Thread Number: 23775
Sebo Airbelt K3 Vulcano - Full Review and Pictures
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Post# 266260   2/5/2014 at 13:42 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Today the other of my ordered vacs this month arrived by courier - The very quirky Sebo K3 Airbelt Vulcano. This is a member of the K series of canisters which Sebo intend to be  direct competitors to the Miele S6 and former S4 Range.

 

The machine cost £190 from the seller in the link below. I had the last one in stock, and they do not sell many of these either.

 

The Vulcano is the second from TOL model in the K range, with the K1, K1 Komfort, and K1 Pet being below it, and the K3 Premium with electric power nozzle being above it. The K range has been out a fair few years now, and in the mid 00's, base models appeared in the Argos catalogues, along with Sebo's X1.1 model.

 

There is not much publicity about this range, and searches on K3 Vulcano do not reveal many results, especially in the UK. Indeed, even on Vacuumland the K3 Vulcano is mentioned only very rarely. I have used this vac today and can now be in a position to describe its features and give my humble opinion of it, when compared to Miele's S6 model the S6220 that I own. It cannot be compared to the S8 range as the larger Sebo D Range is the direct competitor to that range.

 

The K3 Vulcano comes with a 3 litre fabric dustbag which is not as good quality as the comparable 3.5L Miele Hyclean FJM bags, but is half the price. The access to the dustbag is from the bottom of the K3, as compared to the lid of the S6. It has a light that glows up orange when the K3 detects a restriction in airflow, and also a bypass relief valve.

 

The K3 Vulcano comes in a striking orange and browny red colourway, and has replaceable HEPA filters, one for the pre-motor and one for the Post motor which give it true S-Class hospital grade filtration. These filters come as a service pack from Sebo, and generally need replacing every 16 bags used, which is less often than Miele recommend for their S6 range.

 

It comes with an electric hose and slider control on the handle to vary the suction from 0 to 100%. The hose is fixed at the vacuum cleaner connection end and does not swivel. It will swivel at the handle end, and as commented on by sebo_fan, is slightly more unwieldy than a non electrified hose. I find it better to store the cleaner with the hose detached, as I feel it puts strain on the floorhead connector, where it slides into the back of the cleaner housing. This is not a problem though as I have a suitable place to store the hose, and when in use, I can cope with its limits. Its a small sacrifice to make for the flexibility of having a handle mounted motor control.

When plugged in, and the main On'Off knob pressed, the K3 is put into standby mode, and the bag full lamp glows up green. This then puts the machine at the control of the handle slider, much like the Sebo Felix. The slider is infinitely variable unlike other brands which only offer limited settings for motor speed. No member of the Miele S6 family come with this facility.

The status light glows green all the time the machine is switched on. When the vac detects a full bag or blockage, it lights up a second LED that makes the status light glow green and orange, and I would have expected it to turn the green light off and just glow orange, but it doesn't do this.

 

The Floorheads are shown in pictures below, and the K3 features the Deluxe Kombi which is the most comprehensive looking head I have ever seen, with very good attention to detail, and 4 wheels. It also features the Turbo Komfort Turbobrush, similar to Miele's Turbo brush supplied on their canister range. It also includes a dusting brush which attaches to the tube, and crevice/upholstery tool which fit on the machine itself. This is because lower models in the K range do not come with the dusting brush as standard. One limitation is that the upholstery tool has to be connected to the crevice tool before it can be connected to the handle or wand, this is so that the upholstery tool can be shaped to fit flush to the top of the machine.

 

The Wand/Tube is a telescopic, half metal, half plastic affair, which is lighter than the Miele tube, but not quite as good quality in my opinion. It is not electrified, but features a clip halfway down to clip a cable to if using a power nozzle, for which there is a socket provided on the rear of the handle assembly. This socket has been heavily criticised for being an unreliable weak point when the electric nozzle is used, however this is not a problem for the Vulcano if the power nozzle is not purchased for use with it.

