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Thread Number: 23926
"Automatic" brush height adjustment |
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| Post# 267951 2/16/2014 at 09:39 (3,714 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
Hello everyone. Newbie here! Looks like a nice forum with decent people.
One of my first topics I want to bring up is manufactures who make upright claiming to have "automatic" head height adjustment, or "suitable for all floors". There are a few upright out there which genuinely do automatically adjust the head depending on the floor type, for example the sebo X series uprights and the miele s7 with spring loaded brush roll, oh and the dyson dc41. But manufactures like Vax, Bissell and AEG/Electrolux say their do as well when all it is, is a fixed brush bar. False advertising ? It's silly really and its amazing some people believe it. Anyways? Opinions? | ||
| Post# 267963 , Reply# 1 2/16/2014 at 13:27 (3,714 days old) by DC (Arizona, USA) | ||
Those vacuum brands are greedy, and just want your money if they are falsely advertising auto adjustment to lure in consumers when all they have a fixed brush bar. I don't know any Bissell that advertises auto adjustment, but here's one I found on Amazon in the link below.
Here's some false advertising I read about yesterday: You may know about the Dyson DC33 "Multi-floor." I have read many reviews on Amazon that say this vacuum has a loud grinding noise from the clutch when cleaning certain carpets, like thicker pile carpets for example. These people contacted Dyson customer care, and Dyson customer care says that if the Dyson DC33 makes a grinding noise, that means the vacuum isn't suitable for your carpet. Calling it a "multi-floor" vacuum is false advertising if it's unable to go on different types of carpet. CLICK HERE TO GO TO DC's LINK | ||
| Post# 267964 , Reply# 2 2/16/2014 at 13:33 (3,714 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
It is an interesting question.
It makes sense to offer the user a manual front end height adjustment on uprights and power nozzles. That being said, some of the best Hoover and Eureka power nozzles did not have any way of adjusting the height and yet they performed with excellence on all kinds of carpet. Though you need to bend down to adjust manual height adjusters, I prefer them to electronically-activated mechanisms as they are less repair-prone. Some here at Vacuumland report that electrically-activated height adjusters don't make proper contact with the carpet nap. So I prefer manual mechanisms. My big complaint about height adjusters on vacs is that some of them offer a "bare floor" setting which does not shut off the brush roll. To me, having a spinning brush roll touch a bare floor could easily scratch that floor. | ||
| Post# 267966 , Reply# 3 2/16/2014 at 13:37 (3,714 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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It's like the Panasonic Bagged Uprights - they claim to have an Automatic Height Adjustment but really their on the lowest setting. | ||
| Post# 267969 , Reply# 5 2/16/2014 at 13:49 (3,714 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
Manual height adjustment I agree that manual height adjustment is the only way to go. But not all vacuums with manual height adjustment require you to bend down to make an adjustment. The Kirby is one of the few that you can adjust with a touch of your toe and it has 7 height levels to choose from. Some all metal Royal vacs also have touch toe height adjustment. Both of these vacs force the nozzle down to the carpet allowing for perfect height adjustment every time. This post was last edited 02/16/2014 at 15:41 | ||
| Post# 268013 , Reply# 7 2/16/2014 at 18:07 (3,714 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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Thanks for the replies. Looking beyond what these do, or don't do for vacuums, it is misleading advertising. I probably should have said manufactures who claim to have "suitable for all floors", when it is a fixed height and no on/off for the brushroll.
Yeah, I don't know much about kirbys, only that they are considered by many as the panicle of vacuum performance. I would imagine sebo's get pretty close. I agree that the X series automatics are true "automatic" height adjustment, but I prefer my felix with manual adjustment. | ||
| Post# 268015 , Reply# 8 2/16/2014 at 18:34 (3,714 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Auto adjusting isn't misleading advertising.
Some brands have made it confusing by suggesting that auto adjustment means the upright automatically adjusts to the "correct" floor height; other brands suggest that it does away with a manual dial. In reality, auto adjustment eliminates "one less thing" to go wrong, but don't forget a lot of uprights now also have a static brush or rubber strip fitted to guide dirt along. Deep vacuums like Oreck that don't have a dial and "fixed" height have deeper, bushier brush rolls to cope with getting deep into the dirt in the carpet. I can tell you now that a Kirby will clean up better than SEBO only because the Kirby is a dirty fan vac compared to SEBO that is clean air. It doesn't just come down to the design of the brush roll or whether the vacuum has auto adjustment or not - as some members have reported on here already - the SEBO auto adjustment doesn't go low enough for some carpet pile. | ||
| Post# 268017 , Reply# 9 2/16/2014 at 18:59 (3,714 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268018 , Reply# 10 2/16/2014 at 19:23 (3,714 days old) by DC (Arizona, USA) | ||
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Steve, the S7's automatic Height adjustment does work. Yes, the springs are a little stiff, but considering how fast the RPM is and the powerful force of the S7's beater brush beating the carpet, the brush should change to the correct height for certain carpet heights while the springs go under pressure. Also, the springs are stiff so that the springs can force down the beater brush to dig deeper into the carpet at a changed brush height. It does a great job on all my 1.5cm tall wall-to-wall carpeting.
