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Thread Number: 22980
SEBO VACUUM CLEANERS |
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| Post# 257249 , Reply# 1 11/22/2013 at 09:38 (3,800 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
Firstly, hello and welcome.
Secondly, I disagree with you MASSIVELY. I've been using Sebo vacuums now for at least 5 years and most of my relatives now own their machines. I've never found the suction to be a problem and in my experience of the D4, the suction is very similar to that of a Numatic Henry. I'm sure one of our other members will be able to give you some technical data regarding airwatts compared with other cylinders on the market. Thirdly, no straight suction cleaner will ever be able to deep clean a thick pile carpet. Of all the issues I know of people having with their Sebo's, the suction has never been one of them. The most common issues are dislike of the automatic height adjustment (which is more of a personal preference thing) and the X series falling over when using the hose, which I agree is quite annoying. | ||
| Post# 257269 , Reply# 3 11/22/2013 at 11:48 (3,800 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 257270 , Reply# 4 11/22/2013 at 11:58 (3,800 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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I use an Accu Nova with my miele and it does a good job but they should offer a revolution model for customers who want it. And yes I agree the S7 was made for the American market. | ||
| Post# 257273 , Reply# 6 11/22/2013 at 12:46 (3,800 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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With advances in technology would it be possible to produce a bypass motor that can clean as well as a direct air motor or is this beyond the realms of possibility? | ||
| Post# 257281 , Reply# 8 11/22/2013 at 13:26 (3,800 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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It performs well until cheap plastic parts start falling off it. Lets be honest mieles latest offerings do not have the same build quality as their previous models! | ||
| Post# 257284 , Reply# 9 11/22/2013 at 13:34 (3,800 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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and the agitation is weak | ||
| Post# 257285 , Reply# 10 11/22/2013 at 13:46 (3,800 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Video looks impressive. Still not convinced it will perform better than the miele S7 but it will certainly beat it for reliability and ease of use in my opinion. | ||
| Post# 257304 , Reply# 13 11/22/2013 at 16:13 (3,800 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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It's not a deep pile carpet, no. It's a medium pile, hard wearing rug. I'll try the same test on my upstairs carpet and see how it goes, that's much thicker.
I went with Sebo over Miele because the machine is more durable, cheaper consumables, easier to dissemble, lighter, more maneuverable, cheaper to buy etc etc. I think you get far more value with the Sebo and the performance difference is negligible. The S7 is also simply too big for my house. | ||
| Post# 257306 , Reply# 14 11/22/2013 at 16:34 (3,800 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke () | ||
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Well you know you could always have a Sebo and a Miele... you are a collector! LOL. It sounds like you chose the Sebo for the right reasons.... | ||
| Post# 257337 , Reply# 15 11/22/2013 at 22:31 (3,800 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Im with Chris here, but you miss out one rather important feature with the D4 - can't trust the data of what you're told with pull lift and that's with any brand. The D4 like the rest of SEBO's vacuums have 2100 watts. Not the highest because Miele fight back up 2200 watts. However, the power nozzle floor head sees service with the K3 as well as the Felix and commercial upright version the SEBO Dart and they are designed for commercial use as well as domestic.
Like the rest of SEBO's range, it is all commercial based. I had an S7 and apart from it being bulky, the most annoying aspects were that the rear hose was bolted in by two screws, so if any clogging happened you have to unscrew the bottom hose - with SEBO as you know, it's all about unlocking clasps or unlocking something. The S7 may well have a spring action loader on its floor head but its swivel is too big to go around the corners and the Felix is so much better in this respect if you need a swivel based upright vacuum. I find the X series agitation to be fine and far easier to clean off threads etc unlike the guide-to-cut lines on the brush roll of the Miele. In addition I can't stand that you have to push you foot on the pedal to get the S7 over thresholds as well as onto different floor coverings. The cushion of air should be enough to interrupt different rugs for example instead of having to use the pedal all the time. The only thing that Miele offers over the SEBO is a far more complicated, heavier hose and wand at the back as well as variable suction control and far more power. Miele at the moment haven't thought about a compact upright - in their eyes, a compact upright is the Alternative stick vacuum or S190 series, both of which are no longer available to buy in the UK. As a suction only stick vacuum, it is okay but it isn't featherlight. I still have problems with mine due to its bottom fill bag where dust falls out and through the floor head. But I'd rather have it over a Miele S7 again. | ||
| Post# 257340 , Reply# 16 11/23/2013 at 00:02 (3,799 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Thank you for all your informative replies. Very interesting! | ||
| Post# 257353 , Reply# 17 11/23/2013 at 04:50 (3,799 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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you could always have a Sebo and a Miele | ||
| Post# 257395 , Reply# 18 11/23/2013 at 15:26 (3,799 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 257403 , Reply# 19 11/23/2013 at 15:58 (3,799 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
SEBO UK on YouTube.....
