Thread Number: 22821
Oh my days, never heard such rubbish 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 255105   11/4/2013 at 01:57 (3,818 days old) by Adamthemieleman (North Yorkshire )        

Stupid Brussels, seems like we will all be seeing less power to our vacuums from now on. Of course, Mr Dyson has had his twopence on the situation.

What do you think?

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Post# 255107 , Reply# 1   11/4/2013 at 02:14 (3,818 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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I actually really welcome this change. Vacuum manufacturers have become lazy putting excessively powerful motors on their cleaners to compensate for poor design. The 2 best selling vacuums in the UK are Dyson and Numatic, both are 1200w. Miele's are rated at 1200w in other parts of the world and Sebo uprights are 1300w max. You don't need anything more than that.

The new legislation will force lazy manufacturers to undertake some proper R&D to make their machines more efficient.

Post# 255109 , Reply# 2   11/4/2013 at 03:22 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        
It is not rubbish

 50 years ago, 500 watts or so was considered powerful for a cylinder. As time progressed, wattage increased further, and whilst I always preferred Electrolux cylinder cleaners to Hoover, the latter did always have that little bit more suction power. Then in the 1970's Electrolux completely redesigned their motors, resulting in much more power, with a typical wattage being between only 650 and 750 watts.

But it wasn't just the motor. Cleaners were designed to maximize airflow, and in many cases the dirt was flung to the out edges of the dustbag so as to make good use of the natural cyclone effect, which is why so many cloth bags were round in shape.

And then we move to uprights. Sold principally as carpet-sweeping machines, the tools were only ever an add-on for light cleaning tasks. The low wattage motors -clean and dirty air- created plenty of suction to carry debris the minute distance from floor to bag. The addition of built-on tools resulted in motor wattages needing to be stepped up as there was not the room to make a physically bigger motor.

But then somewhere in the last 20 years it all went pitifully wrong. Someone must have decided that numbers sell and that it was cheaper to build a high wattage motor than it was to bother to make a cleaner which worked better. Thus, the wattages have gone up and up and up, and all this in a time when the push has been to drastically lower energy consumption across the country.

These high-wattage motors are not always producing useful suction power either. Think of it like this; if your beside light has a standard 60 watt bulb, you will get more light from it if the lampshade is white rather than black. The power used is the same, but what you get out of it is entirely restricted by the design. Add then to this, if you please, that no manufacturer has said as of yet exactly how many air-watts is needed for each type of cleaning task.

Turbo500 has nailed it in the last line of his reply.



Post# 255110 , Reply# 3   11/4/2013 at 03:25 (3,818 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

turbo500's profile picture
Also, think back over history. How many of our parents, grandparents and even great grandparents had Hoover Juniors? Those were all 250 - 300w max and nobody ever complained about those not picking up.

I have a 1992 Panasonic MC-E44, rated at 700w. The hose suction is equal to my modern Sebo X1.1 and it actually has MORE suction power on the hose than my Mum's old 1800w Electrolux. Why? How? That's simple - it has an efficient motor and is well designed. Similar story with the Hoover Turbopower 2's, all rated between 800w and 1200w depending on the model, but those have very strong hose suction.

I am by no means a Dyson fan, but credit where credit is due, their research and development is second to none and they've successfully managed to find a good balance between strong suction power and motor power. The highest rated Dyson was 1400w. I recently used a newer Dyson with a 1050w digital motor and was blown away (no pun intended) by how strong the suction power was.

Post# 255114 , Reply# 4   11/4/2013 at 05:53 (3,818 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The one thing I notice is that the higher the wattage of the motor, the more heat that the vacuum cleaner puts out through the exhaust. Effectively, the Purepower I have acts as a very good fan heater. When the motor is running, I tried to remove the hose bayonet from the back of the bag casing where it enters the bag hole, and the amount of back pressure being created there made me think that the hose was obstructed, but it was clear. Hoover have increased the Purepower's motor wattage but the diameter of the hose is far too small to cope with it, and this puts the motor under load, even when the hose is not blocked. The Purepower was only designed to have something like a 1200W motor originally, and they have nearly doubled its power to 2100 Watts without modifying any of the ducting for the increased suction that results.