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| Post# 268019 , Reply# 11 2/16/2014 at 19:34 (3,714 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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| Post# 268021 , Reply# 12 2/16/2014 at 20:17 (3,714 days old) by DC (Arizona, USA) | ||
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I really do prefer manual height adjustment, generally. I may have a Miele S7, but the spring loaded height adjuster that adjusts to all varying heights correctly is interesting and makes sense to me (as I explained on my last reply here). I don't really go for vacuums with an auto height adjuster like the X4's because, like you said Ollie, it may adjust wrong. I do like the Sebo Essential G or Sebo 370 just because they have manual adjustment. To be honest, I do miss having a vacuum with manual height adjustment just because I like traditional vacuums like that. I may look into one of the Sebos I mentioned.
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Post# 268032 , Reply# 13 2/16/2014 at 21:40 (3,714 days old) by Durango159  (State College, PA) |
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EurekaPrince said it all the way!!
I could not agree more with EurekaPrince in Reply 2!
To the user the Automatic Carpet Height Adjustment means that they don't have to do any manual setting whatsoever and the unit will be able to glide smoothly over all surfaces with no adjustment. The Sebo has gone further with having a computer sensor gauge where the resistance of the brush hitting on the carpet is sensed and adjust the head based on that setting. However, many users including myself have found that setting doesn't groom and deep clean well enough. I don't consider false advertising if its something I as a user don't have to make any adjustments to. Now with machines market as Bare floor cleaning, many have a squeegee or brush on bottom to push debris into agitator path but machines with no brush roll shut off could do very serious damage to floors, example: Hoover Windtunnel. Some others like many Orecks do an ok job on many hard surface flooring. I for one don't like the idea of ANY revolving brush on hard surfaces for the following reasons: Marred finish on Hardwood and Laminate Scratch marks and possible broken rug guards on base plate Some wheels not gliding smoothly Loose dirt scattered away and not caught by airflow Airflow not strong enough to concentrate into grooves, or grout Agitator bristles worn down drastically due to sand paper like effect especially on tile and concrete surfaces or thresholds. Missing fine coating of dust and sand that a soft horsehair stationary brush would gently sweep away. | ||
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Post# 268046 , Reply# 14 2/16/2014 at 22:39 (3,714 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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Did you all know about the 4 height adjustment  | ||
| Post# 268054 , Reply# 15 2/17/2014 at 01:12 (3,714 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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I still think it is slightly wrong that some of them put "auto height adjustment" when there is no adjustment in the brush bar height at all. To say something I automatic means it does it for you. It is kind of superficial. What is more of a question like some of you pointed out is "suitable for all floors". Probably should have put that, but the two are linked in a way. I think I remember getting a vax around 7 years ago which said it was suitable for alt types of floors, but in the instructions booklet on the front page, it said "cleaner may cause damage to certain bare floor types. Vax is not responsible for damaged surfaces" or something along those lines.
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| Post# 268055 , Reply# 16 2/17/2014 at 03:37 (3,714 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
Oooohh somebody DARED to mention the Sebo X series, how dare they!
Alex, I don't know why you bother reading threads where you know the Automatic X is going to get a mention and I doubley have no idea why you both repeating your dislike over and over again and continuing to post about them with nothing constructive or relevant to contribute. You don't like them - we get it. Play a new record, please? Ollie, welcome to the forum! With regards to auto height adjustment, Ryan (Sebo_Fan) has pretty much hit the nail on the head with the floating head stuff. I can kind of understand it being branded as auto height adjustment. As much as you're right in that the brushroll doesn't move, the cleaner head does as it's connected on a pivot point with floating rear wheels which angles the cleaner head to the carpet, in a similar way to the height adjustment on the Hoover Senior. The only true automatic adjustment machine is, as Ryan pointed out, the Sebo Automatic X. I've always found that the auto height adjustment does a fantastic job and a recent thread I posted clearly shows the improvement in performance between automatic height adjustment and floating heads (link below - no need to argue, Alex, you've already done that in the other thread :P). Having said that, I wouldn't want to use any upright on bare floors - that's really where cylinders come into their own. I would say that manual height adjustment cleaners with a hard floor setting are totally useless. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Turbo500's LINK | ||
| Post# 268061 , Reply# 17 2/17/2014 at 06:04 (3,714 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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"only true automatic adjustment machine is, as Ryan pointed out, the Sebo Automatic X. I've always found that the auto height adjustment does a fantastic job"
...But it doesn't, all that dirt it picked up after the Panasonic, a Contour could of done that, little wonder anyway, those Panasonic's don't even touch the carpet at the best of times! You have to lean the handle back really far for it to dig in nicely.
Chris, I think you just don't like the fact that I am right. | ||
| Post# 268066 , Reply# 18 2/17/2014 at 06:38 (3,714 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City) | ||
The term "automatic" ...
... is derived from the Greek word "automatos", meaning "self-moving" or "self-thinking".
For something to be truly "automatic", the object in question must be engaging in some sort of *action*. A stationary brush roll on a power nozzle with fixed wheels that's appropriate for all floor surfaces isn't engaging in any *action*, therefore it can't be described as having an "automatic" adjust. And calling it a "self-adjust" is blatantly worse, as there's no "adjusting" going on in the first place. | ||
| Post# 268067 , Reply# 19 2/17/2014 at 06:46 (3,714 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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I think you just don't like the fact that I am right
No, Alex, I don't like the fact that you feel the need to shove your opinion down everybody's throat everytime somebody even mentions a Sebo Automatic X because you THINK you're right. You're quite obviously not right because opinion is totally subjective and for every person who doesn't like the Automatic X, there will be another that does.