 

The Machine expels its exhaust air via a filter located on top of the machine (see pic) through its orange, spandex/lycra Airbelt, which is replaceable if it gets damaged - but at a high cost, so it will pay to look after this machine.

It has 3 good quality castor wheels, with one attached to the bag door itself, and moves freely across all surfaces. It is about the same weight as the S6, but the handle is smaller, due to the offset hose socket, which makes the machine move slightly skewed when pulling it along, but this is not really much of a problem as the Airbelt protects the vac and the furniture from contact damage.

 

My verdict is that this is a very good quality machine, very quirky with a colour scheme that may not appeal to some - you will either love or hate the colour scheme, and I love it, as I love quirky colours in my vacs. I like the design and also the Airbelt feature. I think the wand is lighter than the Miele S6 range, but has a weaker joint where fixing the wand to the machine, so care will need to be taken not to shear the parking bracket off the back of the floorheads, or damaging the parking slots.

The hose I do find more limiting in movement than that of the S6, but am prepared to accept this as I wanted the handle operation, which is a more convenient feature that the S6 does not have, so its a case of give and take a little here. Another point is that the vac cannot have its power varied on the machine itself, unlike the lower models, on which the power knob can be turned to vary the power.

Tool storage is better than the S6, as at least  2 tools store on the machine, and the wand mounted dusting brush is not as obtrusive as the Miele tool caddy.

 

All in all, the Sebo K3 Airbelt Vulcano is a very good alternative to the Miele S6 range, and has some good features lacking from the S6, but I feel that the quality of the Sebo machine itself is actually slightly higher than the S6, and the tools are on a par quality wise. The one area I feel the S6 is better is in the cord rewind facility which is a tug operation at full cable reel deployment on the Sebo, much like the Bosch and Siemens machines, but a pedal control on the S6 which can be used regardless of whether all the cable is deployed from the cable reel.

 

My final verdict is that I would give the Sebo Airbelt K3 Vulcano a score of 9/10, with the lost point due solely to the lack of a cable rewind mechanism pedal. I cannot fault the quality of build - it is typically well engineered by a very reliable German company.

 

I would also give the Miele S6 a score of 9/10, and this is only because it does not offer the facilty of handle control. It is also excellent quality German engineering - but a lot more popular than the Sebo K series, solely due to the fact that its more widely available, and maybe not such a quirky design as the K series.

 

Here comes the Pics:

 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK



This post was last edited 02/05/2014 at 14:10
Post# 266261 , Reply# 1   2/5/2014 at 13:43 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Side View showing parking position


Post# 266262 , Reply# 2   2/5/2014 at 13:45 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Electric hose in "parked" position:


Post# 266263 , Reply# 3   2/5/2014 at 13:45 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Handle vario control slider:


Post# 266264 , Reply# 4   2/5/2014 at 13:46 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Deluxe Kombi floorhead:


Post# 266265 , Reply# 5   2/5/2014 at 13:47 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Underside of Deluxe Kombi floorhead:


Post# 266266 , Reply# 6   2/5/2014 at 13:49 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Bag door opened showing 3 litre fabric Sebo Dustbag. The bag door cannot be closed without a bag in position:


Post# 266268 , Reply# 7   2/5/2014 at 13:50 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The empty bag compartment showing the red hospital grade pre-motor filter cartridge in position


Post# 266269 , Reply# 8   2/5/2014 at 13:53 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Here we see the post motor filter removed from its slot in the top of the machine You can see the bag full / Status indicator light just between the on/off knob and the filter compartment:


Post# 266270 , Reply# 9   2/5/2014 at 13:54 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

This is the wand tube retracted with the Dusting brush in its holder in the recommended position on the wand. Lower models in the K range do not come with this brush or holder:


Post# 266271 , Reply# 10   2/5/2014 at 13:56 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Showing the rear of the machine with the Crevice tool attached to the upholstery brush. The crevice tool slots into the hole in the top left corner of the machine's base:


Post# 266272 , Reply# 11   2/5/2014 at 13:57 (3,731 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Good Choice Steve! Glad you like your new machines!

