Thread Number: 19184
Help! Shopping for New Vacuum and Overwhelmed
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Post# 211764   12/30/2012 at 08:51 (2,748 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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Hello all -- I'm new to the board. I'm using a Fantom Thunder I purchased in 1997 that I've been thrilled with but am looking to replace for reasons which I'll explain shortly. I understand Fantom reviews have been mixed at best; apparently I either bought early enough (it seems most of the Fantom problems are with post-'98 models) or I just got lucky; 16 years of nearly constant use and never a problem -- none of the electrical failures or power losses that seem to plague many units. Living in an apartment in Manhattan with a variety of floor surfaces (hardwood, thick plush and shag rugs, and linoleum), and lots of furniture creating many nooks and crannies, I've been forever grateful for Fantom's ingenious "wand" design that allows immediate switching between beater brush to hose, which I do frequently every time I sweep. I have been consistently blown away by the unit's suction, and the volume of crap it picks up even during my "light" cleaning days.

OK. Now the reason for which I'm shopping around to replace my beloved Fantom. First of all, it's about as loud as a Boeing 737 just before takeoff. Living in an apartment in Manhattan, this severely limits my ability to vacuum to no earlier than 8 AM and no later than 9 PM (which for most people is no problem, but for myself, who works odd hours and frequently does the housecleaning between 10 PM and 1 AM, creates an inconvenience).

Second -- and more primarily -- it's dusty. VERY dusty. Emptying the bagless chamber sends up a plume of dust in my kitchen, and I find I have to actually wipe the entire unit down each time I use it.

That's really my only complaint, but it's a nagging one.

So I've been looking at the entire universe of vacuum cleaners that seems to have expanded by leaps and bounds since I purchased my Fantom 16 years ago, and I'm really at a loss and could use some advice.

-- I have an unlimited budget. Money is no object; I'm willing to pay for quality.
-- I have no preference over upright versus canister, but (correct me if I'm wrong) it's my understanding that uprights clean carpeting better than canisters. My preference is to have whatever performs best on my rugs versus whatever works best on ALL surfaces.
-- I've been partial to Kirby because of it's apparent pure suction power, but the deal-killer has always been that you can't deploy the hose attachments without a major hassle.

After exhaustive research, I've tentatively settled on Miele's top of the line upright. I'm impressed with the quality, the "swivel" design, and the entirely closed bagging system.

But here's the detail that's keeping me from making the purchase: The VOLUME of "dirt" that the unit picks up. The bags in both the Miele upright and canister models are quite small. And what little I've heard about the frequency of bag changes is that with "average" use I can expect to change them at most once a month.


Once a month??!! I have to empty out the dust chamber on my Fantom (which appears to hold at least TWICE as much capacity as the Miele bags) after EVERY SINGLE USE!

Common sense is telling me that while my Fantom is apparently blowing dust all over the place, it's still trapping a good EIGHT TIMES as much crap as what the Miele apparently picks up.

Comments, anyone??

Post# 211768 , Reply# 1   12/30/2012 at 09:11 (2,748 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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It is hard to compare the two vacuums as far as volume of dirt picked up. There are all sorts of factors involved, including the differences in how a bagless vac spins the dirt and how a bagged vac compacts the dirt in a bag. If you had wall-to-wall carpeting everywhere, you'd be better off with separate upright and canister cleaners because you can get uprights with very large bags. But since you have a mix, you will probably not need to change the bag that frequently. It all depends on how dirty your home gets (dusty location, open windows, kids or pets, etc)

If expense is no option, the Miele uprights are top rated in Consumer Reports and excel at noise reduction. Some find these uprights a bit heavy, so the best alternative is the Sebo Felix Premium at $600. It׳s a very lightweight upright vac that offers lots of optional attachments. It's also very quiet and has a decent size bag. Go to the Sebo website for more details. Or search Youtube for some videos on this easy to use vac. Good luck!

Post# 211769 , Reply# 2   12/30/2012 at 09:11 (2,748 days old) by singingrainbow (Texas)        

First of all, you must remember that your fantom has cyclonic action, and that this spins the dust around inside the bin which causes a "fluffing" effect on the dust which makes it look like more than is really there. The miele bag system does the opposite and has a compacting effect. This is a common misconception, but remember that when you empty the fantom, the dirt is full of air. A full miele bag will be like a brick. Now I don't want to start an argument over which will clean carpets better, but a canister vacuum with a good power head can clean carpets just as well as an upright, but it depends on which upright and canister you are comparing. I own both a fantom thunder and a top of the line miele upright and at least in my home, the miele does an overall better job.When I first got it some years ago and ran it around for the first time, I could hear it pulling dirt out of our carpets. One other thing to consider is that the miele is a heavier upright because it has two motors, one for the brush and one for suction.

If you can, try going to a vacuum store which sells them and try if for yourself so you can get an idea of how it would be in use.

Hope this helps!


Post# 211773 , Reply# 3   12/30/2012 at 09:31 (2,748 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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Thank you both for the quick responses!

I never thought of the "fluffing" effect of my Fantom's cyclonic action. And of course, I've never emptied a full Miele dust bag, so I was unaware of the "brick" effect.

Now that Sebo has entered the discussion, any thoughts on Sebo vs. Miele?

Post# 211774 , Reply# 4   12/30/2012 at 09:40 (2,748 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Just some other differences between the Sebo Felix and the Miele uprights:

The Mieles have a headlight, the Sebo power head does not.

You can get an optional extension hose for the Sebo which will make using attachments even easier. You can't get a longer extension hose for the Miele uprights.

The Sebo allows you to remove the power nozzle completely and attach a smaller parquet floor brush which turns the vac into an electric broom which is MUCH more maneuverable in a small apartment filled with furniture. You can also buy an optional shoulder strap to carry the main unit like a canister to clean your furniture.

Not sure how long the cord is on the Mieles, but the Sebo Felix has a nice long 35 foot cord.

Here is a youtube clip from a vac shop showing some of the great features of this multifunction vac:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO eurekaprince's LINK

Post# 211787 , Reply# 5   12/30/2012 at 11:14 (2,748 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

The new aerus lux platinum is a great machine. The thing I love most about Electrolux(aerus) if you ever need service or supplies they come to your house.

Post# 211789 , Reply# 6   12/30/2012 at 11:54 (2,748 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I love

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Kirby Sentria II the attachments never have bothered me .

I use my Aerus Lux Platnium canister and love that also along with my Aerus Guardian Upright.

I also use my Rainbow E4 Black the newest one out .

I had a Miele twist upright and I sold it . It was too bulky and the bags are tiny.

I can`t find anything to like about any Sebo the automatic height adjustment on the uprights constantly adjusts and my carpets never seem to get groomed properly.

Post# 211792 , Reply# 7   12/30/2012 at 12:21 (2,748 days old) by singingrainbow (Texas)        
About the felix

Another thing to consider is that the bag on the miele is larger than on the sebo felix, plus with the miele you would not need to buy an extra extension hose because of how long the one it comes with is. Also the sebo felix does not come with a very long hose, dusting brush, or even a wand for high up cleaning, all of those would have to be purchased separately. If you could give up some of the more "deluxe" features you could get the miele twist for 399 with the same tool setup, same motors, same cleaning ability, and same suction as the higher end models.

I am not trying to bash the sebo felix because it is a great vacuum, I just think that for you the miele would be better.


Post# 211806 , Reply# 8   12/30/2012 at 14:35 (2,748 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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All of a sudden I'm now reconsidering the Kirby ...

Post# 211808 , Reply# 9   12/30/2012 at 14:48 (2,748 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        

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I'm surprised not many people have have suggested the new Rainbow. It sounds perfect for you. It both vacuums and deep cleans carpet and hard floors (mopping & hot water exaction). I hear the water filtration is amazing at controlling large amounts of dust, and you will never have to worry about full bags.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bagintheback's LINK

Post# 211830 , Reply# 10   12/30/2012 at 16:00 (2,748 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture

If you live in an apartment, my advice is to keep your vacuum set-up simple. Though there many loyal fans of Kirby vacs and Rainbow vacs, I have never been one of them. The Kirby is too noisy, the Rainbow requires too much maintenance to empty and keep clean and both are too bulky for the confined spaces of an apartment.

Looking at Consumer Reports test results, if money is no option, to me the easiest solution is two simple but high performing vacs: Get the Hoover Lightweight Platinum bagged upright for all your carpets, and get a suction-only Miele canister with a wide array of tools for everything else. Most of the noise people living under you hear is caused by the beater brush roll of an upright. Though the Hoover is quieter than a Kirby, it performs just as well and is easier to use. If it's early in the morning, or late at night you can always use the Miele canister (even for surface cleaning of your rugs) as it is extremely quiet. You can deep clean your carpets at other times with the Hoover.

Don't be too concerned with the size of the Miele bags. Since you won't be using it to deep clean your rugs, the bag won't get full very fast and you can pop in a new bag every 3 months. The Hoover Platinum Bagged Upright has a very large easy to change bag.

Hope this helps!!!

Eurekaprince Brian

Post# 211831 , Reply# 11   12/30/2012 at 16:08 (2,748 days old) by sbakerde (Millsboro, DE )        
go for the Miele

In my experience I feel the Miele vacuums are far better deep cleaners than the Sebo models, especially for the Uprights. Miele seems to have a might higher airflow than the sebo. IF your wanting ease of use for attachments a canister model might be best. The mid line Miele canisters are quite small and light weight. Though even the Miele uprights have a rather long reach with the attachment hose. Kirby is a great machine but attachment use can be an ordeal, Personally I prefer the on board design of the Miele.

As far as dust capacity goes your fantom container full would fit into a Miele bag at least 5 times maybe even 10. I will add reguarless of which vacuum your purchase stock up on bags right away, you may go through them fast for the first couple of months. When my fantom fury died I replaced it with a Kirby and got 10 pounds of sand out of the carpet the first vacuuming. Apparently the Fantom did nothing for the deeply embedded dirt.

Post# 211836 , Reply# 12   12/30/2012 at 17:11 (2,748 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Sanitaire SC679 upright.


Post# 211838 , Reply# 13   12/30/2012 at 17:12 (2,748 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Sanitaire SC3683 straight suction canister.


Post# 211839 , Reply# 14   12/30/2012 at 17:15 (2,748 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the attachment set for the Sanitaire SC679 upright.


Post# 211840 , Reply# 15   12/30/2012 at 17:17 (2,748 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Sanitaire S635 upright.


Post# 211841 , Reply# 16   12/30/2012 at 17:20 (2,748 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Eureka Boss 1934 upright.


Post# 211842 , Reply# 17   12/30/2012 at 17:23 (2,748 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Sanitaire DuraLite SC9050 upright.


Post# 211884 , Reply# 18   12/31/2012 at 01:08 (2,748 days old) by Anhedonius ()        

If the Felix appeals to you, consider getting it at Costco, which carries the Felix online. The price is the same as the MAP everywhere else, but the Costco package includes the turbo brush, extension hose, and extension wand usually sold separately. Also, if you hate it, it's Costco - no questions asked returns, no matter when. It's $25 additional (I think) if you don't have a membership, or $55 to get a membership that you can use at the warehouse (there's one on 125th St.)


Post# 211894 , Reply# 19   12/31/2012 at 02:29 (2,748 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

The Hoover Lightweight Platinum bagged is a nice machine and is compact, nimble, and agile for apartment use... it also has a low speed for quieter use though the difference in noise leve isn't significant. I'd likely go for a more quality machine if money were no object. I use my Miele canister when I need something quiet at night, but in general, I find canisters to be hard to maneuver in the tight spaces of an apartment. The Mieles are a little better than others because all casters swivel 360 degrees... you can kick the body of the machine in any direction to back out of a tight corner and it will readily submit. Mieles are quiet to begin with, but they have adjustable motor speeds which really helps make them even more quiet so they are great for late night use (I live in an apartment and like to clean in the wee hours too!)

But, I have 57 vacuums :o) Rainbows make mud and the Kirbys, while great on carpet are bulky and I've never been impressed with the hose suction of my G5... never put a hose on the Sentria, but I imagine it would be similar.

I'd go with the others who say Sebo will not deep clean as well as the Miele upright... I have the Windsor equivalent of the Sebo Automatic X series (without the automatic height adjust) (looks like my avatar pic, just not as pretty, more utilitarian) and while it is a well designed machine, it was very obviously not designed for thick carpet... it was designed for flat thin commercial carpet and does well on that. I know the Sebo Felix is a different animal though, and I've tried one and just didn't like it for some unidentifiable reason... maybe because it seemed awkward and didn't seem to groom well.

Welcome to the forum... even though you don't seem to be a collector yet, you seem very smart and appear to have really given this some thought... I hope you find the machine that is just perfect for you.

Post# 211962 , Reply# 20   12/31/2012 at 13:23 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

If you really want a Kirby, I recommend a rebuilt Heritage II or a rebuilt Legend or a rebuilt Legend II. These models outclean the Generation 3/G4/G5/Gsix/Ultimate G/Diamond Edition/Sentria/Sentria II models.

Post# 211964 , Reply# 21   12/31/2012 at 13:30 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

If you really want a Rainbow, I recommend a rebuilt SE or a rebuilt SE PE or a rebuilt E-Series 1-speed. These models do not have the electronic controls which go bad.

Post# 211965 , Reply# 22   12/31/2012 at 13:57 (2,747 days old) by hype822 ()        

i guess that I was wrong for buying a sebo 5 years ago, because apparently they are not user friendly, dont groom well, cant be used on thick carpet because the nozzle cuts out, dont clean thick carpets well either. well, maybe if i bought and used nothing but the almighty kirby, i would not be stupid huh? let the sebo bashing continue

Post# 211973 , Reply# 23   12/31/2012 at 15:42 (2,747 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

Steve, don't call yourself stupid because other people have a different opinion than you. I don't know you yet, so I don't know what kind of self esteem you have, but nobody should feel they are stupid because other people stated some things they don't like about a certain vacuum cleaner.

Post# 211977 , Reply# 24   12/31/2012 at 16:37 (2,747 days old) by nycwriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Thank you all for your responses!

A couple of points:

-- Living in an apartment (not a small apartment, but not a 4,000 square foot house either), I really don't have the *closet* space for more than one vacuum cleaner.

-- I don't mind bulk and weight (I'm a weightlifter myself).

-- I'm willing to compromise on the noise issue (I'm sure just about anything would be an improvement over the jet engine that apparently powers my Fantom).

-- I've learned (as Vacuumfreeke pointed out above) that "professional" or "commercial" units -- despite usually being built stronger -- often perform worse in the home than in commercial settings because most commercial carpeting has "barely there" pile, as opposed to the wide ranges of plush we have in our homes.

I'm truly impressed with so many of you and your collections. LOVE looking at your photos! The only thing keeping me from going overboard myself is my obvious lack of space. Unless you own a townhouse in Manhattan, you don't have virtually unlimited garage/attic/basement space for curating such collections.

Post# 211987 , Reply# 25   12/31/2012 at 17:35 (2,747 days old) by THEMIELEMAN ()        

If you thought your Fantom was a masterpiece, you'll probably like the Dyson too. I suggest you go to your local vacumm cleaner dealer and compare the different brands. You will find most vacuums discussed in this forum in his store. Miele and Sebo are the high dollar vac store brands, made in Germany. Miele, a 100 + year old company, is a popular appliance choice and you'll find their vacuums are topping the charts in most countries. Kirby and Rainbow are sold door to door and command high prices and finding service from the seller may be difficult. I suggest you buy your vacuum cleaner from a local dealer that can provide support. Buying a reputable brand will insure you'll have parts for repairs in the future. Where did that Fantom salesman go? Or, should I say "Phantom salesman".


Post# 211988 , Reply# 26   12/31/2012 at 18:10 (2,747 days old) by nycwriter (New York City)        

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Themieleman ...

I'm not a fan of the Dyson -- just looks and feels very cheaply made (and I've heard and seen many comments to that effect).

In terms of service, I have my own sweeper repair man (yes, believe it or not, they still exist in NYC -- mine even offers free pick-up and delivery!). It's important, though, for the vacs themselves to be well-built and not requiring esoteric and hard-to-obtain parts.

As for my Fantom "salesman", "he" is still around. His name is "Bed, Bath, and Beyond."

Post# 211989 , Reply# 27   12/31/2012 at 18:20 (2,747 days old) by TheHooverMan (United States )        

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Post# 211992 , Reply# 28   12/31/2012 at 18:42 (2,747 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Manhattan Apartment Vacuum


There are several very good vacuums that will work well in your Manhattan digs. For the variety of flooring you describe do yourself a favor and forget the Miele and Kirby uprights. Of the two, my choice would be Kirby for its long-life durability but the user experience with both machines could be better while the overall cleaning performance of both units is among the best in the business. IF you choose an upright the SEBO X5/Windsor Sensor XP12 is going to give you good performance, excellent usability and durability and I had one for ten years. You will absolutely LOVE the 1.5 pound handle weight on your wrist. Despite some opinions on carpet cleaning performance, it does a good job and is used at the White House (with LUX) and almost every hospital in America (along with the Windsor Versamatic). It is also used in the Kremlin and Buckingham Palace. More than acceptable for your Manhattan apartment and it won't break the bank.

About deep carpet cleaning. All of the good brands (Sebo, Filter Queen,Rainbow,Lux, Miele, Simplicity/Riccar and Kirby) do a good job of cleaning carpet. Go find the vacuum you want to use based on features and buy it. Deep cleaning becomes a serious issue for most because statistically most people in the US vacuum two or three times a month. Not nearly enough! Traffic areas get vacuumed every day or two with any of the above 8 brands I mentioned and your carpet will last a very long time without showing wear marks. Remember carpet fibers are opaque and the dirt wears the ends off and they start to look dirty even though they are not. Proper care is what makes the difference here. If you don't love the vacuum you buy you won't use it. There is a reason most pawn shops have late model Kirby's on the shelf to be had for basically dog food money.

This brings us to the power nozzle canister which is your best option.

Miele Capricorn, Earth or Gemini with the 236 power nozzle. Small, light and powerful. Just a nice vacuum. Select the Earth since the hose is 18" longer and makes it easier to get around with. Skip the 217 nozzle.

Sebo D4 with Et-1 power nozzle is also great. Better nozzle than Miele since it's less clunky and more durable, 40' cord reel and swivel hose, great filtration and simple to operate. Again just a nice vacuum. You will be very pleased.

Simplicity full-size Moxie and Gusto and their Riccar sister models also have swivel hoses, good performing nozzles, quality attachments and 28' cord winders. Excellent brush roller and carpet grooming and made in the USA.

Filter Queen is an older design without a cord reel that will give better filtration than all the others (three times finer than HEPA) and probably outlive you. USA-made. Most durable canister vacuum money can buy. Period.

Finally the Lux Guardian Platinum is quieter than the Miele, Stainless Steel Body and 14 lbs, 15 year warranty and more power, not quite as aggressive on the power nozzle but still very good performance and a very easy vacuum to use. The Miele holds its power a little longer, the LUX has SIGNIFICANTLY better quality dusting brush and combination rug and floor nozzle and Sidekick III mini power nozzle. The Lux has HEPA filters before and after the motor and fan unit so it is unique in that regard. I now use this machine in my home. Made in EU and USA

The new Rainbow is nice and is the only machine that maintains constant suction power. It too is very high quality and USA-made.

All of the above mentioned vacuums will leave you with very clean carpets at the end of the day. Lots of people on this site don't care for the performance of the Lux and SEBO heads. Not only did I sell LUX for more than a dozen years, I have had and used all of the power nozzle canisters I just outlined in my home for several years. All of the nozzles, Miele 236, Sebo ET-C, ET-1, ET-H, Simplicity Moxie and Lux Omniflo picked up about the same amount of dirt used daily on the same carpet over a period of several years.

There are lots of Youtube videos on Miele and Sebo/Windsor and several on the Lux Intelligence/Aerus Lux Guardian Platinum and the Filter Queen also.

I hope this helps.


Post# 211993 , Reply# 29   12/31/2012 at 19:12 (2,747 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
How about a Tacony made Simplicity/ Riccar??

durango159's profile picture
I love canister vacuums. I've been professionally house cleaning for 18 years. I've had the best success with Hoover canister vacuums. However now Hoover's selection is quite limited. I look for machines that clean EXCELLENT, while being convenient to use and reasonably durable. Your unlimited price range puts you in a better than me.

I'm not a Kirby guy. Too loud, too heavy, don't groom carpets enough, attachment setup is awful.

Also not a Sebo guy. Don't groom enough, non user friendly, can't handle plush rugs.
I've had awful experiences with Sebo D4 canister, Oreck uprights, most Dyson uprights I've used.

Aerus Electrolux vacuums will last forever and are quiet. However, I've found that the long slender suction units tend to roll over on their sides and slide along the floor rather than stay on wheels. Carry handles in the middle make it awkward to lug around. Some of their power nozzles aren't very powerful.

The Riccar/ Simplicitys are a great line. Very quiet, very powerful, sealed systems, HEPA S Class filtration, wide assortment of available on board tools, Made In The U.S.A, metal base plates, metal brush rolls, suction to pull paint off your wall. I'm very happy with our Riccar 1700 canister pictured below!! I highly recommend testing out a Riccar in a store. The new Tandem Air uprights are amazing too!!

I have little Miele experience but I hear they're very good. If you go canister I would be sure to get the SEB228 or SEB236 power nozzle. They have a wide variety of suction units, you need to see which one appeals to your needs as far as attachment availability, size and bag capacity. For a Miele upright I would look at the S7 series.

The Royal Lexon SR30020 is a really neat machine!! Very powerful suction and agitation!! Quiet running, and the powerhead glides very smoothly over the carpet with an extremely comfortable handle. Durability wise they look ok but definitely not built the way Royals were years ago. The Riccar or Miele would be better durability wise.

I have noticed many canister vacuums WAYYYY outperform many upright vacuums. I've also seen many that are about even with each other. A lot of machines on the market have great suction. Agitation is where many companies have slacked off. I'm sure there are a plethora of vacuum dealers in the Manhattan area. Visit a few, try before you buy, look at the agitator area: check bristle stiffness, how far it extends below base plate, are bristles edge to edge, what type of belt, etc. See what return window is for machines or if you can try it at home on your rugs and see how you like it for a day!!

Best of luck in your search!!

*****NO ONE ON THIS SITE IS STUPID!! We all have years of experience using different vacuums whether its in our own homes, relatives homes, professional cleaning service like myself or otherwise. Everyone's home is different whether its wall to wall plush carpeting, lightweight area rugs, hardwood floors and/or several options. There is a high tendency for us to prefer vacuums that we used growing up. For Example: If your parents household had a Kirby, chances are you are biased to Kirbys to this day and love them with all of your heart. This is just an example and there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT PHILOSOPHY!!! We should not let our preference of a brand hurt our self esteem and feelings towards one another, just because another member has shared a different experience!! Let's learn from each other and be able to discuss and share our experiences openly on this forum!!! There is a reason why we have Chocolate, Vanilla and Strawberry ice cream flavors along with Minimans and Station Wagons, canister vacuums, and upright vacuums and several different manufacturers to choose from for just about any product a person desires to purchase!! There is an option out there for everyone!!!


Post# 211999 , Reply# 30   12/31/2012 at 19:47 (2,747 days old) by hype822 ()        

i apologize for what i posted earlier. one tends to not be happy when one finds out recently that his fathers cancer has returned at stage 4. so sorry about that earlier post again. and anyway if you like uprights take a look at a simplicity/riccar tandem air upright.

Post# 212001 , Reply# 31   12/31/2012 at 20:43 (2,747 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Agree With Hype


You are right about the Simplicity/Riccar Tandem Air units like the Radiance and Brilliance. Excellent all the way around and worth a look.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad. A friend of mine was a cancer surgeon at one of my clients- Dana Farber in Boston. They do some amazing stuff and their technology is cutting edge. One of the best hospitals in the world for cancer and a visit is time well spent.


Post# 212003 , Reply# 32   12/31/2012 at 21:36 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Hoover Elite C1414 upright.


Post# 212004 , Reply# 33   12/31/2012 at 21:36 (2,747 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Hey there Boston Brian,

Quick question: why does the Miele Earth come with a longer hose? Don't all S5 series Miele canisters come with a 6 foot hose? Is the SES 119 hose different from all the other hoses? If yes, can you buy it as an option for all the other models in the S5 series? People have complained about the short hoses and cords on Miele canisters, so I wonder why this longer hose is not standard for all their deluxe full-size canisters...

Write back when you get yhe chance! :-)

Eurekaprince Brian in Toronto

Post# 212005 , Reply# 34   12/31/2012 at 21:38 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Hoover Elite C1404 upright.


Post# 212006 , Reply# 35   12/31/2012 at 21:40 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Hoover Guardsman C1631 upright.


Post# 212007 , Reply# 36   12/31/2012 at 21:43 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Hoover Guardsman C1431 upright.


Post# 212010 , Reply# 37   12/31/2012 at 21:46 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Hoover PortaPower CH30000 straight suction canister.


Post# 212011 , Reply# 38   12/31/2012 at 21:50 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Hoover Signature Lightweight C1320 upright.


Post# 212013 , Reply# 39   12/31/2012 at 21:54 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

To make the Kirby's groom and deep clean, You need a 4 row brushroll. Adjust the beater bar to position 3 on the G-Series. Adjust the beater bar screws all the way down on the Pre G-Series. Adjust the carpet height to where you hear the brush contact the carpet and adjust one more click down. The Kirby's is now at the correct carpet height for excellent deep cleaning and excellent grooming.

Post# 212017 , Reply# 40   12/31/2012 at 22:21 (2,747 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

As a general rule of thumb, Bagged Uprights and Bagged Canisters clean much better than Bagless Uprights and Bagless Canisters.

Post# 212025 , Reply# 41   1/1/2013 at 00:27 (2,747 days old) by ryan1994jeep (Georgia)        

ryan1994jeep's profile picture
I understand your doubts with Dyson, but it seems since you were so happily satisfied with your Fantom that the Dyson would well suit your needs with the wand/hose handle and bagless convience. Might I also recommend the Kenmore Intuition Crossover canister.

Post# 212026 , Reply# 42   1/1/2013 at 00:38 (2,747 days old) by TheBillbot ()        

A Good Used Eureka FG Upright that's in Good Condition. Also a new 1934B Eureka is great as well. Huge Bag Capacity and Great Suction, grooms the carpet very nicely and leaves nice marks on the carpet.

The Attachment Set for the Upright has decent suction as well but nowhere near as good as the Fantom. I would get Filteraire Bags for it as they are cleaner than normal FG bags.

A Hoover Decade 80 or Convertible isn't a bad choice either.

Post# 212046 , Reply# 43   1/1/2013 at 08:34 (2,746 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I actually think Ryan has hit on the correct solution: The Blue Kenmore Intuition power nozzle canister. It is very good at everything and comes with a nice long 8 foot hose and a nice long cord - longer than the cords and hoses provided on Miele canisters. The electrically powered mini power nozzle stores on board, and the hose and wands are standard diameters so you can attach any tool you want to buy from your local vac dealer. This has been Consumer Reports top rated canister vac for two years. It's also got a much larger cloth Hepa bag than the Mieles. Just don't abuse the machine and you'll be fine - follow the instructions and shut off the vac before disconnecting the electrified hose and wands to avoid burning the contacts.

The neat feature of this vac is that the floor brush stores right in the power nozzle. You just shut off the vac from the handle control, press a pedal to release the brush, switch the vac back on you are ready to go...

According to consumer surveys done by Consumer Reports, Kenmore canisters have a lower repair rate than Miele, Hoover, Eureka and Swedish Electrolux. The higher end Kenmores such as the Intuition are made by Panasonic.

Here is a summary of the results of tests done by Consumer Reports on this vac:
CARPET CLEANING: The Kenmore Intuition 28014 does a very good job of removing the embedded mixture of sand and powder from our soiled test carpets. This is a measure of how well a vacuum removes the dirt hidden deep in the carpet and not visible to the user's eye.

BARE FLOOR: The Kenmore does an excellent job of removing sand from our vinyl floor, leaving very little behind and not scattering sand across the floor.

PET HAIR: This model does an excellent job at picking up pet hair from carpets using its power head. The visual inspection of the test carpet following the pet hair test reveals no traces of pet hair left behind and very little pet hair caught in the brush roll.

USABILITY: This Kenmore is packed with many creature comforts, such as a nice telescopic wand, and nicely placed electronic controls on the handle for suction, and brush rotation. A dirt sensor is also conveniently placed on the handle. A unique feature is a quick release floor brush that is integrated into the main power head.