I don't like Dyson's, but I don't go about commenting on every single post about them annoucing the fact that I don't like them and giving the same reasons why OVER and OVER and OVER again. I don't have anything remotely constructive to say about Dysons, so I just don't say anything about them. You don't like the X, we know, you've told us all a thousand times and it's getting old. You're not even constructive with it, you're just plain rude about it. "Whenever I hear "Automatic X series" I hear screaming down my ears using one of those can near enough make my blood boil." ...What's wrong with a simple "I'm not a fan of the X series, personally". This thread is NOT going to become another Sebo-bashing outlet for you - we already have that for the world to read in the thread I linked to, so please do us all a favour and keep it in that thread, not this one. | ||
| Post# 268068 , Reply# 20 2/17/2014 at 06:50 (3,714 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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A stationary brushroll isn't engaging in any *action*
Whilst that's true that the brushroll is not, the cleaner head is moving and therefore engaging in action.
Like on the Panasonic's here and the US models with the floating rear wheels, the cleaner head will be at a different height for different surfaces. And it pivots, therefore it is self-moving. Same with Dyson uprights, although the front of the cleaner head pivots, rather than the rear wheels. | ||
| Post# 268069 , Reply# 21 2/17/2014 at 06:50 (3,714 days old) by kenkart () | ||
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Hoover!!! Had automatic height adjustment in 1936 on the 150...and no one has yet made one that worked as good in my opinion!And the thing is...it works on plush carpets that had not been invented yet!!! | ||
| Post# 268073 , Reply# 22 2/17/2014 at 06:57 (3,714 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City) | ||
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You're missing the point ...
"Whilst that's true that the brushroll is not, the cleaner head is moving and therefore engaging in action."
Not in terms of the brushroll "adjusting" itself in relation to the carpet surface. You could take your argument to absurd lengths, saying that *everything* is "engaging in action" because the earth is spinning. | ||
| Post# 268078 , Reply# 23 2/17/2014 at 07:45 (3,714 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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*everything* is "engaging in action" because the ear
Well, no, because we're not discussing the earth moving, we're discussing the cleaning moving to adjust to different floortypes.
Whilst the brushroll isn't moving, the cleaner head IS. No manufacturer has claimed "automatic brushroll adjustment", in which case you'd be absolutely spot on. But as I'm sure you know, the brushroll doesn't necessarily have to move. The Hoover Senior/Convertible height adjustment works by adjusting the rear wheels, thus angling the floorhead in a particularly position. The floating head design of automatic height adjustment does the same thing, but replaces the height adjustment with a pivoting floorhead and floating rear wheels, so there is very much still an "action" occuring - the pivoting of the floorhead and the constant movement of the rear wheels (not just round and round like normal, but actually moving position) is still an action, thus making it "automatic". And I'm not saying that the action of moving the cleaner back and forth across the carpet is an action either(I mean, it is, but not one relevant to this particular discussion), I'm talking about the floorhead actually moving and adjusting as a result of the surface, without the user having to make any manual adjustments. | ||
| Post# 268079 , Reply# 24 2/17/2014 at 07:50 (3,714 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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I've held off until more replies came into this subject - you are ALL forgetting one vital thing where auto adjustment is concerned (and that concerns ALL uprights).
Carpets are porous compared to hard floors. Thus air sits between the carpet pile and the suction caused by the vacuum from the brush roll. If it was the case that carpet wasn't porous, you wouldn't require a beater bar or a moving brush to beat dirt out as it would all sit at the top surface, ready to be collected. Thus, not all conventional uprights with "auto adjustment" deliver poor performance. There's a bit more to the eye where pick up is concerned and from what I have observed. There are auto types like the Dyson DCO1 and (countless others that have followed suit) with the "handle angle user adjustable" floor head style where the owner will stoop or stand up straight with the upright to get the ideal cleaning angle that automatically pivots the floor head onto the carpet. The more you stoop with the DC01, the more the floor head will drop further down onto a carpet - same with the Panasonic bagged uprights. However other "auto adjusting" models like the Vax Mach Air don't have the hinged floor head where the user's angle of placement of holding the vacuum doesn't determine the floor head height. Morphy Richards Clarity/Shark Navigator doesn't have it either. As for the manual height adjusters - the best ones I've ever found have been on the Hoover Convertible/Senior/Ranger or the Junior - nothing else seems to be that well made - or so conveniently located. Alex - literally using a TP1 hurts my ears and I'm surprised they don't annoy your neighbours each time you use one. Yes, A 4-height adjuster is good - if it works and if it remains intact. Sadly in my hands I seemed to have broken more Hoover Turbopower 1 height adjustment knobs far more times than I care to remember. Everything past the handle just seemed so brittle on that model. | ||
| Post# 268080 , Reply# 25 2/17/2014 at 07:53 (3,714 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Chris, there are probably more people that don't like the X series than the ones that do, it is not my opinion that the Sebo skims the carpet IT DOES, fact!! Watch Rogers X5 video from floor level it is practically hovering over the carpet. How is it not appropriate to bring the X range into it...Have you not read the title? | ||
| Post# 268081 , Reply# 26 2/17/2014 at 07:57 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268082 , Reply# 27 2/17/2014 at 08:01 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well I did refer to the manual height adjuster on the TP1 Alex - a little detail you've failed to notice.