Post# 255116 , Reply# 5   11/4/2013 at 06:28 (3,818 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
and they have nearly doubled its power to 2100 Watts

 turbo500's profile picture
rather unnecessarilly too, as the original 1200w and 1400w Purepower's had more than enough suction power and to say that the motor wattage has almost doubled, the suction isn't THAT much greater in comparison.

Post# 255120 , Reply# 6   11/4/2013 at 07:53 (3,818 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
This topic has been discussed before and though I do welcome it, I am going to reiterate what I have said in the past.

Larger appliances need to lower their usage of power. Washing machines, ovens and electric hobs that use 3000 or more watts need to be lowered. Even those expensive induction hobs that are claimed to save money have 2000 watts minimum. The average household will use far more electricity usage than running around a vacuum cleaner with high power in the day and it isn't as if as buyers or owners, we are limited to using a mains powered vacuum to pick up daily dust - enter the mechanical or cordless sweeper - so what if they don't deep clean? You don't always need to deep clean your home every day.. I suppose if you do, you'll get yourself a dirty fan upright that takes care of the carpets. Not exactly increasing your power usage there with 400 to 850 watts if using a certain clean fan upright...

Benny has a great point here regarding what has gone down in the past ("...But then somewhere in the last 20 years it all went pitifully wrong...")

What went wrong is the increasing advertising claim that the higher power a vacuum cleaner has, the better it cleans. Hoover are famous for doing this, as were its rivals, constantly putting out the claims and increasing wattage as time goes on.







This post was last edited 11/04/2013 at 08:44
Post# 255126 , Reply# 7   11/4/2013 at 09:31 (3,818 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

One of the things that really gives the lie to those marketing claims, are the power differences between Europe and the US or Canada. Am I seriously expected to believe that the 2600W Hoover sold in Italy has that much more suction than a 1200W Tristar or a 1000W Filter Queen?

Also, on the topic of hose sizes - I have to wonder why 1.25" became the standard size. On my Simplicity 6-series, for example, the hose is a lot bigger than that - at least 1.5, maybe 1.625. It narrows down for the attachments and suction feed to the brush roll, though. I'd like to see a machine with a larger-diameter hose and attachment connection that has an adapter for standard-sized attachments.

Post# 255129 , Reply# 8   11/4/2013 at 09:50 (3,818 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Ah but due to the voltage in Canada and the U.S, the models from Miele etc worldwide are exactly the same in terms of the motor. So, where our 2100 watt SEBO D2 appears to be "high" the U.S get the same model with a 1250 watt motor.

Also for hoses...

Feet to metres for UK/Europe...

That equates to 3.8 metres in European/UK market speak. The SEBO X series has a 3 metre hose as standard (9ft 10), Miele's S7 has a 3.8 metre stretch hose on board (12ft). The basic Vax Mach Air (equivalent to the design of Hoover's Windtunnel Air but with a standard short hose measures 1.1metres/ 3ft.7 which is near useless).

I think the main reason that hoses don't get any longer is the simple fact that they would add more weight to the upright design. An upright isn't a "vacuum cleaner station or trolley" where everything that was ever made to be added onto a vacuum cleaner should be stored like a trolley, though I can see how some owners might want it that way.

Sadly we can't have everything that as owners, we want with only a few exceptions. The fact that so many brands now offer universal tools right across their ranges means for the most part you can use old tools on same family line models, but then you're compromised to stay with that brand you've always had UNLESS the model you have has the older 32mm sizing, in which you can access other tools that will extend the versatility of your old vacuum from OTHER brands.

As buyers though, brands are slow on the uptake to release information on their tube/hose/tool sizing for fear of buyers running to other brands or mis matching on tools. Sadly the Internet has opened up this arena that was once kept hush or back by the dealers and companies.

Numatic Henry owners for example often end up buying main size "other brand" or universal air turbo brushes that are cheaper than the ones Numatic actually sell. Numatic's turbo brushes are very good, though from Wessel Werk originally and has been tapered to fit with 32mm sizing. However there are other Wessel Werk turbo brushes on the market that buyers can optionally consider.

Tool/hose/tube bore sizes have always been different - some brands claim that a wider bore gives better air flow and less clogging, others offer similar sizing (such as Miele and Bosch who offer same 35mm sizing) whereas the 32mm is a sizing that seems to be made by Vax (TTi), Electrolux, Hoover and major brands, even though some models sadly have the "exclusivity" of unique parts with a bigger size bore/diameter making it useless should you change down to another model from the same brand in years/months to come.