Looks like SEBO UK have created a YouTube channel with a few soundless videos of some of the domestic vacuums X, K, D and Felix. Very good user guides. Nice to see SEBO UK do something like this!
I see the Director Justin Binks of SEBO UK has been commenting on the EU ruling of motor wattage reduction see News section on SEBO UK website! I have to say I've fitted the first synthetic bag on my Felix and what a difference in airflow and suction this new type of bag has made compared to the bag version. I love the Felix for it versatile usage and deep cleaning and grooming on carpet. I've had my Felix for 6 years and can't see myself ever going back to a bagless vacuum well a Dyson! I also have a Miele S7 which I've had nearly a year now, it was a bargain price hence why I purchased it or I probably would have got a SEBO X4. Plus I wanted to try a Miele. It's a good vacuum love the hose and telescopic wand. Wish the brush bar was designed like the SEBO as you can't not remove it on the S7! I love the simplicity and ease of use of the SEBO vacuums just wish more people in the UK knew about the Brand! | ||
| Post# 257469 , Reply# 20 11/24/2013 at 13:12 (3,798 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Ty for the heads up of SEBO UK on You Tube. The videos may well be added to the UK website for each model.
As for JB, the managing director released that info ages ago on the site. Dependent on the type of dirt, the SEBO bags can actually be reused again in the Felix, but only once more after the initial emptying. I tried it a couple of times but then realised that my filters on board were becoming more progressively dirtier. I suppose you can't cheat the design. I don't mind the paper bags though as it keeps costs low if they are reduced in price. That's one aspect of SEBO ownership I've always adored - the costs of the bag are far cheaper than Miele - especially when you consider how many you get in a box compared to Miele's standard 4. | ||
Post# 257475 , Reply# 21 11/24/2013 at 14:55 (3,798 days old) by Durango159  (State College, PA) |
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I'm not impressed with the agitation video posted in reply 9!!!
I completely agree with Marcusprit!!! Sebos are very durable, great filtration, light weight and the cord length is nice. But I've been unimpressed with cleaning ability on all the ones I've used to include: several G1's, X4 blue and a D4 canister with ET-1 power head. The D4 was brand new out of the box too!!! They claim that the tapering hose to increase airflow is a huge benefit to the machine. I was very unimpressive with airflow of machine. What good is high filtration, if the machine isn't capable of getting the bad dirt out of the surface you're trying to clean. I'd rather have a better deep cleaning machine and a separate air cleaner to catch anything that the vacuum spewed out. Check out the attached video for a little demonstration on agitation! CLICK HERE TO GO TO Durango159's LINK | ||
| Post# 257488 , Reply# 22 11/24/2013 at 16:14 (3,798 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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Your welcome, hopefully they will as there is an option on the website per model to select a video demo.
That interesting and good to know about the synthetic bags on the Felix might try it. I got the pack of synthetic bags from John Lewis store slightly more in price then the paper one and 2 less in the box! I've been luckily as a got an offer from Miele for 2 boxes of S7 bags but not as cheap as the SEBO running costs I agree. As for the agitation having used the Felix for 6 years which has the same ET-1 head as the D series and having used the S7 for nearly a year; between the Felix and S7 they groom the carpet on par with each other in my personal experience. What I will say you can see surface dirt, grit jump about more with the S7 than the Felix in my experience. | ||
| Post# 257494 , Reply# 23 11/24/2013 at 17:52 (3,798 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Durango - you give a example video showing a Dyson vs a Miele. One would assume on this thread that the video would have shown a SEBO vacuum - how misleading. I think I'll have to buy some sand tomorrow and conduct my own tests. I don't have a Dyson, though I do have a bagless upright.
By all means share a video showing how bad the airflow is on the D4. Id really like to see it. No air escapes on vacuums like SEBO in general - they'd never be considered good enough for the commercial market if their pick up was generally poor, either. The reason the hose is bigger at the end to the top is that it reduces clogging, perfect for pet hair to flow through as well as other considerations of general household dirt. | ||
| Post# 257539 , Reply# 24 11/25/2013 at 08:05 (3,797 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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In the commercial world they only have to deal with low pile carpet but to effectively clean medium to deep pile you need more aggitation and airflow. | ||
| Post# 257579 , Reply# 25 11/25/2013 at 20:08 (3,797 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Oh this old adage again...
