Thread Number: 21123
Measuring CFM? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 236573   6/14/2013 at 23:26 (3,962 days old) by KirbysNphones ()        

I was wondering what tool or meter would be used for measuring CFM for vacuums? I'm not having much luck finding one. The only one I know of is the Baird meter, and I only found one place that even sells them! (goodvac, I think) Plus, the Baird is just a scale of 1-10, not CFM afaik.

And also what are some of the vacs with the best performance in terms of CFM or water lift?

Thanks!


Post# 236594 , Reply# 1   6/15/2013 at 09:15 (3,961 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Ive been led to believe that even if a vacuum has high CFM it doesn't ensure success or offer best performance - again like air watts, its all about whether the vacuum in question has a sealed suction unit.

Post# 236596 , Reply# 2   6/15/2013 at 09:39 (3,961 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

I went to Google and typed in "measuring air flow CFM" and one of the sponsored links on the right was advertising a CFM air flow meter at Home Depot for $649.00. They must carry them, but perhaps only online. Vacuum experts say that this is important to a vac's performance and so is water lift and brushroll speed, design, etc. The three act in tandem to clean. Most companies use a little trickery to brag about air flow and water lift. They are measured at the vacuum opening, not at the end of the nozzle/hose/etc. However, it remains a fact of nature that the higher the water lift and air flow numbers, the better it will perform with the filters, bag, and hose in place. You must have strong suction to lift dirt from deep in carpeting.

Some of the most powerful household vacuum's in terms of water lift are Aerus Lux Guardian Platinum, Riccar Immaculate, Miele's S8 series, and probably Filter Queen and SEBO also. The Aerus, Riccar, and Miele have water lift's of 100" or better. I am not familiar with SEBO and Filter Queen's number right away. Rexair Rainbow is equipped with 90-95" water lift and never loses it. All these are canister cleaners of course, which are far more powerful than upright cleaners. And of course the Kirby is also very powerful for an upright vacuum but it won't approach these (and it doesn't need to as it is a direct air upright). It used to be that water lift numbers above 100" were unheard of in anything other than central vacs, but the gap is closing all the time. Technology now exists to place huge motors in canisters and still remain fairly quiet. I hope one day soon we will see canisters at 150"! LOL

Post# 236602 , Reply# 3   6/15/2013 at 10:11 (3,961 days old) by KirbysNphones ()        

150" water lift and 100 CFM! and $600+ for a meter is just ridiculous, as the Baird meter was like $50 on Goodvac!

I can see how CFM and water lift would be in tandem, just like volts, watts and amps. Also, the design of the fan would add to this too, you could put an industrial 3 phase motor with insane RPM on a crappy fan, and not get good suction, whereas a decent 120 volt motor with a well designed fan assembly would do better.

Post# 236605 , Reply# 4   6/15/2013 at 10:30 (3,961 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
In terms of CFM

 blackheart's profile picture
you cannot be a direct air machine i have a baird meter the kirby G6 measures in at a 10 at the fan a 7 at the end of a hose

The most powerful canister i've measured was the Kenmore Magic Blue which also pulled a 10/10 i was shocked

I've measured some of the vacs i have if you are interested here's what i have recorded
Vita vac (airway) with the Airtech cloth bags pulls a 6 with paper 4
Dirt Devil Deluxe 3/10
Dyson DC-11 2/10
Dyson DC-17 1.5/10
Electrolux olympia 4.5/10
Hoover Celebrity II Elite 3/10
Hoover Windtunnel Plus 8/10
Lindhaus Aria Platinum (measured at a vac store 6.5/10
Miele Silver Moon 5/10
Patriot 5.5/10
Riccar 1700 5.5/10
Royal Classic Power Tank 2.5/10
Simplicity 7 series 7.5/10
Silver King Blue max 3
Thermax AF1 .5
Tristar CXL 5
Tristar CXL 5

I know i have measured others but i cannot recall their numbers

Post# 236612 , Reply# 5   6/15/2013 at 11:36 (3,961 days old) by KirbysNphones ()        

Cool info Blackheart! Now I need to get myself a Baird Meter and see what my Filter Queens do, as well as my older Kirbys

Post# 236622 , Reply# 6   6/15/2013 at 13:48 (3,961 days old) by a007kirbyman (--->> Originally My Mom <<--- (now Wisconsin))        
kirbysnphones (Will) & Baird AirFlo Meter...

 a007kirbyman's profile picture
Hello Will.