Post# 212050 , Reply# 44   1/1/2013 at 10:01 (2,746 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Miele hose/EurekaPrince


I am not sure what is up with Miele and their hose lengths. I took my new Lux Guardian Platinum down to an old Lux buddy who sells Miele to show him the pre-production machine and do a side by side with some of his machines. The Earth hose is slightly longer by about a foot and a half over the Capricorn. The hose on the Silver Moon with 236 nozzle I had was short also. However, this additional length, due to the stiffness of the hose makes the Earth seem like a different machine over the Capricorn. Miele took the swivel off those machines and I prefer the Silver Moon design for its mobility. Those shorter hoses remind me of the old gimp, woven Lux Silverado Lawrence MFG. hose with the front of the machine hitting your ankles all the time. Perhaps it is related to the additional electronic innards of the Capricorn hose that they shorten the length for economic reasons.

The Simplicity/Riccar Full-size canisters still use the 7 foot hose like the previous S36/38 and 1700/1800 machines did. The same goes for the Sebo D4. Lots of hose( 7ft) there too. I don't care for the Cen-Tec power nozzle or any of the Sears Canisters in general even with 8 feet of hose or on a buy one get one free. Since they are closing a store here they were sold for peanuts. I hate that integrated floor bush as well. That's just me. Cleaning performance is good, durability no so.

As far as hoses go , the super light weight Tristar DXL electric hose is what I would like to see on the Miele and the Lux Guardian Platinum. Super flexible and super light. the Flexible Technologies hose on the Lux is really nice but requires more care in that the urethane will tear if you leave the power nozzle and wands attached for years during storage and the clear urethane turns yellow if stored on the porch in direct sunlight. Same is true with Kenmore, rainbow and Filter Queen urethane hoses.


Post# 212054 , Reply# 45   1/1/2013 at 10:19 (2,746 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Not so sure I'm keen on canisters. They take up twice the footprint of an upright in the closet and seem overly-fussy and clumsy while sweeping in rooms full of furniture.

I'd have to see a canister that clearly performs head and shoulders above the best upright before I'd consider one.

Post# 212062 , Reply# 46   1/1/2013 at 11:51 (2,746 days old) by Eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Hey Matt,

Don't eliminate power nozzle canisters from your search. Most Mieles and Kenmores have a slot on the main body from which you hang the power nozzle front edge down to minimize your storage footprint. These take up no more space than an upright.

If you had only wall to wall carpeting, I would not look at canisters (you have to clean forward into the room, which leaves you walking on your just cleaned carpets - with uprights you can clean easily while "backing out" of the room starting at the far corner).

But since you have bare floors with area rugs, a canister is a more flexible and easy to use solution. The large head on an upright will not easily get under and around your furniture and you'll end up using the onboard hose a lot anyhow.

If money is no option and you prefer uprights, go and get the white Miele Cat and Dog upright. Consumer Reports gave it high marks in all test categories (carpets, bare floors, suction thru the hose for tool use, noise reduction, emissions control) BTW, it looks like all the Miele uprights come with a generous 40 foot power cord.

If you want to really make your life easier, add the wonderful cordless Swiffer Vac to your arsenal! This $40 stick vac will clean and dust all your bare floors with ease in between vacuuming...and it hangs on a hook on the wall. My 85year old Mom swears by it! :-)

Post# 212063 , Reply# 47   1/1/2013 at 12:01 (2,746 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

NYCWriter, I've heard stories about that Kenmore Intuition canister being plagued with electical problems... I think Durango mentioned that, but I've heard it elsewhere before too (maybe in reviews?)...

I also think that you would not be happy with a Dyson because part of the problem you have with the Fantom is that it is a mess to empty since it is bagless... you clearly stated that in your initial post! A Dyson wouldn't solve that problem. Many collectors and repairmen are evangalistic about telling people that bagged is better than bagless...

Canisters can be stored compactly as most Kenmore/Panasonic, and Miele have a parking system similar to this and if they have a telescoping handle, that really helps. I couldn't find a picture of a Kenmore or Panasonic stored like this, and it's not even in the manual... I cannot believe they woudln't advertise that! The Kenmores, however, only park with the canister sitting vertically on its end... they don't have the parking system in the back like the Miele pictured below does (so a Kenmore would store like the Miele in the picture on the right, but not like the picture on the left)...

That said, they can definitely be more fussy and clumsy than an upright!

Post# 212064 , Reply# 48   1/1/2013 at 13:05 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Oreck Forever Series Gold Power Team.


Post# 212065 , Reply# 49   1/1/2013 at 13:08 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Oreck Graphite Power Team.


Post# 212066 , Reply# 50   1/1/2013 at 13:10 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Dyson DC41 Animal upright.


Post# 212067 , Reply# 51   1/1/2013 at 13:13 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Dyson DC33 Multi Floor upright.


Post# 212068 , Reply# 52   1/1/2013 at 13:19 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Shark Rotator Lift Away upright.


Post# 212069 , Reply# 53   1/1/2013 at 13:21 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here is the Shark Rotator XL Reach upright.


Post# 212070 , Reply# 54   1/1/2013 at 13:26 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Last but not least, Please check Consumer Reports. CR has detailed ratings on each vacuum cleaner. Here is the link for Consumer Reports.


Post# 212080 , Reply# 55   1/1/2013 at 13:46 (2,746 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Ugh. I have to subscribe to Consumer Reports to see the ratings.

Post# 212082 , Reply# 56   1/1/2013 at 13:52 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

I am currently a subscriber. I have been a subscriber since 1990.

Post# 212091 , Reply# 57   1/1/2013 at 15:11 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

By the way, Euro Pro/Shark bought Iona/Fantom in 2001.

Post# 212101 , Reply# 58   1/1/2013 at 15:34 (2,746 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Thanks KirbyUltimateG.

I'm sure the Shark is an improved version of my Fantom, but I've already pretty much ruled out bagless, as I'm tired of all the dust collecting on the surface of my unit (and the mess in emptying it in my kitchen).

Post# 212104 , Reply# 59   1/1/2013 at 15:44 (2,746 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Yes I did NYCWriter

durango159's profile picture
My most recent client has had 3 of those blue Kenmore Intuition canisters. I only use it at that house because the hose is standard size and its easier to use than the terrible Dyson DC41 and awful Sebo Airbelt D4 that she says. CAN'T STAND THE SEBO I'd have so much pleasure using it for target practice or putting it in the dumpster. But then I wouldn't able to use as a blockade, the next time I wash steps. Hmmmm, decisions, decisions, LOL!!! However I can only use 2 of her Kenmore Intuition vacuums on the hardfloors and upholstery. The connection to reconnect back into power nozzle has broken on 2 of her units. That entire power nozzle package with combo bare floor brush in MY OPINION IS HORRENDOUS!! Power nozzle is awkward to manuever and doesn't compare in cleaning to one of the other CenTec power nozzles. The bare floor brush is awful. Two diagonal measly strips of bristles is a joke and don't clean good.

I have no problem storing my canister. Powerheads can store on their ends standing up and most canisters have a park/ storage clip to slide on. Disconnect hose from wands while storing and I find my canisters are just as easy if not more so than uprights. The power nozzle wand is very thin and leaning up against a wall, a power nozzle vacuum wand won't be in your way at all. An upright with bulky bag compartment and taller floor nozzle is much more difficult.

I've put my Hoover PowerMax canister vacuums up against several other uprights and personally in my experience it outgrooms and outcleans them. In 1996, Consumer Reports rated my vacuum as cleaning "Very Good" and it rated another canister and some others as "Excellent." Through my business I have tried some of the units that CR rated better and I went out to my car to get my Hoover PowerMax canister to further deep clean all those homes and get the job done for real!! The other vacs weren't cutting the mustard!!! I change bag, clean filters, check belts and service all of my clients vacuums but still MUCH happier with performance of the Hoover. I've been hard pressed to find a vacuum that beats it!!! I think a vacuum that cleans as good would be the Simplicity Verve, Royal Lexon SR30020 and Riccar Tandem Air upright.

Post# 212106 , Reply# 60   1/1/2013 at 16:12 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Here are three more recommendations for you:
Hoover WindTunnel Anniversary Edition bagged self propelled upright.
Hoover WindTunnel Anniversary Edition bagged non-self propelled upright.
Hoover WindTunnel Anniversary Edition bagged PN canister.
All three are rated very well by Consumer Reports.

Post# 212108 , Reply# 61   1/1/2013 at 16:24 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Consumer Reports Ratings:
Hoover WindTunnel Anniversary Edition bagged self propelled upright:
Excellent in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Excellent in suction/Excellent in filtration/Fair in noise.
Hoover WindTunnel Anniversary Edition bagged non-self propelled upright:
Excellent in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Excellent in suction/Excellent in filtration/Fair in noise.
Hoover WindTunnel Anniversary Edition bagged PN canister:
Very Good in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Very Good in suction/Excellent in filtration/Good in noise.

Post# 212113 , Reply# 62   1/1/2013 at 17:24 (2,746 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Rob - the Hoover canister you mentioned is indeed rated as a good performer by Consumer Reports, but they also gave it a "fair" in the "handling" category because, as it says: "Uncommon to canisters, the power head does not swivel, and the only handle control is for the rotating brush." I have also read on Vacuumland that the wheels are not great and that it bogs down on thick carpeting.

Though the famous Self-Propelled WindTunnel is a great upright and top-rated, Consumer Reports clearly states that it is relatively noisy and heavy. Matt will also hate using this Hoover upright for above the floor cleaning - there is no suction control, the hose is too short and the upholstery nozzle can damage fabrics.

If money is no option, he is better off with a Miele upright with a nice long 40 foot cord. The white "Cat and Dog" upright is his best bet, because it actually performs better on bare floors ("Excellent") for some reason than the other Miele uprights (only "Very Good"). It seems that it achieves this because it does not have a lot of electronic controls adjusting and monitoring the motor and the filters, and it does not use the Miele Hepa filter. It looks like the Miele Hepa filter can actually reduce air flow, so if you buy a Miele upright with the cheaper filters (the Active Air Clean Filter), you get the same level of excellent filtration but increased airflow for bare floor cleaning and above the floor cleaning.

Other than that, he can get a great Miele Callisto canister too. But he's going to need an extension cord because the cord is really short (21 feet).

Post# 212122 , Reply# 63   1/1/2013 at 19:15 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

I wish the Hoover Concept One uprights and the Hoover Dimension 1000 PN canisters were still being made today. I would recommend them in a heartbeat. Those models were also rated very well by Consumer Reports.

Post# 212124 , Reply# 64   1/1/2013 at 19:28 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Consumer Reports Ratings:
Kirby Diamond Edition/Sentria/Sentria II:
Excellent in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Excellent in suction/Excellent in filtration/Fair in noise.
Oreck XL21/Platinum/Forever Series Gold:
Very Good in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Fair in suction/Excellent in filtration/Good in noise.
Oreck Graphite:
Good in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Poor in suction/Excellent in filtration/Fair in noise.

Post# 212127 , Reply# 65   1/1/2013 at 19:53 (2,746 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Show me the thread link PLEASE!!!

durango159's profile picture
EurekaPrince, can you show me the thread link where the Hoover PowerMax power nozzle canister "bogged" down on thick carpet. A PowerMax head along with most all other vacuums on the market will not do well on the new Frieze style carpets with the long yarn like 3" long strands. The only vacuum that seems to be able to handle this, yet still do a bad job on it is the Dyson DC41.

Otherwise I have used Hoover PowerMax heads on EXTREMELY dense thick plush carpeting and they do great. Some old style shag rugs, they can be hard to push, but if you reduce the suction with suction regulator, they're fine again.

I've been using them for 15 years, since September 1997!! Yes Hoover PowerMax canisters are now discontinued, wish they weren't. There is no swivel on the power nozzle connector but in some ways that makes it easier to use, because many power nozzles that do have swivels on wands and or at power nozzle neck have a high tendency to swivel NEARLY ALL THE TIME, when you don't want them to, examples would be on several Panasonic and Kenmore wand systems along with Eureka wand systems.

Some models had variable speed control and on/off for entire system: PowerMax Ultra models: S3611, S3620, Windtunnel Ultra S3655, S3661, TurboPower 7500 S3649. Some models only on/off switch for suction unit and agitator S3609. Some units only on/off on handle for agitator: PowerMax S3603, S3603-040, S3610, S3614, S3613, Windunnels: S3630, S3639, S3641, S3646, S3646-090. These are only models from 1997 to about 2005, there are several earlier models in early 1990's as well.

Post# 212128 , Reply# 66   1/1/2013 at 20:13 (2,746 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Hey Rob!

It's not the WindTunnel power nozzle that has trouble with thick carpets. It's the small wheels on the canister itself that seem to be problematic - someone on Vacuumland who owns one indeed brought this up - it seems to not be easily movable on some kinds of carpets, or in the transition up from bare floor to carpet. Maybe the wheels are too small, or maybe they are set to deep into the canister body. Not sure. :-)

EP Brian

Post# 212129 , Reply# 67   1/1/2013 at 20:15 (2,746 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
In the above post I was referring to Rob G's mention of the highly rated Hoover Anniversary WT canister with the German Dirt Devil body and the WT power nozzle....not the PowerMax canister of yore.... :-)

Post# 212130 , Reply# 68   1/1/2013 at 20:16 (2,746 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
A Word About Consumer Reports


If I were in your shoes contemplating a new vacuum purchase, the last thing I would look to or worry about is what Consumer Reports thinks. The individuals here are experts and the nice thing is each of us has experience with lots of different equipment. CR testing yields inconsistent and flawed results to those of us who have worked around many of the machines they recently tested. The main problem with CR is they are not experts in this field. I have forgotten more about vacuums than most of the engineers at Consumer Reports will ever know.

For example, the Sebo Felix ranked near the top of the upright ratings where the Sebo canisters rated at the bottom of their respective categories. The problem here is the nozzles for the canisters and the Felix are the same ET-1 and ET-2. Guess what? The performance is the same on all three vacuums, save for the fact the D4 and K3 have more power and airflow. The same with the Lux Legacy and Guardian Ultra. Here the vacuums, aside from cosmetics are EXACTLY the same. Same components, Johnson Electric brushless vacuum motor, Johnson power nozzle motor, same base and double helix brush roller and they get two different ratings. The Simplicity Moxie/S36 has significantly more water life than the top rated canister (my last one had about 115 inches vs about 100 on my last Miele Vortex or Sears) so you can see what I mean.

For years CR has had a hair across their backside for Rainbow and Filter Queen. Significantly better vacuums than most of their top pics. Several of their picks are maint. and durability nightmares and a search of the internet will further reinforce this. Their orange Electrolux Eureka Oxygen top pick a few years back is so miserable to work on most shops here charge well over $100.00 just to look at it. When all is said and done, it is cheaper to replace it with a new Miele than repair it when it breaks.

The biggest issue with their testing is recommendations of vacuums they say filter well that actually don't when measured with a laser particle counter. This becomes a serious issue for the severe asthmatic that buys a poorly sealed unit they say filters well for $500.00 that actually makes them even sicker than they already are. In lots of cases those individuals needed a Lux, Miele, Sebo or better yet a Filter Queen due to the fact it filters three times finer than HEPA and any other vacuum on the market.

One final note. I am not sure what type of carpet quality you have. If you have VERY expensive carpeting, my choice for a machine would be a little softer roller such as the Kirby, Lux, Filter Queen or Rainbow. The reason being test results done with an electron microscope on carpet fibers cleaned with a stiff roller like some of CR's Hoovers and a Lux Omniflo over a period of several years. The wear caused to the ends of the fibers by the stiff bristles is dramatic and is very evident looking at the carpeting, especially the traffic areas. Sebo offers a softer roller and the Miele 236 and 228 are good too. Again if you follow my advice above and vacuum regularly with one of the machines I suggested earlier, each will deep clean your carpets well. Generally a stiffer roller cleans better but there is an opportunity cost associated with it. There is no sense in buying carpet by the yard and throwing it away by the pound.

Also weightlifters and former truck drivers in the Teamsters don't need a 32 pound vacuum to have really clean carpeting. Twenty Two years driving heavy trucks for H.P. Hood Inc. and Alliant Foodservice in Boston taught me to work smarter not harder and Dunkin' Donuts come 12 to a box.


Post# 212132 , Reply# 69   1/1/2013 at 20:32 (2,746 days old) by ctsooner ()        
First post and brand new here

Hi. I"m a member of many other forums that I join to learn more about products before purchasing. I've become a woodworking building many nice projects and now have a full workshop. I have always cooked and now own three hand made Japanese knives and sharpening stones for them. I have been an audiophile since I was 13 and now I'm also a videophile (feel free to contact if you need info). I am 53 and came down with MS 6.5 years ago and am disabled. I am a retired Naval officer and was a headhunter for 11 years before getting sick.My wife wants the Oreck I've hated for years now, for her office. That means I get to buy a new one for the house. We have a 2500sf home with mostly wood and tile floors, but we have an area rug in the bedroom that the bed sits on and we have a three large rooms upstairs that are normal carpet. I have an Oreck floor cleaner also that is a B to work and I hate it. I've only used it twice and am going to sell it. I will need to get a smaller or easier cleaner as I have three Yorkies who all like to 'soil' the carpet when I am not looking.

I've read this thread and this is what I take out of it. I need a canister as it will be better and easier for the hard floors and with a good powerhead I can do the carpets. I also will need a power tool for the carpeted stairs. I wish I had enough money to get some of the higher end units, but I'm willing to buy reconditioned in order to get more for my money.

There is much confusion because you all are looking for individual things (it's the same thing with knives, wood and audio too).

Nothing against those of you who like CR, but I've had many problems with them in the past. For me, I get more info from experts who work on things rather than a magazine that tries things for 5 minutes each and make recommendations. I know it's more than that, but I'd rather hear what you guys would recommend I do. I will go to two local stores tomorrow to get their thoughts as well as to see what they have used too. It Royal worth it? Should I just get a Hoover? What is the price range for a very good canister? Do I need to go to 600 or so?

Help please. So much to learn :) Thanks for listening.

Post# 212136 , Reply# 70   1/1/2013 at 21:26 (2,746 days old) by StrongEnough78 (Clovis California)        

I myself love my Kirby G4. And after using my Grandma's Kenmore Progressive Canister, I wouldn't mind having one of those either. It's pretty quiet compared to my Kirby even, it cleans great and grooms wonderfully. But then my Kirby does too but the Kenmore costs much much less lol. I want to try the Shark Navigators, you should look into those as well! Low cost and I've seen many good reviews on them.

Post# 212140 , Reply# 71   1/1/2013 at 21:52 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

The Royal Model SR30020 - Lexon S20 is another good choice too. It is $700.

Post# 212142 , Reply# 72   1/1/2013 at 21:57 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

The Panasonic MCCG902 bagged PN canister is a fine choice. It is $320.

Post# 212143 , Reply# 73   1/1/2013 at 22:10 (2,746 days old) by nycwriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
FYI I have room-sized thick plush wool area rugs.

Post# 212145 , Reply# 74   1/1/2013 at 22:29 (2,746 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Should I be looking for used on the ones you all have talked about? I've seen some of the Shark's in Target and Kohl's. Are those the ones you are talking about or do they have an upper line that is better built?

My ex bought a Royal last year with the carpet cleaner as part of it etc...She paid 1100 from someone who came to her home. Are these Royals similar? Do they have different units that are better from their door to door folks or can I get the same unit for less at the local vacuum store?

320 for a Panny is in a great price range. What would I be missing out on compared to the Simplicity or Riccar (which is better)?

Post# 212147 , Reply# 75   1/1/2013 at 22:35 (2,746 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I just saw the Panny at Amazon for only 177 delivered. can you get a small powerhead for the stairs for that model?

Post# 212150 , Reply# 76   1/1/2013 at 22:50 (2,746 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I also have asked about the Royal that is reburbed for only 474 as that seems like a great value and in my price range if it's in like new condition. Thoughts?

Post# 212152 , Reply# 77   1/1/2013 at 23:10 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

I would get the Panasonic if I were you. A mini electric PN is optional for this machine.

Post# 212154 , Reply# 78   1/1/2013 at 23:27 (2,746 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

As a general rule of thumb, Bagged dirty air uprights offer the best deep carpet cleaning performance. These outclean bagged clean air uprights and bagged PN canisters.
As a general rule of thumb, Bagged clean air uprights and bagged PN canisters offer the best above floor attachment cleaning performance. These outclean bagged dirty air uprights.

Post# 212155 , Reply# 79   1/2/2013 at 00:08 (2,746 days old) by hype822 ()        

for the wool area rugs, if you are looking at a miele canister, the 217-3 powernozzle has a very soft roller brush. i dont know how soft/stiff the 228 or 236 powernozzles are, i never used one. as others said, sebo offers soft brush rolls for their uprights and canister powernozzles.

if you like uprights, like others pointed out here, a direct air vacuum is best for carpets, and clean air are good for attachments and above floor cleaning. if you want the best of both worlds, take a test drive of a riccar/simplicity tandem air. and, in my opinion, you can buy the brilliance/synchrony model with onboard tools for less than a radiance/synergy, with the same cleaning ability.

Post# 212157 , Reply# 80   1/2/2013 at 00:25 (2,746 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
There's a few great choices for you.

Attached is a link to a used on eBay Eureka World vac canister. A decent vacuum with on board tools. No mini power head included. I always prefer using a decent upholstery nozzle on steps so it gets edge to edge with out the need for a crevice tool. This canister has a decent upholstery nozzle with aggressive bristles on it for that work.

If you want a powered hand tool. The Royal Lexon SR30020 is a great machine. Most sites online have them for $500-600. But I've also seen them go on sale or eBay for about $350. It comes with an turbine air powered mini power head nozzle, which on this vacuum works quite well.

A Panasonic MCCG902 canister is also a great choice. It hits the market and can be found at less than $200. It's better than the current Sears Kenmore lineup and a PowerMate Jr. electric power head can easily be bought on eBay, your local vacuum store or else where online very easily and be a fit.

No matter what machine you get, I would leave your electric power nozzle permanently attached to its original set of wands and get a separate set of wands for the bare floor brush work. In the end it is easier for switching between the different tools and will extend the life of power nozzle electric wiring. Wands are a universal size for all the units I just mentioned. It would be a simple to go online and find wands to fit!!!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Durango159's LINK on eBay

Post# 212159 , Reply# 81   1/2/2013 at 00:30 (2,746 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Ebay listing

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Here is a Royal Lexon SR30020 on eBay for $450, free shipping, brand new. The only thing is that it states no returns by seller. If you buy through Paypal, they will help you should anything be wrong with your purchase and you'll get remimbursement.

Assuming vac comes brand new, and is fine, any problems with it would be taken care of through your nearest vacuum cleaner repair shop. Make sure they are an authorized Royal dealer for warranty work.

I would advise if possible going to your local vacuum shop to see what refurb and new canister units they have on display. Try the Hoover Windtunnel bagged Anniversary edition, Panasonic power head canister, Royal Lexon SR30020, and Riccar Pristine and see what you like.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Durango159's LINK on eBay

Post# 212160 , Reply# 82   1/2/2013 at 00:39 (2,746 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
This canister would be perfect for either of you I think. Terrific machines. Riccar and Simplicity are both U.S.A made companies owned by Tacony. Terrific units. Need to find another auction for 2 of these.

Starting bid is $1.00. See what it goes to by the end of the 7 day auction.

Continue to search eBay for Simplicity Canister, Riccar Canister, Hoover Canister, Eureka canister. If you see something you like, post it on here and we'll give quick input!!!

There's a Simplicity Verve on eBay brand new at $475.00

Here's a link to the Panasonic MCCG902 canister that many of us have mentioned. Listed at great price from an excellent dealer with free shipping.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Durango159's LINK on eBay

Post# 212179 , Reply# 83   1/2/2013 at 08:21 (2,745 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
It seems to me that it would be difficult for canister vacs (even with a power nozzle) to deep-clean plush rugs as well as uprights, based on the simple physics that there's simply not as much weight pushing down on the beater brushes. The canisters I've tried out in the past have felt so light that it feels like the brushes would just skip along the surface of the rug without really doing anything.

Am I wrong?

Post# 212182 , Reply# 84   1/2/2013 at 09:13 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Wow are you guys awesome. I've drilled it down to three or four choices and will now head to sites and ebay to see what I can get. Seems like the Riccar Verve may be the best choice if I can get it under 5 bills and the Panny could be the best 'buy' and still get a good machine. I guess I don't need the small power head for the steps too. I'd have no problem saving money if I can get away with it. The Royal also seems like a good choice.

I'm going to head out to a local store who sells many of these and see what they have for refurbished units as I may be able to get much more than I expect to get new.


Post# 212183 , Reply# 85   1/2/2013 at 09:26 (2,745 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I can`t beleive

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
NOBODY can read Matt said he ONLY wants an UPRIGHT . Why do you all keep talking about canisters ???????????

READ people PLEASE !!!

Post# 212186 , Reply# 86   1/2/2013 at 10:03 (2,745 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Thanks, kirbyloverdan.

But I *did* say I'm open to a canister that can clearly outperform an upright. It would have to SO outperform an upright to make up for the bulk and clumsiness of maneuvering it around my relatively small apartment.

Post# 212187 , Reply# 87   1/2/2013 at 10:10 (2,745 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
I should say, however, that one of my biggest New York fears is that while I'm sweeping with a canister vacuum in my small apartment, I trip over the darm thing, fall backwards, split my head open on the sharp edge of my dining room table, and die one of those tragic New York deaths, with no one knowing anything happened until someone calls the super after hearing the vacuum still running 28 hours later ...

Post# 212188 , Reply# 88   1/2/2013 at 10:24 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

That Simplicity Moxie looks like it could be a great buy if I could get it for around 499 or so, lol. Do high end units go for that type of price on Ebay? Will I be missing something if I can get this unit for under 500? I can go paypal if needed (I won't buy anyother way on ebay.

Post# 212189 , Reply# 89   1/2/2013 at 10:40 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

There's a Simplicity Verve on eBay brand new at $475.00

I check this one out, but it's from Canada and the member has 0 feedback and just joined Nov 30, 2012. I don't do much ebay, but this looks like it could be shady. Thoughts? Thanks all.

Post# 212190 , Reply# 90   1/2/2013 at 10:47 (2,745 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
We weren't all born eBay supersellers, you know. We all started somewhere. No one drops out of the womb with a 100% positive feedback on 8,000 sales.

Post# 212191 , Reply# 91   1/2/2013 at 10:49 (2,745 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
NYC Writer, I would disagree

durango159's profile picture
I strongly disagree with your statement of " simply not as much weight pushing down on the beater brushes." Uprights are heavier than canisters, but the weight on them is positioned so it pushes the the the rear of the motor base actually pulling the front of the hood further off the floor. If we were in a situation of no wheels and no springs on the bases your analogy would be more correct, but you'd still notice the front of the head lifting off the floor quite a bit.

Now when you put wheels and springs into place on various machines and you figure in length of bristle then it changes everything. All of these machines are so controlled that weight doesn't do much anymore. If the height setting is wrong or machine is just poorly designed then the head acually doesn't hug the carpet too well. As example you had thought about Sebo. Many of those machines use a computer chip to electronically adjust the height of the machine. Many of us have found this feature to be flawed as we feel it never adjusts properly and does not go down low enough. The Hoover Decade line uprights from years ago were great on a variety of carpets. But if you had a very low profile indoor/outdoor rug some of those didn't get low enough to seal well with the carpet and do a good job.

Now on a canister vacuum many of those power heads do not have a manual height adjustment and they are positioned that when on the rug, they automatically adjust. The vacuum suctions is further able to pull the lighterweight cleaning head further into the carpet pile and really give a deep clean. Some examples of nozzles that do a great job at this would be the Eureka Express, Hoover Windtunnel and Electrolux heads.

CenTec is a manufacturer that designs canister vacuum power nozzles for many different central and canister vacuums on the market to include all current Panasonic and Kenmores. While good cleaners and powerful they are not perfect. If you took one of these power heads and put it on flat table, you would see that the height adjuster systems actually has the unit skewed. It does not sit level and is higher on one side than the other. The brushes on these are also short cut, Bissell agtitators tend to also be short cut. So again these actually clean good, but for those of us that want a deeper clean, like myself I would not be using one of these machines for the thorough deep down vacuuming of my rugs!! Hence I have NOT recommended any Panasonics or Kenmores to you!!

Now if you do the above test with a Hoover Windtunnel head, it actually looks like there is a slight gap in the front which allows for airflow to get in and airflow is what moves the dirt into the suction stream towards the bag. The nozzle is completely level with the surface of the table and units agitator brushes are bent down into the surface of the table. Most Hoover agitators have slightly longer bristles helping the cleaner really dig deep down into the pile. Hoover cleaners are still some of the best on the marker for deep cleaning due to their design. Hoover's problem is that they have skimped on some quality aspects lately and shifting most production to China. I do recommend Hoover to you for their cleaning but since your budget is unlimited we've posted higher end vacs with greater durability while still cleaning well.