If, like me you have actually worked in the commercial trade with vacuums like Henry and SEBO, not all carpet is the of the glued down low pile variety. Chapels in hospitals benefit from thick carpeting which usually gets a SEBO upright run over it. Same with hotels - they're not all low pile. Whilst I do agree that the brush roll on the SEBO X automatic doesn't go low enough to provide the same kind of cleaning a dirty fan upright can perform to, the Felix and the manual control SEBO uprights are a better match. They use the same brush rolls on the Felix as they do on the X series. The commercial uprights use a different brush roll with removable strips. And to what degree does a carpet need agitation? To the point that it starts to rip carpets to bits like a Dyson? I had experience of that before when carpets were practically threadbare after going over carpet with a Dyson brush roll - they are far from gentle. | ||
| Post# 257597 , Reply# 26 11/26/2013 at 00:19 (3,796 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Yes i agree you can overdo agitation but i still think Sebos would benefit from a bit more airflow. I'm not knocking them i think they are excellent Vacuum Cleaners! I own a Felix and considering purchasing a D4. | ||
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Post# 257602 , Reply# 27 11/26/2013 at 00:45 (3,796 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA) |
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I'll do research and try to find some more youtube videos. There are several videos of Dyson vs. Tandem Air Tacony uprights and/ or Miele S7. There also some of Orecks vs. Tandems and Mieles. There are videos of Royal Everlast vs. some other vacs. Many of the "VS." competition vac videos on Youtube from vac shops are common well known Big Box store machines vs. a Miele S7 or Riccar Brilliance. The Sebos are a high quality, very durable machine. Their cleaning is good but could be MUCH better.
I have no video available for a D4's airflow. I worked with one brand new out of the box for several months at a former house cleaning client of mine. The airflow for bare floor attachments and deep cleaning ability did not compare to Riccar 1700, Kenmore Intuition or Hoover Windtunnel canister that I substituted in on occasion to make my job easier and produce a cleaner environment. Yes the Sebo filtration and build quality is better than the Kenmore and Hoover but cleaning power on those machines made the job SIGNIFICANTLY easier, faster and more thorough. I have since dropped this client for better line of work and don't have to bring my machines along to cover the slack of her Dyson DC41, DC25 or Sebo D4. | ||
| Post# 257613 , Reply# 28 11/26/2013 at 04:32 (3,796 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Yes I agree totally Durrango very nice machines but room for improvement. But all vacuum cleaner have faults. One day the perfect one will come along :-) | ||
| Post# 257644 , Reply# 29 11/26/2013 at 12:10 (3,796 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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Before I had my Felix and researching I called SEBO UK and one thing I was told they don't measure or use airwatts like most modern vacuum cleaners mention to gauge suction or performance. But I've learnt it's not all about that to measure performance!
Its interesting reading all these comments/posts on this thread and other threads in regards to performance, airflow etc... For example Dyson is always referred to having good suction but poor agitation, SEBO ok suction/airflow but good to excellent agitation, Miele great suction/airflow and agitation and so on. But the later 2 most of the time are the favoured ones for giving better cleaning performance (and from reviews I read which are subjectional!!!) but are not necessary the same like for like. I know suction and airflow are not directly related! Be interesting to see these readings!! | ||
| Post# 257647 , Reply# 30 11/26/2013 at 12:54 (3,796 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 257650 , Reply# 32 11/26/2013 at 13:03 (3,796 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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I did a service last week on a friends Windsor with the wide head on it. New filters and bag, ran it over my carpet edge and even left it sitting there, the cat litter was still on the floor, so I think the air flow was only ok? My dc 18 passes that test here.Dirty fan models have no issue for me.Not scientific at all of course, just what worked here.
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| Post# 257653 , Reply# 34 11/26/2013 at 13:32 (3,796 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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At the end of day, yes there isn't a perfect vacuum cleaner - but how far can one go to get agitation on a carpet without ruining it? Even before SEBO came along, the best upright in my mind was that of the Hoover classic uprights - the metal beaters, the bristle strips - beat the carpet and sucked out the grit. No more dirt on the floor.