Post# 255151 , Reply# 9   11/4/2013 at 13:29 (3,818 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

It's like with Hoover Cylinders - compared to most Cylinder Vacuums where the floor tool fits OVER the extension tube, Hoover Cylinder floor tools slot INTO, not ON TO the tube which means should you want any extra floor tools, such as a Hard Floor tool or Turbo Brush, you have to fork out for Hoover Genuine ones not cheaper Versions from Qualtex for example.

Post# 255152 , Reply# 10   11/4/2013 at 13:33 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Qualtex do make copy tools for Hoover though.

Post# 255153 , Reply# 11   11/4/2013 at 13:45 (3,818 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

I know Qualtex produce copy tools Vintagerepairer but they don't make copy tools that fit the Jazz, Dust Manager Cylinder or any other Cylinder by Hoover that uses the set up of extension tube & floor tool design.

Post# 255154 , Reply# 12   11/4/2013 at 13:52 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Oh I see. How does it differ?

Post# 255155 , Reply# 13   11/4/2013 at 14:01 (3,818 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

Well most Cylinder Vacuums have the floor tool fit on to the outside of the tube whereas Hoover Cylinders have the floor tool going in to the tube.

Post# 255157 , Reply# 14   11/4/2013 at 14:05 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello. Yes I see that, but these tools are available too, to push inside a 32mm tube (Goblin) and 35mm (Hitachi). I am wondering if these cleaners you refer to use another size altogether?

Post# 255158 , Reply# 15   11/4/2013 at 14:31 (3,818 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

Perhaps they do - but a 32mm tool dosen't fit the Hoover tube.

Post# 255161 , Reply# 16   11/4/2013 at 14:44 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        
Tool or tube.

 No, not 32mm tool, a tool designed to go inside of the 32mm opening of the tube.

The original Hoover pip-fitting tools fitted inside the tube, into the 32mm opening. Goblin took up the same design in the 1980's. The only difference was that the Goblin did not have a pip, it was a push-fit design which was back-to-front when compared to the likes of Electrolux. But both Hoover and Goblin fitted the same way and indeed I often sold the Hoover patten tools for use on Goblin cleaners.

Hitachi took the exact same route, but in this instance the tool fitted into a tube with a diameter of 35mm, just like the Panasonic upright cleaners did. You may be able to tell from these pictures. All these floor tools fit into the tube, rather than the tube fitting into the tool.

First, Goblin, to fit INSIDE the 32mm end of a tube.


Post# 255162 , Reply# 17   11/4/2013 at 14:45 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Next, Hoover with pip to fit INSIDE the 32mm end of a tube which has the lock-rings.

Post# 255163 , Reply# 18   11/4/2013 at 14:46 (3,818 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Finally, Hitachi, to fit INSIDE a tube which has a 35mm diameter.

Post# 255164 , Reply# 19   11/4/2013 at 14:50 (3,818 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Rubbish!? I will not bother to explain why I disagree, as others have done so, but I will say that if you research into HOW vacuum cleaners work and actually tried some vintage machines, you'd realise that wattages NEED to be restricted.

Post# 255165 , Reply# 20   11/4/2013 at 14:58 (3,818 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Vintage machines Jamie - like a Hoover Ranger maybe?

Post# 255166 , Reply# 21   11/4/2013 at 14:59 (3,818 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)        

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I have a 1300 watt Hoover Purepower and a 2100 watt Purepower and the hose suction is bearly different, they are about the same.
Now my Turbopower 3 has a 1000 watt motor and so does my Turbopower 1000 (naturally) and I feel the Turbopower 3 has stronger hose suction because of the improved airflow design, don't get me wrong though, the Turbopower 1000 is very powerful and probably was the most powerful upright in 1992!!



This post was last edited 11/04/2013 at 15:40
Post# 255167 , Reply# 22   11/4/2013 at 15:09 (3,818 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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You know me too well Steve!!

In honesty though, I was talking about the Electrolux Contours and Turbopowers which managed to have tremendous hose suction with less than 1000W.

Post# 255171 , Reply# 23   11/4/2013 at 15:26 (3,818 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

The Henry Autosave aint bad either on half power (about 600W). It produces enough suction to drive the Airobrush head without the need for full power.
The Purepower I have rated at 2100W is ridiculously powerful, and the motor gets very hot as a consequence, so much of the increased power only goes to heat the room in which the vac is being used.