One reason that canisters do so well is because of their central mounted air duct. Most vacuums on the market today are called "Clean Air Design" This means that the dirt goes to the bag before going through fan. The task is accomplished by dirt being sucked out of housing by a separate hose that attaches to ONE SIDE of the nozzle. This is the problem. Upright vacuums are plagued by this factor of the airway only set to one side, so cleaning effectiveness is not even across the base, and the far end doesn't get cleaned well. In a canister the air path is in the center so the suction is even across the entire agtitator cavity base. Many canister vacuum suction motors are larger than on an upright so they're capable of more CFM's and overall power, thereby despite the suction motor being further from away, the higher power compromises and allows them to perform extremely well in deep cleaning carpet. This same principle is why a household central vacuum system that uses an electric power nozzle is one of the absolute best ways to thoroughly deep clean a carpet!!

Again I'll say that I'd put some power head canisters up against the best uprights. It doesn't matter which vacuum you use in a test, the vacuum cleaner that use last after a series of other vacs will still find some dirt, assuming it is good a unit.

Now since you have been hesitant towards a terrific canister option I have heavily recommended the Riccar/ Simplicity Tandem Air uprights for you as well in posts, and here is a youtube video of why!!!!


Post# 212192 , Reply# 92   1/2/2013 at 10:53 (2,745 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
CTSooner, I'd be ok with it.

durango159's profile picture
The seller is allowing a 7 day return window. They allow Paypal. You are protected by eBay and Paypal for all purchases!! They're a new seller. Gotta start somewhere.

Post# 212194 , Reply# 93   1/2/2013 at 10:57 (2,745 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

NYCWriter, I agree with Durango... I think airflow, agitation, and brush design have more to do with cleaning than weight. I'm clumsy, and I had an accident with my Electrolux Diamond Juibilee canister once and fell into the folding closet doors, but I didn't trip over the machine exactly... I went to turn it off and lost my balance standing on only one foot :o) If I'd been using something with a finger tip switch, it never would have happened!

Dan, at first I wondered why people kept suggesting canisters when the OP said he'd prefer an upright, but if you will go back and read what he actually wrote, you will see that he never specifically excluded canisters, he just preferred uprights... I almost made a post similar to yours (but I wasn't going to be quite as nasty), but I re-read the original posters comments first :o)

Post# 212195 , Reply# 94   1/2/2013 at 11:02 (2,745 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
I think now we're being silly!!

durango159's profile picture
I've never tripped over a canister vac in my life. I've been using them for over 18 years. I always reverse my way out of a room with them, so I'm leaving foot prints on freshly vacuumed rug. I have more trouble, manuevering an upright around something, having it get stuck from its bulkiness and tripping cause of it.

A power nozzle on a canister is such a joy to use. It's low profile design gets under beds, coffee tables and is so easy manuever. They will make cleaning every Square inch of your home easy and most importantly doable, along with thorough. If you had steps you'd appreciate them even more!!! The long, non stretch hoses make attachment use a breeze. Stretch hoses on an upright can be nightmare as when the vacuum is turned on, the machine sucks the hose in, so end up with very little cleaning range or the bulky upright unit falling on you or delicate furniture in your apartment and breaking something. Canister hose handles are more comfortable and will make thorough bare floor cleaning easier and more thorough. There's just so many options along with TERRIFIC cleaning performance on a canister vac, I can't see how it would be bad. For greater maneuverability get a Miele model their swivel wheels allow the unit to maneuver much better than the Riccar suction units. But I like the Riccars cleaning performance better.

Or there's the Royal

Post# 212197 , Reply# 95   1/2/2013 at 11:32 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I have a bid of 202 on the Simplicity Moxie. You guys buy ebay all the time so I appreciate your feedback. I doubt I'll get this one so Im' out to a few stores locally to see what they have in rehab, used etc... I'm assuming that any used Royal, Kirby or older Elextrolux would be a good buy too so I'm open to what they want to tell me. I now wish I had just put central vac into the townhouse when we built it as it was an option. I wasn't thinking.

Post# 212198 , Reply# 96   1/2/2013 at 11:37 (2,745 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Video of Royal Lexon SR30020

durango159's profile picture
Here's a nice video of the Royal Lexon SR30020 canister vacuum that I like. It shows great performance pit up of screws, pet hair, sand and rice.


Post# 212208 , Reply# 97   1/2/2013 at 13:00 (2,745 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa, OK)        


I’m sorry but I disagree with what you said about Kirby not being able to groom carpets well. This past weekend I used my G5 to vacuum before I shampooed my aunt’s Frieze carpeting. The G5 worked wonders. Bill Ivins sent it to me and he installed the newer style agitator which has stiffer bristles than the previous design.

I do agree with you on using canister vacuums for general cleaning. The low profile design makes it easy to clean under furniture and the attachments are easily accessible to the user. We all have our own preferences and learning from others is what makes our club great! I've learned so much over the past three years.

NYC Writer - Hope we made it easier for you and didn't confuse you.

This post was last edited 01/02/2013 at 13:33
Post# 212214 , Reply# 98   1/2/2013 at 14:19 (2,745 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
kloveland ...

No you haven't confused me -- you've actually all made helpful contributions. I really really love the Kirby (I used a 1950's vintage one -- of course it wasn't exactly "vintage" at the time! -- when I was a child, helping my grandfather clean our church on Saturdays (he was the custodian) -- and my Grandma had her own new(ish) Kirby from the '70s). If it just weren't such a production to switch to the attachments. I'm very spoiled with my Fantom. This is how I sweep: push the upright around ... see a dust bunny under something ... hit the button, free the wand, suck that sucker up ... and continue sweeping without missing a beat. I use the wand as I go along; 15 years of working in television has given me far too much of an attention deficit to *remember* to go back with the attachments later.

However, you've made me serously reconsider a canister. I'd never considered how wonderful it would be to get a power nozzle under virtually every piece of furniture without having to move it all out of place.

What I really need is a townhouse. *sigh*

Post# 212219 , Reply# 99   1/2/2013 at 15:07 (2,745 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
The good thing about the sebo and miele uprights is that both of them are deigned to fit under low furniture.

Post# 212222 , Reply# 100   1/2/2013 at 15:45 (2,745 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa, OK)        

It would be confusing to me if I were new to the forum. Everyone seems to have their own opinion which is a good thing. If it were me I would read consumer reports, and stay away from Rainbow( I apologize to those who love their Rainbows). Kenmore still makes a good canister although they won’t last as long as they used to. A refurbished Tristar would also be nice. Eurekaprince had the best suggestion. An upright for carpets and a small straight suction canister for bare floors. Consumer reports recommended both an upright and a canister in past issues.

Post# 212223 , Reply# 101   1/2/2013 at 15:53 (2,745 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
I really appreaciate the science behind the Rainbow. But from a practical standpoint, you're making a huge sacrifice fussing with the water ... rinsing and drying the pan (REALLY drying, otherwise it attracts roaches -- a particular problem in NYC), every time you want to vacuum. Sometimes it's nice to just pull the sweeper out for a quickie 2-minute cleanup. That's impossible with a Rainbow. And again, I don't have the closet space for multiple sweepers (even ones that hang on hooks).

Post# 212231 , Reply# 102   1/2/2013 at 17:34 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Wow, just back from shopping at two stores. Both high end and honest. First store. They showed me the Panny 973 and he's not sure how much the owner would move on it. Amazon has it for 265 I think it was and he has it for 342 and will give me bags and a stair turbo deal. He also loves the Sebo canister, but that's 899. Seemed ike a great unit, but not for me at that price. He would love to install a central vac system with 4 wall units and a kick in the kitchen. He's the one who does the install. He was in helping out today. He said for 1300 he'd be able to do the whole system and that would include the Sebo power head, turbo power head (small for stairs), a large horsehair floor brush, the sock, a full set of heads. It's the smaller DrainVac motor unit that he'd vent to the outside (I have a two story townhouse). They sell and like the Riccar, but only the sub 200 models. They have a used 1700 in the back, but won't sell it until they get a hose and powerhead in used for it as the new head goes for 200 or more he said and that wouldnt' be a good deal for me.

unless I can find a lower cost, used head/wand/hose for that unit, it probably won't be a good deal for me.

Second store:

He sells a ton of Meile. He also has a 2003 Silver Moon in GREAT shape. No marks on it. The owners traded it in for a new $1500 Miele as they are new and quieter (it was a black unit). The Silver Moon comes with a brand new wand/controller. He wrote down Silver Moon with SEB236 PN. Is that the power head that swivels? He would throw in the turbo head for the stairs, the finger head for blinds, the swivel head floor unit that is the newer Miele design he said. It doesn't really fit into the back of the unit as it has a dovetail fitting, but the one that does fit (he has a newer one he'd throw in if I wanted it) doesn't swivel. I think I'd rather have the swivel. He has the Simplicity Moxie for 599 I think it was, but he really felt the Miele was a much better value for me. He has a demo Sebo unit for 499. It was an orange unit with a soft bumper around the motor unit. I do love the head on the Sebo as it gets really close to the edges and pulling out the roller seems like a great idea. He pointed out that the Miele has a chevron brush and you cut the hair in two places to clean the brush. I assume that would work just fine. He sells Panny also and said that he didn't like the 902 as they've had some problems with them and his tech spoke up at that point and said the same thing. He too said the Miele was in such good shape and was a great buy since it has the new hose etc... He's throw in a years worth of bags and an extra hepa/charcoal filter (I think that it has both as an all in one).

I have a few choices and I hope that I've share properly. I have an offer for the Simplicity Moxie on Ebay for 220 I think it is and I doubt that will hold up for another 6 days, but you never know. For that price it would be a no brainer I would think but I love the Miele's control of suction etc... from the handle.

Thanks again to all of you. He has the Hoover anniversary model, but for a bit more he said the Silver Moon just blows it away.

Post# 212240 , Reply# 103   1/2/2013 at 18:22 (2,745 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Good Option


If he will let the Moxie go for $599 grab that. You will appreciate the 28' cord, longer hose with a great swivel and a good power nozzle. Also USA made. That unit pulls more water than the Miele vortex motor does at about 115" vs 100" or so. The Silver Moon is getting old unless he wants to give it away for about $350. Mine was new in 2004. The Sebo D4 with ET-1 should run a little more than a hundred over that Moxie cash.


Post# 212255 , Reply# 104   1/2/2013 at 19:29 (2,745 days old) by Anhedonius ()        

If you can afford a townhouse, NYCWriter, you shouldn't be doing your own vacuuming.

Post# 212262 , Reply# 105   1/2/2013 at 20:16 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

The Sebo is going for 899. I think that's what most online have it for too. So the Moxie is a better unit? Hmmmm I fully believe it, but the controls aren't on the handle and that's a nice thing to have with MS as it's tough for me to get down on the floor to change settings and stuff. I will need to play with the Moxie tomorrow I guess. I should also wait the 5 days to see if my bid gets accepted, although I'm sure the price will be going up considerably. What would a good ebay price be to get the Moxie 2 (I guess that's the one with the newer hose relief).

Post# 212265 , Reply# 106   1/2/2013 at 20:30 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I just saw the Sebo for 499 is their demo of the K3. Should this one be in the mix? It seems to have controls on the handles and I do like the power head and how the roller comes out to clean. thoughts?

Post# 212269 , Reply# 107   1/2/2013 at 20:41 (2,745 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        
What about...

I'm only suggesting this because you liked how easy your Fantom was to use the wand on (by the way, you must have gotten a good Fantom, becuase I was never impressed with the hose suction of any Fantom upright I ever tried.... they did great on carpet, but the hose was terrible. I think the earlier ones were better).

Panasonic had a feature that was really cool on a lot of their vacuums, called a quick draw wand. You can see in the pictures below that the wand is really easy to just grab and snatch a stray dust bunny or cobweb and stick back in and continue cleaning... You can also get a 30 foot extension hose for these models... some of them had metal brushrolls and sole plates too (mostly the commercial models)... I've always really liked this feature because of how easy it is to use. Some of them even allowed for the brushroll to be turned off for bare floors (though I'd still recommend getting a bare floor brush and extension hose). There are some flaws with them though, the hose snaps tight and pulls the machine down, but if you have the extension hose, you can lay the machine down flat on the floor and not worry about it. Also, the plastic nubs on the wand that keep the hose attached (a push and twist kind of thing) break off easily. The system that disengages the belt for bare floor use is also problematic as it pulls the belt off the motor pulley and can break and stretch belts (typically a problem if someone tries to do this with the machine running)...

I think these are much easier to use than the systems where the wand is integrated into the handle... you don't have to put them in the upright postion to take the wand out and don't even have to let go of the regular handle.

The Sebo Automatic X series also has a similar system (like my Avatar picture), but you'd defintely need an extension hose and to lay that machine flat too or it will fall over just like the Panasonic... and the brush doesn't groom the greatest on medium or thick carpet and the brushroll can't be turned off for bare floors... still a quality machine with a lot of useful features...

Post# 212270 , Reply# 108   1/2/2013 at 20:43 (2,745 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

Here's a video I made of my Sebo upright so you can see just how easy it is to use the hose on....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Vacuumfreeeke's LINK

Post# 212278 , Reply# 109   1/2/2013 at 22:10 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Which is a better vac, the Royal 30020 or the Moxie 2? Both are close in price from the looks of it. Seems like the Moxie may be the better machine.

Post# 212284 , Reply# 110   1/2/2013 at 22:35 (2,745 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Honestly, I would buy a TOL Riccar/Simplicity bagged PN canister. The extra money is well worth it.

Post# 212286 , Reply# 111   1/2/2013 at 22:39 (2,745 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Honestly, I would buy a TOL Riccar/Simplicity Tandem Air bagged upright. The extra money is well woth it.
By the way, The Riccar/Simplicity Tandem Air uprights combine the best of two worlds. Excellent deep carpet cleaning performance and Excellent above floor attachment cleaning performance.

Post# 212288 , Reply# 112   1/2/2013 at 22:50 (2,745 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
I think the Simplicity Moxie is your best bet. Better quality of Royal SR30020. SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER CLEANING POWER over the Sebo. The Sebo you looked at for $899 was probably a D4 with ET-1 power nozzle. I love canister vacuums and I clean houses for a living. One of my clients just got this Sebo vacuum for $899-- I ABSOLUTELY HATE the machine. It is extremely non user friendly, annoying to use, hard to maneuver and a terrible cleaner, and I'm an energetic, in-shape 30 year old male. The Simplicity Moxie or Simplicity Verve will run circles around that machine along with a Miele. The Verve on eBay is still a good deal for you at $475, a slightly shorter suction unit over Moxie which will be a little lighter weight.

I don't know anything about the Miele Silvermoon so I'll let others opionate on that. I can tell you that the SEB236 power nozzle that he'd give you with it does swivel and its a good power head with chevron brush and headlight.

I don't like the first store that you went to. I don't like how he recommended Sebo for canister or central vac. I don't like his price for the Panasonic. The teal blue colored Panasonic MCCG973 canister which is the model you posted that the guy is selling for $342, has been discontinued by Panaonic for about 18 months!! This machine is a leftover of his. As a leftover I could it see it being priced at about $220 since it's probably a display model with no box. It was $220 we would discuss it, at $342 it's a definite pass.

The link below is spec sheet and webpage for the Simplicity Moxie is their second from Top of the Line unit. It has everything at your finger tips on hose handle to include: On/off entire machine, on/off power nozzle, variable speed suction control, bag check indicator, filter check indicator. Toe operated handle release pedal, toe operated 6 position height adjustment. These machines are very quiet, with lots of power, power nozzles are virtually maintenance free, other than removing hair from brush roll which this machine does a good job of sending hair to the bag and not collecting on brush roll. The brush roll on the Simplicity is steel. The brush roll on the Sebo is plastic. Be sure to test this in store, the Moxie is a great machine but due to its high performance it is a heavy canister for carrying and wheeling around on carpet!!!


Post# 212311 , Reply# 113   1/3/2013 at 00:00 (2,745 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Thanks guys. So many choices, but getting closer. I've read a ton on the Silver Moon and the new 236 head alone is 236 new and this is a new hose with a new PN head. It seems to get great comments other than the cost of things to keep it going. He's throwing in the swivel floor head along with the finger head for blinds and the turbo head (non powered) along with a bunch of bags that are 18 each. It's not even that scratched and it felt good in the store when I played with it. I didn't play with the Moxie, but I will tomorrow I hope.

I think it's between the silver moon with 236 head and the extras for 456 vs the demo Moxie for either 499 or 599.. I can't remember which now as I wasn't looking at it as seriously as I should have. What would a fair price be for the floor model Moxie that will come with everything. he'll give me a 1 year warrantee on the Miele. I've purchase a Simplicity from him nearly 20 years ago and they have a top rating from BBB etc...

it seems like I can get a higher end vac with the Miele as it comes with everything, but you guys keep going back to liking the Moxie. I've learned more in 24 hours about vacs than most people will ever know so thanks.

Post# 212317 , Reply# 114   1/3/2013 at 00:12 (2,745 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
The Moxie is a good buy at $599. MSRP new according to their website is $1300!!! It's really a work horse of a vac!!!


Post# 212331 , Reply# 115   1/3/2013 at 08:56 (2,744 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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Anhedonius ...

I can certainly afford my own domestic help. Unfortunately, as the old saying goes, good help truly is very hard to find. In my 17 years in New York City I have yet to find a housekeeper who can measure up to my standards (and unsettlingly enough, I don't think my standards are all that high).

Alas -- even Joan Crawford had to do her own vacuuming.

Post# 212332 , Reply# 116   1/3/2013 at 09:02 (2,744 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Hey guys....lots of people are recommending Simplicity and Riccar canisters. Though I love the idea of buying American-made products, aren't the power nozzles on Tacony's canisters really noisy? I read on Vacuumland somewhere that the Miele pn canisters are much quieter than the Taconys. Does anyone own both?

Post# 212341 , Reply# 117   1/3/2013 at 10:29 (2,744 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I'd love to hear the answer. I'm going back to the store and I'll try both. the Miele has their upgraded 236 head with LED's. It will be a good test. I just came in assuming that even a 2003 Miele nearly top model with today's hose/heads would outperform and be a better value than a Moxie, but it seems like it's not. I'm learning a ton and thanks again.

Post# 212346 , Reply# 118   1/3/2013 at 12:29 (2,744 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Wow such an extravagant thread.... hey its a vacuum cleaner, they all do the same thing for the most part. The best vacuum to get is the one that's fits in your closet and you get the best deal on with extras. Upright or canister depends on type of home, levels and flooring types. More carpet= upright. More hard floors= canister. The Brands are all similar and try to copy each other. The most common quality high end sold vacuum brand is Miele. You'll see Sebo too and third maybe the Riccar/Simplicity which I think is a good machine, but not readily available and its the same machine under two different names. Aerus builds great vacuums, that's the brand I have and they come with 10 year warranties, electric turbo brushes and long 7 foot hose. I don't know of any other brand besides Aerus Lux that gives you a 10 or 20 year warranty. The top of the line Miele S8 now has a 10 year warranty also.

Go with Miele or Aerus, you will like.

Post# 212366 , Reply# 119   1/3/2013 at 14:31 (2,744 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
The Simplicity power head is powerful!!

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Tacony power nozzles on the Riccar/ Simplicity do produce more noise than the Miele SEB228 nozzle and maybe the SEB236. However, that still doesn't make them loud!! It's a much quieter nozzle compared to the CenTec CT14DX that everyone loves on their 1990's Kenmore Whispertone canisters. It's also quieter than many Hoover power nozzles and that's hARD for me to say too as I love the noise of Hoover Power Nozzles so much!!

The Riccar/ Simplicity nozzle has a metal base plate, and metal brush roll. It has 6 heights, it's a wide width, nice headlight and very sturdy. It runs on a virtually maintenance free serpentine belt, and has rubber wheels in front and back on metal axles. The height adjuster actually does a great job. It gets super low to carpet on the XLow setting, much beter than the CenTec heads and Sebo. On X High it also does well. It's significantly more powerful and aggressive than the Sebo ET-1 which in my opinion acts more like an air turbine nozzle. The Tacony head is also more powerful than many Aerus heads. I like the metal base plate and the few metal base plate guards make it easier to use on area rugs compared to the completely open agitator cavitys on Wessel Werk EBK340 and EBK360 which is what Sebo SEB236 and 228 are made by.

Pictured below is agitator view of Wessel Werk EBK360. This is the same head as found on Miele SEB228 and same agitator set up as Miele SEB236, it's all very similar design to Wessel Werk EBK340. These power nozzle are powerful, clean well and have chevron brush rolls. However, the complete lack of agitator cavity support bars means this power nozzle will constantly get stuck on corners and edges of throw and area rugs. Just something to keep in mind for what you're vacuuming.

Post# 212388 , Reply# 120   1/3/2013 at 16:08 (2,744 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        


Quote " iI can certainly afford my own domestic help. Unfortunately, as the old saying goes, good help truly is very hard to find. In my 17 years in New York City I have yet to find a housekeeper who can measure up to my standards (and unsettlingly enough, I don't think my standards are all that high).

Alas -- even Joan Crawford had to do her own vacuuming. "

So true.

Post# 212391 , Reply# 121   1/3/2013 at 16:30 (2,744 days old) by GM1982 ()        

The one thing about the Riccar/Simplicity nozzles including their uprights is there is a gap in the center of the brush roller brissles and side, that leaves uneven brush lines in the carpet...or for example if you are vacuuming an area of dirt or crumbs two or three swipes are needed to clean completely because that center part of the brush roll leaves a line of dirt. Not a big deal, but something I noticed when demo. The Miele, Sebo and Aerus machines do not do this because they have two complete uninterupted rows of brissles.

Post# 212404 , Reply# 122   1/3/2013 at 18:48 (2,744 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Just back from another vacuum store and the last one I'm going to. He dropped the Riccar/Simplicity due to many tech problems. Said it was as decent machine that broke down too much. He has the Perfect which seems like the old Elextrolux (he said the guy bought the dyes etc from them and it's a tank. The problem for me is that is seems so loud and heavy. With MS, I have to be a bit careful about weight, but only to an extent.

He wants 650 for it and that's with a box of bags, lol.

The Miele Titan is 500 even and he'll throw in the bags and an off market turbo head. That's a floor model and his last one. He has the Calipso in a box for 799 and he'd give me the turbo head and a box of bags. That seems like a decent deal. It also has the upgraded 236 head which I really like. It's just comfortable in my hands. If it was a blind test, that would probably be the one I go with.

The guy at the last store said that a Silver Moon isn't a good buy since it's 10 years old and the motor fix is 300. He says that and then says the the Miele's motors will last forever (when trying to sell me his demo or new one). What to believe?

Post# 212406 , Reply# 123   1/3/2013 at 19:11 (2,744 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

I have a Miele S2 Delphi, my mother has MS and the only canister she has ever been able to easily use without tripping over due to her balance problems is the Miele. Best part is she hates and I mean HATES canisters, yet she fell in love with the Miele.

Post# 212408 , Reply# 124   1/3/2013 at 19:23 (2,744 days old) by hype822 ()        

i have a miele titan, and i have 2 issues with it. the first is the hepa filter, which does not do a good job removing odors, such as pet odors. the other issue is the 217 powernozzle. i have 2 area rugs downstairs, and i have to vacuum those rugs on lowest setting, and have to run the powernozzle one way, or it hops and skips around. also, it has trouble cleaning my one dogs short hair from the area rugs. wish i bought a 228 or 236. wish it had a longer cord though. other than that it is built well, very quiet, and cleans well.

Post# 212409 , Reply# 125   1/3/2013 at 19:23 (2,744 days old) by ctsooner ()        
THANKS for sharing

Wow, this is what I'm talking about. I LOVED the Perfect but no way I could use it. I may do Miele. Should I suck it up and go Titan or Calypso or the used Silver Moon? What's a fair price to offer for the Calypso. Can I get it for lower than 799 with a turbo head, bags and the 236 PN?

Post# 212410 , Reply# 126   1/3/2013 at 19:25 (2,744 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Oh I missed by two hours getting the Titan with a barely used 236 head. He would have given it all to me for the 599. I would have brought out my card for that on the spot I think, lol.

Post# 212411 , Reply# 127   1/3/2013 at 19:31 (2,744 days old) by director12 ()        

What about the Hoover Elites and Bissell Powerglides Zach? Those are a great choice for vacuum buyers, even for you.

Post# 212413 , Reply# 128   1/3/2013 at 19:33 (2,744 days old) by hype822 ()        

if space is an issue, the titan is a small unit. but, the good thing with miele is that all of their canisters use the same motor, filters, powernozzles, etc. the s2 series, which the titan is considered, has a unsealed system, but still filters well enough for most people. if asthma or allergies are an issue, dont buy a model from the s2 series.

Post# 212417 , Reply# 129   1/3/2013 at 20:17 (2,744 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

NYCWriter and CTSooner,
Here is the Miele S8990 bagged canister with the SEB236 PN:


Post# 212418 , Reply# 130   1/3/2013 at 20:22 (2,744 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

NYCWriter and CTSooner,
Here is the Miele S7580 bagged upright vacuum:


Post# 212419 , Reply# 131   1/3/2013 at 20:24 (2,744 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
As a former owner

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
of a Vacuum Shop Miele USED to be a good Vacuum Silver/Blue Moon`s , Aluminium ect. were the best machines they ever made PERIOD IMO .
I gave my Sister a Capricorn and I owned one also both machines had numerous problems electronic, motors,replaced hoses broke .

We both used them gently and myself being a collector owning over 400 Vacuums used mine with the utmost care and it failed . I will never own another Miele until they go back to the Quality they were known for .

Simplicity/Riccar a Tacony company which I sold Simplicity and was a dealer for them .I never had any returned for repair other than a belt or a Fan on the Freedom series.

They are very reliable and out feature any Miele with things such as longer hoses larger normal sized attachments all which are VERY important .

Aerus is another Quality brand my family has owned for generations .I have 40 years experience and own mostly all TOL vacuums produced .

Aerus, Simplicity/Riccar , Rainbow , Filter Queen , Kirby ,Royal, Vortech Force ,TriStar ,Patriot, Hyla and Oreck would be the ONLY brands I would recommend .

This post was last edited 01/03/2013 at 20:39
Post# 212425 , Reply# 132   1/3/2013 at 20:44 (2,744 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

I don't know what to recommend anymore. I recommended everything under the sun in this thread. I am at a loss of what to recommend.

Post# 212431 , Reply# 133   1/3/2013 at 21:06 (2,744 days old) by ctsooner ()        

There are a ton of recommendations and like anything else, folks have favorites and that's why they make so many models. I vacillate as learn more and more, but that's a good thing. The Miele's are comfortable. I really love the Silver Moon with the newer 236 head and he's throwing in every other head and bag/filter you can think of to close the deal at 455. He claims the hose is new so I assume the former owner traded it up for the Capricorn because the hose died on him somehow.

It's 10 years old and that's a concern for a motor. He'll give me a 1 year on the whole system, but will that motor go 10 more years at full speed? I really dont' want to spend more than I need to in order to get a great vacuum and I know I don't have to. I'm waiting out my bid on ebay for the Moxie still before I make a decision.

How much is a fair price to offer someone for a Moxie? If I go that route, I want a really good buy obviously. The one he's selling me is a demo I believe. Demo price vs new? How much for each one? What is the difference between Riccar and Simplicity?

Post# 212442 , Reply# 134   1/3/2013 at 22:12 (2,744 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

Does the Silver Moon have power controls on the handle? If it does I would suggest you go with it. I have no idea how far your MS has progressed or how severe your symptoms are, but I could see a few problems arising with an S2 or lower end S5 series. The variable power controls on the others aren't something you could easily use without bending, depending on how your symptoms are now or how bad they'll become this could become a serious problem during cleaning. Also with the S5 series with the way the power and cord rewind buttons are shaped and how glossy and slick they are they can be a problem to press.

Post# 212449 , Reply# 135   1/3/2013 at 23:32 (2,744 days old) by hype822 ()        

riccar and simplicity vacuums are made in the same factory as eachother. they are mechanically the same, and use the same bags, belts, filters, etc. of eachother. the only differences are colors of the vacuums, and headlight design.

Post# 212470 , Reply# 136   1/4/2013 at 06:43 (2,743 days old) by GM1982 ()        

I've been to several vacuum stores and 99% of them say Miele, they will last longest and have fewest problems/repairs. The Simpl/Riccar are also good lasting about 8-12 years depending how you take care of it. Miele is subject to stringent factory testing, it's no uncommon to secs 15-20 year old Miele.
Sebo will give you 10-15 and Aerus around 20 or so years if maintained. Older style Royals.