Brands as well as Hoover cleverly pointed out "deep down grit" is the most damaging to carpets - but overly brushing a carpet also starts to remove the fibres of the actual carpet pile - which brands don't point out. The whole point of SEBO's X sensor and the brush roll design is to save the wear on the carpet as well as not being too abrasive to the point that it feels like you're ploughing along - which some conventional uprights with height adjusters show. Also as an owner of both Miele and SEBO vacuums, although Wessel Werk floor heads are durable and well designed, some are not as perfect as the company make out - I adore the new Twister Parquet floor brush on my new Miele S8 Ecoline for example - but it still doesn't pick up fluff and threads the first time around to channel into the large suction channel if they are on a hard floor. Instead they get caught up on its castle cut brush design. Oh yes it removes the majority of it, but even on hard floors I'm inclined to prefer a moving brush bar with no beaters that pulls in dirt due to additional suction channels (which SEBO are excellent for designing with both the Felix and the X in this respect) whilst the brush bar deals with the rough stuff that would ordinarily get caught up in fixed brushes. Do I have time to remove fluff manually from a floor head? No. Why should I? | ||
| Post# 257656 , Reply# 35 11/26/2013 at 13:48 (3,796 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Interestingly enough Jon, have a look at a snapshot of an old SEBO C2.1 user manual. I also asked SEBO UK why they don't use air watts and got the same answer. However, it is clear that SEBO in Germany have done some testing with air flow/air watts is concerned.
This snap shot has been taken from SEBO's German website with their English user manual. However, mine states 425 air watts...I must remember to find it and scan it for here. 
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| Post# 257669 , Reply# 36 11/26/2013 at 17:19 (3,796 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 257683 , Reply# 37 11/26/2013 at 18:17 (3,796 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 257686 , Reply# 38 11/26/2013 at 19:25 (3,796 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 257701 , Reply# 39 11/27/2013 at 00:45 (3,795 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Yes very impressive video! :-) | ||
| Post# 257724 , Reply# 40 11/27/2013 at 12:09 (3,795 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 257736 , Reply# 41 11/27/2013 at 17:38 (3,795 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 257741 , Reply# 42 11/27/2013 at 19:08 (3,795 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 257831 , Reply# 43 11/28/2013 at 14:52 (3,794 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK) | ||
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| Post# 257875 , Reply# 44 11/29/2013 at 11:11 (3,793 days old) by adamthemieleman (North Yorkshire ) | ||
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'Not enough airflow to clean carpets' I would beg to differ. I went round with my S7 on Eco mode, thinking the carpet was clean. Put a piece of kitchen cloth over the hose of the Sebo and tried that. A few times the blockage light came on, the cloth was thick with dust. No offence to the Miele, I guess it wasn't on full | ||
| Post# 257929 , Reply# 45 11/29/2013 at 20:22 (3,793 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Slightly off topic - but what gets me about SEBO being semi-commercial, semi-domestic and Miele's S7 being a luxury, premium domestic product is the simple fact that Hoover Europe and Electrolux should be able to offer something that is just as modern. I wish Hoover & Electrolux could launch a bagged upright that has the same features of its Slalom, Globe or Turbo Power/Nimble/brush roll on/off, long hose, quality attachments. It wouldn't cost that much.
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| Post# 257948 , Reply# 46 11/30/2013 at 04:47 (3,792 days old) by madabouthoovers () | ||
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Yes sebo_fan so do I, but we know who we have to thank for this sorry state of affairs that the only bagged upright Hoover offer now is the 16 year old Purepower. The UK is now bagless mad all because of 1 man - a certain Sir James Dyson. 
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| Post# 257964 , Reply# 47 11/30/2013 at 11:00 (3,792 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 268314 , Reply# 48 2/18/2014 at 10:05 (3,712 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK) | ||
Interesting reading through this thread, but I have to point out a couple of things.
70 inches of water lift is the industry average for suction. On sebo UK's website, they do not state air watts or water lift, but the D4 premium I had had incredible suction as did the felix. The felix was slightly down vs the d4 but by the narrowest of margins, and considering the air has to travel less distance on the felix versus the d4, I think they are both pretty much neck and neck in dirt pick up. The felix is by far the deepest cleaning vacuum I have owned, and that includes me having an s7. The felix being the only cleaner i have had that picks up my thick heavy wool carpets I have in my hall way and living room. In all my bedrooms, I have low pile carpeting and I have to turn down the suction on the felix to about half point because anything more than that, it slows down the head and it thinks something is jamming it, although you can keep full suction and set the brush height higher, I prefer setting the suction lower. | ||
| Post# 268322 , Reply# 49 2/18/2014 at 11:59 (3,712 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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