The term and the post is down to current vacuums, surely, Alex? This post was, after all created in the contemporary forum, so why mention the Electrolux Contour? Your Contour is no longer made, quelle surprise. I've had two - not easy to push, not easy to use on carpets in general. Funny how I found the much heavier Hoover Senior easier to push than the awful plastic Contour - but then I think it points down to metal base quality and far bigger wheels with a more comfortable design. Oh no I can't mention that - the Senior isn't made any more - but wait - there's far more of them on EBAY than the crusty old Contour. | ||
| Post# 268083 , Reply# 28 2/17/2014 at 08:16 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I mentioned the Contour because they are not that great really with a sparse soft brush, brushroll and whimpy suction, the 600W models, that is. So I said that even a Contour would of picked up what the Sebo did after the ill designed Panasonic pivoting cleaning head...Meaning the Sebo X wasn't that great, it isn't the Sebo it's self, it is that silly computer that makes it not as good as it could be. (In my opinion!!) Now I will agree that the Contour can be difficult to push and likewise the 600 series but a bit of furniture polish on the wheel shaft and sole plate can help do the trick. Also, I did see the part about the TP1 height adgustment, I noticed you said that you said it often broke, well I haven't had that issue, although, I am not rough with any of my cleaners so perhaps that is down to man handling...
I do love the Juniors and Seniors dearly and of course where better built than the heap of plastic which came out in the 80's but they can be quite impractical for hose use and picking up such things as rice and little stones off of shoes. | ||
| Post# 268084 , Reply# 29 2/17/2014 at 08:19 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Alex,
You're not even reading what I'm saying, are you? Figures. I never said it wasn't appropriate to bring it up. But reading the title, by your own admission, you should've KNOWN it would come up. And yet, the minute someone utters the word "Sebo", you're in there like the vacuum section of the SAS ready to brand-bash. As I said, you don't even have anything relevant to offer to this thread, other than your Sebo dislike, which wasn't and is never done in a constructive manner. If you *know* that the X series is going to come into the conversation, why do you bother even reading it? You've got nothing of any worth to say, so why waste your energy? Your comment above is a perfect example: "Whenever I hear "Automatic X series" I hear screaming down my ears using one of those can near enough make my blood boil." WHAT is the point in posting THAT? See, there you go again - "this is what I think, therefore I'm right, you're wrong and everybody else should think the same thing as me". I completely disagree with you, I think the Sebo Automatic X system works great and the reason it's light to use is because the brushroll is at the correct height and not one that's too low and creates resistance, making the cleaner difficult to push. I've found it leaves lovely track marks in the carpet and brings the pile up nicely. So, by my opinion being completely different to yours, that automatically (no pun intended) makes it subjective. Also, it is always YOU that manages to turn anything Sebo related into a discussion about how much better you think the Turbopower 1 & 2 are than anything modern. Always. It's pretty much guarunteed. You even did it just then - was any mention of the Turbopower made AT ALL during this thread? And yet, you have to bring it up. Broken record. | ||
| Post# 268086 , Reply# 31 2/17/2014 at 08:22 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Yes but had you not mentioned your instant response of negativity, we wouldn't be going down this road.
Also you didn't mention the 600 w rated models of the Contour in your initial post. Now of course you develop your answer. Also this original thread talks about upright performance, brush roll and auto adjustment. There is no reference to usage of a hose. | ||
| Post# 268087 , Reply# 32 2/17/2014 at 08:24 (3,713 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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Well this has escalated quickly
Not all manufactures do this but a lot of them do. More to the point, I think its pushing it a bit when they claim to be "suitable for all floors", when you have a vacuum that you can't turn the brush bar off, for example.
Manual height adjustment is the best to be honest. The X1 is a good vacuum and it performs well, but not on the thicker carpets. However the felix and the powerhead cylinders (which as we know use the same head) do a much better job as you have 4 positions. Would also like to point out, I had a Miele S7 allergy model, the white one, and I honestly do not think it deep cleaned or groomed my thicker carpets as well as my felix. It used to bunny hop (I think its called) over the carpets. P.S - Try and keep this civil guys. We are not debating a new world order here :/ | ||
| Post# 268088 , Reply# 33 2/17/2014 at 08:25 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Following my post above and Alex's most recent post....
It's quite obvious, Alex, that you're in a little world of your own and having your own conversation with yourself, so I'm not even going to bother having this conversation with you anymore. You've managed to twist a perfectly reasonable conversation about auto height adjustment into a discussion about the performance of a Contour vs a Sebo, the benefits of dirty fan over clean air and the history of Hoover's plastic uprights in 1 post out of absolutely NOWHERE. I do hope the conversation in your head doesn't start to disagree with you. | ||
| Post# 268089 , Reply# 34 2/17/2014 at 08:25 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268090 , Reply# 35 2/17/2014 at 08:30 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268093 , Reply# 36 2/17/2014 at 08:35 (3,713 days old) by madabouthoovers () | ||
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Seems its not just me Turby hates then Alex - he was extremely rude and insensitive towards me yesterday which ended up getting my thread removed. Not really a good advert for Vacuumland is he, as has already been notice by Oliver. | ||
| Post# 268094 , Reply# 37 2/17/2014 at 08:36 (3,713 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City) | ||
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LOL I love you guys ... | ||
| Post# 268097 , Reply# 38 2/17/2014 at 08:42 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I don't hate Chris and he does't hate me, we are good friends, believe it or not, it is just we hate our opinions which as you can imagine gets us both quite frustrated. I suppose he was a bit rude in that thread but I can't help agreeing with him. It is rather annoying when you delete your posts so people can't see what you have written. | ||
| Post# 268100 , Reply# 40 2/17/2014 at 08:56 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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That was a bit deep and extreme, lol. I am not pushing you away, what you on about? Well I am going to stand by my friends am I not? (as you probably would do) As appose to someone I don't really know, I have known Chris for a while and he is a sweet heart. I do appreciate you sticking up for me, Steve. I don't know enough about you though, Steve, to gather an opinion on you so I won't say anything. | ||
| Post# 268101 , Reply# 41 2/17/2014 at 08:56 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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I don't hate Alex at all. Infact, we're good friends and have been for a long while. We just have very different opinions, which is fine, but Alex has a habit of shoving it in peoples faces without actually offering any real point. THAT pisses me off. Equally, there are things I do that wind Alex up to no end and I know it - believe me, I'm the first to admit my own faults - but that doesn't mean that we don't like and don't respect eachother.