Post# 266273 , Reply# 12   2/5/2014 at 13:59 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

And the final picture showing the electric hose socket, which allows the hose to be used with a power nozzle if one is purchased for the machine, and also allows for remote handle operation of the machine. This end of the hose connector does not allow swivel or twisting of the hose on this machine:


Post# 266287 , Reply# 13   2/5/2014 at 14:58 (3,731 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

It looks like the inlet for the pre-motor filter is pretty small - how's the airflow overall?

Post# 266311 , Reply# 14   2/5/2014 at 15:44 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The airflow is very good - there is a by-pass relief valve that you can hear opening in the machine if you turn up  the suction too high on carpets, this also stops the Kombi head being too hard to push across the carpet. I do find that with the Kombi head, I can push it a lot easier over carpet than with the standard Miele head, due to it having 4 wheels on it, but if the suction is turned up too high, rather than creating a vacuum in the machine and rooting the floorhead to the carpet, the py-pass valve opens and releases the vacuum build up - this is also good for the motor, and Miele canisters don't have a bypass valve, so making them susceptible to being overheated by a blockage or a full bag.

The premotor filter is like a conical shaped cage that has a large surface area that pushes into the recess in the bag housing - here is what it looks like removed:


Post# 266314 , Reply# 15   2/5/2014 at 15:48 (3,731 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The wheeled Kombi head is the best that I have ever used on carpet - it glides across the carpet as easily as the Turbobrush. It feels like it isn't doing as much as when using a standard Miele floorhead, due to it gripping the carpet less, but appears to clean just as well, whilst being easier to move, even on higher power than the Miele. Maybe it has more bleed paths that the Miele, but it feels a lot easier to use on short pile carpet.

 

I have also now put a review of this superb vac on Dooyoo:



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK



This post was last edited 02/05/2014 at 18:12
Post# 266384 , Reply# 16   2/6/2014 at 04:30 (3,730 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Have one so similar to this-A K3 machine-mine was special sale from the vac place in my area-the hose from my C3 machine fits and works on my K3 one.Don't use the worthless crevice and upolstery tool combo-It chokes off the powerful airflow of this machine.Fortunately other tools I have fit-just leave the orig tools on the machine.The one I have is of course lower wattage since it runs from 120V US power.I beleive mine is 9A @120V.Its a nice little vacuum-GREAT companion to an upright.I was able to get mine at a low price since its orig hose was missing along with the powernozzle tool.The K3 didn't become popular in my area.

Post# 266390 , Reply# 17   2/6/2014 at 07:35 (3,730 days old) by ultraperformer (Derbyshire, UK, Europe)        

ultraperformer's profile picture
It reminds me of a Polti Steam cleaner lol

Post# 266418 , Reply# 18   2/6/2014 at 12:14 (3,730 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Excellent analysis.

A few things though - the floor heads will never shear off either the parking slots on the machine body - I've had my K3 and K1s for a few years now and they are indestructible where the plastic is concerned.

The Deluxe suction only floor head was primarily designed for the Sebo Felix - other Felix models known as "Felix Kombi" or the commercial "Dart Kombi" are not sold in the UK, but are available elsewhere. Since then that floor head has seen service on the K1 Eco/Cappuccino and D series.

it is, in my opinion, the ONLY floor head on the market that allows the suction tube to lie flat without having to turn your hand to ensure the floor head stays on carpet if going left or right. It is however a lot heavier and won't suit all.

The K3 Vulcano however came out in 2006 - the Miele S4210 dates back as early as 2004. Thus the K3 Vulcano is slightly newer than the S4 and had no real competitor due to its spec or power - it was the first K series to feature the 2100 watt motor before other models like the K1 Komfort was put out in a darker blue colour. Miele's original S4/S4210 had 1800 watts power and thus on power ratings alone, the 1800 watt K series (including the original K3 Premium which now has 2100 watts compared to the 1800 watt model I own) was thus the closest on "paper" where specs are concerned.