My Kirby uses less than 1000W and it stays nice and cool. As a dirty fan it picks up from carpets excellently, but hose suction is not brilliant, however it will drive a Vax turbo tool quite effectively.

Look after the power hungry 1500W+ vacs of today - they will be tomorrow's dinosaurs. Look at how all the big engine cars have died out, and how everyone drives around in small engine cars of less than 1.5Litres now.
Who wants big 2.5litre Mondeos now?

Bigger WAS better, but as the Americans are now finding out, gas guzzlers are a dying breed as the price of fuel goes through the roof. As electricity keeps getting ever more expensive, like we use energy saving light bulbs, we should use energy saving vacuums as well - just like the Hoover Ranger was. It used just 450W.

Post# 255172 , Reply# 24   11/4/2013 at 15:32 (3,818 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Indeed Steve, things will make a full circle.

Back only 30 years ago you would be hard pushed to find a car in America with an engine smaller than 5000CI, but now the only vehicles with engines that size are busses! Thing is though, at least large rumbling V8 motors had their advantages, what does a high pitched screaming power sucking electric motor have in its favour? Nothing, in my opinion.

Post# 255173 , Reply# 25   11/4/2013 at 15:34 (3,818 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        
"like we use energy saving light bulbs"

 jmurray01's profile picture
Ha, you might - but it is incandescent for me!

Post# 255174 , Reply# 26   11/4/2013 at 15:41 (3,818 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

I seem to remember that the loudest and most powerful screamer motors were introduced on the Dyson DC07, developing 280Airwatts.
The most powerful vac I have is the Siemens Z6 which has a massive 2500W consumption at full power. Its crazy aint it that some vacs now are rated higher than an electric Kettle, a combination Microwave, or a convector heater?

Its always worth it though to collect vacs with power inputs across the whole range, right from 250W with the Junior, up to the huge 2.5KW of the Siemens Z6. That's 10 Times the power rating of the humble Hoover Junior. That's a current draw of 10 Amps on the 250V mains.

Post# 255176 , Reply# 27   11/4/2013 at 15:52 (3,818 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Wattages need to be restricted Jamie? Are you sure that's your opinion?

Rewind back to an earlier post you created on here. Your Dream Vacuum Cleaner - and I quote...:

"For me:

2000 Watt Clean Fan Motor with Variable Speed
10 Litre Bag
Four Stage Filtration
Brush & Beater bar with a clutch to stop spinning when the cleaner is upright
Head Lamp
Stretchable hose capable of cleaning 20 stairs
A sliding switch to change the motor speed from 1400W-1800W, completely variable
"TURBO" Button to increase wattage to full 2000W
LCD Screen displaying; current motor speed, bag fill level (a sensor would be fitted to detect the exact bag level), height adjustment level, belt condition (a sensor on the brush roll would detect any belt slippage), and an hour meter displaying the total hours the cleaner has been used for.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK
Post# 255185 , Reply# 28   11/4/2013 at 17:06 (3,818 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Well remembered Ryan, but please also note that that was over 1 and a half years ago and in my defense I was far less experienced then.



Post# 255188 , Reply# 29   11/4/2013 at 17:22 (3,818 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Take a look at the 1960s Amercan Electrolux model G; powerful suction & it only runs at 535 Watts (Not sure how many amps it uses)  I bet the old Model G will OUTCLEAN ANYTHING made today!


This post was last edited 11/04/2013 at 23:01
Post# 255191 , Reply# 30   11/4/2013 at 17:46 (3,818 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
1940s General-Electric,

 super-sweeper's profile picture

Keeps chugging on @ 300 Watts.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO super-sweeper's LINK
Post# 255193 , Reply# 31   11/4/2013 at 18:42 (3,818 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Hang on! - What about appliances such as Hairdryers? Are they within this law too? The highest powered one I've seen is 2600w & they're the ones used in my local hairdressers.

Post# 255194 , Reply# 32   11/4/2013 at 18:46 (3,818 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Also, just to add to previous post. Most Hairdryers average these days from 2000w - 2200w which is about the same as most Vacuums.

