Thread Number: 20611
Electrolux Model G Motor Slowing
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Post# 230778   5/1/2013 at 07:16 (3,984 days old) by erikd ()        

Hello, I'm new to this forum and could use a little advice. I have a Factory Refurbished Model G (Hammertone Blue) that was purchased "re-newed" back in the early 70's and then handed down to me when I left home for college in the 90's. It's been a faithful companion ever since. Lately I've noticed while vacuuming, on occasion (not too frequently), the motor will make a sort of growling noise (sounds like I've sucked up a bunch of gravel) with an accompanied slow down of the motor. I usually switch off the vacuum when I hear this. When I switch back on a few seconds later it seems normal. Would anyone here know what might be the causing this, brushes, bearings? If the slow down was not accompanied by any strange noise I would be thinking electrical, brushes or switch but the noise has me questioning. I really love this machine! I've been using it for 40+ years and would like to keep it going for another.




This post was last edited 05/01/2013 at 11:32
Post# 230779 , Reply# 1   5/1/2013 at 07:41 (3,984 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)        

scvacuumguy's profile picture
My vote is for bearings.

Post# 230782 , Reply# 2   5/1/2013 at 08:09 (3,984 days old) by vaclover (Freestate, Virginia, South Africa)        
my vorwerk vk117...

I have a vorwerk vk 117 when you switch it on when its cold its making flames at the one side of the commutator and the motor is running slow but i block the intake so it can speed up and after a while like a few minutes or so it starts revving up and then theres no sparks or flames at the commutator and it works perfectly even when switched on and off but when it cools down again like an hour or so its doing the same.what can that be?brushes?bearings?sticky commutator maybe?please any kind of help would be great!!!i have already replaced the brass bush with a bearing.

Post# 230783 , Reply# 3   5/1/2013 at 08:40 (3,984 days old) by s31463221 (Frenchburg, KY)        
Erik

s31463221's profile picture
I too am inclined to think the bearings are getting worn and causing the "growling" noise and the motor slowing down. I'm not sure how comfortable you are in tearing into this machine's motor to check the bearings/brushes/armature, etc. but if you are willing to try it, you may want to see if you can get in contact with Nathan Thomas (electroluxdude) on here. He really knows his stuff when it comes to tearing into and rebuilding these Electrolux electric motors. They are indeed wonderful machines and I really hope you get your machine fixed for many more years of use! Good luck!

Steve


Post# 230802 , Reply# 4   5/1/2013 at 11:31 (3,984 days old) by erikd ()        

I'm an engineer so don't have any issues at all with taking the machine apart. I was just looking for some insight as to where I should focus attention or common problems that I should address.  Maybe part numbers for the bearings. I'm assuming the motor will need 2 bearings. Does the fan assembly require any maintenance, any bearings in there?  I guess I'm at a loss right now, not having opened the machine before.  I really don't know what to expect.


Post# 230821 , Reply# 5   5/1/2013 at 12:51 (3,984 days old) by s31463221 (Frenchburg, KY)        
Erik

s31463221's profile picture
Alright! If you're comfortable tearing that thing open, I'm going to post a copy of an old posting that Nathan Thomas posted back in the archives on how to go through the motors, replacing/repairing necessary items, etc. His instructions are for a later model Super J Electrolux, but the motors are practically the same, I believe this is something you will find useful....I know it's helped me out of many scrapes when I'm tearing these motors apart!

"Hey, Guys, Nathan Here, I will be glad to help you re-build your Super-J's. To access the motors, here are some the steps you will need to take.

The first thing you will need to do is to remove the top trim cover. It is held on by 3 screws--2 of which are located underneath the blower door. A third screw, usually phillips, is near the rear of the machine by the switch. After removing the top trim, there are 3 screws that hold on the cordwinder. 2 of the screws are on the top, and there is another screw on the bottom of the machine. They are phillips. After removing the 3 screws, you will need to disconnect the clear tube from off the top of the cordwinder. Your cordwinder can then be removed. Disconnect the 2 wires from the cordwinder. To gain access to the motor unit, there are 4 size 11/32 nuts inside the machine. You will need a long socket to get to them. After you remove the 4 nuts, you can then pull the plastic motor cover out. Disconnect the wire that has the little white plastic connector on it, you will have to separate the two little "Wings" that snap it in place. This isn't very hard, I just use my fingers. After you have disconnected the wires, you can pull your motor out for service. To gain access to the inside of the motor, loosen the 4 screws that are located on the fan housings. If your fan housings are rusty, you will have to loosen them with WD-40. If not, they should come apart relatively easy. I sometimes use a flat-head screwdriver and tap them apart. Loosen the 3/4 size nut on the top fan, remove the top fan, the middle housing, and the bottom fan. Make sure that you label your fans, TOP for top, and BOTTOM for bottom. They must be replaced in the exact order as removal. I will say this about Super-J's--They are notorious for having bad armatures.Replacement Armatures are usually available from places like HESCO, Electric Sweeper, etc. Check your website for Vacuum Cleaner Replacement Parts. I have sometimes taken the motor out of an old Lux 1205 and put it in. This is not hard to do, you simply have to modify the wiring of the 1205's motor a little. It is worth it to rebuild the motors though, as once they have been cleaned and have new bearings, armature and new motor brushes, they will be as good as new. To continue to clean your motor, use an old brush and dish-washing soap, and wash and clean the fields, and clean the fans the same way. To gain access to the bearing, there are 3 screws that hold the bearing housing to the motor, they are phillips screws. Remove the screws and then you will have full access to the motor and fields. Clean the motor thoroughly. After cleaning, dry the motor with a hair dryer. To replace the bearing, you will need to drill out the pop rivets in the bearing plate. Bearings are readily available, from any bearing supply house. Remove carbon brushes, which are held in by a wire with a clip-on connector on it. I highly recommend replacing the brushes, as on a vacuum that is more than 30 years old, it's just simply a good idea. To re-assemble, simply reverse my directions. If you will carefully follow my directions, and, with a good cleaning, your vacuum should work like new! If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. My e-mail is: thetrain48@yahoo.com.

