Thread Number: 23602
Question on Windsor Vacuums
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Post# 264298   1/20/2014 at 22:46 (3,719 days old) by cap10323 ()        

Hi all, Cap10323 from YouTube again.

I last posted about being given a Hoover Concept 2, which ironically enough. 4 days after I posted that.. Blew the motor.. What fun.. Kept the DustBuster anyway though, So not a total loss..

Moving on.. Since then I had been given a Kenmore Progressive bagless machine.. It works pretty well and appears to be based on a Panasonic design.. However, The filtration is Abysmal... Like dangerously bad!

So I have decided to stop using it and buy a new/good used vacuum..

I really like Windsor Sensor machines, Several of my friends own them and they work great, They are also exceedingly well made and very tough.. Which is a must for me as I tend to abuse things.


However, They cost an arm and a leg.. I went to my local vacuum shop and took a look at some of the lower priced Sebo machines they had there.. Which appear to be close replicas of the Windsor machines.. Although the plastic seems much cheeper and the Owner of the vacuum store says they don't last nearly as long as the Windsors..


My Question goes as follows, does anyone know of a good place to buy Windsor machines Used/refurbished? I don't care if they are used/refurbished.. Not having a new vacuum doesn't bother me in the slightest..

All I'm saying is, I don't really feel like shelling out $600 for a vacuum cleaner..

Cheers all,
And sorry for long winded post.

Cap10323


Post# 264306 , Reply# 1   1/21/2014 at 00:30 (3,719 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
You could check eBay. Also did you check all vacuum shops in your area to see if they have any refurbished Sebos and Windsors? I find these machines to be more commonplace to hotels and commercial environments than the average consumer home. But many businesses will have them beaten to the ground unworthy of repair before they buy a new one. They're not usually traded in used from a business.

I might also recommend, for an excellent cleaner, excellent filtration, and high quality with bonus of being built in America looking at Riccar and Simplicity. They have a variety of different machines with to fit different budgets and cleaning needs. All high quality built with metal base plates, sealed systems. Powerful, quiet, easy to use designs!!

I personally have experienced higher cleaning performance with Riccar and Simplicity over a Sebo/ Windsor. I think Sebo does ok for commercial grade low pile but not as good in a home with variety of surfaces. Just my experience.


Post# 264313 , Reply# 2   1/21/2014 at 07:36 (3,718 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

The Sebo and Windsor uprights are actually made by the same folks (Sebo), though yeah, the plastic on the commercial models is probably higher-grade than that in the home models.

You might look on eBay if your local vacuum shops and thrift stores don't have anything useful. Also, as recommended above, consider looking at Riccar/Simplicity, or Miele - both are excellent (though I think the Miele S7 upright is a bit bulky and cumbersome and not as well-built as it should be - but it performs *very* well.)


Post# 264316 , Reply# 3   1/21/2014 at 09:05 (3,718 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Try Craigslist - this seems to be quite popular in the U.S where Windsor uprights are posted. Second hand of course. Either that or one of the U.S members might help you.

Post# 264318 , Reply# 4   1/21/2014 at 09:13 (3,718 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
I have a Versamatic I would sell you for $80 plus shipping

stricklybojack's profile picture
It's been thoroughly cleaned, has a generic cord plug replacement, stands fine but does not lock itself upright. I would include plenty of extra bags (which in this pic i am using the bungie cord to fasten my bag supply to the rear of the machine). The power cord is nicked up but well taped. All the indicator lights work fine as i recall. This machine is largely made of very heavy industrial grade plastic so shipping could be cost prohibitive.
I cleaned up the machine (dishwasher) and have used it little since simply because so many other machines have kept me busy and i only get back to California on occasion. Which brings up the final consideration, i won't be back there until mid June.
i will happily consider trades too.
These Sebo/Windsor machines are commonly used but somewhat rarely found, go figure...


Post# 264321 , Reply# 5   1/21/2014 at 09:36 (3,718 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
We used to have one like that at work, great machine. Nice sound too.

Post# 264327 , Reply# 6   1/21/2014 at 10:06 (3,718 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The owner is right about the SEBO range in a way - they're more dedicated for home use rather than commercial, which is why SEBO still produce the older X series based "G" upright in other parts of the world. But they're both pretty durable regardless - just a softer edge on the bin and hood. Underneath there's virtually no difference - both have metal kick plates BUT the SEBO X4 has more suction power.