Madabouthoovers, it seems now that it is YOU who is the pot. You were unnecessarily rude to a new member in that thread and you were very direct about it too, calling him selfish and sneaky. I haven't been rude to Ollie at all. Talk about being a good advert? Take your own advice. Yes, I was rude to you. And I meant every word. Just like you were rude to me out of nowhere in a certain thread in miscellania. You've also been very rude and very personal with your name calling, but as I said yesterday, you're sneaky and delete your posts when you think nobody has seen it. So don't start trying to play Mr. Victim, because it won't wash. People do talk outside this forum, you know, and those who matter are onto you. | ||
| Post# 268102 , Reply# 42 2/17/2014 at 09:03 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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That's just the thing, Alex, madabouthoovers thinks he knows people based on a few words on a screen. Like many, many members on here, we know eachother outside the forum and are friends. Madabouthoovers knows absolutely nothing about any of us, as is evident by his "little tyke" comment (FTR, I'm actually 5 years older than Alex).
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| Post# 268104 , Reply# 44 2/17/2014 at 09:13 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268105 , Reply# 45 2/17/2014 at 09:17 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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when you post the sort of nasty bile about me
Pull your head out of your ass.
You were VERY rude to a new member yesterday and then deleted your post to avoid getting caught. And it's not the first time you've done it, nor am I the only person who has noticed. You were also VERY rude to me, calling me everything under the sun, and then again deleted your post to avoid getting caught. Stop trying to play the victim. So hard done to, aren't you? Oh, we're bullying you out, eh? Rubbish! You give just as much crap as you take, and you deserve it. Quite frankly, you'd do well to take your own advice - grow up and get a life. I haven't slagged anybody off. I have very different opinions to Alex and yes, he does things that are annoying (which usually, Alex is the first to admit), but that doesn't mean I think he's a bad person and don't like him. I certainly haven't openly started calling him names for no reason. You, on the other hand... | ||
| Post# 268109 , Reply# 49 2/17/2014 at 09:24 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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what has that got to do with it?
Correct me if I'm wrong, Alex, but I believe the point you were trying to make here is that I work damn hard for what I've got, so I'm hardly spoilt.
Also, when I said "those who matter", what on earth made you think I meant the moderators? Although I don't doubt that they've sussed you out too, I wasn't actually referring to them. Maybe you should go outside and discover this thing called "real life". It's very interesting, I'm sure you'd enjoy it. | ||
| Post# 268110 , Reply# 50 2/17/2014 at 09:25 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268111 , Reply# 51 2/17/2014 at 09:29 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Hi Roger,
It would certainly be interesting to see how the X5 does against the Turbopower. Not being cheeky and asking, but purely because you have some impressive machines and a good variety, would it be possible to compare a manual height adjustment cleaner, a computer controlled auto height adjustment and a floating head cleaner? That might be a good comparison to post on this thread, then the differences between all 3 can be seen? I'll try and do the same when I get home tonight, although I'm working late, but watch this space. | ||
| Post# 268112 , Reply# 52 2/17/2014 at 09:35 (3,713 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire) | ||
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Blimey! I wrote my post after seeing my video of the X5 mentioned and didn't read what followed! | ||
| Post# 268113 , Reply# 53 2/17/2014 at 09:39 (3,713 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire) | ||
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Chris, I will certainly do a comparison video of the X5 and G1 and possibly a video comparing the S7 to the X5 but it may not be for a few weeks. | ||
| Post# 268114 , Reply# 54 2/17/2014 at 09:41 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Roger I enjoyed reading your post, it appeared to bring some sanity to this somewhat (yet again) petty argument. To be honest I can't say if the Sebo is better built than anything Hoover produced from the 80's through to the 90's because I wasn't there to make that conclusion at the time when the plastics where fresh from the moulds. I can't, unfortunately say if the Sebo is better built than what Hoover produced because all my Turbopower 1's and 2's are 20-30 years old now. Imagine what the plastic might of been like all that time ago and likewise imagine what the modern Sebo's plastic would be like in 20-30 years time. If the Turbopower 1 had the same quality of plastic now that it did 30 years ago, then I am surprised they lasted so long. Although I think we can agree that Turbopowers were a bit hit an miss probably due to the large numbers Hoover had to make them in, some are stronger and sturdier than others. | ||
| Post# 268117 , Reply# 55 2/17/2014 at 09:46 (3,713 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire ) | ||
madabouthoovers
to be honest you have been pretty rude to just about everyone, like you were to me, look at reply 78, and then you removed the 2 other comments, christ only knows what you put there. on the subject of SEBO's I dont mind my X4 overall it is great vacuum but do prefer the ET-1 powerhead
CLICK HERE TO GO TO thekirbylover's LINK | ||
| Post# 268120 , Reply# 57 2/17/2014 at 09:57 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Some are strong and sturdier than others
Yes, and the TP series was mass produced whereas SEBO test each model before it is put out to sale. Alex, thus if in your humble opinion you feel that "some" Hoover TP models are better built than others, then it isn't exactly fair for the consumer is it?