If you haven't already acquired the Baird AirFlo Meter elsewhere, shoot me an email. I sent you an email with my contact info.

If you have, keep me in mind next time as a source for your Genuine Kirby wants & needs. I'm sure I will be able to save you substantially.

I carry only Genuine Kirby parts.

I can do new (or demoed/used, currently) & $ave you $$$ vs. posted above amount.

Cheers & hagr8wknd all,

Bill

Post# 236895 , Reply# 7   6/17/2013 at 20:37 (3,959 days old) by crock ()        

The issue is that you need to measure both airflow and inches of water at the same time to get a good idea of a vacuum's ability. As was said earlier the brush roll and the seal are also factors that determine the vacuum's performance. The Baird meter is a combination of CFM and inches water that gives a performance rating on Baird's proprietary 1-10 scale.It is a pretty good system and useful because so many others in the vacuum industry use it as a standard.If you want to compare airflow between different vacuum's you need to do so at a standard inches of water height suction. So you might choose 30 inches of water to compare all the vacuum's airflow in Cubic Feet Per Minute (CFM). The cheapest instrument that will do this a rotary vane airflow meter. They cost around $300 new and around $100 on Ebay. You would be looking for one that operated in the 20-100 CFM airflow rate. You also need a manometer to set the vacuum's "pull" at 30 Inches of Water.The Manometer runs another $100 on Ebay. So you can see, measuring the airflow is not a cheap proposition. To compare vacuums you must measure the airflow at the same inches of water height suction. Since there is no standard for the inches of water height suction between manufacturers, comparing manufacturer claims for airflow is pretty much worthless.

Post# 237055 , Reply# 8   6/19/2013 at 11:47 (3,957 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Okay some more numbers

 blackheart's profile picture
Dirt Devil Deluxe 3/10
Dirt Devil Pro series powerpak canvac 1/10 (it does have bearing issues but i don't know exactly how much this would effect it's performance)
Dyson DC-07 2 (side port leading to diverter)
Electrolux 3500 SR 0/10 (hose)
Electrolux Olympia 3.5
Filter Queen Triple Crown 4/10
Filter Queen 75th anniversary 2.5/10
Filtropur 0.5/10
Hoover Dial a matic 2.5 (tool port) 1 (hose to brushroll)
Kirby Heritage 5/10 (hose)
Lindhaus Activa 0/10
Lindhaus Healthcare Pro 2.5/10
Oreck Buster B 0/10
Panasonic Jetflo 0/10 (old bag no new ones on hand)
Rainbow D3 0/10 (tried with both non electric and D4 hose)
Rainbow D4 SE 0/10
Sebo 370 2/10
Tristar EXL 4.5/10
Tristar MG2 1.5/10
Windsor Sensor S12 0/10

I found the tristars quite shocking the EXL has a dual stage motor and just destroyed the single stage (VM3 if i do recall) MG1 in terms of airflow


Post# 237064 , Reply# 9   6/19/2013 at 13:39 (3,957 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
The Baird Meter was designed to make a Kirby look good. There are actual airflow meters used by manufacturers, as well as electronic water lift gauges. The airflow meter is actually a digital wind speed meter. There's a little fan inside that's turned by the airflow and the digital readout is absolutely accurate. Both of these instruments are very expensive.

The Vacuum Collectors Convention is starting tomorrow at the Vacuum Cleaner Museum here in St. James. After the tour of the factory, I'm taking everyone into the testing labs, and we'll actually get accurate reading of many cleaners, new and vintage. I'll post pics of the results in a separate picture thread about the Convention tomorrow.

Post# 237099 , Reply# 10   6/19/2013 at 20:02 (3,957 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
That will be interesting

 blackheart's profile picture
Looking forward to seeing it Tom.

Post# 237111 , Reply# 11   6/20/2013 at 01:45 (3,956 days old) by beerad (Beautiful Vancouver BC)        
Filter-Queen

 Does 85 - 90 cfm average.

Post# 237364 , Reply# 12   6/22/2013 at 21:31 (3,954 days old) by kenkart ()        
Of the old cleaners..

 1950s and 60s vintage, the Apex Strato Cleaner and Sunbeam dual deluxe will pull the Baird meter all the way back with a SNAP! at the machine, I dont know about the end of hose performance.

Post# 275181 , Reply# 13   4/7/2014 at 22:19 (3,665 days old) by 123go (USA)        
Well where are they?

 So' Im guessing all the super duper testing after the collectors convention never happened? I dont see a link & I cant find anything? Did they all just fail these tests or what?..lol



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