Post# 264335 , Reply# 7   1/21/2014 at 11:06 (3,718 days old) by cap10323 ()        
General ramblings

Thanks BoJack, I'll keep that in Mind! The Versamatics look nice.. But I've used many Sensor machines and really liked them... I've never even seen a versamatic in person.. So I have no idea what they are like..

I have been checking Craigslist regularly.. I actually found a versamatic in decent shape for $150, and a Sensor which was brand new and some delusional individual was trying to get $800 for it.. (They ain't that much new Mate!)

That Riccar Canister is pretty nice, Although I am not really looking for a canister as I already own an older Hoover "PortaPower" Which I use all the time and works fine for my needs..

Thanks again
Cap10323


Post# 264342 , Reply# 8   1/21/2014 at 12:26 (3,718 days old) by cap10323 ()        

This one is on Ebay At the moment.. He says it's refurbished.. I Highly doubt that.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO cap10323's LINK on eBay


Post# 264355 , Reply# 9   1/21/2014 at 13:02 (3,718 days old) by Chris1234567897 ()        
I got one

I actually got one of these at goodwill of all places but it was TOTALLY trashed, it has a bad motor and is missing it's back wheels. But it has a good hose and circuit board that controls the motor. Let me know if you need any parts from it.

Post# 264364 , Reply# 10   1/21/2014 at 13:38 (3,718 days old) by cap10323 ()        

I don't think so Chris, I'm looking for a vacuum to replace my current one.. So I don't need any bits I don't think..

Cap10323


Post# 264379 , Reply# 11   1/21/2014 at 15:44 (3,718 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Good lord, that's an awful ad.

"...This is refurbished to my standards. " I hate to think what standard the seller's home is at....

Steer clear whatever you do!

BTW the Versamatic is a bit quieter than the X/Windsor Sensor and you get manual height adjustment as you would with the S12.

Cap - is it the XP 12 model with auto sensor you're looking for or the manual height adjustment?

The Versamatic has a similar dust bag capacity but due to commercial origins, it is also available with a reuseable washable dust bag as well as the paper disposables.


Post# 264382 , Reply# 12   1/21/2014 at 15:56 (3,718 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Cap - on EBAY.com at the moment there are a few SEBO uprights listed that are below the $600:

131087731769 SEBO Essential G - same as the S12 but brand new and has a green hood - it is exactly the same the S12 and uses the same older, more durable body as the Windsors. As you will see, the price is $495 best offer.

www.pjpmarketplace.com/Windsor-Se...

$530-99




Post# 264388 , Reply# 13   1/21/2014 at 16:44 (3,718 days old) by cap10323 ()        

Sebo_Fan, I am definitely looking for an S12.. Automatic height adjustment is just another thing to break In My opinion..

I see tons of them for $350-$600 But that is just out of my price range, And seeing as I don't require a new vacuum I don't see myself spending it..

I may very well post in the "Super-Market" Section a wanted ad, or perhaps post a wanted ad on Craigslist..

Cap10323


Post# 264401 , Reply# 14   1/21/2014 at 17:54 (3,718 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well mine has never broken in 15 years. Unless you are going over rough ground with it, you'll never break the auto sensor.

That G1 listing I gave (first one) looks like a superb deal -= it has manual height adjustment and it is brand new.


Post# 264405 , Reply# 15   1/21/2014 at 18:38 (3,718 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        

bagintheback's profile picture

Anybody on eBay is going to be asking market price; one in good shape under $300 is going to be hard to find. This might sound crazy, but maybe you would have some luck calling local hotels. They might have some surplus they would be willing to sell. Speaking of surplus, I checked some government auction websites and couldn't find any Windsors. One will pop up someday....

 

 


Post# 264419 , Reply# 16   1/21/2014 at 20:34 (3,718 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Consider the Hoover Insight...

stricklybojack's profile picture
it directly targets the Sebo you want in general appearance, function and features.
It comes in 13" ($450) and 15" ($500) versions, both from this same retailer, with free shipping.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 264420 , Reply# 17   1/21/2014 at 20:41 (3,718 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
GoVacuum video review...

stricklybojack's profile picture
Sebo vs Insight, *spoiler alert* he prefers the Hoover. See link below:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 264425 , Reply# 18   1/21/2014 at 22:19 (3,718 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Insight is nice, But Windsor is for me.