Secondly, the X1 Automatic was released in 1991. This is now 2014. There are X1's already being used that are 23 years old - parts and spares are readily available, which as you know with the current stock situation on TP2 and 3 brush rolls, those parts aren't available. Thirdly, you haven't owned your vacuums when they were new - how could you when you're so young? Thus, they have been either been gently used or manhandled - two very different scopes of usage - you can say what you like about Hoover but you have no idea basing your opinion on longevity because you haven't been the owner since new. | ||
| Post# 268122 , Reply# 58 2/17/2014 at 10:11 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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It wasn't fair, no but they still performed the same either way I feel they had to make money like any company so making the plastic thinner might of been their only means of making profit. If Sebo cleaners sold like Turbopower's did they probably would have to mass produce them too and if that meant lesser quality then so be it. I have found the Turbopower 2 cleaner to be one of the best built 90's cleaners I have used the only thing that is a set back on them was the back door, needless to say Hoover fixed this after Turbopower 3 came out.
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| Post# 268123 , Reply# 59 2/17/2014 at 10:13 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268126 , Reply# 60 2/17/2014 at 10:15 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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You, Chris and Alex
Actually, I can't say me and Michael know eachother all that well, so regardless of what you think of me and Alex, Michael has chipped in off his own back. Another VL member you've been rude to, I see. It's not limited to the north, I assure you. There are plenty of members I could list all over the globe, nevermind the UK, who you've done exactly the same to them as you have with Michael. People do notice, and every single time you do it, that's 1 more person - how long before all 1100 members notice, hmm?
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| Post# 268127 , Reply# 61 2/17/2014 at 10:15 (3,713 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire ) | ||
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madabouthoovers | ||
| Post# 268130 , Reply# 64 2/17/2014 at 10:33 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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and I tell you - you are far ruder than I am.
Care to give an example?
I am absolutely, 100% not denying that I've been rude to people. Absolutely not. How could I? I know what I'm like, I can be a real argumentative sod at times and I'm VERY opinionated. But I've never been rude to someone a. unprovoked and b. when they didn't deserve it. My posts above to Alex may seem rude, but I'm willing to bet you that reading them, Alex has gone "yeh, that's true...I do that sometimes". Everybody has faults, and regardless of Alex being sarcastic and opinionated at times and regardless of Michael acting a little spoilt at times, we accept that about eachother. Yes, things get heated at times, but never nasty. YOU, on the other hand, are just plain rude to people for no reason at all. Just whenever it takes your fancy. You also openly call people names in your posts, which is something I've never done. I'm also not sneaky about it. I'm not unnecessarily rude and then try to hide it. I'm not a backstabber or go bitching behind your back - I'll just do it to your face infront of everybody. I'm really not "chipping away" at your or "loving winding you up". I don't for a second think that anything I say is going to make a blind bit of difference to the way you treat other people on here. I'm just saying what the rest of us are thinking. Michael, I wouldn't say he was jealous. I'm sure madabouthoovers can fund his collecting with no problems, just like the rest of us do. I'd say "bitter" is more the appropriate word. And in light of his comments above regarding the guy who he thought had a huge ego because he was "showing off" his car, I'd say he's the biggest ego in the room, and possibly very insecure at the same time. Even in a situation like this where he's been caught out, he still thinks he's in the right and we're in the wrong. Wonder how many p!ssed off VL members it will take before he realises, hmmm? | ||
| Post# 268131 , Reply# 65 2/17/2014 at 10:34 (3,713 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire ) | ||
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to be honest I dont really buy many expensive machines I mostly purchase older ones that go for £20 on ebay, but when I do buy a modern machine (very rare) I only like high end brands like miele and sebo, I would only have dyson out of bagless machines as I dont do knockoffs. as for my "funding" I have parents just like every other 15 year old will. and yes you are jealous you shown that buy ranting about that guy who was showing his car it made you very irritated clearly a sign of jealousy.
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| Post# 268135 , Reply# 67 2/17/2014 at 10:42 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 268138 , Reply# 70 2/17/2014 at 10:45 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268139 , Reply# 71 2/17/2014 at 10:47 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Well this isn't "olden days". This isn't some class room where you can wonder around with your cain making threats to those younger than you and throwing your weight around. I think it's pretty evident that you have absolutely no weight to throw around here.
Respect works both ways, regardless of how old somebody is. Why should Michael respect you when you don't respect him? You can't possibly expect anybody to be nice and polite and respectful towards you when you don't do the same. | ||
| Post# 268140 , Reply# 72 2/17/2014 at 10:48 (3,713 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire ) | ||
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he thought he could "buy" favours from people
of course he can money is power, also its not the 1950s people dont use belts anymore and who the hell do you think you are, you have no authority over me, my parents have authority not you. and Rodger I for one would LOVE to see that slideshow im so jealous you got to live in my favourite decade not just the vacuums but the music and the clothes and everything 80s I just love.
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| Post# 268142 , Reply# 74 2/17/2014 at 10:50 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Good points there, Roger. I'm also echoing the point that I think Ryan made earlier about quality control. ALL the Sebo's were solid, whereas can you imagine how many disgruntled U2336 customers ended up with a pile of broken plastic where their vacuum once stood? Wouldn't happen at all with a Sebo.
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| Post# 268143 , Reply# 75 2/17/2014 at 10:52 (3,713 days old) by madabouthoovers () | ||
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Dear oh dear Kirbylover - teddy throwing again? Don't give it out then if you don't like hearing the home truths in return, much as how turbo500 thinks he's "teaching" me Oh, and Turby, its CANE not Cain. 