The most repair prone: kenmore, bissell, dyson, dirt devil, electrolux(eureka)
Most bagelss types

This is coming from a third gen vacuum shop owner. In business for over 70 years

Post# 212471 , Reply# 137   1/4/2013 at 06:52 (2,743 days old) by GM1982 ()        

I do not believe Tacony Simpl/Riccar puts its machines through rigorous testing before it leaves the factory as does Miele in Germany. Simpl/Riccar is assembled in US with globally sourced components in St James, MO. Hose pull tests, drop tests, cord failure tests etc I never heard of being done on them... Rather a more simpler inspection on assembly line.

Post# 212475 , Reply# 138   1/4/2013 at 08:24 (2,743 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Yes the Silver Moon has the controls on the handle and that's what draws me to it each time. I would want the Capricorn Miele if I bought a new one, but I most probably can't afford one. I don't know the lowest they'd go for one with the 236 head which I like the best. The silver moon has a newer 236 and a new hose (he claims it's a new one).

If I went for the Silver Moon, with all the tools from an off brand turbo head, an adaptor, a blower deal (I'd never use this though), a newer swivel head floor tool and a finger deal for blind, how much should I offer?

Should I worry about a 10yr old motor/housing? How much longer should it work? I only vacuum a couple of times a week. Will this unit be better than a new Moxie that also has controls on the handle?

I've been contacted by a few of you and that's awesome. I'm usually the one helping others make choices on audio, knives, OU sports info/recruiting, woodworking machines etc... as I'm into those items, so it's neat being on the other side of things.

Every single store owner who's in touch has said Miele, Miele, Miele. They always say they are built as good as anything on the market. I've never heard a really bad thing about them.

Riccar/Simplicity seems to give a good unit, but maybe not great. There have been some problems, but they seem to fix them, but since I'm buying once and hope not to have to buy for another 10 years or more, I'm only concerned about their current models. I like them a lot as they seem to offer a good balance of things.

If I was able to carry the Prestige, I'd probably buy it as it seems like a tank and the suction seems great. The problem I have at the stores is that they throw debris on the short carpets and every unit does a similar job. The Panny was the only one that didn't pick things up as good as the others upper end units.

Fantom, you get it! Yes, I've noticed the cords etc... I should be fine with them, but it's an issue. I do like the feel of the Miele too as I have carpel Tunnel in addition to the MS, so comfort is most important (knocks out the Prestige).

I ramble and I'm sorry. It seems like I need to figure out how much the Silver Moon is really worth and how much longer it should last as long as I take great care of it. If not, then I need to see how much a Capricorn would be or should I just deal with the suction control on the body instead of the handle. How often will I really change suction? If I have to have the controls on the handle, but can't afford the Miele's, then I'm looking as the Moxie and will need to see what's a fair price for his demo unit.

Post# 212489 , Reply# 139   1/4/2013 at 10:09 (2,743 days old) by GM1982 ()        

If you have carpel tunnel and MS, the Moxie is going to be a lot heavier than the Miele. I think the Moxie with its parts are about 30 lbs--its a heavy machine. the Miele should be lighter about 8-10lbs, depending on the size power nozzle.

I am from Long Island and we hardly have any Simplicity or Riccar retailers. Its also hard to find Sebo, Aerus Lux and other mentionable brands here. Most of the population here seem to like Big Box or disposable junk brands like: Hoover, Bissell, Dyson, Shark and Kenmore. Wealthier households have housekeepers. Where you are in CT, I checked it out and you have many more Riccar dealers, Miele and Aerus. You cannot go wrong with whatever you decide. If something goes wrong or needs repair, at least you have 6 or 7 dealers that service within a 20 mile radius.

Maybe you want to wait and save a little extra money and get a brand new Miele Callisto, its one of the best machines available. or get the Moxie if you can get a better deal and weight/bulk is not an issue.

Post# 212496 , Reply# 140   1/4/2013 at 10:32 (2,743 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I'm in Berlin which is the epicenter of the state. The Riccar dealers don't seem to carry the canisters onsite, but the Simplicity seems to be the exact same other than color. I just need to figure out is the Silver Moon is my best option or if I need to go new. I think the lightweight of the Miele is very appealing to me as is the quiet sound so my three dogs don't get too scared, lol. I'm still open and have a bid on Ebay that still has three days left. He says it's a Moxie 2 and has a picture of the Moxie, but it's a demo and in his write up he keeps saying it's an RC 1400. I think that's a discontinued model they had hose problems with. If so, I'm going to probably pull out of the auction as the info isn't correct and I'd only want a Moxie at that price.

How should I deal with the guys locally when I figure out which unit I want to buy? I want a great price, but realize they need to make money too.

Does anyone know how much I should pay for a new
Capricorn with 236 head
demo Simplex Moxie

Post# 212504 , Reply# 141   1/4/2013 at 11:05 (2,743 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Hey friends - let's get back to helping out Matt in Manhattan....not that all the other posts have not been interesting! :-D

Matt - one of your last posts seems to indicate the kind of vacuumer you are: you want to be able to wheel out an upright, plug it in and go clean, shut it off and put it in the closet. You don't want to have to assemble, disassemble, open and empty and re-assemble. You don't want to make the process a "Broadway Production"!

I think your very first instinct is going to suit you fine: a shiny new Miele upright. With a 39 foot cord, you probably won't even have to change electrical outlets once you start cleaning. And the on-board tools are good enough for all extra cleaning needs like furniture and nooks and crannies. You can probably even buy one of those nifty parquet Twister floor brushes that will attach to the upright hose and wand to clean floors under sofas and stuff.

Therefore....after over 100 posts (nice thread here guys!), my final recommendation is the Miele Cat and Dog S7 White Upright. Don't bother with the fancier more expensive versions of the S7 - the less electronic circuitry you have on your vac, the less chance for problems and repairs later. The white S7260 just has a rotary suction control - very simple and uncomplicated.

For what it's worth - and I know many Vacuumlanders do not trust Consumer Reports test results - when tested in controlled testing situations along with more than 30 other uprights on the market, this Miele "Cat and Dog" White Upright did very well in all categories: either "excellent" or "very good" in carpet cleaning, bare floor cleaning, cleaning with the hose, emissions and noise control, and handling. So, there is a high likelihood that it is a worthwhile investment.

This Miele S7 Upright will be a major step-up for you from your Fantom wondervac!

Here is a nice videoclip which shows how easy it is to use -

CLICK HERE TO GO TO eurekaprince's LINK

Post# 212507 , Reply# 142   1/4/2013 at 11:44 (2,743 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
NYCWriter, how we doing?

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You started this thread. Haven't heard from you in a bit, so I imagine you're long work week is ending and you'll do more research over the weekend. CTSooner has it down to a few machines. I think a feud between Tacony's Riccar and Simplicity vs. Miele is common. Both are terrific machines and I think it comes down to user comfort, options and price. Miele are said to be better built but they're quality has dropped and they get their fair share of repairs. Riccar/ Simplicity units are excellent, strong builds that will last many many years. They had a hose problem on some canisters but have changed materials and that seems to be a non-issue at this point. They recently brought manufacturing back to the U.S. and quality of finished product is better. I like the newer style telescoping wands compared to older version!! Buying brand new especially with either of this works out well because you get manufacturer warranty which on a new Moxie canister would be 5 yr. all inclusive.

What are your thoughts on something Matt? Are you liking the sound of Simplicity Synergy upright or Riccar Radiance, or Riccar Brilliance, all of which have their Tandem Air System? What the Tandem Air System does is eliminate the battle between uprights of whether a direct air system, (Also known as Dirty Air or Fan First), or Clean Air System ( Also known as Bypass) system is better because these machines use both. The Tandem air system uses 2 suction motors. This is why the vacuum can be demonstrated with the bag door removed because the machine has suction motor pushing dirt to the bag. If you put the bag door on, then you also gain the power of a motor pulling air to the bag. It's an upright so you would just have to switch hose to attachment use. The Miele S7 uprights are a similar technology to this but I believe the Tacony system is better.

On a canister you can have on/off power nozzle control at your fingertips, release suction hose from power head and grab whatever dirt in cracks and crevices that you want. I also use bare floor brush or electric power nozzle from canister to clean sofa cushions and stairs while I'm doing the main room. Can't really do that with a bulky upright.

Let us know where you're at. Remember everyone that this is a vacuum cleaner. It's an appliance just like refrigerator for cold beer and oven for baking brownies. A machine to help us with allergy removal etc. None of the machines listed above are junk and all will do a terrific job cleaning just about any environment. We on this forum know what junk is and we won't post those for recommendation!!! I've done a fair share of vacuum refurbishing and resale, I only resell machines that clean decent and avoid a few brands otherwise, which I will not state here in-order to maintain the status quo.

Wishing everyone a wonderful weekend. Those with snow and cold temperatures like me-- be careful and bundle up!! To everyone stay well and wash hands, this is cold and flu season!! It's a good time to boost Vitamin C and take some Echinacea.

Post# 212509 , Reply# 143   1/4/2013 at 12:19 (2,743 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Well thank you all very much! I have to admit, I thought I was pretty "up" on the latest vacuums (have always had a fascination with them anyway), but there are quite a few brands I've never heard of.

What I really WANT is an all-metal Royal Everlast; raw power, no frills. Basically a motor on wheels with a bag. Unfortunately, it's not what I NEED; it's as loud as a jet engine and about as complicated as you can get for using attachments.

After an honest appraisal of my home (size, furnishings, % of carpet vs hardwood -- which is about 50-50 ), I think I may have had a Come to Jesus moment regarding canister vacs. This is very difficult for me since I'm a third-generation upright guy. My mom has had nothing but uprights (and let's face it, MOM is always right); both grandmothers only used uprights. In fact, the only person in my entire family who had a canister was one of my aunts, but she was always "different", so no one said anything about her choice in vacuum.

This weekend I'm going to test out a Royal Lexon S20, as well as the Miele S8990 UniQ . While I'm at it, I'll also try the Miele upright, but truth to tell, now that I've at least brought canisters into the conversation, I've been fantasizing about having a vac that would allow me to NEVER AGAIN have to move my heavy-as-a-piano solid oak Stickley dressers ever again! Getting a power nozzle on the carpeting under those dressers, the bed, and the sofa has been such an unreachable dream that, like x-ray vision, I've always kept tucked firmly into the realm of fantasy.

Any thoughts on the Royal S20 vs the Miele UniQ? I know the Royal is half the price (practically) than this model of Miele, but I'm wondering if there's really that much of a difference in performance, or is it just the bells and whistles?

Post# 212510 , Reply# 144   1/4/2013 at 12:22 (2,743 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Miele Capricorn new should be about $800-850 upon negotiating or for floor model.
Callisto should be about $700 which would come with the smaller electro power nozzle

A Simpl Moxie Id guess would be about $650

Post# 212514 , Reply# 145   1/4/2013 at 12:49 (2,743 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Best thing about the Miele UniQ: you get a funky flashlight right on the hose handle! Which means you will always have a way of seeing what's lurking behind the sofa, under the bed and up on the tops of your framed artwork!

The new S8 series has not been laboratory tested anywhere in North America, so it's hard to say. But here is a neat little video by the British version of Consumer Reports - Which? Magazine....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO eurekaprince's LINK

Post# 212517 , Reply# 146   1/4/2013 at 12:56 (2,743 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
OK, wait ... just seeing some videos about the Riccar. Might have to take a trip into Brooklyn to try one out (seriously -- not ONE Riccar dealer in MANHATTAN???).

Post# 212518 , Reply# 147   1/4/2013 at 13:03 (2,743 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
INTERESTING price comparison ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Just saw a vintage Hoover ad for a Convertible. The ad was from 1968 (the same year my parents were married and received a wedding gift of -- a brand-new Hoover Convertible -- milk chocolate brown with yellow hood). $79.99 with accessories.

Now, I think we can all agree that the Hoover Convertible in the '60s and '70s was pretty much the Everywoman's sweeper -- not a cheapie, but not top of the line, either. It was the Chevrolet of its day; a solid workhorse, but not quite a Buick, Lincoln, or even a Cadillac.

I crunched the numbers and adjusted for inflation, today that vacuum would cost $568. That's what EVERYBODY paid, back then (in today's dollars) for a solid middle-of-the-road vacuum, without even thinking about it.

And yet today, people have become so spoiled with cheap imports that they balk at anything over $200.


Post# 212519 , Reply# 148   1/4/2013 at 13:18 (2,743 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Another way to look at it:

nycwriter's profile picture
$568 (in constant 2013 dollars) back in 1968 bought you a solid, yet middle-of-the-road Hoover Convertible.

Today it positions you (at least at the entry level) into the high-end realm.

If anything, this means vacuum cleaners have become much *cheaper* over the past 40-odd years.

Post# 212524 , Reply# 149   1/4/2013 at 14:27 (2,743 days old) by sanitaire (anchorage, alaska)        

go too a local janitor supply store and check out there vacs. I have one vac made by advance in my collection and it's very quiet...all your hear is the air sucking...then shop online and you will get a commerical duty vac for cheap. you can get bags and belts in bulk.

Post# 212531 , Reply# 150   1/4/2013 at 15:49 (2,743 days old) by THEMIELEMAN ()        

I am amazed by the number of comments regarding your original post. I hooked up with this site completely by accident while browsing for something. I posted a comment regarding your original post and cannot believe the website hits coming from vacuumland! I want to thank all the readers and acknowledge their visits. I am entertained by your personal comments and interest.

I have run my own performance comparison tests using most of the vacuums discussed in this string. No vacuum cleaner will perform the best on all floor coverings, soft and hard. Before you buy another vacuum, sorting out the applications is paramount. Some of the best uprights are impossible to push on deep plush pile carpeting or rugs. Softer textures are more difficult. For hard surfaces, canisters are probably best and provide convenient tool applications, but not completely necessary. In general, my tests have confirmed the Miele S7 upright is the most effective upright I've seen. It performs the best on most carpets, is excellent on hard floor coverings and has convenient tool application. The new Miele S8 canister cleans effectively on all surfaces. Equipped with adjustable powerbrush, SEB228 or SEB236, the Miele canister conforms to most carpets and will provide quality, performance and durability that will justify the price. The S8 Kona is a basic upscale model that meets these criteria. The S8 Homecare can be customized with a powerbrush that suits your needs. These offer quiet performing quality unrivaled by others. This "quiet" performance feature is indicative of Miele's attention to production design and performance detail. Amortizing the cost over Miele's lifetime will produce a very economical purchase. Performance tests and customer's satisfaction have made us believers. The S8 Uniq does have "bells and whistles" but also comes with a 7 year part and labor warranty. We offer a 30 day money back guarantee and free trials. We want what works for you. Try your local Miele dealer and perhaps he will provide a free home trial!


Post# 212533 , Reply# 151   1/4/2013 at 15:54 (2,743 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Hey Matt! :-)

If one of your criteria is a power nozzle that can clean carpet underneath beds and other furniture, you should test to see that the canister vac's wand can be put flat to the floor without causing the front of the nozzle to lift up and lose contact with the carpet. This, and the ability to rotate the handle sideways ninety degrees will determine how far the canister vac's nozzle can get under a bed. Some set-ups don't allow you to go very far before the front end tilts up.

It's also important to remember that carpets hiding under furniture do not get stepped on, and therefore most dirt in these places is not ground into the fibres - it's sitting on the surface. This kind of dirt and dust does not really require a power nozzle and you can easily remove it with an attachment on the end of a Miele upright's hose. Even a basic suction only carpet nozzle that can lie flat on the carpet will do.

The head of many uprights is "thin" enough to get about 10 inches under a piece of furniture which is enough to reach any ground-in dirt. Just something to think about... :-)

Post# 212540 , Reply# 152   1/4/2013 at 16:52 (2,743 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

NYCWriter and CTSooner,
If you really want a Royal All Metal upright, Look for one with the 6-7 amp motor and 9 blade fan and 4 row brushroll with stiffeners.
If you really want a Royal PN canister, Look for one that is all metal. Preferably the daschund dog shaped model.
I hope this helps.

Post# 212541 , Reply# 153   1/4/2013 at 16:55 (2,743 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

I am sorry if I came across the wrong way in this thread and in other threads. I am truly sorry.

Post# 212623 , Reply# 154   1/4/2013 at 23:37 (2,743 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Why do you think you came off the wrong way? I'm feeling that way by hijacking and I didn't mean to. I just saw a thread that was the same I came here to start. I've learned a ton by reading all of Matt's stuff too. Thanks to all.

The Royal dealer is trying to talk me out of even looking at it. I bet he doesn't have one in stock, lol.

Thanks for the prices to look for. I think I can negotiate pretty good. Hope I can, lol.

I too have a full house of Stickey or similar that I've built myself and most are not getting moved by me, lol. That's why this purchase is so important. I have two more days left on the ebay bid and I'm still winning, but I'm not going more than 225 plus the 50 shipping for the demo Moxie. That won't have warrantee will it? I just realized that. Rutro. I bet I won't get out bid either, lol. Hmmm My riccar dealer doesn't' seem to have the canisters or at least he wouldn't show them to me. The owner was gone and the kid wanted to only push me to the Sebo which didn't impress me too much other than getting into the walls adn the easily removable brush head.

Played with Lux today. Seems great, but heavy. The guy was not good and a jerk. Only talked and tried to tell me what I wanted (what he wanted me to have). I literally walked out on him when he got pompous. It was in West Hartford, CT if anyone wants to stop going there, lol.

Post# 212626 , Reply# 155   1/4/2013 at 23:41 (2,743 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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Thank you, KirbyUltimateG.

I didn't see anything wrong in any of your posts. :)

Post# 212659 , Reply# 156   1/5/2013 at 06:34 (2,742 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

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CTSooner, The seller lists himself as a vacuum shop owner. It's a floor demo, I would email and ask eBay seller about it coming with warranty and what all attachments he is throwing in. At minimum it should have a warranty through his store, but don't mention that. Inquire of manufacturer warranty since the machine is essentially brand new!!

NYCWriter Matt, Riccar and Simplicity are the same thing, different hood styles, different color. Any Simplicity dealers in your area? The Royal canister is a great unit with lots of power. You'll probably appreciate the stronger build of a Riccar/ Simplicity though, is my opinion. But definitely give it a try, you'll like it!!

Matt, I would also highly recommend for you the TOL model of Riccar or Simplicity canisters. This would be Riccar 1800, Riccar Immaculate or Simplicity S38, Simplicity Gusto. These 3 models have a three row, auger style agitator, it will out clean the 2 brush agitator of the other Simplicity and Riccar canisters!!! It will outclean most other if not all vacs on market. I just thought of this now. Should've posted this sooner. Just because a power nozzle hood cover looks the same, doesn't mean the guts are the same, and in this case the agitator wins!!!


Post# 212664 , Reply# 157   1/5/2013 at 08:33 (2,742 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Funny as I just sent an email to him about the warranty JUST before reading your post and it's a good one. If it's a manuf warranty then I guess I could bid higher than 225 or so (plus the 50 shipping), but I think I can still get the local demo with everything thrown in for around 500 or so.

Let's say I go for the local Moxie demo, how much should I offer him (he's throwing in the kitchen sink, which costs him very little)

How about a NEW Moxie if I need to go that route?

Now, what about a new Gusto? or a demo Gusto? If it's that much better, how much extra will it cost me? I may or may not be worth it in the end.

It's funny but as I read, speak with some of you etc....the common theme is that you all love Simplicity/Riccar and not JUST for cost. Most really like things about the Miele an it's a sexy unit that drives regular customers their way, but if I get one, I won't be sorry either. Since I'm not a pro by any means, I won't worry about extra's on any of the machines too much, so if it's universal, it will be handy, but it may never matter either.

Bags are very expensive for the German units and they seem to be almost cheap for the Simplicity. I will probably throw the bag away before the unit tells me to anyways. That's just how I'm wired for some reason. That extra cost does add up and maybe that's why they want to push the Miele. That and they can charge Miele back on the costly repairs since their warranty is pretty long on the higher end units. I realize you pay for each extra year regardless of who's unit you purchase.

I'm simply amazed at this thread. Matt, I hope that you get what you want and love it. I think that some get upset over the length of this thing, but it must be fascinating to anyone who's posting on it or they wouldn't be reading. :)

Post# 212672 , Reply# 158   1/5/2013 at 09:22 (2,742 days old) by IL-Kirby-Fan ()        

Sounds like you need a Kirby demo.

Post# 212674 , Reply# 159   1/5/2013 at 09:36 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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Maybe I could do a demo.

But again, I really need the ability to immediately switch to hose attachments, and then back. I can't turn it into a production.

Post# 212675 , Reply# 160   1/5/2013 at 09:40 (2,742 days old) by GM1982 ()        


The Sebo Felix is great machine, You said you didn't like it though. Its a very unique upright vacuum and durable. Otherwise, the Lux dealers tend to be very pushy, they too are very long lasting machines, I have the upright Guardian one. However, they are not as fancy as Simplicity or Miele in design and features, and they also command a high price. I think the prices on a Lux need to come down to compete better with the other brands, something that these Lux dealers and the parent company do not understand! I think that's why they get pushy, there is no justification for a $1,000 on a canister vacuum without variable suction.

I guess going with the Simplicity and Miele will be your best bet, especially in the canisters.

Post# 212676 , Reply# 161   1/5/2013 at 09:56 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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From Durango159: "Any Simplicity dealers in your area?"


Three choices: New Jersey, Long Island, or the Bronx. For a Manhattanite, that means "no".

Post# 212677 , Reply# 162   1/5/2013 at 10:08 (2,742 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Hi Peter! Welcome to Vacuumland!

The only reason I would buy the Riccar Immaculate/Simplicity Gusto over a Miele Callisto is because the money would be supporting an American company. This is not an insignificant reason in our economy these days.

But, in truth, the Miele Callisto is a better vacuum cleaner. It's 228 power nozzle cleans carpets better and is quieter than those on the Taconys. The airflow through the hose for above the floor cleaning is better on the Miele. These factors are really central to the overall performance of a vacuum.

As far as cost of bags, for the money you will save on buying the less costly Callisto, you can buy several years' worth of Miele bags.

Unfortunately, in the category of uprights, Riccar and Simplicity have one of the worst Frequency of Repair reputations. Not sure about the canisters. I have the funny feeling you are not getting a more dependable canister by choosing a Simplicity/Riccar over a Miele.

That being said, the Immaculate/Gusto have some features that help make them a little easier to use than the Miele Callisto: longer cord, bigger dusting brush, on-board bare floor brush, upholstery nozzle with adjustable wings.

So if you don't mind the poorer cleaning performance and noisier power nozzle of the Taconys, and want to help an American company, then the Immaculate/Gusto is the one to bring home. :-)

Post# 212678 , Reply# 163   1/5/2013 at 10:24 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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I'm all for supporting the U.S. economy, and buying American whenever possible.

But I'm not willing to pay a premium to sacrifice quality and performance.

Post# 212679 , Reply# 164   1/5/2013 at 10:28 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
FYI, a word on "repair" track records ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I own one of the most repair-prone vacuums (Fantom Thunder) and after 16 years of regular use, it's needed repairing only ONCE.

I've had talks with vacuum repair guys and they tell me that MOST vacuums on the market today in the $300+ range are "realiable". It's the USERS who aren't.

Treat your vacuum with care, and it will treat YOU well.

Post# 212685 , Reply# 165   1/5/2013 at 10:58 (2,742 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I'm a retired Naval officer and the Miele dealer I like is a retired Army officer. He's the one pushing Miele, lol. I want the best for the buck. The US companies need to understand that most Americans will guy US made or a product that has mostly US parts IF it's the best or tied. I have a feeling I will end up with the Moxie, sans warranty for 225 plus shipping. I've been emailing this morning with the seller. seems nice, but it's also the net. He has a ton of companies he sells, but isn't authorized, so it's on me if it breaks. I hope I lose the auction as the warranty means a lot to me, but we will see.

I need to see the prices of the Moxie, Gusto, Callisto and Capricorn. I like the Miele PN units above the 228. I need to really try the Moxie again to see what I think. They all push the units they want to move, so I may look for another vendor locally for the Simplicity. The Riccar dealer doesn't stock their canisters for some reason so I would't be able to go that route locally I don't think as I have to try before using. Sounds like I can't go wrong with any choices.

Are the Miele's really that much stronger than the Moxie? One poster above seemed to think they aren't as strong. I've spoken to someone who has recently had both units and he said that both are good.

Post# 212700 , Reply# 166   1/5/2013 at 11:45 (2,742 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Let the Sebo bashing continue

sebo_fan's profile picture
Mm not quite.

Windsor is still churning out the old SEBO X1 Automatic models and there's nothing wrong with them since they don't use the the power nozzle head that is also equipped with their canisters.

Simply put the 5.5/6 litre dust bags on the Sebo X series are pretty big on the basis that they can take upto 3 to 5 months to fill with each one. Of course, this is from my experience of cleaning up a large 5 bedroomed house and around 1 long haired cat, a short hair dog and a couple of budgies. The Felix bag is a lot smaller (at 3.5 litres) but it swivels just like the Miele S7 and has a brush roll on/off function.

The dust bags of the Miele S7 are bigger than the ones in all of Miele's different model canisters - and I've never come across anyone who requires to empty or change a Miele S7 bag ONCE A MONTH. With either larger upright, you have the bigger dust capacities, but due to the age, the SEBO X series does not have a brush roll stop function or variable suction.

I have been cleaning marble floors with my X series for more than 15 years now. Not one tile has been damaged, cut, broken off or anything with the brush roll on the SEBO.

Miele's S7 is a lot more modern though but not as well built AND unless you really want the headlight/LED function, best stick with lower models that use the same suction motor and replace touch controls with a suction dial.

With both products from these German companies, you either sacrifice having a far flusher design with swivel neck and headlight with variable suction on Miele's S7 uprights or the older SEBO or even Windsor Sensor uprights that do without. In the SEBO's defence, they are a lot easier to use than the S7 and easier to maintain/fix.

I had an S7 but I didn't like the swivel function very much and found the S7 to be far heavier to use as well as pushing compared to my old Windsor/Sebo X1 and current X uprights. The Felix is a smaller vacuum and isnt' designed for a large home determinded by its smaller bag capacity.

Post# 212716 , Reply# 167   1/5/2013 at 12:15 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
I'm sorry, but ...

nycwriter's profile picture
For ANY upright north of $300, there's really no excuse not to have a headlight. Lack of a headlight is just plain cheap.

Post# 212723 , Reply# 168   1/5/2013 at 12:37 (2,742 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

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You guys want strong: My Riccar 1700 canister could pull dry paint off a wall!! The suction on this unit is phenomenal. Generally I run it at half power, it's really rare to need the full blast of suction power that this machine produces. Even with power nozzle, many times I run it half or the next level up but rarely on full power. I've had some vacuums in the past where the suction is so strong it slows down agitation, you don't want that. Agitator needs to runs full throttle, so you need a comfortable suction level that allows power nozzle to do its job, while still making a good seal with carpet.

I have many friends in the vacuum repair business. They like Miele but they all swear by the Tacony Riccar and Simplicity lines as well. Regardless what vacuum you get, replace your bags at about 3/4 full, keep filters clean, wipe out bag housing every few bag changes and if you're using HEPA bags, the housing stays clean. Don't slam them down, Don't crash them into furniture or other stupid things and they should be fine. Many people with expensive vacuums also have housekeepers that don't care about the vacs and never change bags.

Mieles are more expensive for parts, belts, bags and overall machine. The Tacony's also use universal fit hose handles to fit attachments from Kirby, Kenmore, Panasonic, most Hoover uprights and many other lines. I don't know about the Miele hose.

Here's a thing on reliability of what many predict in giving sales speech compared to actuality. My family has owned several Hoover PowerMax/ Windtunnel canisters. Most were about $200 brand new, one may have been about $300. Online reviews from some vac experts and customers has said that bag doors crack around the hose, plastic is very cheap, fair suction, and overall machine would last 5-10 years closer to the 7 year mark. Well from personal experience all of these reviews are FULL OF GARBAGE. Here's why and all of our machines have been used and abused by several house keepers that clean for my parents every week in addition to using the units ourselves. My family keeps a record of everything all appliances and other important purchases they buy in a spreadsheet, so I know purchase dates. The first one I remember very well because it was the day before my 15th birthday. Unplanned that way for the timing of a vacuum purchase as our previous vacuum died but it happened.

Hoover PowerMax S3603-040 purch. Sept. 1997- now 15 years old still runs flawlessly. Have replaced cord due to house keepers running it over. Replaced hose--(original material was not good, Hoover upgraded around 1999 to better material.) Replaced rear power nozzle wheels. Cleaning lady dropped this machine down the steps and broke handle and rear wheel, so we replaced the base. Rest of machine is original. Motors are originally. I love this machine, my sister has it though.

