the K series is that you have to use the crevice nozzle to be able to use the upholstery tool. Its a good thing I got a Sebo mini turbo tool off ebay, as I use this instead. You can get away with using the floor turbo brush to do the sofa and stairs if need be, but I prefer the mini turbo brush for the stairs and getting the white cat fur off my computer chair, which seems to be a magnet for it being a black fabric (and yes, it was made in China! (the chair, not the turbo brush lol))


Post# 271285 , Reply# 137   3/11/2014 at 14:34 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Do you need me to explain why SEBO made the K series that way?


Post# 271288 , Reply# 138   3/11/2014 at 14:43 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Its obvious that it had a squared off socket to be able to fit onto the top of the cleaner, but I'm unaware if there was a different reason for it?


Post# 271294 , Reply# 139   3/11/2014 at 14:56 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The K series was always the compact/"Kompakt" version of the C series which like Miele had three small cleaning tools as standard.

The K series was supposed to be the "lower" cylinder vac in the SEBO range by bag capacity as the C series used the bigger X series dust bag, keeping costs of manufacturing down until sales and profits came in to fulfil the need for a smaller, more compact and more powerful cylinder vacuum.

This is why, compared to the C series which have been on sale for some 17 years, the K series has only had two tools as standard that fit on the body and the clip on dusting brush option. That was the design brief all along - SEBO never intended for the K series to be an upmarket vacuum other than fit it with the option of the PN nozzle derived from the SEBO C3 which first had the electric hose set up and old ET-H floor head - the same one that is still sold today with the UK market SEBO K3 Premium. Other markets have the more modern Felix ET-1 floor head, as well as the D4 Premium in the UK.

To maximise cleaning versatility, the T shaped slip on upholstery tool was developed to slide onto the long crevice tool - the same one that is supplied on the Felix. SEBO wanted to keep costs down as well as keep the K series simple -which is why it has a slide on tool as opposed to the separate T shaped tool that came with the C series.

Even now the D series which replaces the C series comes with 3 standard cleaning tools. The long extension crevice tool on the K series, derived from the C series sees service on the Felix and the X series are designed to offer an extension tube/crevice in one.

Therefore it is clear to see SEBO like to keep things simple and its how they have managed so far without going further to enhance the vacuums with as many accessories that Miele supply.


Post# 271298 , Reply# 140   3/11/2014 at 15:23 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

But how many people actually buy any extra accessories from Miele for their canisters? I'd imagine not many. Your average Mrs Groggins from down the road isn't likely to go on Miele's website for an Accu Nova battery brush for her little 6210, or anything else really other than bags - and that's if she cant get them at the local Currys store. I'd also imagine that a good many people don't even use the standard accessories supplied with the cleaner, especially if they don't store in the cleaner, and then subsequently get lost.

Miele can supply as many accessories as they want - but its whether people actually buy them and use them that counts.

 

For me, the most used and useful accessories are the full size turbo brush, mini turbo brush and the small dusting brush. That's about it, I rarely use a crevice tool, or the T tool


Post# 271300 , Reply# 141   3/11/2014 at 15:28 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Miele wouldn't list the accessories on their site, Steve if customers weren't aware of them! Currys used to sell the Miele tools a lot until Miele listed them on their site due to customer demand.

You assume a lot about owners in general but if you have ever bought a Miele vacuum yourself, you get more than just a user manual and due to the cost price, not many owners DONT LOOK at the user manual.

There's often the additional "free accessories" leaflets etc and the UK user manuals do have links to cost optional accessories. Owners are aware of them.


Post# 271303 , Reply# 142   3/11/2014 at 15:40 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

On the subject of accessories, Nar, I heard somewhere that Sebo now only supply the ET-1 head with the K3 Premium, and that's only a recent thing, as many sites still show the old type motorised head with it, even Sebo's. But if you look at the UK issue instruction book, the latest version, (07/13) in English as well as German, it shows the ET-1 power head:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK

Post# 271304 , Reply# 143   3/11/2014 at 16:05 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Thats good. I sent an email to SEBO complaining about that a long while ago. As you know I have the original ETH with my K3 Premium - it is heavier, noisier, older and not as good at pick up - the twist dial at the back does very little to adjust to the height - so it is good to see Sebo now offering the K3 with the ET-1 at last.