Happy to be of assistance
Nathan L. Thomas
Electrolux-Dude"


Post# 230834 , Reply# 6   5/1/2013 at 14:12 (3,984 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        
Model G

dysonman1's profile picture
Has only one ball bearing. The bearing at the commutator end is a sleeve bearing. There are really only two things it could be. If the bearing was indeed bad, you'd hear the noise constantly. It would never go away. The other thing causing the motor to slow down is a carbon brush stuck in it's brush tube. I see this ALL the time with older Luxes. Remove the carbon brush and holder from each side of the motor. Remove the brush and use a Q-tip with rubbing alcohol to clean the brush tube. Also make sure the open end of the tube that faces the commutator hasn't been damaged. Sometimes they are, and won't allow the brush to come through. Easy fix really. Reseat the brushes after reassembling using a carbon brush seating stone (if you can't find one, a lead pencil will work). Hold the seating stone against the commutator of the running motor for a few seconds, and it will seat the brush to the commutator perfectly.

Post# 230835 , Reply# 7   5/1/2013 at 14:21 (3,984 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
@dysonman1 If any vacuum's bearings are bad, would it be making an odd noise all the time? or could the sound come and go?

Thanks,

- Joe


Post# 230837 , Reply# 8   5/1/2013 at 14:58 (3,984 days old) by kenkart ()        
I think!

Tom has got it, I have had similar problems with Eluxes in the past, the brushes will occasionally stick causing the motor to make weird noises.

Post# 230852 , Reply# 9   5/1/2013 at 17:42 (3,983 days old) by erikd ()        

Thanks so much everyone! Just the kind of advice I was looking for! You guys rock! Those instructions are sweet! I'll be operating this weekend. I'll let you all know what I find.

Thanks again,
Erik


Post# 230863 , Reply# 10   5/1/2013 at 18:55 (3,983 days old) by kirbykid63 (Wilmington Delaware)        
Sounds like brushes and fan bearing

I tear the model G's down all the time,most cases the brushes are worn to the springs,and the fan bearing is worn,it is possible the armature is grooved and shorting out in this case look for a rebuilt model G motor or salvage armature.I have also installed 1205 armatures in G motors that works just fine.

Richard Groski
new2youvacuums on eBay.


Post# 231086 , Reply# 11   5/3/2013 at 16:53 (3,981 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        
@ultimatevacman

dysonman1's profile picture
If a ball bearing is bad, it will always cause noise and vibration, at start up, during running, and upon shut down. In a few instances of very old cleaner being used for the first time in decades, the grease in the ball bearing has to be liquefied by running in order to lubricate the balls in the bearing. But generally, a bad bearing will always make the noise.

Post# 231131 , Reply# 12   5/4/2013 at 02:43 (3,981 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
Oh right, that's interesting, because I have a Numatic Henry that sometimes makes a high pitched whine every now and then, but never on start up or shut down, and usually happens after a few minutes of vacuuming.

Post# 231433 , Reply# 13   5/6/2013 at 07:38 (3,979 days old) by erikd ()        

Okay, so I took the machine apart this weekend. It really didn't look too bad. I'd say the brushes were at about 70% and the bearing didn't seem to be worn out. I did replace these parts anyway and cleaned everything including the brush holders. The armature was smooth. I could not detect any grooving. I'm not feeling too optimistic because I just don't think I found a problem. I guess time will tell. If the symptom occurs again I'm looking at an armature problem, possible intermittent short in a winding perhaps? Is the only alternative a donor machine or is a replacement motor available for the G?


Post# 231441 , Reply# 14   5/6/2013 at 09:51 (3,979 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
Erikd:

kirbylux77's profile picture
I do hate to have to be the bearer of bad news, but I think your motor will require replacing the motor entirely. With our Canadian Electrolux vacuums, in which the motor is VERY similar to yours, when the motor starts to "slow down", & yet the bearings & carbon brushes are fine, it's a sign the motor is dying. At least the motor gives you some warning, though....unlike some other "normal" canister vacuum motors in which it just won't turn on again or start to smoke.

Rob



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