Hoover TurboPower 5000 S3577 purch. May 1998-- this one was a lesser model and not as powerful. Cord reel broke around 2004 and we put this unit in attic as a back up. It has since been parted out to fix other machines. Both motors run excellent!! Power nozzle is completely intact.

Hoover PowerMax Runabout S3614 purch. December 2001-- replaced cord reel. All else is original. Machine works fine.

Hoover PowerMax Deluxe S3607 purch. Feb. 2003. as factor refurb. This machine was used semi-commercially cleaning about 3 houses a week for a few years in addition to my own home. Headlight socket replaced was replaced. Sister's XFiance killed this machine cleaning under a dishwasher that had been leaking, prior to arrival of new dishwasher. I guess you can't fix stupid, I think he's lucky to be alive. I found lots of evidence of water pickup. One of the commutator contacts on motor broke off. We took the motor from the Turbo Power above and put into this unit. Power nozzle still runs excellent and I own it.

Hoover PowerMax Deluxe S3608 Purch. May 2004. My parents now most used machine. Replaced motor carbon brushes November 2012. I did the repair myself it cost about $12. Rest of machine is original and works phenomenal.

Hoover Windtunnel Plus S3639 purch. August 2008. This machine was in their vacation house where I lived full time for 3 years. Up until recently when this vacation house was emptied and its now with my parents as they moved and condensed 3 houses together.

So my point of this is that listening to stores you hear one thing, owning is another. Of these 6 "questionable quality" machines from repair shops the oldest is over 15 years old and newest is almost 5. One was killed by a drunk thinking it was a wet/dry vacuum. All of the others have original motors that have never needed service.

I'd be willing to bet you get 20 years from a Tacony vacuum!! If anyone has any questions, please let me know!

Post# 212728 , Reply# 169   1/5/2013 at 12:55 (2,742 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

NYCWriter and CTSooner,
Contact Kirby and Rainbow and Filter Queen for in home demonstrations of the current models. They are about $2000 a piece. They are able to be financed for three years with small monthly payments.

Post# 212750 , Reply# 170   1/5/2013 at 14:19 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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KirbyUltimateG ...

Not to shoot down your suggestions (and correct me if I'm wrong), but:

-- Kirby's set-up requires just short of a Broadway production to use attachments;

-- Rainbow's painstakingly high-maintenance 12-step process with the water turns a 5-minute quick sweep into an afternoon project;

-- Filter Queen's bagless system is extremely messy to empty.

Post# 212757 , Reply# 171   1/5/2013 at 14:35 (2,742 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
NYCWriter. I couldn't agree more!! Not to mention all 3 of those would take up lots of storage space which in a Manhattan apartment wouldn't do well. The Kirby's are big, bulky and heavy. The attachments and hose all store separate from the unit and could fill an entire closet. Definitely not the machine for a user like you that wants to stop and switch to attachments in a split second. Not to mention I tried to use my Kirby with attachments on bare floor. I didn't think Kirby had a good bare floor tool so I borrowed another vacs. Well Kirby hose broke due to wand angle so you have to have a separate adapter on there to angle the hose for wands. Just too many steps to make it worth while and its obnoxiously loud with attachments. Reminded me of using a Dirt Devil upright.

The Filter Queens are very messy to empty. Depending on how OCD one gets, you may feel the urge to check and empty the unit after each cleaning like a bagless vacuum. The cones clog with dust and lose suction fast. Power nozzles are under powered and the 2 units I've tried weren't the most powerful suction either. My Hoover PowerMax outcleaned this unit at a cost that was probably 1/6 the price.

The Rainbow will need water changed and then all parts rinsed and dried so you don't get mildew growing. It's a heavy bulky system. Cleans well but again lots of attachments and very bulky. Would definitely eat up your closet space. Although one thing about a Rainbow you can have it plugged in round the clock and used as an air cleaner on low speed. It runs quiet and they have scents to put in the water to make the area smell good. But again in an apartment do you want that plugged in all of the time???

Thoughtful suggestion but units aren't practical. Get a Simplicity/ Riccar the power nozzle stores on the unit on a resting post with suction unit standing on its end. You'll love the suction. On medium power you get tons of suction and it's SOOOO QUIETTT!!!

Post# 212761 , Reply# 172   1/5/2013 at 14:53 (2,742 days old) by eurekapowerline ()        

Have you considered the Kenmore intuition Uprights the silver model is rated the best but one of the main reasons it loses points is because its it kinda heavy. It seems to have everything you are looking for. It has good tools, good filtration with hepa bags.It can be used on all surfaces and it has easy to use hose like on your fantom. i would buy it but i dont have money for one know. If you get it and you like the features of it but you dont like using bags you can return it to get the bagless model with good reviews

CLICK HERE TO GO TO eurekapowerline's LINK

Post# 212763 , Reply# 173   1/5/2013 at 15:18 (2,742 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

By the way, You are able to shampoo carpets/rugs/stairways/furniture/car interiors with the Kirby and the Rainbow.
Once you have a Kirby/Rainbow/Filter Queen, You will never go back to other brands.

Post# 212768 , Reply# 174   1/5/2013 at 15:34 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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KirbyUltimateG ...

I give you major snaps for your persistence.

I assure you -- I happen to love Kirbys. And maybe one day when I actually have a home with stairways ... and perhaps even a car with an interior to clean -- I will revisit the notion of getting one.

But until then ... in my comparatively small-ish Manhattan apartment ... none of those three are practical.

Post# 212770 , Reply# 175   1/5/2013 at 15:56 (2,742 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
One brand I haven't seen suggested here is Lindhaus. While I don't have one, I've heard great things about them. They can quickly convert to a bare floor vacuum, have great filtration, and can be used for deep cleaning.


Post# 212771 , Reply# 176   1/5/2013 at 16:00 (2,742 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
In your tiny place you could buy an Oreck or Simplicity Freedom , Riccar Supra light with the little canister and they both would fit under your bed out of the way no need to take up closet space or stand them on their ends like a broom in a corner behind a door ect.

Post# 212775 , Reply# 177   1/5/2013 at 16:21 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Kirbyloverdan ...

I never said my apartment was "tiny". Compared to other homes across the United States, however, it's certainly not a 4,000 square foot McMansion; five decent-sized rooms, two hallways and an entry foyer. Probably around 1000 square feet.

A beefed-up electric broom is really not enough.

Post# 212776 , Reply# 178   1/5/2013 at 16:25 (2,742 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
Those Riccar Supralites are said to work very well. If you search "riccar supralite" or "simplicity freedom" in the forum search bar, you will find a lot praise for the vacuum.

Post# 212777 , Reply# 179   1/5/2013 at 16:35 (2,742 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
you keep saying you have no room 1000 sqaure feet is really large for NY . Simplicity and Riccars out clean a Kirby so much for a beefed up Broom . Maybe you better learn more about vacuums before you claim to know something you dont know anything about . I am done with nasty people good luck in your never ending quest.I find it hard to belive what little most supposed collectors know about vacuums . I never needed to ask anyone how to fix something or what to buy . I guess if you really are into something like I am you just learn by trial and error .

Post# 212783 , Reply# 180   1/5/2013 at 17:03 (2,742 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

My house is a Levittown style Cape Cod style house built in 1953. It has 3 bedrooms/1 bathroom with full basement and 2 car detached garage. The garage was built in 1960. The 1st floor is 876 sq ft. The 2nd floor is 396 sq ft. The basement is 792 sq ft. My house is a total of 2064 sq ft.

Post# 212790 , Reply# 181   1/5/2013 at 17:59 (2,742 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

NYCWriter and CTSooner,
How about a Riccar SupraLite/Simplicity Freedom upright and a Riccar SupraQuik/Simplicity Sport canister? Those are rated very well by Consumer Reports and they are much better than the Orecks.
Consumer Reports Ratings:
Riccar SupraLite/Simplicity Freedom:
Excellent in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Fair in suction/Excellent in filtration/Fair in noise.
I hope this helps.

Post# 212794 , Reply# 182   1/5/2013 at 18:17 (2,742 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Kirbyloverdan: "you keep saying you have no room 1000 sqaure feet is really large for NY . Simplicity and Riccars out clean a Kirby so much for a beefed up Broom . Maybe you better learn more about vacuums before you claim to know something you dont know anything about . I am done with nasty people good luck in your never ending quest.I find it hard to belive what little most supposed collectors know about vacuums . I never needed to ask anyone how to fix something or what to buy . I guess if you really are into something like I am you just learn by trial and error ."


I've been on many controversial discussion forums, but I never expected the claws to come out on a freaking VACUUM website.

I never claimed to be an expert, which is why I reached out on this forum. And reviewing my comments, I don't recall being nasty. If I came across that way, that was not my intention and I apologize.

I'm glad you never needed to ask someone how to fix anything. More power to you. Some of us don't have the room for workshops, or frankly the time to delve into such projects. Type "A" professional New Yorkers like myself find it much more practical to just pick up the phone, call a repairman, and write a check.

Post# 212795 , Reply# 183   1/5/2013 at 18:22 (2,742 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Hey there Troy Rob!

The lightweight vacs you mention are all very good, but if you read this full thread, Matt prefers to store only one vacuum, not a pair of units.

Let's wait to see what he says after trying out some of the vacs he is interested in in his local vac stores. It looks like he has already narrowed down the choice to a few vacs: the Miele uprights and power nozzle canisters, and the Tacony and Royal power nozzle canisters.


Post# 212808 , Reply# 184   1/5/2013 at 20:45 (2,742 days old) by ctsooner ()        

My current Oreck is going to my wife's office. That's how this search started, lol. I spoke with someone today from this forum and I'm still thinking Miele, but going to play with the Earth to see what I think. I will also wait for 2 more days to see if I win my bid on Ebay for the Moxie. If my bid of 207 plus shipping holds up, I'll own a demo in good shape, but with no warranty. You guys all said not to worry about it breaking down, so I hope and pray you are right, lol. I have a strong feeling that's going to be my unit since there was only one other who bid and when his high bid tied mine he hasn't been back from what I've seen. I almost hope he snipes me at the end though as I want to go back and see the Sebo D4. I likeed it when I tried it in the store. It was actually the first one I played with and it felt substantial and was quiet. It picked up screws in the store and rice. Don't know if rice is hard to pick up, but it was in the first pass, lol. My wife would like the looks of it too and don't think that isn't important. WAF is what we audiophiles call it (wife acceptance factor). I've now spoken to two who own or have owned Miele's and the D4 and they like the D4 better and say repairs and accessories are less for the D4.

As for Kirby, I had them in a few years ago when they wouldn't take no for an answer and I liked the machine, but it was a bear to work and there is no way my wife would even attempt to use it when I am unable to get out of bed (MS). I gave them my ex's name and she bought it. She loves it, but it's always out since it won't fit in the closet and it's broken twice and I've had to go over there a handful of times to figure out that darn belt change for accessories. No thanks. My wife has bad experience with the Rainbow and NO WAY am I getting into a machine that needs washing all the time. I want a canister and would look strongly at that new cool Lux if I had the dough, but if I did, I'd go with a built in central vac I think.

It's like I tell people in audio, listen to your ears and eyes. What one likes for one reason is not your reason. One of my friends called me from Best Buy the other day and asked me what AVR he should buy so I went with asking him a ton of questions while his sales guy waited. He went ready to spend 1000 on a Denon and he walked out spending less than 350 for lowest cost Marantz. he never even heard of Marantz before that call. He called yesterday and thanked me with his wife in the back yelling out, Thanks Pete. Made me feel good, but they both said it sounded better in their system than anything else they heard in the store (the store had to do mail order to get it as their sales guy never heard of the Marantz as they only sold it in their upper end stores.

Similar price ranges here, but sometimes the lesser known companies will give more bang for the buck or fewer goodies and better performance. You often don't realize that maybe 70% of all the hospitals in the world use a product under a different name (Sebo). Miele is widely available and the 'known' name for high end vacs, but Sebo sure seems pretty awesome too. In high end hand made kitchen knives, I have Suisin and a few other names that are hand made in Seki Japan. How many of you have heard of Suisin? It's an incredible knife and BLOWS away the Global or Kershaw knives (Shun). I also have a Masahiro sushi knife I love to use. I can give you specs and types of metal and hardness etc... We can talk about sharpening to a mirror finish on a 16000 grit natural or ceramic stone and go on and on. Bottom line some of the less costly knives will work just as good and you only need to sharpen to about 1000 grit and if you keep it sharp, it won't matter what metal they are using or the cost.

That's what vacs seem to be. I don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get a great vac that will stand up to my once/twice a week work. I take very good care of my stuff and always have so if it breaks it's probably on the unit and they will fix it (if I get to buy locally which I want to do). I'm going to see what happend on Ebay and if I win, I'll pay and get my unit and be happy and feel I got a great deal. If not, I won't lose a second and I'll start to price out the Sebo D4, Moxie and the Earth and go from there. Best buy/value is the winner and I'll be really happy and clean, lol.

You guys have been and continue to be great and I so appreciate it.

Post# 212822 , Reply# 185   1/5/2013 at 22:29 (2,742 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Panasonic Performance Plus Platinum upright

kirbylux77's profile picture
NYCWriter, that would be my first suggestion to you for an upright. These vacuums are VERY light to push, have stretch hose & onboard tools, & a barefloor shifter to shut brushroll off & clean barefloor. Cloth HEPA bags can be purchased in bulk online for inexpensive prices, so there would hardly be any dust emissions. And it's also nice that they have a metal bottom plate & brushroll for durability. And Panasonic is known for's very common to see a Panasonic upright come in for repair from the early 1990's where I live. However, having said those things....DO NOT buy a retail-grade Panasonic!! They are NOT built as well as the Performance Plus Platinum line found at dealers, & you will find many complaints about retail models on sites like Amazon. I would also suggest you steer far away from the Panasonic copycats, like the Riccar Vibrance & Fuller Brush uprights. My dealer, when he was still in business, got the Carpet Pro, Fuller Brush & Riccar Vibrance uprights to sell (as they are all made by Tacony) & had motor problems with all 3 lines! In particular, he had I think 3 or 4 of the Riccar Vibrance models come in needing new motors at 2 years old....unimpressive considering they came with a 4 year motor warranty. Panasonic's Performance Plus Platinum line truly is the best over all the "wannabe's" on the market, & best of all, they cost the same too!

The Oreck, Simplicity, Riccar & Hoover lightweight uprights....I would IMMEDIATELY rule them out. I have an Oreck XL2000RHB Commercial, same as the household Oreck XL's without the headlight, & hate it. Cleaning power is pathetic....hardly any airflow....and brushroll bristles are way too soft! And I have tried the others, too, with similar opinions of them too. Bottom line- they are what a lot of people call them, oversized broom vac's. Considering they want $300 & $400 for these uprights, why spend that kind of money when other full-size uprights clean better for far less money?!

Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition & Royal Lexon S20 canisters.....Again, rule them right out! The Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition has a BIG PROBLEM with the circuit board failing prematurely & requiring replacement under warranty. The 2 wires that are permanently connected to the board that supply power to the PN receptacle on the canister fail prematurely, & since those wires can't be removed & replaced, that requires replacement of the entire board. Some people claim TTI/Hoover has resolved the issue, but I don't buy it for a minute! Royal Lexon S20 canisters are the same canister with different cosmetics, different hose/wand/PN, so I would also rule it out too since it would use the same faulty circuit board.

Kenmore & Panasonic canisters....Rule them out! First off, the older models, including present-model Panasonic canisters, have problems with the PN receptacle in the hose handle, wand PN receptacle, & quick-release PN plug, burning out over time. Those can be replaced easily at home, & can also be avoided with careful usage. However, the major problem with these vacuums of recent has been their motors! Panasonic switched I believe around 2005 to a new motor design that has been VERY's very common to see a Panasonic or Kenmore canister come into the repair shop between 4-6 years old with a burnt-up motor, requiring a replacement, & a $200 repair bill later. Also, for the allergy sufferer....yes it's nice you can use Cloth HEPA bags, but the HEPA filter is an unsealed system, & LOTS of air escapes around the filter unfiltered, defeating it's purpose to begin with. And not impressive considering to get a entry-level Kenmore with decent features, you're gonna spend $300; about $300-$400 for the Panasonic MCG 902 with equivalent features as the Kenmore. Why spend that when for $100-$200 more, you can buy a S2 Miele with their legendary filtration?!

Riccar/Simplicity canisters....Here's my take on them. Yes, they are a good product. BUT when you start comparing them to Miele & Sebo, they don't look so good. Why? Well, they sell in the same price range, have comparable features, Cloth HEPA bags, Sealed HEPA filtration, etc....BUT what they will not be so quick to tell you is only the Riccar Impeccable, Riccar Immaculate, Simplicity Gusto & Simplicity Moxie are the ONLY MODELS that are actually made in America. And even then, ONLY THE BODY IS MADE IN AMERICA & IT'S MOLDED & THE VACUUM IS ASSEMBLED THERE! The fact is, ALL THEIR COMPONENTS are outsourced to Kingclean in China....suction motor, circuit boards, ALL OF IT are sourced from China. And the rest of their canisters, such as the Riccar Pristine & Simplicity Verve, are made by Kingclean in China. The ONLY component that is NOT Chinese-made is the electric hoses....those are outsourced to Hanmi in South Korea. My local dealer, before he went out of business, carried the Riccar Pristine & 1500P for his customers, & he had HUGE problems with the Pristine! He was literally getting brand new vacuums, & took them out & turned them on...fine. 2nd time he goes to turn it on in front of a customer....failed circuit boards!! Needless to say, he was NOT impressed...and this happened with I think 5 or 6 vacuums he received, that he had to ship back to them & have new canisters sent to replace them. Considering they are asking the same as Miele wants for their products, & prices for bags & filters are comparable to Miele bags & filters, I don't know where your loyalties lie, but I would personally choose German engineering & components over American engineering & Chinese components.

Miele....Yes, they are a good product, & arguably one of the best choices you could buy right now in a canister. BUT they are VERY overpriced for what you get. And the cost of their bags & filters is absolutely ridiculous. $20 for one 4 pack of bags?!?! $50-$60 for a HEPA filter?!?! Madness! Way too expensive to use & maintain on a regular basis, at least for my liking. I actually have 2 Miele's that hardly see any use for that very reason, & have considered many times selling them. Also, about the Miele S8 uprights...sure they are nice, but again the high cost of the bags would deter me. Especially when the Panasonic Performance Plus Platinum uprights use Cloth HEPA bags, they clean just as well, & the Optiflow models do have a HEPA filter before the motor now, making them sealed. And generic Cloth HEPA bags can be found for the Panasonic for 1/2 the cost of Miele bags, that would work just as well at containing the dust.

Sebo....I would completely disagree with Rob Shore's comments above! I personally own a Sebo Airbelt C3.1 canister with the ET-C computerized powerhead, & I love it!! And I will one day justify upgrading to the D4 Airbelt model, probably when in 10 or 15 years from now my C3.1 motor finally dies. I personally like the hose on my Sebo better than my 2 Miele's....I find it more flexible, longer, & not as rigid. Plus it's also nice that the speed control is right at my fingertips. You can use the speed control to shut down the entire vacuum from the hose. Only disadvantage with Sebo is unless you have the ET-1 powerhead, there is no way to shut off the brushroll, as there is no on/off switch on the hose for the powerhead. Rob Shore has mentioned in the past he felt that Sebo's suction & airflow wasn't as strong as Miele....I haven't found that to be the case. The bags are bigger on Sebo D4 than Miele's G/N bags that the S8 Series uses, & Sebo's bag & filters are more reasonably priced, too. I will agree with Rob that the ET-1 powerhead isn't as good as the Miele SEB228 or SEB236, the brushes are softer on Sebo ET-1 & doesn't groom as aggressively. However, the Sebo ET-C L shaped computerized powerhead is still available, so you could always specify your new D4 come with the ET-C instead of the ET-1. If that isn't possible, then you could buy an ET-C powerhead separately & sell the ET-1 on Ebay. Tools are just as nice on the D4 as the Miele models too. And I personally feel that the Sebo canisters are better made & better quality than Miele. Due to this, & the bag & filter costs, I would choose Sebo over Miele.

Here are my reccomendations to you for a canister, NYCWriter. Sebo if you want a German-made canister with high-end filtration & features.

I would also suggest you look at a REFURBISHED older-model Aerus Electrolux canister on Ebay. One really good way to go would be to buy one from American Vacuum Supply on Ebay. They have the plastic-bodied Electrolux canisters, usually under $250, refurbished with brand new Electrolux motor installed. Then I would walk into your Aerus dealer, & buy a brand new hose, wand, & powerhead with the new-style brushroll, & new tools to complete it. This way, you are essentially getting a brand-new Electrolux BUT with the better-quality double stage motor Electrolux was known for, not their crappy single-stage Johnson Electric motors they use now. And you can also use the Perfect Cloth HEPA bags in them, which are very inexpensive, & the afterfilters, & get very good filtration....comparable to a Miele with the Super Air Clean filter installed & using the Cloth HEPA bags. Yes, they may not have fancy features such as speed control, but if you want reliability & a cleaner that cleans circles around the others, you can't beat a well-maintained Electrolux canister. I would imagine you could put everything together for a total cost of around $800-$1000.

If you don't mind buying a Chinese-made product: I would also suggest looking at the Perfect C101 metal canister, that is a copy of the Electrolux Diamond Jubilee but without the Automatic Control feature for bag changes. It has SUPERIOR suction to ANYTHING suggested above, or in any of the other member's posts....125" waterlift! That's 25% more than Miele, Riccar/Simplicity or Sebo even have!! Plus, they have a on/off switch on the hose handle for the powerhead, & they have perfected the L-shaped Electrolux powerhead & made it an excellent groomer & deep-cleaner with the new chevron brushroll. Tools are exactly the same as you would see on an Electrolux, except they offer a hand turbobrush instead of a Sidekick. But you could always buy a Sidekick for it at an Aerus dealer or on Ebay if you have to have one. You can use Electrolux 4-ply bags for economy, or for great filtration you can use the Perfect Cloth HEPA bags.

A refurbished TriStar CXL or DXL on Ebay would also be another great choice. Metal body, great suction, simple classic design that there's hardly anything to break down. Motor can always be replaced or have carbons changed when it's time. And the powerhead is OK, but if you desire something more powerful, a Sweep & Groom powerhead & new wands can always be purchased & used with the TriStar. As for filtration, you can purchase the Medik-Aire HEPA filter offered with the Patriot & Air-Storm TriStar copycat vacuums, & use that with your TriStar. Pricey at $200 a filter, BUT you should be able to get 5 years usage out of one too.

If I was in your shoes, I would be looking hard at the Perfect & a refurbished Electrolux myself. Perhaps the Panasonic uprights, but then again I am more a canister guy myself.

Best of luck to you, & hopefully I have been of some help....Rob

Post# 212829 , Reply# 186   1/5/2013 at 23:23 (2,742 days old) by bimmer740 (Long Island, New York)        

bimmer740's profile picture
NYCwriter, if you are set on an upright that is convenient to use but are willing to compromise as far as on board tools are concerned, the latest Aerus Guardian Upright maybe a good choice. The latest model is much more powerful then any previous Electrolux upright, and its a tried and true design that's been around for more then 20+ years. The commercial version, the ProLux, has been used by many large retail chains like CVS and RadioShak for year and both commercial and domestic units can stand up to years of hard use. The domestic model also comes with a 10 warranty.

The machine is a pretty straight forward design that's very easy to use, and it has two motors which allows the brush roll to be shut off when cleaning bare floors. As for the attachments, they are not stored on-board but they are all stored in a nice sturdy caddy which doesn't take up much room. It could even by hung from a large hook mounted inside a closet so it doesn't take up any floor space. The attachments that come with the upright are nearly the same as those that have been offered with Electrolux canisters for decades. The hose that comes with the machine is also electrified and a small electric power head is included as well, which is great for cleaning upholstery and bedding. I don't know of any other upright on the market that has an electric hose, only straight suction with air powered tools. The hose insert directly into the top of the machine, no bending or fussing is necessary and it really couldn't be any easier to set up. While some find the lack of on-board attachments to be a bother, I happen to prefer not having them on the machine. It usually makes the machine lighter and easier to maneuver around furniture since they aren't as bulky. I also like how all the attachments are neatly stored in their own caddy. If you use a vacuum to dust or do above the floor cleaning then the Lux is an excellent choice because of the hose length and where it is positioned on the machine.

The Lux is in the same price range and the TOL Miele S7 machines but they are user friendly and will last a very long time. The bags aren't huge but they are very inexpensive compared to some high filtration bags and the machine also has a standard HEPA filter. Check out the Aerus if you can, I think you will like it. I'm in north shore Long Island and we still have several dealers that aren't that far away, so I'm sure you will be able to find a few dealers in the city.

Best of luck!

Post# 212855 , Reply# 187   1/6/2013 at 07:28 (2,741 days old) by GM1982 ()        
Regarding the Aerus Lux's

Bimmer 740 & KirbyLux77,

I have the Aerus Guardian Upright for over a year now. Its a great machine, grooms extremely well and very easy to maneuver. The tool accessory kit does have the electrified hose and other attachments which are quality, however after having this vacuum, connecting and disconnecting the attachments are starting to become annoying, especially when you have to hit the bathroom floor or above ceiling quickly. I feel this vacuum is better suited for an environment with lots of wall to wall carpeting and very little need or use for the tool set. Also, I have noticed there is some air that escapes at the bottom of the machine that is prior to the HEPA filter on the side of the machine. This is not a sealed machine then.

The Aerus or Electrolux canisters, some have this problem as well, air escaping from the cord winder hole or the handle. I feel the build and filtration quality suffers in some areas, even though its a solid performer.

Next time around, I really would put my dime on the Miele S7, Sebo Felix or maybe a Riccar Brilliance in the Uprights (or) for canisters, Miele Callisto, Sebo D4 or the new Aerus Platinum Canister, which is new for 2013, but very expensive and overpriced, however, the build quality is much better than the all white Aerus line up. 2007-2012 models.

My recommendations:

Upright= Sebo Felix, Miele S7 Salsa.
Canister= Miele Callisto, Sebo D4
High Roller= Aerus Platinum Canister / Miele S8 Uniq
Mid Range= Kenmore Intuition Upright/Panasonic Canister
Budget= Hoover Wind Tunnel
Commercial= Oreck Upright/Pro Team

Post# 212856 , Reply# 188   1/6/2013 at 07:37 (2,741 days old) by ctsooner ()        

This is one great thread. Thanks to all for playing, lol. Hopefully others have gotten a lot out of it. I know I have. I have just been outbid for the Moxie. I am scared about the lack of warranty, even though this is the new unit with the new cirrcut board in the handle. I don't know what the winning bid will be but it's up to 227 plus shipping. The owner of the store and I have emailed back and forth and he sure seems legit and I'd pay in paypal, so I guess I wouldn't worry about it not being what he says it is. He says he buys 12 at a time and then sells the demo's on Ebay.

How many of you have bought demo's on Ebay where you won't have a warranty? How has it worked out? I will be looking strongly at the miele earth, Sebo D4 white (not sure on the power head as there is a choice) and the Moxie or Gusto depending on if I can get a good deal on someone's store demo. Last week there was a demo and I think he said 599, although I'd want it for a bit less based on some info I've gotten on this thread and from some others.

Post# 212857 , Reply# 189   1/6/2013 at 08:03 (2,741 days old) by bimmer740 (Long Island, New York)        

bimmer740's profile picture
I'm surprised to hear about air leaking from around the HEPA filter. I know air escapes from the handle area of my 6500 but I don't believe Electrolux had ever claimed it was a totally sealed system and as I'm sure you know the current model still doesn't have a HEPA filter.

As for using the tools with the Lux upright, I guess that really comes down to a personal preference. I have had the Discovery II, Epic 3500, and Aerus Lux 3000 in the past, probably for a total of more then 10 years and I didn't find it a problem to use the tools, but that is all dependent on the user, and of course it certainly wasn't my sole vacuum.

The Miele S7 sounds like a fabulous machine. I haven't used one yet but I've had 3 Miele canisters in the past and they were terrific machines. All were quiet, very powerful, and well made. I really liked my Blue Moon and its large bag as well as the power nozzle that had the metal bottom (224?) which cleaned my wool area rug better then the 236 pn. The 236 however was amazing on every other type of carpeting that I have and worked well for quick bare floor cleaning. It was quite heavy which I think helps it really dig into the carpet. I've heard some complaints about the handle being heavy and there was a thread on this forum a few years ago where 2 members had a problem with the S7 hose. I have yet to use a Sebo Felix. The Felix looks like a nice machine and since it came out many forum members have given it a favorable review. I just can't imagine using it for extensive above the floor cleaning since it seems bulky and the standard hose is short. However the option to remove to power nozzle and use the parquet tool is very appealing.

