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Thread Number: 22920
EU Reducing Energy on Vacuums Update |
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| Post# 256383 11/15/2013 at 18:03 (3,808 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Out of interest, I have found a few things leading up to the EU law to reduce vacuum cleaner watts and discovered a few things at www.bureauveritas.com...
The following info was released originally on the 1st of November 2013, so it is still quite fresh for all the brands to take up notice. CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK 
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| Post# 256385 , Reply# 1 11/15/2013 at 18:08 (3,808 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Also Hoover in Germany have launched the Athos with an eco-version, the 1000 watt Athos (model number TAT 1000). The more I look at it, the more it reminds me of a love child between a Miele S6 and a Bosch BSGL5.
The new Athos has a long cord and similar 5 litre bag capacity to both the bigger Miele S8, S2 and Bosch BSGL5 series and copies Bosch on fitting 4 castors on the base. I'm not sure if this new lower powered model compared to the 2400 watt and 2500 watt versions has been launched to meet the new European requirements. 
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| Post# 256434 , Reply# 2 11/16/2013 at 12:58 (3,807 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.) | ||
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ohhhh yes! This is great news! Finally something good the EU has actually done for once! I hope that Hoover Europe put's an end to those 2300W sensory/dust manager bagless cylinder cleaners. 2300W is tooooooo much! | ||
| Post# 256436 , Reply# 3 11/16/2013 at 13:27 (3,807 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 256444 , Reply# 4 11/16/2013 at 13:58 (3,807 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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3000 WATTS????? My lights flicker enough as it is with a 1400w Hoover Jazz when I switch it on! 3000w would probably put them out! | ||
| Post# 256484 , Reply# 5 11/16/2013 at 17:12 (3,807 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 256489 , Reply# 6 11/16/2013 at 17:32 (3,807 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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The Hob is built into the cooker & is operated by gas. | ||
| Post# 256491 , Reply# 7 11/16/2013 at 17:40 (3,807 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere) | ||
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Will the USA also limit amps/watts on our vacuums? The American Electrolux model G from the 1960s run on 535 watts 
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| Post# 256494 , Reply# 8 11/16/2013 at 18:07 (3,807 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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I think it's just Europe for now. | ||
| Post# 256520 , Reply# 10 11/16/2013 at 22:06 (3,807 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well it just doesn't affect Hoover. But both Miele, SEBO and Bosch sell bagged vacuums with high power - Miele will have to change all their S5 and S8 ranges to meet the EU demand - most are 2200watts whereas SEBO's cylinder vacs are 2100 watt. Bosch are 2200watts for the most part, 2000 watts for the bagless ones though the Siemens mode Z6 (similar to the BSGL5) offers 2500 watts.
However, all the main 3 also offer Eco versions of their cylinder vacs apart from SEBO in the UK who offer Eco versions in other countries. Hi-Lo - I take it then you have a gas oven too? Electric ovens are notoriously high as well. This post was last edited 11/16/2013 at 22:25 | ||
| Post# 256540 , Reply# 11 11/17/2013 at 03:51 (3,806 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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No the ovens electric, I think, it's 12 years old but I'm not sure. | ||
| Post# 256541 , Reply# 12 11/17/2013 at 03:57 (3,806 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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What about the Panasonic Bagged Uprights? They're 1900w & 2000w. | ||
| Post# 256542 , Reply# 13 11/17/2013 at 03:59 (3,806 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 256615 , Reply# 17 11/17/2013 at 11:52 (3,806 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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The report that I've given as a link clearly describes what kinds of vacuums are to be lowered - the interesting aspect is that they are discounting hand helds, cordless, wet and dry and commercial vacuums - now SEBO and Numatic could so easily hide under the "commercial" tag.
There is also mention of a $7 saving over a five year period of usage though how they get to that figure is mere speculation - it is impossible to collect information unless they have specifically run a vacuum for 1 minute to 24 hours, two days, a week, month, year. $7 is quite low - about £5 saving over a 5 year period IF brands lower their watts. Hardly seems worthwhile... The other aspect that I am confused about is that whilst the U.S lists a lot of floorcare appliances as amps, I was looking at the Haan USA (Steam cleaners) website yesterday and they list their steam mops with watts - 1500 watts, 1600 watts and so on. Yes, Hi-Lo, you are right - Panasonic do offer high powered uprights but they are also offering the 1200 watt uprights; I have a feeling that the 1200 watt models may well replace those higher powered bagged uprights soon. Hoover also offer that Freedom/Dustmanager Eco upright but that is bagless. Electrolux, Morphy Richards and of course other brands that make bagless uprights like Russell Hobbs etc would also have to change. | ||
| Post# 256624 , Reply# 19 11/17/2013 at 12:12 (3,806 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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Should have said "isn't" going to hit a nerve. | ||
| Post# 256626 , Reply# 20 11/17/2013 at 12:15 (3,806 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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in fact You may as well scrub the bulk of the message I wrote. What I meant to say was the cleaner would now be 50% cheaper to run than previous models, and that the old cleaner could then be described as using 100% more energy than the newer version. | ||
| Post# 256636 , Reply# 22 11/17/2013 at 12:49 (3,806 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Yes, but if Hoover get rid of the bagged upright, Hi-Lo, it's the end of the paper bag from that design, which still sees service in those who own the Hoover Junior Deluxe/Starlight.