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| Post# 268144 , Reply# 76 2/17/2014 at 10:52 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Alex, if we were in a board room, you'd be asked to go and research your information again because of being an embarrassment to the company.
The only thing the Hoover TP2/3 has in common with the SEBO X1/4 is that they are both bagged uprights. That's all they have in common. Why? Because SEBO are a commercial company. Hoover are not and they have never made anything as close to the Turbopower in terms of what that design offered to the UK domestic market. Oh there was that American built upright for UK commercial markets but it never stayed around long enough for mass sales compared to the heavy metal based soft bagged uprights for the UK market. Thus SEBO is built better. You can keep going on and on and on about how well made your Hoover vacuums are - but at the end of the day Alex - when a bag door splits because of a piston valve problem, not to mention other problems like cracked sole plates, height adjusters breaking and other problems with the TP2/3, about the only thing that I can think of that goes on and on is that those models are superior to the model that replaced them - the Purepower. Hoover have been pulled up because of design problems from the start or concept from their vacuums - you only have to look at The One to realise that. SEBO and Miele are completely different - they spend a lot more time at the design stage testing things rather than putting on a new dress of old components - and then not testing it thoroughly for domestic use until problems resurface and Hoover have to either recall or do another "improved" model. Then there was the Permabag - a leaking dust box that shouldn't have leaked, but did. If it was such a success, it would still be on sale today! | ||
| Post# 268145 , Reply# 77 2/17/2014 at 10:54 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Whats all this "been caught out" crap about?
being caught out for exactly what you are, despite your efforts to cover your tracks.
I haven't brought anything out - it's all there festering anyway, as is perfectly evident by your random outbursts of rudeness to other members for no reason at all. "Don't give it out then if you don't like hearing the home truths in return" Again, take your own advice. | ||
| Post# 268146 , Reply# 78 2/17/2014 at 10:54 (3,713 days old) by madabouthoovers () | ||
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You can't possibly expect anybody to be nice and polite Yes that's very true Turbo500 - that's why I'm not being polite to you, as never once have you been polite to me - only superior and pretentious. Pot calling the kettle black springs to mind. | ||
| Post# 268147 , Reply# 79 2/17/2014 at 10:55 (3,713 days old) by madabouthoovers () | ||
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being caught out for exactly what you are And what exactly am I then Turbo500? Pray tell? | ||
| Post# 268148 , Reply# 80 2/17/2014 at 10:55 (3,713 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire ) | ||
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Dear oh dear Kirbylover - teddy throwing again? | ||
| Post# 268150 , Reply# 81 2/17/2014 at 11:00 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Pray tell? | ||
| Post# 268151 , Reply# 82 2/17/2014 at 11:00 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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now leave it, in the midst of this we are having a nice disc | ||
| Post# 268152 , Reply# 83 2/17/2014 at 11:01 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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ANYWAY, to try and pull this thread back...
I sent SEBO UK a message regarding the metal sole plate on the X4. SEBO add the metal bit because apparently it makes the upright easier to push on carpets... So for those who perhaps require heavier "deep down" dirt, try and remove the silver plate and see if it makes a difference... | ||
| Post# 268156 , Reply# 86 2/17/2014 at 11:06 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I respect your views Roger. It would certainly be interesting to see a slide show of the photos. I have been told to move on and use cleaners that are modern and move with the times. But I can't I like the old cleaners I get satisfaction from using them. Wondering what sort of a life they have had, how many miles they have travelled and how many full dust bags they collected over the years. I also love the fact that hose suction isn't as strong and the cleaners actually came with a comprehensive tool set. These old cleaners were made right here in the UK which is another reason I like them. Non of this I get from using a new up to date cleaner, they do nothing for me.
Am I also drawing a conclusion of which you are pointing out that the Sebo is a superior built cleaner to the so called "it was made to last" cleaners they made 20, 30 to 40 years ago? | ||
| Post# 268159 , Reply# 88 2/17/2014 at 11:12 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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If Turbo500 hadn't have intervened | ||
| Post# 268160 , Reply# 89 2/17/2014 at 11:14 (3,713 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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Right then.