Post# 212860 , Reply# 190   1/6/2013 at 08:52 (2,741 days old) by GM1982 ()        

.... Yes the Sebo Felix does have a short hose, hence the S7 is more practical for some because the hose is very long and comes with a wand. The Aerus Guardian Upright that I have (white) has a HEPA filter and its sealed to the side of the machine, but air does escape at the bottom of the unit, near the duct. I mean for $700, there are better options. Ex: Miele S7 or Riccar Brilliance. I think Aerus could incorporate some sort of tool system to their uprights and add LED headlight for this price point.

Post# 212883 , Reply# 191   1/6/2013 at 12:48 (2,741 days old) by lunchboxsean ()        

You want to reduce noise and dust but want a high end cleaner. Simple solution. Miele 7580. Superior hepa filtration, quiet, great carpet grooming, fantastic build quality. Should run you 700-800 bucks. Some of the best money you'll ever spend.

Post# 212890 , Reply# 192   1/6/2013 at 13:42 (2,741 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Thank you lunchbox ...

nycwriter's profile picture
And the irony here ... nearly 200 replies later ... is that I'll likely end up right where I was when I first posted ... with the Miele upright.

After, of course, I do a few other test drives.

Unfortunately -- who are we kidding -- it's highly unlikely I'm going to go to the Bronx or Long Island to buy a vacuum (or even test one). If it's not sold in Manhattan, it'll probably be a "no".

Post# 212898 , Reply# 193   1/6/2013 at 14:03 (2,741 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Ok, here is my take and I am not saying it to piss anyone off, so jump on my case if u want to. .but all higher end vacuums suck well and if cared for will last a long time. To me what it comes down to is the above the floor tools and in my personal opinion is the Miele tools h are horrid especially that dinky dust brush. The old Electrolux now aerus are the best. The flip for brush is great fore bare floors and works great on area rugs too. The combo dust,fabric brush can't be beat anywhere.

Post# 212915 , Reply# 194   1/6/2013 at 15:36 (2,741 days old) by GM1982 ()        


Yes, the Aerus dusting brush is a nice tool, I have it for my Guardian Upright. However, Miele does make a much larger dusting brush, bigger than the Aerus one, its quality. The accessories that come with any Miele, yeah they are small, however, the features, options, fit and finish on Miele for the price is still more attractive than any Aerus. You would have to jump up to the new Platinum canister for similar options of a Miele, but who is willing to pay $2,000 for the Platinum, which still won't have telescoping wands, just to get variable suction, quiet motor and hepa filtration. Aerus does not even have the Platinum on its website yet...they need to get out of the draconian direct sales mantra and market themselves better, or else they will not be able to compete with the rest of the Top Brands.

Post# 212917 , Reply# 195   1/6/2013 at 15:52 (2,741 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

My lux dealer is selling the platinum to anyone off the steet for 1299. Got mine 2 months ago for less than that.
I agree with you 100 % on aerus marketing I don't know how they compete with the average consumer

Post# 212926 , Reply# 196   1/6/2013 at 17:33 (2,741 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Making Sense in Orilla


Very nice breakdown on machines for these two potential consumers. You are spot-on actually with your observations and correct in your characterization of Sebo as better than most. It is. Period. Of the canisters discussed here, both it and the Filter Queen will stand up to use in a commercial setting as well.

As for Simplicity/Riccar, The Moxie and Gusto, formerly 1700P/S36 and 1800/S38 were developed jointly between Tacony and Daewoo of South Korea and the power nozzle by Cen-Tec . Development cost for the project was around one million US and they were built there until the move to St J, MO. The new hose and circuit board were replaced by a Plastiflex model. I am not sure there were or are chinese sourced motors in those units as they are the same Daewoo components. Anyone had or willing to tear one apart? These particular models now are extremely reliable. I just spoke at length with Tom G. just before the Christmas holiday.


Post# 212927 , Reply# 197   1/6/2013 at 17:34 (2,741 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
"Aerus ... they need to get out of the draconian direct sales mantra and market themselves better, or else they will not be able to compete with the rest of the Top Brands."


The world has changed since 1963.

A very big reason why Miele is outselling brands like Electrolux and Kirby is that it's just so damn hard to even FIND those brands anywhere.

Post# 212928 , Reply# 198   1/6/2013 at 17:57 (2,741 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        


Never thought of my Lux Guardian Platinum as being a "high roller" lol! I spoke at length with the President of Aerus this past week about my new machine and what I like, love and feel needs improvement. I do think there will be some changes down the road. He was very interested in what my experiences were with the machine and what I actually thought compared to the focus groups. The development of the machine itself took 6 years and was split between them and partner Lux International AG. I think the wands. p/n etc remain unchanged as they see how the unit will sell in the North American marketplace. I use the 48011 Lux HPO roller assy. from the lux 9000 and it is stiffer than the double helix it came with. I like the way it vibrates the carpet and pulls itself along better. The double helix roller grooms better though. The quality of this machine is also wayyyy better than the Guardian Ultra. It looks like I'm going back to work for Lux.

This would be an excellent unit for NYCWRITER.


Post# 212929 , Reply# 199   1/6/2013 at 18:04 (2,741 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Just back from the Sebo store, lol. The missed the owner by 5 minutes, but I'll go back tomorrow or tues if I can. I will negotiate to purchase the D4 from him with the ET1 head. I LOVED it. I played with it for awhile. I vacuumed a good chunk of the store and I was able to carry on a conversation with the woman working there. Honestly, due to you guys, I knew more than she. She has three hairy dogs and is going to ask the owner to sell her a D4 or a Felix tomorrow. She has had a Miele top of the line for 13 years and feels it is built well, but not close to the D4. She also doesn't like how the Miele cleans, especially compared to the Sebo. She works sewing machines and has never seen the vacuums. He had the 500 Dyson upright there too and that was a joke in both build and in performance. The tools on the Sebo have great shapes and I liked them more than the Miele's tools. The 236 head on the Miele is the one I like, but the ET1 just seems to go where I tell it to and I like the swivel on it. I took the roller out without being told how and it took me about 10 seconds. It will be very very easy to keep clean of all the crap in the house it will pick up IF he gives it to me for what I'm willing to pay. He won't have to spend any time with me to 'sell' me or show me anything and even though he may service the machine, it didn't look like he has a big shop for vacuums. Sewing machines and blinds are more his deal. His brother owns a store about 30 minutes away that sells Riccar. I didn't even know we had a Riccar dealer in the state other than the Glastonbury store, but when I just looked to see his brother's store, I realized that they own the first store I went to originally. Small world this vacuum world, lol. I'll see what happens when I go in with cash and put it in his hand and ask if he'll make the sale. If not, I'll start to work the net as I can't go over my original budget and now I want the D4. At least he'll make some money and move a unit quickly.

Post# 212930 , Reply# 200   1/6/2013 at 18:13 (2,741 days old) by ctsooner ()        
NY Writer

Have you gone to a Sebo dealer to play with their uprights yet? If not, you need to before buying. I went to Lux and the guy was rude and a jerk. I LOVED the new one though. What a cool machine and it's bulletproof. Worked great too.

I didn't even realize I tried the Felix as well as the 800 upright last week when I started to look and like the D4, they felt right and were solid. Worked great too, although I like the D4 much better, but that's why they make so many different models and so many companies make a living selling them.

Good luck to you in playing with the machines as that's what really sets them apart for me. Kind of what I tell everyone about audio and video. You MUST look, play, look and listen BEFORE you purchase and not after you have buyers remorse. Good luck.

Post# 212934 , Reply# 201   1/6/2013 at 18:48 (2,741 days old) by GM1982 ()        


Hey, I'd love to stick with Aerus and want to like their products, however, they need to improve in a few areas, mainly features, price and marketing. They need to get the name "aerus" out there as Miele already does this. Also, I would say the same for Riccar, but they are a little ahead in terms of marketing and promotion, however, they do not allow sales over the internet. Aerus is made in the U.S. and they should bank on that as a solid marketing strategy. However, they need to modernize the machines, like the direction of the platinum.

Post# 212939 , Reply# 202   1/6/2013 at 19:26 (2,741 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Headlights - a pro or a con?

sebo_fan's profile picture
Personally I feel no need for headlights on an upright. Oh I know that the U.S and Canada love them - that's why mostly all uprights have them as standard. In most of Europe and the UK there is no call for headlights -its another thing to replace when they go. I like the LEDs that Miele fit on their S7 but its not standard across the range with the addition solely exclusive on the two top of the line models that Miele in the UK sell.

Clearly then that paints the story - if they were that important you'd have thought Miele would have fitted them right across the S7 upright range.

Post# 212944 , Reply# 203   1/6/2013 at 20:50 (2,741 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
ctsooner and sebo fan:

nycwriter's profile picture
I'll definitely try out a Sebo before making my decision.

And as far as headlights -- I don't see why anyone would prefer to *not* have them. And for units over $300, not including them is just plain cheap. Sort of like the Hoover Convertible uprights from the '60s and '70s that provided a nearly 360 degree rubber bumper surround only on their "deluxe" models, and for the lesser models installed rubber bumpers that reached around only the front and halfway back along the sides. Really?? Rubber was SO expensive Hoover couldn't afford to spring for those remaining 8 inches or so on the cheaper units??

Post# 212949 , Reply# 204   1/6/2013 at 21:25 (2,741 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I find headlights really useful - it helps to warn you before you run the vac over something in the dark under an office desk, or in a dark corner or under the edge of a bed or behind the Lazyboy lounger in the den. It also helps to see if you missed something - even in the wide open turf of carpet in the middle of a room. Sometimes, the headlight sheds light on the dirt or a pen that is hiding between your night-table and your bed ("Oh that's where THAT went...."). And certainly, for those uprights that can be used to clean bare floors, it helps a lot to avoid vacuuming up a liquid spill in the bathroom or running into plastic bags on the floor in the kitchen or socks on the floor under a bed - when sucked up these can clog your airpath and force you to stop what your doing to fix the clog.

Headlights also give some "life" to the vac when you turn it on! It's like it's got its eyes open in the search for dirt!

I must say, I love the little "flashlight" Miele has integrated into the hose handle on the S8 canisters! What a simple yet really useful idea - can you imagine how this will help cleaning a car in a dark garage? I've often had to bring a flashlight down to the garage to see what is lurking under the car seats!

And headlights are really simple electrical devices to add to a vacuum's power head - two wires and a teeny lightbulb on the old Eurekas gave us some brilliant illumination on the Rugulator uprights. LEDs look really cool now - not sure how much more complicated the wiring needs to be for them.

It just goes to show you how the market really works in synergy with the marketers to define what is a valuable feature. We in North America rarely get a "radiator" brush as an attachment with our canisters now - these seem to be standard in a vac package in Europe. Europe has this great idea which has yet to ever catch on in North America: floor polishers that vacuum up the dust as you buff! (The Sebo Felix sold here allows you to buy the attachment that does this here now) :-)

Matt - I sure hope you know how to upload videos to YouTube! :-) We cleanerphiles are going to want to see the new toy you bring home once you decide which one to buy!

Post# 212958 , Reply# 205   1/6/2013 at 23:38 (2,741 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Try before you buy

durango159's profile picture
CTSooner, I would not rebid that demo Simplicity Moxie. I would definitely get warranty. Any manufacturer can have a lemon.

Rob Walton- KirbyLux77, I don't believe I ever stated that Mieles had bad suction. I tried Vaccrazy's Meile Blue Moon and thought it was a great machine with terrific suction. The SEB236 did seem to steer where it wanted and 100% where I wanted but otherwise it was a nice machine. Unfortunately that's the only Miele I have EVER had the opportunity to try. A really nice feature of many Mieles is you can park the wands in the back of the canister and it will turn off the machine while you readjust furniture etc. Then machine turns on again upon taking wands out of storage.

NYCWriter- I don't think you've been nasty at all. I have no problems with any of your posts. Just wanted to put that out, I'm not sure what set off Kirbyloverdan on that. Just out of curiosity what is the dislike towards Long Island. I've heard Bronx is not the nicest area but never heard anything bad about Long Island. It's my belief both are about 10 minutes away in a taxi. Please enlighten and/ or criticize me if any of that is inaccurate!!

For CTSooner, NYCWriter and anyone else seeking a vacuuming I am sticking by my Sebo feelings 110% of completely avoiding them!!! One thing you need to realize if you already haven't is that private dealer vacuum stores do not have the generous return policies like Big Box stores Lowe's, Home Depot or others. Once you purchase and leave that store with a vacuum, YOU BETTER LIKE IT!!! Try, try, try, test, use all accessories, move it around, try different carpet types, bring in a small carpet sample of your own from home or a throw rug from your home and see how you like on all these surfaces. See if the store will let you take a unit home and test it at your home for a day.

What I like on the Sebo D4: long 40' cord, very fast cord retractor, sealed system, very quiet, nice upholstery nozzle, metal bottom extension on telescoping wand, variable speed at fingertips, easy to service brush roll, durable, solid construction and reliability.

What to be cautious of with them:
-- Sebo's only power nozzle that you can turn agitator off for bare floors or otherwise is the ET-1 power nozzle. On that one, it is a very tiny button on the power head that is operable but yet very difficult to turn off with your feet, or maybe my size 10 shoes are just too big for it!! Inexcusable for price paid!!
-- No headlight on any Sebo. On a canister power nozzle where you can go under beds and other furniture, I find this inexcusable especially when paying $800 or so!!!
-- Poor carpet grooming, poor carpet cleaning. On a low profile commercial grade carpet it will zap up rice and other dirt. On a thicker rug, the power head seems to lack the power to properly groom and clean the rug. On a looser weave rug or area rug, the power nozzle turns itself off and is completely incapable of cleaning these rugs at all!!!
-- No edge cleaning on one side, the other side edge cleaning is still terrible.
-- Electric hose wiring connector constantly disconnects itself and flaps around in the air at hose handle. I've never seen a canister vacuum with this awkward loose wire that connects wiring in hose to handle. All of this should be internal, sloppily done in my mind!!
--Inside of suction unit handle has very sharp seam. On occasion I do quick cleanings and vacuum in a hurry. I carry the suction unit in one hand and maneuver power nozzle with other. It's too hard and uncomfortable to do that with the Sebo. Terrible handle design.
--Suction is good, but the Tacony and even another customers Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary canister is stronger. I always run the Sebo on full blast to get the unit to clean right and am still not happy with carpet results. At my other clients on her Berbers I drop the the Hoover Anniversary down to 60% power. My workshop at relatives house where we have Riccar 1700 I run it primarily at 60% power regardless of surface being cleaned and results for both are FANTASTIC!! Yet the Sebo is the newest of all those units.
-- Dusting brush is a joke. Very teeny, tiny and yet bulky plastic on it, makes it difficult to reach many others that you'd want a dusting brush for.
--Unit itself is quite bulky and crashes into everything and awkward to carry.
-- No connection on power nozzle wands to attach power head to suction base for one handed carrying around premises. This is a feature that is nearly standard on several other brands of canister vacuums such as Hoover, Royal, Panasonic, Kenmore, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele and others.
-- Only hose handle functions for user is variable speed.
-- Bend down turn dial for height adjuster. Most canisters are foot pedal
-- Hose handle is uncomfortable after several minutes use-- I have new blisters on my hands from the Sebo.
--Non universal hand grip WILL NOT FIT other manufacturers attachments!!

To each user a new experience. We all have likes, dislikes. In my opinion the dislikes outweigh the pros for the D4 and I strongly recommend against it!! I've been a canister vacuum lover since around 9 years old. I am now 30, and I can't think of a canister vac that I have a harder time with than the D4. I don't like the power nozzle set up on the Kenmore Intuition canisters but at least on that unit it has convenient finger tip controls, powerful suction and better cleaning power over the Sebo. The Kenmore has standard size hose and will fit other manufacturer attachments along with many other Kenmore/ Panasonic power heads.

I have also spoken with Tom Gasko who is on the inside at Tacony and they have made lots of changes to their products and don't have those problems anymore. I know many repair shops that have terrific success with Riccar/ Simplicity and Miele!!

The Perfect C101 is a nice machine, I recommend looking at that. Mieles are decent, Riccar, Simplicity, Lindhaus Aria is one to look at.

Just my 2 cents again!! Want to make sure you REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING!!

Post# 212968 , Reply# 206   1/7/2013 at 06:15 (2,740 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Where all things considered NYC, you have to consider what you need rather than desire. It may be the case that money is no object but Id definitely consider any machine with a longer hose or a long power cord which will be easier to use in a large flat.

Sadly SEBO U.S has not yet bought in the suction only D series canister vacs. Im completely happy with my D2 as it lacks the power nozzle function and I can vacuum whatever I want as my D2 Total comes with interchangeable floor heads. It is strange that even now after a year's release, SEBO U.S have not yet brought the lower line models in. If you are that interested in Sebo's larger canister contact Sebo U.S and ask them if they can bring in a suction only D2. It won't hurt if you ask!

But then when all things considered, I'm not a fan of heavy vacuums; the D2 is probably the heaviest canister vac I own. I don't believe that in all my years of experience, a heavier vacuum cleaner is easier to use or sustains constant or closer physical presence to a carpet, hard floor or rug. I've read other reports of other brand power nozzles snagging on rugs including Miele's different types. For years we were led to believe that uprights gave better performance on carpets just because we had power nozzles and beater bars. NO wonder its confusing in the U.S as the UK don't have many canisters with power nozzles in the fear that it will kill upright sales and also for the fact that whenever they have appeared, Power nozzle fitted canisters can end up being far heavier than a conventional, older upright vacuum that the owner once had. By design canisters should be smaller, lighter to lift and with comparative parts that are just as light and easy to use. In recent years, the push to equip canisters with power nozzles somewhat drowns out the old equation that a canister is automatically lighter and easier to control than a bulkier upright.

Rugs are also all very well to have in a home but unless they are nailed to a floor, they can be difficult to clean, regardless of whether you use a suction only floor head or a power nozzle. I generally find suction only floor heads can get rid of dust but at all times you have to stand on the rug to clean it, to avoid it being scooped up by the floor head. If it is of small size, I shake them outside my front door!

Also I dont believe that by buying a top of the line Miele will get the best results. Here in the UK you can custom build to your needs - so a a base line model that is about to retire, or a model that has limited life left in the range such as Miele's S5000 range (replaced by the new S8) could be an excellent cheaper to buy vacuum cleaner dependent on your needs. It depends on what you are offered at the time of purchase in terms of different floor heads for example - the base machines have great power (and I'm sorry Durango but Sebo's upholstery brush on the D is exactly the same as Miele's round brush, both made by Wessel Werks) and have the ability of storing all of its three smaller cleaning tools inside a flap within the body of the vacuum - the newer S2 and S6 models lack this facility, with the S6 having a much smaller dust capacity bag compared to the bigger GN dust bag fitted in the budget line S2, S5 and S8.

Statistically, the Thunder has a 3 litre dust bin capacity - Miele's GN bags are 4.5 litres to 5 litres capacity DEPENDENT ON the design of the internal dust bin. Having just had a look at the U.S site, Miele's retired S728 canister uses the smaller FJM bag but in that design it allows 4 litres of dust maximum compared to the 0.5 litre lost in the more modern S6 and S4 retired line. I know I had all three vacuums - and I find that the much smaller, more modern lighter Miele canisters have smaller internal dust bins compared to the older, heavier S500 and S700 range (not to be confused with the "thousand" model differentiated numbers with the current vacs.)

Thus for all your floor needs and cleaning desires, I would go for Miele or any canister vac that can get around your property, evidently requiring a long travel or long cord for convenience but I wouldn't go necessarily with a power nozzle alone, thus the convenience of a canister means you can swap about floor tools. I see Miele US have a Miele S5981 Capricorn that comes with a power nozzle as standard. That's a good all rounder, even if ALL Miele canisters have short power cord lengths. That's a compromise you need to live with unless you go for the SEBO D4 and require a dust bag twice the capacity than your old Thunder and twice the amount of cord length. You can also buy a suction only floor head that could give you a much lighter and faster cleaning experience - all of Miele's suction only floor tools with pedals to change down to carpets are well made - and in my experience a great deal easier to use than coping with a heavy power nozzle.

Or if you can't be bothered to change floorheads,try the Miele S7 upright baseline like the S7210 Twist. I may be a SEBO FAN but the SEBO Felix is a great COMPACT upright with a smaller dust bag (3.5 litre but you'll get twice as many bags than Miele's standard 4 in a box) and though it can cope in a large home due to its long power cord, it isn't as easy or fast to use than my X uprights due to the wand release and top hoister design. The Miele S7 has a bigger dust bag than the Felix with a much easier to use wand release and only remains to be less agile due to its physical size. If you must live with LED lights, then go for the Cat and Dog S7260. Anything else by Miele in the U.S above these models seems to be over priced and confusing...

Example - the top of the line S7580 has the same spec as the whole range of S7 uprights but comes with extra small cleaning tools. Miele have added the words "electrobrush" as a feature - but they all have that feature!!

Post# 212976 , Reply# 207   1/7/2013 at 09:20 (2,740 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Durango ...

Size 10, huh? ;)

I'm still going to give the Sebo a test drive ... couldn't hurt. But I have to admit that lack of a headlight on the power nozzle is a near-deal killer. Quite often I sweep in less-than-ideal lighting (inside closets, down dim hallways, and with a canister, hopefully, under furniture). I know that the better-built units can suck up nuts and bolts and ball bearings and 50-calibre bullets and just about anything else safely, but just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. It still stresses the system, and if the headlight catches a foreign object before the sweeper does, all the better to pick it up yourself rather than risk it causing a problem inside the sweeper. I suppose this kind of care is why my Fantom is still almost new after 16 years.

We're not talking about an esoteric technology that requires research, patents, and a complete system redesign. It's just a freaking LIGHT. Put one on. Done.

I was initially excited about the Riccar being made in the USA -- until I did closer research and learned it's essentially only ASSEMBLED in the USA out of Chinese parts. Boo.

So it looks like I'll be test-driving a Royal canister ... Sebo canister ... and both the Miele UniQ and upright.

Post# 212977 , Reply# 208   1/7/2013 at 09:34 (2,740 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Now I'm rethinking. That's the only problems with boards, lol. All along the PN's with light are the ones I seem to like the best. The Miele and Moxie were the two I liked at first and for some reason the lights got my attention. I also feel that the Moxie should have LED's lights, but at least they have them. I love the long cord/hose on the Sebo and that it's pretty much bulletproof. I like the look also. It seems so solid, but honestly, I've spent more time playing with it than the others. I need to take control when I go into the stores and tell them what I want to play with and then do it. I wish I had a higher pile carpet to bring in with me with my own dirt, lol. I honestly can't spend an arm and a leg. I just don't have it right now, but I"m willing to stretch a bit to get my last vacuum. Time to go out again, lol. I still have it narrowed down a bit.

Question: Why does the Riccar site show an 1800/1700 and it looks like it's the same vacuum as the Immaculate/Impeccable? Is it just color? When will the 2013 vacs hit the market? Should I wait a few weeks?

Post# 212978 , Reply# 209   1/7/2013 at 09:42 (2,740 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Also Durango ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I assure you Long Island is nowhere near "10 minutes" from Manhattan. Maybe if you're Samantha Stevens and you can just wiggle your nose and zap yourself there. It takes 10 minutes to wait for the nearest subway train to arrive. Going out to Long Island -- if you don't have a car -- is at least a half-day endeavor (literally) that involves getting yourself to Penn Station (which, depending on where you are in Manhattan can take up to 30 minutes). 10 minutes to walk through the maze and chaos of Penn Station to the even more chaoitic LIRR (Long Island Rail Road) area. 10 minutes to look at the map just to figure out which of the eight or so lines you're taking. Another 10 minutes to buy a ticket. Upwards of 30 minutes to wait for the next departing train. It's now been an hour and a half and your train hasn't even left Penn Station yet! And Long Island really is that ... LONG. Depending on where you're going, it can take as little as 15 minutes on the LIRR (and that's not really to "Long Island" ... that's still Queens!), or, if you're going out to the Hamptons -- 110 miles from Midtown -- it can take 2 hours. Splitting the difference and going to a nearby town like Rockville Center or Hicksville, its about 35 minutes.

Now it gets really interesting. Your train arrives, say, at Hicksville (half hour to Penn, 40 minutes buying ticket and waiting for train, and 35 minutes to Hicksvile -- total time to make the trip out there is 1 hour, 45 minutes). It's a station in a suburban setting (they all pretty much are). Unless you're a commuter FROM Long Island (which I'm not -- I'm a Manhattanite VISITING Long Island), you now have two options to get to your final destination: jitney cab, or walk. Your round-trip LIRR ticket just cost you at least $22. The jitney will cost you at least another $20 round-trip.

Bottom line, as you can see, going to a store in Long Island, for a Manhattanite, is about as convenient as going to a store in Pittsburgh. Actually, Pittsburgh is at least theoretically quicker; hop a cab to LaGuardia (30 minutes or so), 45-minute flight to Pittsburgh, 15 minute cab to downtown.

And we don't do Bronx. We just don't.

Post# 212992 , Reply# 210   1/7/2013 at 12:20 (2,740 days old) by GM1982 ()        
NYC Writter

I am from Long Island, check out these places which are right in town...

Desco Vacuum Warehouse: 131 West 14th Street New York, NY... and if your looking for USA made, looking into Aerus. There are three stores in your area.

Aerus #10286

142 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10011
Phone: (212) 255-5535

Aerus #10285

1463 York Avenue
New York, NY 10075
Phone: (212) 831-2400

Aerus #10273

Long Island City, NY 11103
Phone: (718) 728-5021

Post# 212993 , Reply# 211   1/7/2013 at 12:22 (2,740 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Get an Aerus Lux or Miele and call it a day... all of you! lol :)

Post# 212994 , Reply# 212   1/7/2013 at 12:25 (2,740 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
GM 1982 ...

nycwriter's profile picture
That store on 23rd Street is strange. Not a real showroom -- they have like three vacuums in the window, and that's it ... and the one time I went in the staff did everything they can to get me the hell out of there as fast as they could.

I just assumed it was one of those many, many New York City store "fronts" for money laundering.

Am I incorrect in that assumption?

Post# 213000 , Reply# 213   1/7/2013 at 12:51 (2,740 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I may end up with a Miele in the end. Price has to be right though. I guess I can try and buy it on the net as the service can be local. I'd rather get it locally, but the two close dealers won't move to where I want them to I don't think.

Post# 213005 , Reply# 214   1/7/2013 at 13:12 (2,740 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 213006 , Reply# 215   1/7/2013 at 13:13 (2,740 days old) by GM1982 ()        

CTsooner, You are shopping for and looking at high end brands, getting a blow out deal is going to be rare on a new machine that comes with warranty, throw in bags, etc.... perhaps if you cannot afford these units, look at something more mid range like Panasonic Canisters. Maybe you can get the BOL Miele Delphi for $400 or so.

NYCWriter, Hey anything in NYC is possible, maybe that location was sketchy, however, its unusual as Aerus is a legitimate company based out of Dallas, TX that produces canister and upright vacuums, water and air filtration products. Check the Long Island City or Woodside locations or even request a free in home demonstration. Call ahead I guess. they are worth a look at.

Post# 213010 , Reply# 216   1/7/2013 at 13:40 (2,740 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Most canisters from front of power nozzle to rear of suction unit measures about 11'. Most Riccar/ Simplicity's have 28' cord, Perfect C101 doesn't state cord length on site. Most Mieles on their website claim 33' cleaning radius. Sebo D4 is 40' cord, Royal Lexon SR20 is 40' cord.

CTSooner. Vacuum manufacturers don't change vacuums each year the way automotive manufacturers do. It would be neat if they did!! Kirby won't release anything until 2014 most likely which will be their 100th Anniversary. Rainbow just came out with E2 model, so I wouldn't expect anything from them until about 2015. Miele just released the S8 canister series not sure if they have something else under their belt. Hoover is said to come out with a few things in spring, not sure what though. Royal may come out with something else at that time as well. Simplicity's Moxie and Gusto have not been out long, they replaced the S38 and S36 canisters. They are debuting something else but not sure what.

Try a bunch and get what you like. Aerus, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele, Lindhaus, Perfect, Royal or remanufactured from local vacuum shop are my suggestions.

Don't overlook Riccar and Simplicity because maybe only assembly is in U.S. Is that better than Sebo and Miele which are strictly Germany? Does it matter more where the machine is made or the features, cleaning power, durability, ease of use? It's your vacuum cleaner!!

Kind of makes me wonder if all of this research, trial and criticism goes into a vacuum cleaner. What guidelines are we using for selecting washing machine, refrigerator, lawn mower, car, pair of khakis, pizza, etc.