I quite like the T shaped tool and crevice tool combo - it eliminates a lot of fuss and gives you instant reach and cleaning function in one. It won't choke if you use it the way you're supposed to - lower variable power rather than continually using the highest power.

Like the Felix, I find that i don't have to use the highest power all the time for a good clean - but then I also find that with Miele. I very rarely have to use either vacuum's highest setting for an efficient, quick and fast clean up.


Post# 266424 , Reply# 19   2/6/2014 at 13:23 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

sebo_fan - in another post, you say that tha K range is now 17 years old - is that really the case? If so, its as old as the Purepower.

But then, I do favour companies who don't forever keep changing models every 5 minutes (cue - Dyson)

And the X4 is based on a design that dates right back to 1991, so it is as old as the Kirby G series.

One thing I have noticed now about Sebo is that their products are so easy to push across the carpet - it is deceptive, as it gives the feeling they are not really doing anything - but feeling the suction power at the end of the hose, its there, as strong as ever.

With the Miele S8, which is 2200W on full power, it gets hard to push the suction only allteq head if I go on anything over the second lowest power setting, however, on the K3, its easy to push the Deleuxe Kombi head over carpet, even at full power of 2100W.

Could the relief pressure valve on my K3 be opening too soon, as on full power it makes a kind of farting sound coming from the main body of the machine, so I turn the power down a bit.


Post# 266425 , Reply# 20   2/6/2014 at 13:33 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Oh and I finally won a Sebo mini turbo tool on Ebay the other day for £9.50, in excellent condition - it went for so little as the seller listed it as a Sebo Dart power tool, so some Sebo owners might have thought it wouldn't fit their models, as the Dart was the commercial version of the Felix, and is less well known. Bargain. The best things always come to those who wait, and I was determined I wouldn't pay Sebo £35 for a new mini turbo brush.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK on eBay

Post# 266462 , Reply# 21   2/6/2014 at 16:40 (3,730 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Great thread Madabouthoovers and pictures too. Do like the SEBO K series and in particular this model in the range great colour scheme. Hope you enjoy using it and meets your expectations! I need to get a turbo brush for my Felix like you say £35 is a little high glad you got a bargain!

How's the full size turbo head? Does it groom and clean carpets well?


Post# 266463 , Reply# 22   2/6/2014 at 16:46 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

In all honesty I haven't used the floor turbo brush on the K3 yet, as I am so pleased with the performance of the Deluxe Kombi straight suction head. I have never used such a wonderful floorhead as this, and its a breeze to push it around the carpet. Combined with the handle operated suction slider, this is a totally fantastic cleaner. This range might be old fashioned, but its very understated. I will use the Turbo brush in due course though, and I imagine it will be just as pleasurable to use as the Miele version.


Post# 266467 , Reply# 23   2/6/2014 at 16:59 (3,730 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Oh well done on the mini turbo brush there!

I use the main size Turbo brush on my D2 Total and by god it is powerful - but lightweight to push. The standard SEBO floorhead that comes with the D2 is a chore to push when full power is max'd - a bit like your Miele. The Deluxe floor head you have with your K3 isn't designed to be such an effort to push on the highest speed - you'll realise that in time that its all down to the fact that the floor plate is mega thin and thus doesn't require that much of an effort.

HOWEVER, as much as I like the design, I still find the Deluxe version to be too heavy and the side buttons to change up to hard floor and back again are often too stiff for their own good. Old review on Dooyoo:


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK


Post# 266471 , Reply# 24   2/6/2014 at 17:11 (3,730 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Let me know how you get on when you do use the turbo head be interested how you get on it with it. The Deluxe Kombi head does look a very good tool. Looks similar to the Deluxe Parquet head I got with my Felix which I love using on hard floors. Glad your liking and getting in ok with the Deluxe Kombi head. Be useful to have the Deluxe Kombi head for my Felix. Couldn't agree more I personally think all the range of SEBO vacuums are understated. Yes they may appear old fashioned but they are easy and simple to use and maintain. They are what they are simply an effective vacuum cleaner as it should be.