Post# 255197 , Reply# 33   11/4/2013 at 19:49 (3,817 days old) by constellation86 (Roy, UT)        

Here in the United States we are limited to 1440 watts, and I think even that is too much. My Tristar uses 1080 watts and will almost suck the paint off the walls. My old Electroluxes do a good job with 535 watts. 2000 watts is a ridiculous amount of waste!
Nicholas

Post# 255200 , Reply# 34   11/4/2013 at 20:47 (3,817 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
So, if you have more experience now to form an opinion that vacuum wattage should be lowered, why have you got a Vax Performance C91PF1BT? Doesn't that have 2000 watts??

Post# 255245 , Reply# 35   11/5/2013 at 03:00 (3,817 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
What about appliances such as Hairdryers?

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Don't even get me started on kettles. One of the most high powered appliances in the home and one that wastes the most electricity.

Post# 255252 , Reply# 36   11/5/2013 at 04:53 (3,817 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Vacuum cleaner motors-since most of these are the universal AC-DC brush type motors-keep in mind the wattage marked on the motor is not what it draws during "normal" vacuum cleaner use-the ACTUAL draw of the motor will be considerably less.The nameplate rating is a LABORATORY rating for the motor loaded to its max rating(the nameplate rating is that where the motor can run contiously before burn out) before it burns up.And for comparing hair dryers to vacuums-the hair dryer has a HEATING element in it that will draw MORE power than the vacuums motor-the hair dryer fan motor is usually under 100W.The largest vacuum motor in my collection is the 15A 120V motor in my Tornado wet-dry vac-and this motor is drawing less than 15A during normal vacuum use.The motor could be "loaded" to a max of 15A or 1800W.Another wet-dry Shop Vac I have uses a "12A" motor.

Post# 255284 , Reply# 37   11/5/2013 at 10:47 (3,817 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

Who has a Vax Performance sebo_fan?

Post# 255289 , Reply# 38   11/5/2013 at 12:18 (3,817 days old) by matt8808 (Teesside - North East - UK)        

I personally welcome this change too. Its about time manufacturers were made to stop compensating poor design with an overpowered motor. My Henry autosave is more than powerful enough on the eco 600w setting. The 1200w high setting is only really needed for deep cleans.

Post# 255305 , Reply# 39   11/5/2013 at 14:31 (3,817 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Kettles and hairdryers.

 A high-wattage electric kettle gets the water heated much faster, so -as with many heated appliances- overall it is far better to be using a high wattage kettle because the time spent doing it's job is, overall, significantly shorter than a lower wattage equivalent which takes a whole lot longer. So, a 3kw flat-disc kettle uses 50% more electricity than a 2000 watt standard kettle during operation, but the operation time to bring a quantity of water to the boil is so much lower. With washing machines, the quantity of water used is so much lower than it used to be, and to that end heating times are a lot shorter as a result. So again, energy savings are made.

Now, a more powerful hairdryer should, in theory, dry hair much more quickly, thus the operation time is lower when compared to a lower wattage alternative, like the kettle, although in this instance a number of variables come into play, namely whether or not the user can tolerate the heat, noise, and airflow of a hairdryer which can consume as much as 2.5kw. My instincts tell me probably not, thus the user may well choose a lower setting for maximum comfort. Of course, if this type of hairdryer is being used in a commercial salon, then that is not good on many levels. Commercial hairdryers are still very cheap to buy for those in the trade, some of which are still rated at around 1200 watts (though I appreciate that some are a lot higher).

But with the vacuum cleaner, set at full power, the motor is consuming maximum wattage from the word go, but this of course lead does not lead to an increase in the speed at which cleaning is carried out. It is more of an issue on vacuum cleaners than anything else, because history has proven that a good design can yield decent suction power, without the need for an overly high wattage motor.

Post# 255307 , Reply# 40   11/5/2013 at 14:41 (3,817 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

Well, my current hairdryer uses 2100w of power. My previous one had 2200w but the 2100w one has so much more airflow compared to the more powerful one. I think it's the same principle as Vacuums, it's all about design & how well manufactured it is. I was quite surprised actually.

Post# 255308 , Reply# 41   11/5/2013 at 14:56 (3,817 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)        
Hmmm....

 The idea is great, a lot of vacuums from Hoover/Candy now are WAY too powerful. For example, todays Purepowers have 2100W, that just wastes energy. Often Candy put a 2000W motor in to make up for poor design.