Post# 213017 , Reply# 217   1/7/2013 at 13:56 (2,740 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I think it's become overload to an extent. Over thinking on my part maybe. I think that I'm getting carried away with cost possibly as I read everyone's threads etc... Everytime I think my mind is made up, someone else comes up with reason's I should go elsewhere. I think all will be top machines. Maybe I will look at the mid sized units if I need to go there to get what I want in my range. I will go out and see. Part of the problem is that most of the shops around me only carry a few of the units and none seem to be the ones I want to try. I got to try a D4 and got excited, but then I read the thread above and it made me think and maybe a bit too much.

Post# 213032 , Reply# 218   1/7/2013 at 14:47 (2,740 days old) by GM1982 ()        

They stock what sells and moves, its impossible and does not make sense to stock every model and have it sit in the stock room and collect dust. To try out a dozen different vacuums and go store to store over a fifty mile radius is crazy! Unless you are the field of vacuum cleaner product development, and are combing for ideas, then just pick one that's in your budget.

Go to amazon or and order something if its not in the local store.

Your going to pay $6-7-800 or even $900 for a fully loaded Miele, Sebo, Riccar or Aerus Lux...unless you score a used one on ebay without warranty.

Post# 213035 , Reply# 219   1/7/2013 at 15:06 (2,740 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Dont forget if you try top of the line and then get to sample a lower model which may be to your liking, you don't necessarily have to buy there and then. I tend to do that if Im looking for a machine and know a seller online or elsewhere you can sell to me at a lower price.

Post# 213044 , Reply# 220   1/7/2013 at 17:23 (2,740 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Guys, I understand all of that. I can get a Moxie,new, locally for 550 or so as he's going to drop selling the canisters since Miele moves better for him. He sells Sebo, but hasn't had the D4 in since Miele will sell over it. He'll give me a GREAT deal on the disco floor cleaner is i get the D4, lol as he can't get rid of them.

He has the S5 Mieles' left (earth, terrain, callisto and capricorn). He also just got one of the new Marin's in. Said they have been difficult to get in. He'll give me a nice deal on any of th S5's new with th e236 power nozzle. I have to see if I can stretch out to 800/850 and if so I may pull that trigger as they are comfortable and good machines. If not, I may to the Moxie for around 550 with everything including turbo head, bags etc... The owner didn't like the wand on it that much and said he's had problems with the cords on the outside of the unit etc..but nothing too major. I'm having fun learning so it's not a big deal and I try not to waste the time of the store owners. None have had any customers in while I've been there and today was the first time I tried a bunch of Mieles or the Moxie out. Both are nice machines and I'll be happy with either. I still like the look of the D4 and it's not more cumbersome than the Moxie.

Post# 213102 , Reply# 221   1/8/2013 at 09:14 (2,739 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
Briefly checked out one of the Miele canisters yesterday at Macy's (don't remember the model number).

Was a bit disappointed with how *plasticky* it felt.

Post# 213119 , Reply# 222   1/8/2013 at 10:43 (2,739 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Macys would have very low level. It sort of like checking out Toro at The Home Depot. They have their BOL models there with 2 year warranty. But if you want real quality Toro then you go to a dealer and see the 5 year warranty lines with much smoother transmissions on self propelled mowers along with other quality fixes.

If you look at Miele in a dealer you see S8 models, better builds and the full line of product that you can purchase.

Post# 213122 , Reply# 223   1/8/2013 at 10:48 (2,739 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Just peaked at website. Not a single vacuum on their website that I would buy. There are no Mieles listed on their website either.

Post# 213131 , Reply# 224   1/8/2013 at 11:16 (2,739 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Durango ...

nycwriter's profile picture
There's a weird distinction of sorts between the "corporate" Macy's (the local chains across the country and the online store) and the flagship store in Manhattan. There's much more selection at the Big Store than you'll ever find anywhere else, even though it's all "Macy's".

Post# 213135 , Reply# 225   1/8/2013 at 11:43 (2,739 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
There is NOTHING in the world

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

like the flagship store in NYC!!  I've been involved in 'projects' there.  It's an entire NY city block.  They always said, "If you can't find it there,  you can't find it".

Post# 213138 , Reply# 226   1/8/2013 at 12:19 (2,739 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Hey Gottahaveahoove ...

nycwriter's profile picture
That Convertible in your shot is nearly identical to what my mom had when I was growing up ... except the hood, instead of aqua, was that same shade of yellow as that other Convertible in the background.

Quite amazing, really, that Hoover put out so many versions of essentially the same model vacuum during those years. These days, everything is the same.

Post# 213142 , Reply# 227   1/8/2013 at 12:51 (2,739 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

If I'm not mistaken on my models and John will be able to correct me if I'm wrong, your mothers Convertible would have been model 1060.

Post# 213145 , Reply# 228   1/8/2013 at 13:00 (2,739 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

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So what other power head canisters or other vacs did you look into at Macys?

Post# 213146 , Reply# 229   1/8/2013 at 13:34 (2,739 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
FantomLightning ...

nycwriter's profile picture
You're right! I googled "Hoover Convertible 1060" and saw tons of pics of what was the precise model!

Mom's bag, however, was a shade lighter than most (just like in gottahave's) -- more of a "chocolate milk" color. My grandma had the same model, but with more of a dark chocolate bag.

Post# 213147 , Reply# 230   1/8/2013 at 13:39 (2,739 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Durango ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I didn't have time to look at anything else. Frankly, I was very disappointed with what they had there. Or maybe I was in the wrong place. I was in the "cellar", with all the other housewares. Maybe they have another department for vacs elsewhere in that gigantic building?

Post# 213179 , Reply# 231   1/8/2013 at 18:23 (2,739 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
No that's where they would be. I was there years ago and vacuum selection was very poor.

Post# 213184 , Reply# 232   1/8/2013 at 18:52 (2,739 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Gracious Home ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Checked out the Miele UniQ and the upright.

Now I'm torn.

Post# 213197 , Reply# 233   1/8/2013 at 20:31 (2,739 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Either one are very good... if you want lighter go with Uniq. S7 will be heavier, but not anything too unbearable, unless your housekeeper is a 90lb lady.

Post# 213200 , Reply# 234   1/8/2013 at 20:56 (2,739 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

I'm not exactly sure where I saw this information, but what I saw was that there were two different outer bags just as you describe. One apparently was apart of an earlier run of machines.

Post# 213217 , Reply# 235   1/8/2013 at 23:44 (2,739 days old) by bimmer740 (Long Island, New York)        

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I know I mentioned in my earlier post that I'm a Long Island native but I do go into the city quite often and my dad worked just off of Park Ave for nearly 25 years. I don't know how this slipped my mind in my earlier post, but my favorite department store in the world, Bloomingdale’s, now sells Miele vacuums. The one location that is 5 minutes away from me located in Huntington has the Miele Callisto as well as two other canisters and an upright. When I was in the Roosevelt Field location about two weeks ago they seemed to have about 5 different models on display. I'm sure that the flagship store at 59th & Lexington will have a nice selection too. I've only been to the Bloomingdale's in SoHo a handful of times and if I remember correctly they don't really have much of a house wares section. Not sure where you are in the city but the Lexington Ave location is certainly much more accessible then schlepping out to Long Island or Brooklyn. I know that Bloomingdale's isn't exactly the most ideal place to try out a vacuum but I've always found the staff in their house wares department to be much more knowledgeable then any others in the store and if you open a Bloomingdale's credit card (living in NYC though, you may already have one) you usually get 15% off your purchase.


Post# 213242 , Reply# 236   1/9/2013 at 04:20 (2,738 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
S8 Uniq Versus S7 upright

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Well, again the old adage - if you need more cable and dust capacity verses compactability and lighter weight, then the S7 should be considered. The S7 is quite a bulky machine but if your flat is large enough with open spaces, large floor space the S7 will be enough for you - however on the mention previously of awkward areas, the S8 would probably be a better bet. Any upright with a large floor head these days can't hope to compensate with the much more nimbler canister floor heads and the thin suction tubes - dont just consider the floor but also the work tops and wall cupboards - they need cleaning too and a canister vac is just so much easier IMHO for getting to those areas.

Post# 213245 , Reply# 237   1/9/2013 at 06:36 (2,738 days old) by ctsooner ()        
NYC Writer

Good luck with your choice. I was torn every time I read this thread, lol. I realized that it really comes down to personal preference on any purchase. That's why all companies make consumables and they all have price ranges and different models. In the end it's tougher when you have an unlimited budget as it gives you every option.

Most expensive really isn't always the best. I can show you in audio/video and knives how that works. I got a ton of help from funeral director from this board and I thank you. He helped me narrow it down and then made me drill down to what I DIDN'T want. I alway used that when dating. My wife laughed at me when I told her that I knew what I didn't want in a wife, but I didn't know what I really wanted. That's a simplistic view, but think about it.

I knew that as much as I loved the Miele top end units, I didn't want to pay for the name. I didn't want a short hose or cord as it's more difficult for me to unplug and replug. I didn't want a unit that was difficult to use as my wife needs to be able to pull it out when I'm gone and use it if she wants to. I didn't want to overpay for a unit. I didn't want a unit that didn't have a warranty so I took myself out of the running for all ebay and craig's list units.

For each unit I said I like, there was always someone who said they didn't like it, but that's because of things important to them. I realized that all vacuums that I looked at were going to do a good job technically, so I just said go with what feels good and then what looks good. Even though I could get a Capricorn and 236 head for under 900, I realized that I didn't want the short hose/cord, plus the PN on the Miele's didn't move like the Riccar/Simplicity or the Sebo D4. I put all three units side by side and lifted them (I also put the S8 Marin in the mix thinking if I like everything else about the Miele's that I'd deal with the hose length, but in the end, I realized I wanted the longer range of the two others.

That meant I was down to the D4 and the Moxie as that unit was being closed out locally for 599 list with everything from turbo head, to blinds head to tons of bags to....... I also knew he would probably take 525 for the new unit and the one on ebay with no warranty went for over 500 if I recall. I couldn't go wrong and was leaning heavily to that unit. On Sunday I spoke with a D4 store and the owner said that he was more than willing to talk turkey as he wanted to move his demo. I told him on the phone I didn't want to waste his time as I wasn't sure I wanted that machine and I wasn't going to pay too much more than what his cost was. He said he didn't care and that I should come in and try it and make an offer. I missed him on Sunday by 5 minutes, but I liked the machine. I knew I didn't love the handle/hose on the Moxie as much. I wanted the swivel on the hose/handle hook up plus it was comfortable. I didn't care that the case seem where the handle on the unit was located. Maybe it was Rob who said he got a blister moving the machine. I will only use that handle a little as I will store it in the closet and pull it out when needed. A simple strip of moleskin will cover that seem anyways. Handle comfort was more important. I found the D4 much easier to use and I like the large area for the bag and I felt the wand was easy to connect and disconnect. I also liked the idea that another SEbo dealer told me that if I get the D4 (he doesn't stock them and told me to get it elsewhere if I wanted it) he will sell me the disco floor unit for his original cost as he wants to get rid of the ones he has. I will probably get one eventually. I liked the look, feel and ease of use of the D4 best. It's built like a tank and the weight is similar to the Moxie, as least when I picked them up. I like the ET1 head design where you can take the roller out and clean it easily. I get a TON of long blonde hair from my wife and dogs and I always have a lot of string, so that was a nice feature for me.

Long story, I called the store yesterday morning and the owner wasnt there again, but the woman who helped me told me to call back in the afternoon. She had my contact info from the day before and I told her to have Mark call me when he got back as I was willing to make an offer, but didn't want to piss him off as I liked his store and they were nice people. I also will be buying a Hunter Douglas window treatment from them I think and I want to have a good relationship with the story I do business with, but I'm also cheap. She called me back a few minutes later and asked me my absolute bottom line. I told her 699 for the demo and she said she'd call me back to let me know yea or nea so that I would have to drive all the way out there if he wasn't able to do that. I didn't hear from her until 4 or so and she said it wasn't a problem and that he accepted my 'bid'. They were great. He wasnt' there when I got there, but the women helped me out and gave me a box of bags too (8 pack). That was really sweet of them. They have not only earned my business, but the business of my friends. I'm always the COI who folks ask about where to get things. I've already referred two people to them for vacuums and window treatments. I'm happy, Mark is happy (even though I haven't met him yet) and the women in the store are happy. My wife even likes the machine. It's black and has no scratches. It was on the floor for less than a month. I'm happy as is was the best buy for me at that price. It was worth 100 more for me than the Moxie would have been.

It's not the unit for most of you and I realize that, but it's for me and I will want to pull it out daily and vacuum and that's what matters. I want to thank everyone for their sincere input. Hopefully this thread was helpful for NYWriter as it was HIS thread. I never meant to hijack your thread, but I thought it was the perfect one to use rather than start a similar thread. On sports/audio boards I hate it when folks start the same thread when we could have merged them to keep the board easier to read. I hope I haven't offended anyone in any of my posts and I read every word on this thread a bunch of times and I went to every link that was shared. I was a serious buyer and you all helped me make what I hope will be a good choice for me.


Post# 213246 , Reply# 238   1/9/2013 at 07:13 (2,738 days old) by GM1982 ()        

You can now see, it comes down to what YOU like and what works best for YOU and your home. Everyone will have their opinions and feedback. Advice..... and I think you got it already. You take the facts and reviews of a product into consideration, a few opinions, try the products out for yourself, make your own judgment and then decide what's the best option for you.

Sebo is a solid growing brand in the U.S. It was only introduced here two decades ago. Its also a 30 or so year old company.

Post# 213253 , Reply# 239   1/9/2013 at 09:32 (2,738 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Yea, I learned a TON. Funny story is that I was visiting a friend who runs an auto dealership when my call came in that they accepted my offer. I was working with a new sales person there and he was a good guy. When they asked about the call, I told them my offer for a new vacuum was accepted. The manager (my friend Brian) was in shock and laughed. Keith, the sales guy (new to the dealership) said the D4 was a GREAT unit and he has used one. I asked him when and he told me he owned a vacuum store for years in his past. That was too funny. I told him the others I was looking at and he said I couldn't go wrong. We spoke about the swivel on the top of the hose and not just at the canister. He agreed with me that he never liked the Riccar/Simplicity design and he feels it puts much too much stress where the hose and handle meet. Not sure if that's true, but it makes sense. He said he never had Sebo's come back for work. Said that the connector where the wand and handle meet is best on the outside even though it's not slick like the Miele because it was easy to fix and not that expensive to get a new jumper if needed. He said he only sold one though as they never were messed up. Said that he had some problems with Miele in the late 90's, early 2000's. Said that he always had broken boards on the Riccar's he sold. Liked them overall and said since they fixed the hose issue that it shouldn't be a problem as I only have one house to vacuum, lol. It was interesting to hear him say that and it just solidified my thoughts. Having fun this morning cleaning, lol.

Post# 213270 , Reply# 240   1/9/2013 at 13:44 (2,738 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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That is one issue I love about Sebo against Miele -you get 8 bags in a box at a similar cost to Miele's 4 bags. Even Bosch are beginning to catch on with some of their bags giving 5 away in a box instead of the default 4.

Post# 213282 , Reply# 241   1/9/2013 at 14:25 (2,738 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Well this board has convinced me ...

nycwriter's profile picture


I've seen the Mieles, but I won't make a decision until I've also tried the Royal S20 (trip into Brooklyn), Electrolux (venture back into that creepy store on 23rd Street), and the Sebo (another trip into Brooklyn).

The Sebo would have to really blow me away, however, to compensate for its lack of a headlight. Yes, I'm one of those Americans who can't imagine vacuuming without a headlight. It's a tiny thing for a manufacturer to install, but an absolutely enormous thing for the user who vacuums in less-than-idea light (dim hallways, under furniture, into closets). I'm amazed that Sebo can take the energy and expense to engineer spinning LED lights to indicate motor speed (something I've managed to live without for 43 years), but can't be bothered with putting a single stationary light on the front of its power nozzle (something I've never been without for 43 years).

Post# 213289 , Reply# 242   1/9/2013 at 14:39 (2,738 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

Don't know if this had been brought up before, but the S20 is based on the Hoover WindTunnel anniversary edition canister. Which has been plagued by electrical problems.

Post# 213312 , Reply# 243   1/9/2013 at 16:11 (2,738 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

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"Based on" meaning what?

Hoover and Royal are two separate companies.

And the Fantom Thunder supposedly has been "plagued" by "electrical problems" as well. And yet I've had not a single one with mine for 16 years ...

Post# 213320 , Reply# 244   1/9/2013 at 16:36 (2,738 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

TTI bought Hoover and Royal in 2006. TTI owns Hoover and Royal.

Post# 213341 , Reply# 245   1/9/2013 at 17:20 (2,738 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I was told by two folks who sell the Royal that they still aren't sold on them for the cost. NYWriter, I take it the Simplicity Moxie isn't in your search? If it is, let me know as you can get one cheap and new about three miles from me. I'd set you up. You may even be able to get a D4 for close to what I paid (I got demo, but he may even sell new for the same. I didn't care as the unit I got is in great shape). It just felt so well built. I too wanted the light and was not happy about not getting one, but I vacuumed again a few minutes ago and honestly, I didn't miss it at all. I liked the shape of the L head and for me, things were easy to use and the suction was great. It sucked out all the sand between my floor boards (poorly laid floor). Loved the Miele, but couldn't justify the cost for me and the guy up here is willing to sell his extra Capricorns down to Earth for 950-800 I think it was.

I'll be interested into what you end up with and why. BTW, to the board, why hasn't anyone mentioned Lindenhouse (can't spell)? I was offered one yesterday for 800 as he wanted to get rid of it. It was a white canister that had a slick Italian look to it and was comfortable. I was going to give it a real look, but I just liked the D4 for some reason and no one has mentioned it and loved it.

Post# 213343 , Reply# 246   1/9/2013 at 17:25 (2,738 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        

nycwriter's profile picture
KirbyUltimateG ....

That is very disappointing to hear.

CTSooner ...

The nearest Simplicity dealers are in the Bronx or Long Island. Might as well be Pittsburgh. NEXT!

Post# 213347 , Reply# 247   1/9/2013 at 17:51 (2,738 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        


In all my years in the vacuum business, I never missed the headlight on the early Lux Omniflo power nozzles like the PN-5. The Sebo ET-1 is an excellent nozzle without it as well. I do like the 236 Miele with the LED headlight better than the vacuum it is attached to though. Hanging out with a very lovely Asian gal there, I have always found there are so many other things to do in the dark besides vacuum. Especially in Manhattan. Wouldn't you agree that a lighted power nozzle might not be that big a deal after all lol?


Post# 213354 , Reply# 248   1/9/2013 at 18:20 (2,738 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Brian, I agree that lights an get in the way, but sometimes you love to see what you are getting into, lol. That said, I just finished getting under a few pieces of furniture and the one thing no one really talks about is how easy it is to get under everything. I now wont' have dust bunnies under everything and that's going to help the air in this place.

NYWriter, I have a dealer up here who has the Moxie on sale for 599. He's ship it to you if you need to I bet and you'd have the warranty. He has two in the box that he wants to move. He's also give you about 100 or more off the Miele S5 models he has left as he has the new ones in already and he stocks every model of Miele and needs the room as well as the money. Nice guy who we've bought from for years and years. He sells Sebo, but didnt' stock the D4, so I went elsewhere or I would have bought from him again.

Post# 213359 , Reply# 249   1/9/2013 at 18:41 (2,738 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

"Based On" meaning the same machine with a different colored plastic and different PN. Stories and reports of circuit board failure are everywhere. Go to reply 185 by KirbyLux77 for more info. They may look like a Miele but they'll never come close.

Post# 213361 , Reply# 250   1/9/2013 at 18:46 (2,738 days old) by ctsooner ()        

NY, go check out video on youtube of D4. I'ts his fav by far. iphone of vacuums.

Post# 213419 , Reply# 251   1/9/2013 at 23:00 (2,738 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Fantom lightning. I'll say it again!! HOOVER HAS FIXED THE CIRCUIT BOARD PROBLEM!! The circuit board problem affected earlier units of the Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Bagged canister model S3670. The electrical board controlled the hose switch for the agitator on/off. The board has been remedied so it will not affect power to power nozzle!! You can talk with Guardsman69 on here and he can tell you more. He is longest operated Hoover Warranty dealer.

TTI Floorcare has owned Royal and Dirt Devil for many years. In 2006 after Maytag was acquired by Whirlpool, Hoover was sold. Maytag ran the Hoover company down the drain during the years they owned them. Upon the sale in 2006 Hoover sold for several million dollars less than they were years ago because Maytag ran them down the drain.

Royal and Hoover are now owned by TTI. The two machines Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary S3670 and Royal Lexon SR30020 have very similar designed suction units but the Royal has better internal parts. Outside of the suction units these machines are 100% different.

Hoover Windtunnel canister:]
old style Windtunnel nozzle. A powerful cleaner with powerful motor but: cheap plastic, terrible front and rear wheels, automatic height adjuster, stretch belt, terrible hose. One of the worst hoses on a canister vacuum next to the Sebo D4, which I have blisters from the hose grip handle!! Thanks Sebo... Wand release will go bad after a few years, telescoping wand is cheap

Royal Lexon SR30020 canister:
New style dual suction chamber power nozzle. 4 carpet manual height adjustment pedal, wand release pedal. Rubber coated front and rear wheels with metal axles, durable, strong built plastic base. Completely sealed system. Serpentine belt, belt protection system. Low profile power nozzle with headlight on lower wand. Better quality telescoping wand over Hoover model. EXTREMELY comfortable, easy to use hose with amazing hand grip. Sealed suction unit. I have internet searched and have not read of any electrical issues with this unit.

I have buddies in vacuum business that like this vac and have had great success selling it in their store. Is it the Cadillac of vacuums and built like a Kirby. NO! However this is one very powerful, very easy to use canister vacuum cleaner at a decent price. I would love to own one!!

I have recommended looking at the Lindhaus canister vacuums as CTSooner mentioned, no one else has mentioned it. The power nozzle on that is one of if not the best in the industry!! Same power nozzle as the MD central vac Stealth model.

Brands I recommend: Royal, Miele, Simplicity, Riccar, Lindhaus, Aerus, Perfect, older Hoover, older TriStar. Miracle Mate is one that looks quite unique and interesting but I've never seen one outside of the internet so I can't recommend without using in person. Anyone with feedback for a Miracle Mate chime in!!

With my experience of a few models from the company and over 20 years passion of canister vacuums, and 18 years professionally cleaning houses. I can of no means what so ever recommend a Sebo for what you receive paying that high a price. At $350 its fine. I can 100% honestly say that my Riccar 1700 canister OUTCLEANS the Sebo D4 on several rug pile heights and textures and bare floors!!! The Sebo feels equal to my Riccar at 60% power. With Riccar running at 100% suction power the Sebo is annihilated!!! I would love to take my clients Sebo out and use for target practice or experiment with some C4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CTSooner I wish you 10,000X, TEN THOUSAND TIMES better luck than I have had with it.


Post# 213445 , Reply# 252   1/10/2013 at 07:36 (2,737 days old) by ctsooner ()        

The handle would bother me if I used it much. I just roll it in and out of the closet and the seam doesn't bother me. I agree that it should be designed better. As for the hose, I love the fact that it's got a Venturi effect design. It has picked up things that my other vacuums haven't. Even my housekeeper we used to have didn't pick this stuff up and she used a top line Miele or Simplicity depending on the day. Every dealer I went to that had both Sebo and Riccar/Simplicity liked the Sebo much more and said it was a much better build. Side by side they picked up the same amount, but on pet hair the Sebo picked it all up in the first or maybe second pass and the Moxie or Impeccable needed three or more passes of the power head.

I don't pretend to be more than I am, a home owner who wants a clean house and an easy to use unit. My living doesn't depend on ability to be perfect like you guys. I would have been very very happy with the Moxie at 550, but the dealer there (who wanted to move the moxie) said that the Sebo is a better built machine and he hasn't had one come back for any issues. He said he get the Simplicity back on occasion for minor repairs and most are due to neglect. He's sold Royals and Simplicity for for over 40 years. I just remembered that he sold me a Simplicity over 20 years ago and I never liked it. I think deep down that was one reason I shied away from that company. I don't know, but it just never said 'buy me'. It always said, you can get me at a good deal. His favorite over his Miele, Simplicity, Royal, Hoover or any other canister he sells is the D4. He wont' stock it because it won't move vs the Miele's and the Moxie won't move either and that's why he's selling his stock of them off.

Post# 213455 , Reply# 253   1/10/2013 at 10:22 (2,737 days old) by hype822 ()        

Durango159, we all get how much you hate sebo, you need not bash them over and over again. there are brands that i do not like, but i am not going to keep bashing the brand(s) over and over again. give it a break.

Post# 213456 , Reply# 254   1/10/2013 at 10:27 (2,737 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Durango, go check out that video and see what innovations they have on this machine. Top suction so it never looses suction with a full bag. Ultra low readings on the exhaust. The most innovative hose around. Bottom line for me is that it works and the place looks great. I have no blisters yet and it's fun to vacuum. I even have grown to like that LED, plus the handle is as comfortable for me as the Miele was. The weight doesn't bother me either since I am not weight lifting it. The four rubber casters move it around as easily as anything else on the market and the longer hose and cord really do let me plug it in once per floor and get the whole place done. How cool is that?

Post# 213476 , Reply# 255   1/10/2013 at 15:08 (2,737 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
I'm starting to think ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Durango doesn't like Sebos.

I could be wrong ...

Post# 213481 , Reply# 256   1/10/2013 at 16:10 (2,737 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

Regardless of what Royal has done to improve the S20, a plastic Chinese disgrace like that should NOT be selling in the price point it is... That should be about a $200-$300 machine max to compete with the high end Sears Kenmore machines. Even Miele manages to make a machine cheaper than that, in Germany no less. As for getting information from Guardsman69... I'll start getting information from him when he decides to not type in all capitals/ignore capitalization all together, and use some form of punctuation for that matter.

Post# 213503 , Reply# 257   1/10/2013 at 16:49 (2,737 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
As I pointed out earlier ...

nycwriter's profile picture
The Hoover Convertible in 1968 sold for $568 in today's dollars.

And that sucker was virtually ALL metal.

Why does a $500 vacuum today have to be all plastic??

Post# 213509 , Reply# 258   1/10/2013 at 17:14 (2,737 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

For comparison, How much would these 1968 vacuums cost in today's dollars? Eureka F&G upright/Kirby Dual Sanitronic 80/Rainbow/Filter Queen/Royal. Thank you.

Post# 213511 , Reply# 259   1/10/2013 at 17:18 (2,737 days old) by mieles7 (DFW, TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
Here is an inflation calculator you could use to find out how much the vacuums cost.


Post# 213515 , Reply# 260   1/10/2013 at 17:25 (2,737 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Longer n lighter

sebo_fan's profile picture
A good point . One aspect i like about my sebo d is that the hose is slightly longer than others AND the all metal tubes are also lighter. Thus in use thered very little need to pulling or lifting the vacuum around.

Sebo also equip their K1& 3 with lighter tubes and long hoses to prevent owners from needlessly pulling the vac close to them.

Post# 213518 , Reply# 261   1/10/2013 at 17:49 (2,737 days old) by ctsooner ()        
sebo fan

Loving that longer hose and cord. It makes a world of difference as you can clean quicker. So far it's taken everything I can throw at it and I can now say things look and smell much cleaner. It's gotten most of that Oreck dry cleaning powder up that I was using for years. I don't think that stuff ever come up fully. I have pets who like to stain the carpet and had used that stuff for a long time. Now I use Bissells product. Maybe I'll start a thread about the best way to clean up dog pee from rugs and carpets. LOL....

Post# 213570 , Reply# 262   1/10/2013 at 22:32 (2,737 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Fantom Lightning

durango159's profile picture
$200-$300 on a Sears Kenmore puts a buyer in their low to mid range. The Orange model at original retail of $229 or the White at original retail of $300.

Orange model in a way is the better of the two because it has a reliable hose that Panasonic/ Kenmore canisters have been using for many years. This hose is a universal fit to fit attachment from many other vacs on market. Quick disconnect wands but these wands are prone to burning wires at power nozzle connection after a few years. Air turbine powered hand tool. The problems with the Orange machine are extremely flimsy plastic for attachment door and main suction unit. Bag compartment is small and bag needs to be folded in half to fit. A new bag style was not produced to fit this machine, instead you still use Kenmore C 50557 bags but fold in half. Kenmore HEPA Q could be used but you'd really be scrunging to get to fit inside.