Post# 266472 , Reply# 25   2/6/2014 at 17:13 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Jon - you ought to fill in your member profile, so we know what Sebo's you've got  - its a bit anonymous at the moment.

 

Sebo_fan - I find the side buttons on the Kombi head odd too, but kicking them with the side of my shoe I find does the trick when going from the lino on the kitchen floor to the carpet in the lounge, and this head also doesn't suck the lino up to the nozzle and block the suction like many other nozzles - even used on carpet mode, as I can instantly lower the suction power when going onto the lino floor. Having the handle mounted suction slide is just SO convenient!


Post# 266473 , Reply# 26   2/6/2014 at 17:18 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Jon, what I like most about the deluxe kombi head is that it only has the brush strip behind the air inlet channel, so it doesn't push large dirt like cat litter in front of it on hard floors like other heads do and nor does it get the problem with cat hair build up on the front brush strip like other conventional suction only heads (ie, they snowplough large debris in front of them). Its a very well thought out head.


Post# 266474 , Reply# 27   2/6/2014 at 17:18 (3,730 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
I will do.

Post# 266482 , Reply# 28   2/6/2014 at 17:44 (3,730 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
As you will see from my video on You tube, the Deluxe Kombi on the D2 (or any SEBO cylinder infact) constantly flips down when requiring to go from one rug to another. It isn't annoying as such but you'd never get that with a conventional floor head. That's the compromise you have to make on the basis that the floor head will go flat without having to turn your wrist.






Post# 266483 , Reply# 29   2/6/2014 at 17:51 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

What do you mean by "constantly flips down"?


Post# 266489 , Reply# 30   2/6/2014 at 18:29 (3,730 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
When going from one surface to another the floor head will flop downwards before it rests on the floor it is going to clean. Even going over cords, this happens.

Post# 266491 , Reply# 31   2/6/2014 at 18:53 (3,730 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Ah, right - I thought you meant that it was faulty and the brush flipped down by itself

I used a Karcher canister vac at my last job where the cheapo floorhead kept popping the brush back in by itself when using it on hard floors - it was that worn all the metal on the base of it had massive wear holes in it from being used on hard floors with the brush retracted. As soon as you pressed the pedal down to push down the brush, within a few seconds of use, it would pop itself back again. Useless machine. They started buying Karchers after the Henry HVR200A's kept packing up prematurely - and we know the reasons why that is now too, with the Henry's autosave boards failing.

Good old Sebo eh - still plodding along, stalwart and reliable as ever!


Post# 266559 , Reply# 32   2/7/2014 at 09:34 (3,729 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Apologies - the SEBO K series was launched in 2002. Not 17 years old then, but rather 12 years old this year...The Professional G was also launched the same year.

The thing to remember is that as a brand, SEBO don't go in for as much style as it does for durability and functionality - these are two phrases that jump up every time with a SEBO product and yet it all seems to stem from their, yet again commercial status. I don't think SEBO would be the company they are today had they not entered the commercial field to begin with and remained there.

Same with Numatic - Numatic have a lot to thank for the commercial industry. A few consumers and collectors tend to forget that as not all brands in the commercial industry are good but for those who are, they don't tend to change the basic "things that work" in terms of components that go on and on, particularly on a day to day basis which in a domestic setting is entirely different - I bet half of the cheap bagless uprights that are on sale today can't withstand 1000 hours of continual use in one go.

Thus, there's a lot to be said for appliances like vacuums that are made to withstand daily use, even if they are owned by collectors that expect longevity stemmed from the more durable, well built vintage classics.


Post# 266597 , Reply# 33   2/7/2014 at 14:55 (3,729 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The problem is nowadays, its all about profit and selling as many units as possible, at the lowest price, which a company wont do if it builds vacs to last - after all, who would buy a new vac if the old one was still working?