And a good example isn't the Bosch BS whatever, because that's a marketing promise led from the brand that others have done already. Unless you actually own the model and can share the experience by comparing it to a standard vacuum cleaner, you're really none the wiser. Brands are claiming all the time about energy consumption promises - especially Bosch - but as my reviews have shown with the info I've collected through experience - energy saving can be a cumbersome and often annoying aspect for that low energy promise - dependent on brand and its model in question. The Miele Air Teq floor head that is currently fitted to the S6 Ecoline and S8 models weighs about 740 grams - now, over half of that for the standard suction only floor heads which are lighter, you have to compromise on the added weight as the floor head sticks to the floor. The brands then cap the motors to allow a higher suction rate between the first three settings. In all my years of ownership of Miele's Ecoline models that claim to offer the "same power," their floor heads are generally heavier, bulkier to push and quite stressful. Oh they are good on pick up and they're durable due to the added weight, but they're not as easy to glide over surfaces than the lighter floor head. Trying any one of Miele's standard suction only floor head then results in having to increase the suction speed of the Ecoline vacuum to meet the same amount of "pulling" power, but at the detriment of having to either open the air valve at the top of the handle just for a lighter push. So much effort when a standard cylinder vacuum without the nonsense of a heavy suction only "Eco" floor head eliminates all this nonsense! Fine if you have muscles from Brussels, but in general a few brands need to look at ways of adding standard suction floor heads rather than unnecessarily adding stress to the owner because of the low eco promise. | ||
| Post# 256759 , Reply# 23 11/18/2013 at 02:20 (3,806 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
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| Post# 256765 , Reply# 26 11/18/2013 at 06:39 (3,805 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
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VR, I think the biggest change in motors will simply be a shift away from the cheapened single fan units many companies use now, back to twin fans. Nothing new, nothing to redesign, just a return to what was commonplace 20 odd years ago.
Dyson will most likely press on with their digital motor concept, rolling it out to cover a broader range of models than they do currently. Their current ceiling price appears to be around £400, but I fully expect them to start pushing for £500 when this happens. And people will pay it! Floor heads and tools will go back to directing all of the available airflow into the surface being cleaned, rather than bleeding off excess suction through ventilation slots as many do now. Miele's AirTec head, and the one Numatic provide with their 800 watt cleaners, are two examples of this. Again, nothing new, they were all like this before ridiculously high wattages became the norm. Possibly we may see more electric powerheads on cylinders. I know these have never been especially popular in the UK, and to the best of my knowledge Sebo is currently the only brand to offer one at retail (Numatic no longer have any on their website, which leads me to wonder if those still offered for sale are leftover stock). With lower wattages, the performance of turbo brushes may suffer somewhat, and for those wanting more oomph in a cylinder an electric brush may be the best alternative. Good luck to the manufacturers trying to sell that concept though, because it's something Brits have never gone crazy for. One good thing may be an increase in the use of polypropylene dust bags, which typically retain greater airflow as the bag fills. There are still a few holdouts using paper bags, but I think this is one of the first things a manufacturer would change in a effort to wring more cleaning efficiency out of a lower wattage motor. | ||
| Post# 256866 , Reply# 27 11/18/2013 at 23:46 (3,805 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 256884 , Reply# 28 11/19/2013 at 03:48 (3,804 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
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Ah, I see what you mean - looking back at what I wrote, it could have been taken either way.
What I was getting at is that the new "eco" floor heads (e.g. Miele AirTeq and the Numatic one for 800 watt machines) are designed to focus all of the available airflow into the carpet, so as to make the most of the lower wattage motor. Floor heads for higher wattage machines are usually designed to bleed off excess suction. Miele actually made mention of this in their brochures a few years ago, pointing out that their conventional floor head has "a hidden, but vital, ventilation system". Some allow air to be drawn in from around the baseplate, not just underneath, while others draw some air in through top shell of the head. Which rather begs the question, why have all that suction in the first place? | ||
| Post# 256901 , Reply# 29 11/19/2013 at 08:33 (3,804 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Possibly to fill up the bags with more dirt thus forcing buyers to buy more bags?