Post# 271305 , Reply# 144   3/11/2014 at 16:12 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The thing is though - if you order one from anywhere, there stands a chance it could be old stock and still have the old type of power head. I though about this when I ordered my K3 vulcano, as I was toying with getting a K3 Premium instead. Its still shown on most sites with the old style power head and this will cause confusion, although they could be doing this as they still have old stock to sell, and don't want to show the later ET-1 head if they have only got those with the old head in stock. Hit and miss really whether you get an ET-1 or an ETH


Post# 271306 , Reply# 145   3/11/2014 at 16:14 (3,670 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

Sebo does show the ET 1 with the K3 Premium on their website and has done for several weeks now.

Before buying my X5 I emailed Sebo asking if they knew of a retailer who would have the latest version of the K3 as all the websites show the old power head. I had a rather unhelpful reply suggesting I tried John Lewis, who don't even sell the K3 Premium, or buying it direct from Sebo. I knew it would cost a lot more to buy direct, so I decided to get the X5 and wait a few months before getting the K3 when hopefully the new version will be in most online retailers.


Post# 271309 , Reply# 146   3/11/2014 at 16:25 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

So it does - but the brochure doesn't though:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK

Post# 271311 , Reply# 147   3/11/2014 at 16:27 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Roger, could you not contact Freenet and ask them to look at a box they have in stock? They may have the newer ones?


Post# 271313 , Reply# 148   3/11/2014 at 16:32 (3,670 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

I won't be buying a K3 until June and will contact a few retailers nearer the time to enquire if they have the latest model if the pictures on their website haven't been updated.

Post# 271314 , Reply# 149   3/11/2014 at 16:35 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I'll look forward to your video review on it - a nice long one like the D4 Premium! Now that IS an impressive cleaner, with lights like something of Doctor Whoooo! lol


Post# 271318 , Reply# 150   3/11/2014 at 16:51 (3,670 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

Yes it will be a long one, ooh err misus!

I had a K3 Premium a few years ago and really liked it, but sold it when I was short of cash, knowing that I would buy another at some stage. Since I had mine, the power has been increased from 1800 to 2100 watts and it has a longer hose. I never really liked the ETH power head and used the head from my Felix with my K3 which gave a better performance. I still have an ETH head with my C3 Power Plus, but I fit the ET 1 that came with my D4 when I use my C3.

The D4 is excellent but rather bulky, and I feel that the K3 Premium will offer similar performance in a much more compact, lightweight cleaner. I have always preferred cylinders with power heads as they are much easier to push than a straight suction nozzle, even if they are a lot heavier.


Post# 271322 , Reply# 151   3/11/2014 at 17:20 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

That's the main reason I didn't go for the D series - its for very large houses, and I live in a 2 bedroom Victorian terrace. Whilst its very good, I do actually prefer the looks of the K series, and its unusual bag loading system, which seems a lot more robust than the bag door on the S6 series. I think the K is an understated and undersold vac - when you've used on for a while you get to appreciate that its a very competent little machine, and with the bags at half the price of Miele's I don't mind that its only a 3 litre capacity, as in my house, with just me and my cat, it will still take a while to fill one up.

What would have made the Vulcano perfect, is if Sebo would use a radio controlled remote handle, like on the Miele versions with remote handles, and that on my S8730. It would do away with the hose internal cable, so that only the K3 Premium would need it.


Post# 271348 , Reply# 152   3/11/2014 at 20:13 (3,670 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well, I ended up having to replace the bag door on my first SEBO K1 - a light blue 1800 watt Komfort that I bought from John Lewis many moons ago. The doors tend to last a long time and I had that K1 Komfort model for a few good years before I bought my SEBO Felix. The door however eventually began to wear down and had to be replaced as it began to get difficult to close the door over - it was fairly easy to get a brand new spare door as I found out as I wasn't aware I could get spare parts like that.