Looking at all the plasticavs that get thrown out within 2 years of being bought - this is very good news for Vax, and Dyson, as most of these owners will be back again to buy another vac, and so the cycle goes on.

Customer buys a Vax for £70. Customer uses Vax for 12 months without any maintenance. Vax motor burns out. Customer takes Vax to the tip. Old Vax is recycled. Customer goes to Argos and buys another £70 Vax, and the cycle repeats, over and over.

Bosses at Vax rub their hands together and set about designing more new looking Vax cleaners to keep customers coming back for more.

Also apply this to Dyson, but their vacs must last a Customer 5 years, so must be 5 times dearer than a £70 Vax which is only designed to last 1 year.

Vax might offer 2 or 6 year warranties, but they also stipulate that unless you register your warranty within 30 days of purchase, it voids itself, so how many people do you think actually do this and register? Exactly. So when said Vax burns out atfter 1 year, customer who doesn't register or loses receipt says, oh what the hell, and its off to Argos again.

 

Lets also then think about the backhanders. Dyson pays Currys a big bung to favour his cleaners. Vax pays Argos the same. Whose vacs do you think will then feature, and sell the highest in these stores?

Note that Sebo are now no longer stocked by Currys. Except the K1 Komfort - which as you might also notice is always out of stock. I wonder why that is? Sebo not prepared to pay Currys enough to feature their vacs? or perhaps Dyson paying Currys to def out Sebo?

 

There is so much corruption and greed in the domestic appliance market now that its getting harder to obtain a Sebo without having to go online, as no local stores will stock them.


Post# 266615 , Reply# 34   2/7/2014 at 18:32 (3,729 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
A few good points however, a few far fetched too!

sebo_fan's profile picture
The thing is though you're forgetting, when you see so many cheap vacs being thrown out, people aren't repairing them when they are so cheap to buy in the first place and inherently, people become lazy, even with big name vacuums including Dyson!

You can blame who you like when it comes to brands, but ideally speaking the first "wave" of cheap appliances came in at first with the humble toaster. Yours truly had a Hinari "Lifestyle" toaster for the best part of 15 years before it conked out. It did what it promised, but was a horrid piece of cheap plastic to look at but came with a cool wall design and slip out tray compared to many a "traditional" big name brand such as Philips who offered the same but three times the price of and featured a screwed toaster plate on the base and no cool wall. Only difference with SDA's is that they don't come with long warranties.

Naturally then and thereafter it affects everything these days when it comes to appliances. You keep banging on about Vax's limited warranty - well there are other brands who stipulate the same! My expensive £300 Panasonic combo oven had to be registered in 20 days before the limited "bonus" of a 5 year guarantee could be sent away and recorded.

Samsung and Bosch are also known for limited date purchases on warranties too and they don't offer the lengthy warranties on ALL appliances.

The premium "Miele" brand only offer 1 or 2 years warranty on their vacuums if you're lucky. By the time you've already shelled out a lot of money for the machines themselves and then if you have to, upgrade the filters, you're then offered an extra 10 years if you want on your Miele vacuum (if it is "the chosen one") at another payout. When is it going to stop??

Let those large franchises sell whatever the heck they want - its not as if the consumer HAS to shop at those franchises anyway! Thanks to something called enterprise, the consumer these days has a much wider choice before the Internet came along!

Reading between the lines here, you're obviously wondering why SEBO aren't more commonplace. Well, they've always been a premium company and as you know Currys, Argos and Tesco are hardly a premium company for aspiring people to go to. I'm not a snob but I've realised that those franchises will never sell an ARCAM sound system any less to the full SEBO range.

Argos, Currys and Tesco did sell SEBO at some point but there's been little demand for it - it has ZILCH to do with what company pays who etc. Rather, it is the other way around - all these franchises BUY IN from the brands on the products - you'd learn about this if you have ever watched The Apprentice and where some of the tasks have been to sell a product to Argos and likewise chain stores.



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