On the other hand, 1400W is a good amount of Wattage, also not being too big either. I wouldn't want to see European politicians saying that they need to be reduced. Anything above 1400W I would not go for.

That's that from me...



Post# 255312 , Reply# 42   11/5/2013 at 15:28 (3,817 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()        

What do you think will happen to the cheapy brands of vacuums you can find in places such as B&M Bargains? For example B&M sell Prolex machines that use 2000w motors. Do you think these Vacs will go away or not?

Post# 255314 , Reply# 43   11/5/2013 at 15:32 (3,817 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Limits

 If a vacuum cleaner is restricted in wattage to, lets say, 1200 watts, then all cheap vacs will have no choice to but to comply. No one can complain if they don't like it as it will be all that is available. If anything, it will be setting a new bench-mark for manufacturers to work to. They will have no choice but to design cleaners which work better IF they want to compete on quality.

However, if they are competing on price only, well, they will stay as they are, albeit using the new lower wattage motors.

Post# 255352 , Reply# 44   11/5/2013 at 19:04 (3,817 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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HI-Lo - Jamie appears to own a Vax Performance 2000 watt vacuum - look at his profile.

I should also mention that not everyone is happy to shop at BN and they won't sell vacuums for ever - plus my nearest location store doesn't sell any vacuums at all.

Before the likes of BN, there was Poundstretcher, forever selling those Electrolux based Contour Dirt Devil uprights and Dirt Devil cylinder vacuums. Even when you find supermarkets doing their exclusive "similar" floorcare models, they are not all conforming to low power at present though I remember Poundstretcher selling 1200 watt "Eco" versions of Dirt Devil cylinder vacs and you get what you pay for there - plastic tubes and plastic everything.

As for Hoover, the highest will probably continue -their new Athos cylinder vacuum that's just been launched has a 2500 watt motor. I wouldn't be surprised if Hoover Europe add that to the Purepower upright eventually.

But then when you consider premium uprights like Miele's S7, it too has 1800 watts.


Post# 255355 , Reply# 45   11/5/2013 at 23:02 (3,816 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
By the way, to all concerned. You might have read this already. There is an energy usage report that provides interesting information and is free to download. It dates from 2011 but I feel it still has bearing. Though based on U.S data, there are some interesting comparisons and links to European info. (Link below)

A couple of screenshots...the first relating to American vacuums amps, which by my calculations roughly translate to 1440 watts, 1200 watts and 960 watts and a rough saving of £5 over that "7 year period."



CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK
Post# 255356 , Reply# 46   11/5/2013 at 23:04 (3,816 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Second pic -

Post# 255387 , Reply# 47   11/6/2013 at 12:36 (3,816 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

I like how in the link, they say that 'experts fear that eco machines will be less efficient at picking up grime, mud & pet hair'. Um no, just design them better then they won't be so freaking bad.

Also, James Dyson described less powerful models as 'unrepresentative' of everyday family life. Well if Vacuum Cleaners that are around 900w-1200w aren't good enough for the modern home, then Sir James is shooting himself in the foot there, as most of his vacuums are 900w-1200w (I think, don't quote me on it) & he's saying that they're not powerful enough.

IMHO I am glad this is actually going ahead, the wattages just keep going up. I will encourage companies who use High Power Motors such as Hoover & Vax to pull their finger out, either that or go bust.

I can't think of a Vax that uses a motor less than 1200w, perhaps there is one, I don't know. And to think, this time next year we could see Vacuums that have 'gone back in time'.

Post# 255388 , Reply# 48   11/6/2013 at 12:37 (3,816 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

Actually the Vax Mach Air uses a 1200w motor I think.

Post# 255397 , Reply# 49   11/6/2013 at 13:48 (3,816 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Dyson

 I too thought he was contradicting all that he has produced.

In fact if anything, he would be a perfect individual to speak for the argument FOR a cap on wattages, by explaining how his desigeners have been able to get maximum suction from what are -by today's standards- low wattage cleaners.

Post# 255402 , Reply# 50   11/6/2013 at 14:39 (3,816 days old) by HI-LOswitch98 ()        

You're right there, vintagerepairer. He would be the perfect person to explain to other manufacturers that design is important, not motor wattage.

Post# 255405 , Reply# 51   11/6/2013 at 15:36 (3,816 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

Heck, just looking at a 1960s-era Royal should tell folks that.


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