I also "Test drove" The Insight at my local Vac store.. Didn't like it.. Didn't clean half as well as the Windsor, And the brushroll is awful.. So It would be terrible on pet hair.. Which my house is full of..

I Am Going to keep looking on Craigslist, And E-Bay and see if I find anything..

Cap10323


Post# 264426 , Reply# 19   1/21/2014 at 22:22 (3,718 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Bagintheback

That's not a bad idea.. I've seen them on Craigslist before.. Multiple times.. (In Fact there are like 6 versamatics on there right now and one overpriced sensor)

So I'm sure I'll find one.. If Push comes to shove though.. I will most likely buy one new I suppose..

Heck, it's much better value for money than a Dyson!

Cap10323


Post# 264448 , Reply# 20   1/22/2014 at 09:17 (3,717 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The U.S are lucky to have the G1/G2. SEBO UK stopped them ages ago and put the Felix based Dart commercial upright in its place, which is good but not the same as.

Post# 264486 , Reply# 21   1/22/2014 at 17:42 (3,717 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
This Sebo looks better to me...

stricklybojack's profile picture
then the Windsor version imo.
I link to a Lindhaus Diamante, what do you think about those machines Cap?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 264501 , Reply# 22   1/22/2014 at 20:59 (3,717 days old) by cap10323 ()        

let me explain why I Want a Windsor and only a Windsor..

I have used many Windsors, and I Know they are Powerful, Work great on pet hair, Quiet, easy to use, etc..

I Don't know anything about these other machines that look similar to the Windsor..

So that is the reason I fully plan to purchase a Windsor machine, And not a look alike Hoover, Lindhaus, Etc..

Cap10323


Post# 264547 , Reply# 23   1/23/2014 at 11:52 (3,716 days old) by ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

ultralux88's profile picture
Do keep one thing in mind, Sebo builds the Windsor uprights. So if you see a Sebo it's the same thing. I personally think the Sebo is a bit sturdier than the similar machines and seem to be a bit more 'perfected ' in some ways. All of the Sebos for household use are made of the same plastic as the Windsors making them basically commercial machines. I love selling them and I use mine all the time. I also personally love the automatic height adjustment too. I've got a few different models and I love them all really. They even had a Kenmore version called the Kenmore Professional 12 or 15. I've got the wider 15.

Post# 264548 , Reply# 24   1/23/2014 at 12:00 (3,716 days old) by ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

ultralux88's profile picture
One advantage of trying for a Sebo is that it won't have been used commercially, meaning used Sebos are usually in much better shape than used Windsors. Here's a nice one I found.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO ultralux88's LINK on eBay


Post# 264554 , Reply# 25   1/23/2014 at 13:51 (3,716 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Plastics

The Sebo machines seem nice, Although Let me explain something about plastics.

The Sebo machines are exactly Identical, They use the same molds as the Windsor machines do.. However the plastic is different..

Sebo machines are Made of "PET (Polyethylene terephthalate)" Plastics, Where the Windsor machines Are made of "PP (Polypropylene)" plastics..

PET Plastic when hit or dropped shatters and Cracks.. PP Plastic is much more durable and is shatter proof.. If you don't believe me.. Hit a Shop vac bucket or Dyson Bin with a hammer as hard as you can.. It won't break.. it wont even crack.

Cap10323


Post# 264566 , Reply# 26   1/23/2014 at 16:18 (3,716 days old) by ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)        

ultralux88's profile picture
I've always been told they use the same plastic on both brands. But either way I never see the housings on the Sebo brake even when people really abuse them. As far as I knew Sebos are made of ABS, I know the bag housing, both the cover and main housing are as well as the hood on the base for sure. And I just looked for curiousity at the gray bag door on the Sebo canister and it's made of PP. I'll have to wait and take one apart again to see what the main base of the machine is. I'm sure it will either be ABS or PP.

Post# 264571 , Reply# 27   1/23/2014 at 17:28 (3,716 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Thing is Cap, you've obviously made up your mind what you want even if the SEBO models are the same. As the owner of both models, the X1A and the SEBOX X series are very similar and near identical as you say. The X1A is more or less the same as Windsor's series bar the colour.

The G1/G2 is closer to the Windsors in terms of looks right down to the grey doors etc.