The only floor heads that have successful air bleed valves are main size turbo brushes - SEBO, Miele and some old Vax, Hoover ones have bleed valves that makes gliding a heck of a lot easier than ploughing through carpet. | ||
| Post# 256907 , Reply# 30 11/19/2013 at 10:25 (3,804 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
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Yep, turbo brushes usually have a true relief valve, in the form of either a slider or rotary vent. Allows you to have enough airflow going through the turbine to drive the brushes at a sufficient speed, while relieving some of the suction so the head doesn't bog down into the carpet.
On the rare occasions I use the turbo head on my Sebo D2, the vent usually needs to be left open. Running the cleaner at a high enough speed to drive the brushes usually results in the head sticking itself down onto the carpet. Slowing the motor down would prevent that, but also makes the turbo head less effective. Flicking open the vent solves the issue without affecting performance. With regard to higher suction filling bags more quickly, I think after a certain level you reach the point of diminishing returns. There is only so much dirt that can be removed from any carpet by vacuuming. I've had Hoover cylinders with 700-800 watts that filled their bags at a rate of knots, and a 600 watt Hitachi upright that put many modern cleaners to shame. Now we have cleaners with twice or thrice the wattage, they don't fill *that* much quicker. | ||
| Post# 256911 , Reply# 31 11/19/2013 at 11:19 (3,804 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Ah but isn't there a difference between synthetic dust bags and paper dust bags? I have noticed a difference with the synthetic dust bags in my Felix than the brown paper dust bags - the synthetics tend to last longer, possibly due to their thinner but much tougher quality than paper.
I also suspect that though the process of electrostatics are clearly used, the Felix bag (and indeed the SEBO D2 bags) can actually be reused again provided you empty the bag out and suck out the clogged areas. You can't do that with paper ones. | ||
| Post# 257029 , Reply# 32 11/20/2013 at 13:51 (3,803 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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Surprise Surprise... Hoover have now got the Purepower Greenray Upright back on hoover.co.uk again but with no price as of yet. | ||
| Post# 257033 , Reply# 33 11/20/2013 at 14:53 (3,803 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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There are two Greenray models from the bagged Purepower with 1200 watts and the Dustmanager (based on the Freedom) Greenray upright at £179-99. Though Hoover's own link on Amazon UK shows a price of £117-99 as opposed to £174-99
The Purepower Greenray upright was last sold by Hoover from 2011, so even if it isn't listed on Hoover's own website, Amazon UK is far better to look for a search. As you will see from the link provided, it is "currently unavailable," and yet it doesn't look like anything on it has been improved since it was listed on Amazon UK and Hoover's spec page now. CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK | ||
| Post# 257051 , Reply# 34 11/20/2013 at 17:17 (3,803 days old) by madabouthoovers () | ||
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Purepower Greenray? I just checked and its not on there. The Freedom Airvolution Greenray (which they call the dustmanager greenray) is there, but not the Purepower version. CLICK HERE TO GO TO madabouthoovers's LINK | ||
| Post# 257054 , Reply# 35 11/20/2013 at 17:49 (3,803 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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Type in 'purepower' on Hoovers search bar steve. | ||
| Post# 257112 , Reply# 36 11/21/2013 at 02:07 (3,803 days old) by glenste (England) | ||
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Interesting to note that the air watts rating for the 1200w Greenray Purepower is 290. Exactly the same as the 2100w versions! High wattage motors totally un-necessary. | ||
| Post# 257121 , Reply# 38 11/21/2013 at 06:03 (3,802 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Sadly HI-LO, it is an example of Hoover's UK website - they are notorious for getting information wrong, showing old machines and not supplying the right data. If you go onto the site for example you won't be able to find the Slalom by physically typing the name in.
Yet if you do a Google search the following link appears - Hoover haven't updated to remove that link whether they sell the machine or not. CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK | ||
| Post# 257122 , Reply# 39 11/21/2013 at 06:05 (3,802 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Since you're a fan of review sites, HI-LO, click the link and it shows an old review I did about hoover.co.uk on Dooyoo.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK | ||
| Post# 257145 , Reply# 41 11/21/2013 at 11:15 (3,802 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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they show the S8 cat and dog with a power nozzle
Miele show the S8 Cat & Dog with an air-driven turbo brush, which is supplied with the cleaner. There are no power nozzle models listed on Miele UK's website.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Turbo500's LINK | ||
| Post# 257152 , Reply# 42 11/21/2013 at 12:40 (3,802 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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