The K series is a very competent vac and it is largely understated and probably due to negative reviews in the past from buyers who have reported that the cords got stuck inside the machine.

Another issue seems to be the side on hose mount on the body. It can allow the machine to move "one sided" and not in the way the owner wants the vacuum to go. I have noticed this aspect myself on older K series models before SEBO improved the castors with bigger wheels as shown firstly on the K3 Vulcano before SEBO went and changed the colours with the 2100 watt motor upgrades

Even the base K1 Airbelt has the bigger wheels now.



Post# 271350 , Reply# 153   3/11/2014 at 20:26 (3,670 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The only thing I could see that could get worn is the lugs on the bag door that engage the bag holder assembly, which, as you push the door closed, push the bag housing up against spring pressure so that the bag hole presses up to the inlet pipe. I little grease on these lugs would help prevent wear on them. That's the only thing I thought straight away as a future failure point. The other being the failure of the cable inside the hose. Once that fails, the motor will run at full speed all the time, the same as if you remove the hose and switch the machine on.

Where the hose enters the handle, there are 3 copper contact rings with spring contacts, so enabling the hose to twist in the socket through 360 degrees. I don't know why they didn't do this at the other end of the hose where there is no swivel. Possibly cost reasons?

I have noticed though that the orange Airbelt has now developed little black marks over each little hole in the rubber mount underneath, where the air blows through - I presume that it is carbon dust staining, although I don't see how, as the post motor filter is supposed to stop this from reaching the air belt.


Post# 271479 , Reply# 154   3/12/2014 at 10:41 (3,669 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
It could well be the dirt in your home/air. Mine went like that as well, but a damp cloth can remove it, provided you take the air belt off - and is easy to push and fold back on.

The beauty of the SEBO K is that is so much better built than any Miele vacuum that I find rivals, it though. Even when the lid of a Miele vacuum is opened up just after use, the AAC or HEPA filter pops out and if it is removed you get black fingers from the carbon on the underside.

SEBO's filters lack that, so there's no dirt and none of their other filters "pop out," either.



Post# 271481 , Reply# 155   3/12/2014 at 10:55 (3,669 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I've never noticed the filter pop out on the Miele, although I've heard stories about it on ebay and reviews, but I assumed that was because the seller had used crap quality bags and they had clogged up the exhaust filter, which is why it blew off in use.

 

I'm leaving my Airbelt as it is - if I clean in, then it will only get black spots over it again in a week or so, so I presume they are meant to do that - what it does show is that there is more exhaust holes down one side of the cleaner  than the other


Post# 271518 , Reply# 156   3/12/2014 at 13:13 (3,669 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
If you still have a Miele cylinder vac, Steve, remove the hose, lift the lid and switch on - the filter on top may well pop off.

Post# 271553 , Reply# 157   3/12/2014 at 17:21 (3,669 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Yes, it does, they all do. The lid is designed to hold the exhaust filter housing down in place. As the bag compartment develops negative (suction) pressure, it pulls the lid hard down at full power, which counteracts the positive (blowing) pressure build up behind the (unclogged) filter cassette and holds it down.

The problem comes when the filter is clogged, so not enough airflow can pass through it at higher power, this creates not enough negative pressure in the bag compartment  but enormous positive pressure behind the filter, and even with the lid closed and catched, it is not enough to hold the filter down, and the filter distorts the lid, and dislocates itself from its housing.  The seal between the exhaust housing and the bag compartment is then disrupted allowing air to pass between them, thus the motor breathes again (by recirculating the same air over and over) but the cleaner wont have any suction at the hose, which is the problem that sellers on ebay have when they don't change the exhaust filter on time, or use cheap bags which cause the filter to clog prematurely, and this is more a problem with the Active Air Clean and Active HEPA filters as people often don't realise they need to buy new ones every year, and continue to use the cleaner until the above situation occurs.


Post# 271627 , Reply# 158   3/13/2014 at 08:45 (3,668 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Or that they have forgotten about the date they wrote on those filters in the first place? No wonder the Super Air Clean filter grid is often fitted as standard.


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