I'd say that in both cases, both are as durable as one another - both X1 Automatic and the X4 but even if other members say so, if you have your heart set on a Windsor upright and nothing else, then i respect that.


Post# 264584 , Reply# 28   1/23/2014 at 18:18 (3,716 days old) by cap10323 ()        

I suppose you are right... I guess I do..

I really need to go back to the Vac Shop I think and look at some of the Sebos in greater detail perhaps..

I am One who values reliability and performance over looks 100% that's why I originally thought "Windsor! Windsor Make machines that are built like tanks!" and Went off of a search for one of them..

Speaking of which, Member "Electroluxxxx" Replied to my Thread in the "Super Market" Section saying he has one for sale if I just call him.. He won't give me pictures or anything.. Just that I have to call him..

I might very well do what he asks I suppose.. But It makes me a bit wary..

Cap10323


Post# 264594 , Reply# 29   1/23/2014 at 20:18 (3,716 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Electoluxxx is a great guy. Very trustworthy. I know Mike personally! No worries there.

You might also check vacuum shops local to you and see if they have any refurbed units!


Post# 264604 , Reply# 30   1/23/2014 at 22:02 (3,716 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well, Windsor don't technically make the Sensor or any of their uprights. I don't even think they make the cylinder/round canister tubs, either?

In Germany the old X1 based commercial uprights are available under XP1/2 & 3 with three different floor head sizes. Shame we don't get them in the UK. We get the X5 which has the 1300 watt motor though.


Post# 264606 , Reply# 31   1/23/2014 at 23:31 (3,716 days old) by cap10323 ()        

Ohh, Alright.. I've dealt with so many Nutjobs and Weirdos through Craigslist it's not even funny.. So When Someone asks me to call them I get a bit jumpy..

I've seen some of the Wider Sensors around for not that much.. My House is really small though.. A Big vacuum is very awkward to maneuver about in it though..

Cap10323



Post# 264631 , Reply# 32   1/24/2014 at 09:41 (3,715 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Totally off topic but also with Windsor - I note that in the U.S Windsor also sell Sebo's Felix upright but they have had two models, the Axcess and the Flexamatic, Flexamatic seems to be the old name for the Dart/Felix based model - I don't know if you have seen those or not.

Karcher ALSO have their own version of the SEBO FELIX but again this seems to be a U.S model only and not sold in the U.K.


Post# 264632 , Reply# 33   1/24/2014 at 09:57 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Felix

I was actually watching some YouTube Videos on the Felix last night.. They look nice, Perfect for someone who needs a light machine with a good bit of power..

I am not a fan of Dual motor systems though.. I prefer the motor of the vacuum spinning the brushroll.. Is that dislike granted? or am I just biased?


Cap10323


Post# 264634 , Reply# 34   1/24/2014 at 10:35 (3,715 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The Felix isn't light by any means - the power nozzle alone adds considerable weight IMHO and the dust bag is smaller than the X.

The main problem with the Felix is that the exhaust filter blows too much hot air when speed is increased and you'd get that all the time with the fixed commercial upright models unless variable speed is fitted. To be honest though I don't use the high speed much and find that low speed is enough for instant pick up. It is so different to the X/Sensor models because it swivels around corners and isn't as slim as the X either. But I do like it. I find it a versatile vacuum and I often switch the PN for a suction only floor head for my hard floors. It's a great "kitchen vac" as I can go around worktops with the short hose down the side.

It is however great for a small to medium "flat" rather than a home with stairs. Certainly if you have tons of furniture to get around, the Felix is a good alternative.

Sometimes I think members on here should provide photos of their living room etc when they are asking for a good vacuum. We tend to base everything on spec rather than actual use.

Dual motors comes down to personal choice. The Felix offers brush roll on/off function which the more traditional, older X models don't as yet provide. You also get manual 4 height adjustment on the Felix.


Post# 264636 , Reply# 35   1/24/2014 at 10:40 (3,715 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Is that dislike granted? or am I just biased?

turbo500's profile picture
You're just biased.

Please don't take this in an offensive way, but I think maybe you're being blinded by your Windsor experience. The Sebo and Windsor cleaners are pretty much exactly the same - they're certainly exactly the same in day to day use and performance.

The Felix is essentially like using a canister with a powerhead, but in the upright position - high suction power combined with a motor driven brushroll that really gets deep into the carpet pile. Despite my preference of the X range, I honestly think the Felix has greater suction power through the hose. It's ideal for homes with lots of nooks and crannies, small homes or homes with lots of different flooring. And, of course, it's very solidly built. My Mum has one and she absolutely loves it.