Thanks everyone for your input, whatever it was. This is my first thread so its nice to get to meet people, even if this one has escalated into name calling :/ As regards build quality, in my personal opinion, I think sebo is slightly better. Taking into account design and build quality, sebo I definitely think is better. Their brushrools are much easier to get to (much is an understatement). Miele's look more sophisticated but my s7 I thought in some places felt a bit cheap. The grey plastic was very soft and one of the switches on mine broke within 2 hours of me having it. I know some vacuum retailers (independent ones) have stopped selling Mieles due to a combination of them being difficult to work on and customers returning then. GoVaccum on youtube have said just this. Although, miele to a more diverse canister range. However, I have found miele bags to be better than sebo ones. Much thicker and heavier duty. You cant go wrong with neither of them really, I just prefer sebo. These are properly built alternatives to mainstream Chinese built rubbish we are now so used to. Yes there are some better built Chinese made vacuums but on the whole, I think we have gone backwards in quality in not only vacuums but a lot of other household appliances since manufacturing has moved over seas. Anyways, that's another story for another time. | ||
| Post# 268162 , Reply# 91 2/17/2014 at 11:21 (3,713 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Hi Ollie,
I agree about the Sebo brushroll being easier to access. Infact, I've found Sebo uprights to be far easier to work on in general than the S7. A friend of mine works in a vacuum shop and was saying on our Facebook group that the S7 is a pain to work on, and the motor has to be removed just to replace the handle release mechanism. Because the Sebo was originally a commercial cleaner, it's designed so that the user can carry out any minor repairs themselves with little to no down-time on the machine, and this of course saves having to send the cleaner off to be repaired. I do agree about the Miele bags being better quality, but I do think that the Sebo bags are better value. Sebo have also recently brought out synthetic dust bags for the X series, but I've not tried them out yet (still working my way through a box of paper bags and wishing they'd get a bloody move on and fill up so I can buy some new ones, LOL - Alex, don't say a word :P). Ryan might be able to give you some more info about those as he originally told us all about the new bags. They are on sebo.co.uk if you want to go hunting through :). Chris | ||
| Post# 268164 , Reply# 93 2/17/2014 at 11:34 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well the S7 isn't a commercial vacuum cleaner. Infact Miele's largest market is the U.S - they had previously built "Miele badged" uprights under Panasonic for sale in the U.S only - and the S7 was designed with the U.S in mind, hence the larger size of it and its associated bulk.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - Miele know that they need a "mid size" upright but they also know that if they did one, it could snatch sales away from their cylinder vacuums, one reason alone to why they don't produce cylinder vacuums with cord lengths bigger than 6.5 metres. Those in the market for bigger lengths have to settle for Henry, SEBO's D series or Bosch BSGL5 series. I am sure in time, Miele may well revisit their old S160 stick vacs and update them. The "Alternative" wasn't a good design IMHO but it is close enough to what Miele could do in the mid 1990s etc with an upright design for Europe and you could add an air driven turbo brush floor head on it. Then came the "D'Art," which is really not an upright as it lacks a brush roll and no additional parts can be added to it from the main floor head unless you consider the hose and associated parts, thus similar processes with Vorwerk. I like the Miele stick vac but it needs updating and an electric PN could be added to it for sale in the UK but Miele won't do it. Alex I have no idea what you are on about. If the Turbopower 2 and 3 were THAT successful, why are there no brush roll parts available for it? Clearly if it was that important a big seller for the company, you'd have "limitless parts" available. As for it lasting 20 to 30 years, well it can't if the MOST important part that eventually wears out ISN'T AVAILABLE TO BUY ANY MORE!! | ||
| Post# 268165 , Reply# 94 2/17/2014 at 11:37 (3,713 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 268166 , Reply# 95 2/17/2014 at 11:39 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 268187 , Reply# 96 2/17/2014 at 13:09 (3,713 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR) | ||
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carpet type dictates need for control over adjustment What carpet types require manual or fancy adjustment? If you have medium cut pile like what is used in most carpet cleaning tests, is it really needed? | ||
| Post# 268196 , Reply# 97 2/17/2014 at 13:26 (3,713 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
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I definitely agree with the sebo bags being better value. They work out at about £1.10 per bag which is amazing to be honest. Also the flap that goes over the bags on the sebo's and a few other vacuum manufacturer's bags (numatic for example) is better that miele design as I found with my s7, the dirt accumulate around the port where the dirt goes in and makes the opening thick, meaning the flap doesn't close properly, because its on the inside. Anyways, its a small minor thing, but I definitely think sebos are that little bit more durable and certainly easier to work on. But I do live mieles sophisticated design.
I also like the fact sebo give you the option of a soft and firm bristle brush roller. | ||
| Post# 268203 , Reply# 98 2/17/2014 at 13:58 (3,713 days old) by ultraperformer (Derbyshire, UK, Europe) | ||
We only have two carpeted rooms in our house the rest are a combination of various hard floor types, one room has a low pile carpet the other a new very thick luxurious carpet, the AEG Nimble with it's fixed position head actually ploughs into the new carpet and it's very hard to push, it also pulled some fibres, it's great on the low pile carpet really grooms the pile. I'm resigned to cleaning this new carpet with cylinders with Turbo heads at the moment but I worry the deep down dirt is not being removed.
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| Post# 268212 , Reply# 99 2/17/2014 at 15:33 (3,713 days old) by kenkart () | ||
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BRUSHROLL .. The brushroll on the 1950s Singers and the f-a- 12 Westinghouse, adjusted automaticallt, the brush actually floated.. | ||
| Post# 268228 , Reply# 100 2/17/2014 at 16:40 (3,713 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Not all homes have the same carpet running through the home, so if you have different carpet textures I guess that's the call for adjustment.
As the owner of both the manual dial Felix and the X1, I find the Felix is great for most of my carpet - and I have the same carpet running through the whole of my home - but sometimes I just prefer the lighter action of the auto adjusting sensor head on the X1. | ||
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Post# 268392 , Reply# 101 2/18/2014 at 15:53 (3,712 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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Give me a 4 position | ||
| Post# 268397 , Reply# 102 2/18/2014 at 16:00 (3,712 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 268407 , Reply# 103 2/18/2014 at 17:30 (3,712 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Post# 268458 , Reply# 104 2/18/2014 at 22:35 (3,712 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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Yes, all of the older Convertibles have a beater bar.
I usually use attachments for hardwood floors (they made a great floor brush). But, if you have good, unworn brushes, THEY touch the floor, the beater bar doesn't strike the surface. Hundreds of vacuums... 11 room house, never a problem here. You owner's manual tells you to never set the vacuum cleaner on 'low" when using it on hard surfaces. Always put it on "medium". If/when I do, if I turn the cleaner off ON the hardwood floors, I hear the brushes sweeping the floor on the slowdown. I hope this helps.
John. | ||
| Post# 268467 , Reply# 105 2/19/2014 at 01:58 (3,712 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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