Why not try going to your local vac shop or showroom and trying a few out before making a decision on which is best for your home?


Post# 264641 , Reply# 36   1/24/2014 at 11:52 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Blinded by Windsor experience.

You could very well be right about that.. I'll go down to the Local Vacuum store and take a look around in a few days (It's -30F outside) and See what I like.. I know he's a Sebo Dealer, So I'm Sure he has Felix machines in stock..

Thanks for the input guys! I very well might still buy a Windsor Sensor.. But I am also going to look at some other options methinks!

Cap10323


Post# 264649 , Reply# 37   1/24/2014 at 13:26 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        
CATASTROPHE!

About 25 minutes after that last post I made.. I got out my current vacuum, Which is a 1983 Hoover Concept One and was going to vacuum my house with it as people are coming over later..

I turned it on and it wouldn't drive.. there was an audible strain on the motor and I could smell belts melting..

Turns out The mounting points on the replacement plastic transmission I had bought (The old metal one failed about a year ago) snapped off.. Causing the transmission to come into contact with the housing..

I simply removed the whole transmission and taped up the metal supports so they won't drag on the ground.. The vacuum still works.. But I doubt it's long for this world in this state..



Post# 264650 , Reply# 38   1/24/2014 at 13:27 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Another Picture of the busted mounts

.

Post# 264651 , Reply# 39   1/24/2014 at 13:28 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Taped up

.

Post# 264674 , Reply# 40   1/24/2014 at 22:16 (3,715 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        
Here's One!

bagintheback's profile picture

This is a Sebo/Windsor relabeled as a Kenmore. It needs a bit of cleaning, but you can't beat the price! 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO bagintheback's LINK on eBay

Post# 264682 , Reply# 41   1/24/2014 at 23:06 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        
Kenmore

I might have to make an Ebay Account for that!

I really like the color too..

Cap10323


Post# 264686 , Reply# 42   1/24/2014 at 23:16 (3,715 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Another like it...

stricklybojack's profile picture
in vastly better condition with free shipping. The current bid is also much higher. If these prices held i still feel this may be the better value of these two ebay auctions.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK on eBay


Post# 264690 , Reply# 43   1/24/2014 at 23:53 (3,715 days old) by cap10323 ()        

I Know This might sound very odd to you.. but in terms of looks anyway, I personally like the Kenmore more.. I also like the fact it's a matte finish and not a shiny finish..

Call me weird..

I am going to make a PayPal Account tomorrow morning and then start watching that Kenmore.. I bet you If I swing this right.. I can get it for under $80..

Cap10323


Post# 265355 , Reply# 44   1/30/2014 at 09:29 (3,709 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Cap - did you get/win the Kenmore?

Post# 265518 , Reply# 45   1/31/2014 at 09:34 (3,708 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Well if he didn't...

stricklybojack's profile picture
here's another on Ebay right now see link.
Not gonna call you weird Cap, in this case we differ though. My weirdest vac taste choice would probably be the ultra rare all metal metal commercial Oreck canister, or the Oreck Dual Stack upright, (pics on the way)...actually i sorta have a soft spot for anyting Oreck and it just ain't right. I also held my nose and bought a Hoover WindTunnel as my most recent Thrift Store fixer and next thing i knew it was a daily driver.

Hard tellin' not knowin'


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK on eBay


Post# 265519 , Reply# 46   1/31/2014 at 09:37 (3,708 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Dual Stack pic

stricklybojack's profile picture
Don't own one yet...

Post# 265522 , Reply# 47   1/31/2014 at 09:46 (3,708 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Oreck Pt57b Stainless Steel with Enamel paint

stricklybojack's profile picture
Never saw one other than online janitorial supply joints...i think only old stock now remains as very few are now on offer.

Post# 265547 , Reply# 48   1/31/2014 at 12:55 (3,708 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Thing is, though at the end of the day, a collector can buy what they want. I can see Cap's point in this - after all, I only just sold my well cared for SEBO X4 a month ago - and I have no intention of buying another X4 ever again - much prefer my old X1 Automatic, which is like the Kenmore that Cap was after on EBAY.

That used X4 looks great until you see the sides of it. Oh my!





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