White model is plagued by the Kenmore series new hose style. The handle is very comfortable. However this hose, also found on Blueberry and Red Progressives are not a universal fit and only fit the attachments which come standard with original purchase. The hose handle although comfortable for user is very bulky. Dusting brush and upholstery nozzle are the shape of the suction opening. They are oblong shaped and don't fit in areas well. The upholstery nozzle is a series of fins that looks like Miniblinds. Crevice tool attaches to hose handle and is difficult to remove and reattach.

The Kenmore TOL series would be the blue Intuition canister. It's very quiet, has dirt sensor, variable speed control, on/off for entire machine and power nozzle on hose handle. In general the suction unit is very nice with large bag capacity. This vacuums problem is the power nozzle. It's a hybrid head with removable bare floor brush that completes the power nozzles. This makes for a bulkier, harder to maneuver power head that in my experience is much more cumbersome to maneuver than a normal canister power head. Due to its bulky connection to power head, once wand lowers to about 9" off the floor, the front of the power nozzle starts lifting off the rug. For a canister power nozzle this is bad as it really defeats purpose of a canister vacuum. The bare floor brush is very skimpy on bristles and connection to power nozzle is very delicate and numerous consumers including my client who has purchased 3 of these units for her 11,000 sq. foot home and separate meeting space over the years has had 2 units break and power head will not reattach to wands. New parts to fix connection cost about $100 through Sears.

Kirbylux77 can tell you more about this than I can, but in recent years, sadly Panasonic has been continuously switching motors in their units and using very cheap ones. Panasonic makes all of the Kenmore canisters so both companies products have suction units that are experiencing motor death at about 4- 6 years old.

It is my opinion that the Royal is a much better quality machine and will clean better than these Kenmores. The power nozzle on the Hoover has longer bristles over the CenTec CT20DXQD series heads found on the Kenmores and grooms carpets better while grabbing pet hair and other dirt faster. The Royal power nozzle also utilizes Hoovers patented Windtunnel design. The hose handle on the Royal is extremely comfortable with long very flexible, durable material and power nozzle is very powerful.

For those have not yet taken a closer look at this in a vacuum shop, I would advise doing so. First look at a Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary, then look at this. I think you'll find its not nearly as bad as you think. Is it perfect--- NO!! Is it anywhere near the quality of the previous Royal Power Tank that we all miss--- NO! But it's a closer image to that of Miele, Sebo, Riccar, Lindhaus, Kenmore and all of those other machines that are also nearly all PLASTIC!! The suction unit on the Royal has a solid construction feel.

If you look at a Hoover Windtunnel bagged canister from around 2007 like the S3639 and those PowerMax series ones, you would be more impressed with the newer body style. It is a sealed system with HEPA filtration which its predecessor was nowhere near sealed and filtration was terrible!! As much as I love its predecessor the filtration was terrible and body construction was flimsy. Not so with the new series!!

Post# 213581 , Reply# 263   1/10/2013 at 23:08 (2,737 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

The essay on Sears Kenmore really necessary? Yes, the new machines are horrid quality wise many people have posted that information many times, most all are familiar with the concept. Only reason I brought them up is they are one of the most known canister brands on the market. My point was for a Chinese made machine why does it cost this much other than for insane profit margins for TTI? Yes, Sebo, Miele, and others (Kenmore aside) you listed above are also made of plastic. The other machines however are NOT built in countries with horrid labor and quality control issues such as China.

Post# 213584 , Reply# 264   1/10/2013 at 23:21 (2,737 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
When I owned

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
my store and was a Miele Dealer , The Miele Plus S251 vacuum cleaners are made by Miele, assembled in China from components of Germany and China.

Post# 213587 , Reply# 265   1/10/2013 at 23:36 (2,737 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
I am very happy that you found a vacuum that suits your needs and is doing a decent job you. I think ease of use, good filtration and powerful were your primary requirements due to your condition.

I appreciate the sealed system with excellent filtration, I appreciate the quiet motor with variable speed at finger tips, I like the telescopic wand as it seems sturdy, I have read about their tapered diameter hose for increased airflow. The crevice tool is decent length, the upholstery nozzle is a good width with strong bristles which work well on pet hair. The 40' cord is awesome. I also appreciate the large bag and suction coming from top which sustains strong suction as bag fills.

I do not own a Sebo D4, my experience with it comes from my newest house cleaning client which is a house with spare rooms for Bed & Breakfast set up. The black Sebo Airbelt D4 was purchased in the beginning of November. The home owner has told me that the house is 11,000 Sq. Ft. I clean at her property about 3 days a week anywhere from 3-8 hours depending on events, my schedule,dirt level, and arranging for different sections to be done. Client is very particular about cleanliness and dust elimination while having lots of foot traffic coming in and out along with pets. The house is primarily ceramic tile with some hard wood flooring, an 18 step, double wide staircase, and several area rugs of varying sizes. Rugs vary of everything from rubber bottomed low pile indoor/outdoor rugs to approx. 20' x 15' low density weave 2.5" long yarn style rug. I've tried a combination of all height adjustments, varying suction for all rugs. I can not get D4 to clean any of the carpets to my satisfaction. Any of the rugs exceeding 1" in pile height to the 20'x 15' long weave yarn rug, the vacuum can't handle at all. The belt protection board shuts off the power nozzle on all of them. I completely understand that for the long weave rug but the regular length dense rugs even my old school upright Hoover Decade 80 can handle fine!! The lower pile rug and regular cut style rugs, the power head just not clean well. I have to push it at an absolute snails pace trying to get it to suck up pet hair, lint and other, visible dirt. The agitator is clean. I've taken it off a few times and cleaned it blue bristles. There's never anything on it, but I take it off anyway just to make sure. I also open up the orange clog release door on bottom of PN and ensure that is clear. I hold back the resistance of the powerheads "self propel" feel so that it can take its time to clean the rug but it doesn't seem to work. Eventually after several slow passes the low pile carpets look clean. Sometimes I still touch up rugs with Powermate Jr. attachment on customers Kenmore Intuition canister. Main power nozzle is broken for the Kenmore canister so I can't use it.

I've taken my Hoover PowerMax canister, Hoover Decade 80 upright-- in picture below, Riccar 1700 canister and Kenmore Lime Green canister vac to this clients house. The Riccar, Kenmore and clients Dyson upright are the only vacuums that can clean the extremely long threaded yarn style rug with approx. 2.5" long threads. However all 4 of my vacs can clean all of the other rugs in the house and do so with ease. The Riccar does much better with tile floors and all carpets in comparison with Sebo. The Sebo has terrific suction but not like the Riccar. There is a tremendous difference.

I'm not a typical "Once over Lightly" styled house cleaner. I'm in the business to clean houses thoroughly and efficiently. I vacuum every area of carpet several strokes. I allow time for chemicals to remove stubborn stains and disinfect on all all bathroom fixtures and tile flooring before final wipe down. The products I use have to clean well and I'm very fussy about cleaning chemicals, mops and vacuums.

I am ecstatic that the machine is working well for you where it didn't for me. I only hope that the trend continues and you're not disappointed in a few months!!

Post# 213601 , Reply# 266   1/11/2013 at 07:21 (2,736 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Sorry it didn't work for you

Hmmm, I did a TON of research. Not many basic consumers would have found a vacuum board to try and get input I don't think. No I'm not in the business, but I like nice things. It's too bad you had such a poor experience with the D4, but like I"ve always said, this is why they make different models etc.... I'm sure I'm as particular as you are about having a clean home. I have lived on ships for many years (retired Naval officer/ship driver) and it was brutal. I am meticulous in the way I groom, dress, clean etc.. I have been a high end audiophile since I was 13 and I learned at a young age to pay properly and that the most expensive or most hyped name isn't usually the best. I also learned that if you don't take great care of your stuff, you wont' be happy and it will never perform the way it's intended. I took my MS out of this equation as much as I could. I realized that just like high end audio, it's not all about the tech specs. Anything over 90 will have good enough suction to pick up anything in a house as long as the heads and hoses can handle it.

In audio, I give input. I ask and answer any question newbies have and I try to always take into account everything they say they need, but I always ask them what they DON"T want. That's more important to me. Then I make sure they go play and listen to everything and then use everything. No matter how great a system or product is, it must be set up correctly and used correctly or it won't perform the way it's intended. Sometimes folks go against my advice and purchase something different than I have shown them. In those cases I've always congratulated them and am happy for them as they got what they wanted. In nearly all those cases they've been so happy years later and that's what it's all about. I never have squashed any of their initial excitement as I don't want them to have buyer remorse. If they think Bose are the best speakers, that's fine by me even though they have no highs or lows, so they must be Bose.

I researched everything about these units and I saw every one of them taken apart to see their motors and where they are sourced. I saw how small the Oreck units really are. I saw the power heads taken apart to see their motors too. I saw how the new Mieles are now made again in Germany. There are things wrong with every cleaner out there. For every person like you who seems to dislike the D4, there are many others who swear by it. This machine has won many design awards and the suction unit is a special design that no one else has. Guess it's a good thing I don't have 2.5" long thread carpets. I only have wood, tile and medium length carpet and a rug that has not stopped my PN yet. I tried the Capricorn, Moxie and D4 with full bags. The D4 was the ONLY one of the three that didn't lose suction. The other two had problems picking up basic dirt and lint with their bags full. I throw my bags away half full, but it showed me that the D4 is the only one of the three I was looking at that won't lose it's power as it fills up. To me clinical test with an empty bag has to be looked at in context.

As for the use of plastic, they all do. There are many different types though. I could fall and the one thing I did take into account was falling down, which I often do. I'd crush the tops of the Miele as well as the Moxie. The D4 is pretty bullet proof and I love the flat top as it gives me something to put my hand on when falling if needed. You luckily dont' ever have to think about something like that when making your decision and that's a great thing.

I'm very excited without any buyers remorse. I didn't have the extra 300 to buy up to a Miele, but to me that wasn't really buying up anyways. I could have waited for a new unit that I've heard is coming out in the next year or less that will have more suction than anything on the market now and will be smaller and lighter. It will most probably have even better power heads etc..., but in the end, it will probably out of my price range too. New things always come out and not all are better so I won't concern myself with what's next as I do in audio. I'll just keep looking forward to cleaning like I always do and I'll enjoy having made a great decision about a great tool as many others before me have. I am sure I misread the intent of your post, especially the last sentence where you said: "I am ecstatic that the machine is working well for you where it didn't for me. I only hope that the trend continues and you're not disappointed in a few months!!". I've learned that on internet boards the written word isn't always in the same tone as it's meant to be. I'm not the only one who took your post to come off as condescending. I got two emails about it believe it or not.

I do sincerely appreciate your help as well as the guidance of everyone who's posted in this thread. It's helped me more than you can imagine. Please take my post in the correct manor as I'm just pointing out that I'm really excited about my vacuum and I made the right choice for me. I too hope that I'll be happy about my choice in a few months from now.

Now if anyone's interested I'm selling a 30" Lynx grill in GREAT shape that has the Powesear, infra-red burner and rotisserie. It's a stand alone unit with the steel shelves and natural gas. I'll let it go at a great price as I've found a new toy that I want for my grilling and smoking that's just come out. I also have a TON of entry level high end as well as some upper high end gear that I'm willing to let go for fair market value as my needs have changed. I'm sure in the future I'll be listing a used D4 as there will be another vacuum that I'll just want more. Maybe that new one I heard about? Won't that be fun. I will promise all of you that I'll only have one in the house at a time.....that is unless I decide to keep the D4 up stairs in the carpeted area and get one just for the wood floor on the first floor.........and the saga continues.

NYC, I can't wait to see what you chose and what will go into your thought process in the end. Cool isn't it? My wife just laughs at me and let's me play. I picked well this time.

Post# 213608 , Reply# 267   1/11/2013 at 09:11 (2,736 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
CTSooner ...

nycwriter's profile picture
"I'm very excited without any buyers remorse. I didn't have the extra 300 to buy up to a Miele, but to me that wasn't really buying up anyways."

I agree.

I have the extra $300, but I'm considering all the vacs on a level playing field.

I'll check out the Royal ... the Sebo (I'll have to just tape a damn flashlight to the power nozzle -- ugh) ... and maybe even the Lindhaus.

I'm sure they all *suck* the dirt pretty much equally. What will win out for me, as in many things, is fit and feel ... accessories (I MUST have a mini-power head to clean the cat hair off my upholstery -- suction alone doesn't cut it) ... noise level ... and ease of use.

Post# 213609 , Reply# 268   1/11/2013 at 09:12 (2,736 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Durango ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Do you clean homes in Manhattan??

Post# 213619 , Reply# 269   1/11/2013 at 10:03 (2,736 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I didn't find many that have the smaller power nozzle, just the turbo ones. Maybe Miele does offer that. That's a good question, which ones offer that? I never even gave that a second thought. See different choices for all. I love it.

Post# 213628 , Reply# 270   1/11/2013 at 11:35 (2,736 days old) by GM1982 ()        
NYCwriter & CTsooner,

The only brands to offer a power hand mini turbo is Aerus and Riccar/Simplicity....see their websites for more information. Lesser known door to door brands such as Rainbow, TriStar & Hyla also offer this as well, however, you will shell out $2,000 for one of those machines, and so not worth it... its all bs!

Post# 213629 , Reply# 271   1/11/2013 at 11:44 (2,736 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
GM1982 ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Not true.

Sebo, Miele, and Royal all offer the mini-powerheads.

Post# 213630 , Reply# 272   1/11/2013 at 11:49 (2,736 days old) by GM1982 ()        

The Riccar/Simplicity mini power nozzle is an add on item, found on the buy now section of the website. Personally, I think its overpriced and Aerus gives it to you with the machine.

NYCwriter: Check the link below, this is probably the best vac for what you are looking for. I'm serious. The miele vacuums have a nice turbo mini, not powered but I have used one and honestly you would think its powered.


Post# 213631 , Reply# 273   1/11/2013 at 11:51 (2,736 days old) by GM1982 ()        
NYC writer,

Yes, they offer a mini AIR driven turbo nozzle, but not powered... show me where then?

Post# 213637 , Reply# 274   1/11/2013 at 13:05 (2,736 days old) by FantomLightning (Ohio)        

Yes, Miele has made machines in China. They however don't anymore, and haven't for years. Even the S2 series that is cheaper than the S20 is made in Germany.

Post# 213639 , Reply# 275   1/11/2013 at 13:26 (2,736 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
The Air

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Driven turbo heads do NOT perform well at all .

I love my ELECTRIC mini power nozzle on my new Aerus Guardian Platnium .

Post# 213642 , Reply# 276   1/11/2013 at 13:57 (2,736 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Wish I could have afforded the planium Lux

That honestly was by far the best one I tried. I could probably gotten a great deal on one and if things were a bit different I would have bought one. Say what you want about Lux and yea they are overpriced but is there anything else comparable? I didn't see anything that would have been for me.

Post# 213645 , Reply# 277   1/11/2013 at 14:26 (2,736 days old) by dysondestijl (east midlands, UK)        

So- have you decided what vacuum to get yet? Also what you gonna do with the fantom?

Post# 213652 , Reply# 278   1/11/2013 at 15:43 (2,736 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I truly hope that you take my post the proper way. It doesn't read in the manor that I meant it to. Thanks.

Post# 213654 , Reply# 279   1/11/2013 at 15:54 (2,736 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Once again the lux platinum is no where near the 2000 dollar price point

Post# 213656 , Reply# 280   1/11/2013 at 16:20 (2,736 days old) by GM1982 ()        
Inquired about it...

I can get one for $975, with a trade....but I'm going to stick with my upright until I move, I have mostly carpets. I do like Platinum, very nice machine...although the Miele S8 is quite a nice machine as well. Id be interested to see if Miele comes out with an electric mini turbo.

Post# 213657 , Reply# 281   1/11/2013 at 16:33 (2,736 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
So how heavy is the mini electric mini turbine? Personally i find the air driven ones sufficient enough. Like everything, periodic cleaning keeps my Miele and Sebo moni air turbo heads functioning.

Post# 213676 , Reply# 282   1/11/2013 at 18:58 (2,736 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
The Aerus

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
mini ELECTRIC nozzle weighs about half a pound if that . Its very light and powerful and does not bog down when cleaning stairs or furniture ect.

I must own about 50 air driven turbine nozzles from many companies and I have yet to find one that works as well as an ELECTRIC one .

Post# 213695 , Reply# 283   1/12/2013 at 00:10 (2,736 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
CTSooner. I have a tendency of putting into writing or wordage exactly what's going through my mind. I like being to the point and not bullshitting. My last line stating that was ecstatic that you are happy and pleased with your expensive purchase and not regretting it months down the road were sincere and honest!! My satisfaction comes from knowing that you are the consumer. You sought out to research and find a vacuum that you feel is the best value for the price range that you can afford.

Viewing all of the motors, testing machines with full bags is something I never would have thought about for a vacuum purchase. My experience of buying a new vacuum is going to a Sears or vacuum dealer with large selection trying the machine briefly on their rugs and getting an idea from there whether or not it suits my needs. You went above and beyond and really did a lot of work. I admire that willpower to to research, learn, try and abuse before purchasing and wish more consumers did the same. If they did we'd see a lot more vacuums on the market that were still 7 Amps instead the belief that because a vacuum doesn't have a 12Amp motor it won't clean well.

I'm also glad you don't have the 2.5" long yarn carpets like my client has. Although its comfortable to walk on, it is absolutely brutal to clean. I don't personally feel that the rug can ever be called really clean either. The threading on that rug is just too long and dirt just hides in it. Definitely an unusual experience for me the first time I ever vacuumed that carpet. The agitator is full of threads too by the time I finish doing it.

I personally despise Swiss Cheese. People think I'm nuts, and don't understand it. But the symptoms that I get from even a good smell of it drives me nuts. I tend to tell restaurant servers that I'm allergic to it if I'm substituting out the swiss for a different cheese on a dish. This way I inform them that if a cook accidentally melts swiss on entree, they have to start over and make a complete new dish again rather than just scrape off the swiss cheese and put on the one I requested. Because I will be able to sense the swiss still. I have worked in restaurants for over 10 years, I have a Bachelors in Hotel, Restaurant Management and consider myself a foodie. I am always advising friends, family and employees to "Avoid Swiss Cheese like the Plague and that its awful and will ruin their day."

My point to the little anecdote above is that in the end the definition of a market remains the same. Buyers and sellers will come together for the purchase of acquiring goods based on demand. The buyer is the one making the purchase with their hard earned money. The majority of the population has a passion for swiss cheese and loves it and if that makes them happy then that is all that matters. You need to buy the product that fits your wants, desires and needs. Once you've made that purchase for yourself it is my hope as a business manager that you are pleased with your purchase and it accomplishes everything that you wanted it to! As my grandmom would put it: "That's why there's Vanilla, Chocolate, and Strawberry Ice Cream."

NYCWriter, currently I reside in central Pennsylvania just outside of State College area. Although I am most likely moving within the next year to land myself a better job, I doubt it will be Manhattan. I've been to New York City a few times in my life. The Subway has rats, the streets are swarmed with cars. I could never imagine driving those streets. I'm not a big city person. I'm not a rural person, as I love being just minutes away from pizza, Home Depot, Best Buy, food store and other resources but I also like peaceful, nature and I love mowing lawn. I don't know what I would do if I lived in an apartment again and couldn't didn't get to use all of my landscaping equipment. Thank you for the offer, I'm sure you'll find a reasonable person somewhere. New York is full of celebrities along with other wealthy people that I'm sure have a reliable person to care for their home. Ask for referrals at work, from friends and look into Craigslist ads.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Also when you go to a vacuum dealer to look at Riccar, Sebo, Miele and Royal, inquire to the dealer about machines that can fit another manufacturers electric driven mini power head. Models to consider could be Aerus Sidekick, Panasonic/ Kenmore PowerMate Jr., Wessel Werk MEB160 and others. You may be able to work out a package deal with them to get a canister vac along with separate mini electric power head and possibly an adapter and/or mini pigtail cord to to make unit work with your canister. See what they recommend.

If not, it's my experience that not all mini air turbine hand tools are created equally. The Eureka PowerPaw, Dirt Devil and Bissell air turbine tools don't work well for me. The Wessel Werk PT160 works well and is very powerful but the the opening set deep in from the front so cleaning steps you really need to run the unit parallel to the riser rather than up and back to the riser. The Hoover Windtunnel designed air turbine tool is a very good one and I've had great luck with that one.

Post# 213699 , Reply# 284   1/12/2013 at 00:26 (2,736 days old) by vacuumalex ()        

I think the very best overall vacuum is a Royal Everlast. The all metal uprights are wonderful cleaners. They've restored my carpets. Worked much better than a Riccar Tandem Air and Lindhaus that the salesman at the vacuum store tried to push on me. They are a little loud, but so worth it. A Kirby is a similar vacuum and will probably do about the same, but a little quieter. The fan is made from plastic rather than metal, but other than that they are about the same. Can't go wrong with a Royal Everlast though!

Best of luck,


Post# 213722 , Reply# 285   1/12/2013 at 08:04 (2,735 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Thanks and I'm glad we are good. Your email helped me narrow things down. The full bag test was great and a real eye opener for me as well as the store owners. I only dealt with the owners of the stores as I was going to negotiate and I didn't want the middle man. I told the owners as I walked in the door, what I wanted to try, how I was going to try it and what I'd pay if I decided liked the machine and them. I didn't play games and there was only ONE owner who was a major jerk. I'd never shop at Glastonbury Vacuums in Glastonbury CT again for anything. The owner actually got mad at me when I offered 699 for his highly used demo D4. I knew I could get it for that price new at the place I bought it at (I decided to just take the guys demo for that price as it was barely used). I had been warned about that store from someone during my search.

Back to the full bag test. You guys know what you are doing and the problem most people have is that they keep the bag in too long. That's why Dyson 'invented' bag-less (or was it another that I'm not aware of). It was so the vacuum wouldn't loose suction. The dealer I got my Sebo from sells Dyson. He's not a vacuum store as much as a window treatment, carpet, interior design place. He said the Dyson does indeed loose suction as it fills. There is less space for airflow and hence you should loose some. I think the reason Sebo doesn't loose much if any, is because of that large cavity the bag sits in. It's a hybrid cyclonic and I'm going to discuss this with a manufacturer of shop vacuums at the wood show I'm going to on Sunday. Cyclones are hitting the woodworking field in a huge way right now and I like Sebo's process even better.

It will be very interesting when a certain 'named' company comes out with their new vac that will be nearly mid sized, but MUCH more powerful than any of the canisters we are discussing in this thread. It seems like they have listened to every post in this thread and are re inventing the canister. I can't believe that I even care about that, but toys are still toys to me, lol.

As for long carpet, it's never been my thing. I've never even been a lover of carpet. I have had wood floors in all of my houses and usually a carpeted bedroom. My master BR has a huge Stickley area rug under the bed and a wood floor. I find that it's been easy for me to just take off the PN and use the floor brush in there. Adapt, adapt, adapt. You won't miss most things if you don't have them to begin with.

As for Swiss cheese, I love all cheeses other than American. Processed stuff doesn't do it for me. I don't even eat Rotel/Velveeta dip anymore. I was accepted to CIA/Hyde Park (was their only campus in 78) out of HS, but it was a 2 yr program and dad said I had to go to a 4 year one. That's the only reason I didn't end up as a chef. My goal back then was to apprentice two or three years in Paris at various places and then do the same for 5 years in Japan to become a true sushi chef and then to Hong Kong for a few years to learn the art of Cantonese style seafood. I then wanted to come back to the states after traveling as a young person and opening up my own place in the SoCal area. I also wanted to have my own cooking show as I grew up as a 5yo and learned from Julia Childs. This was all before cable TV and food networks took hold and I believe I would have been a pioneer and done well, but I went to Oklahoma Univ and majored in Journalism instead. I did NROTC and was commissioned as a Naval officer and drove ships and commanded some great young people in my life. I never got to do my radio/TV gigs once I left college and I miss it to this day, but I've been blessed and I get to cool daily for a wonderful woman and my kids when they come over. Yes, I cut my own fish and I have my own set of Japanese knives, including a 300mm yanagi that I mirror polish the edge on. Just another fun hobby, lol. The knife guys are also into their own specific makes and models, but after awhile you realize that you can sharpen to 1000 grit and it will cut just as good as the one taken up to 8000 or higher as long as you don't use a microscope to look at the cut ;).

Post# 213724 , Reply# 286   1/12/2013 at 08:25 (2,735 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Well ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I tried out an Electrolux. The brand-new model they just got in literally three days ago -- apparently it's a "Guardian" metal body.


I think I may be sold.

The hose ALONE could sell me -- I didn't realize they even made such high-quality hoses anymore.

Oh yes, and it has a HEADLIGHT. ;)

I walked down to 14th Street, but the store that sells the Royal was closed. Don't worry, I'll still give the Royal and the Sebo a fair shake.

But I think I've found a winner here.

And as far as my Fantom -- well I want it to go to a good home. Where better than here to ask if anyone's interested?

Post# 213725 , Reply# 287   1/12/2013 at 08:56 (2,735 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Alex ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I agree with you on the Royal Everlast.

I just wish it were appropriate for the space I have now.

Actually, I'll be in the process of buying a second home in Pittsburgh. Then there will be plenty of wide-open carpeted spaces for such an animal to roam free! LOL.

Post# 213741 , Reply# 288   1/12/2013 at 10:48 (2,735 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Matt - with this new Aerus Guardian Platinum, you should be wary of the following potential problems:

You said you don't have a lot of storage space. Check to see how much space this takes up in the closet. I don't know if the power nozzle can hang from the main canister nose down, and so it might have to sit flat on the floor. Also, the wands aren't telescopic, so you will have this bulky handle with the on board dusty attachments stored high up jabbing into your hanging coats and jackets.

Also, it seems that attaching the dusting brush is a two step process - you have to attach an adapter first, then put on the brush. Not sure where the adapter stores. The hose handle seems rather cumbersome for dusting bookshelves and getting into tight spaces, compared to the simple hose handle on a Miele upright.

Vacuumlanders know that I am one of those that appreciates Consumer Reports test results. They usually have a full updated set of ratings in the spring in time for spring cleaning. Therefore, you might want to wait a few weeks to see the results of tests on some of these new vacs (Miele S8 canisters, Aerus Guardian, the Moxie, etc). I am a little suspicious of the performance of that Aerus power nozzle on carpets: it's never excelled at carpet cleaning like some of the competing Miele and Panasonic/Kenmore nozzles.

Just some things to think about.... :-)

Post# 213743 , Reply# 289   1/12/2013 at 11:02 (2,735 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Consumer Reports is not

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
the Bible to Vacuum testing .

They do it in controlled enviroments using talcum powder and sand and many vacuum manufactures and Vacuum shops do not agree with their findings . Many vacuum collectors do not agree with them either . They need to go into homes and test real world dirt .

It`s a refrence but not to be taken seriously as they dont test in real world situations . It all comes down to personal preference I own this machine and love it . All it took was one demo and I was sold. This is unlike any Aerus ever produced . Plus my over 40 years experience and owning over 400 vacuums I think I know a tad more about vacuums than Consumer Reports .

The Aerus Guardian Platinum is a much more powerful vacuum than pervious Aerus Vacuums .

Post# 213745 , Reply# 290   1/12/2013 at 11:27 (2,735 days old) by GM1982 ()        

...see I told you to check out the Platinum, its a nice machine and has all the options your looking for. (Headlight)

Post# 213747 , Reply# 291   1/12/2013 at 11:47 (2,735 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture

I trust Consumer Reports because as a scientist, I like to see the results of scientific tests done in controlled environments. I have been interested in vacuum cleaners for over 40 years, and in most of my encounters with the owners of specialty vac stores and their salesmen, I have been given a lot of misinformation in order for them to make a good sale. Consumer Reports has saved me lots of time and money over the years by giving me comparitive facts about observable and measurable characteristics of a product. When used intelligently, these test results are a big help in choosing a product. They are on the consumers' side when it comes to making a purchase. If in two identical tests the power nozzle of one vac removes vastly more test material than a second vac, I trust that scientific data more than the sales shpeel of a vac salesman. And it's not as if I blindly follow what is on the top of the ratings list. The CR website allows you to filter the ratings to match the data that is more important to you. For instance, if I already have an upright for carpet cleaning, and am only interested in a canister for cleaning everything else, I can create a ranking of vacs on the market that have strong airflow thru the hose for tool use, and ignore how they fared in the carpet cleaning category. Then I can even sort the results by price to see how low a price I can get for a vac that does those things well.

To me this information is much more reliable than the information given to me by a vac salesman who is not honest - and I have experienced far too much of that in many vac shops.

Because of the valuable work of Consumer Reports, I am now the proud owner of a Hoover Tempo Upright and an Electrolux UltraSilencer Green. This two vacs are the easiest vacs I have ever used, and they are excellent dirt removers. The combined cost to me was 500 Canadian dollars, which helped save me lots of money. I also saved hours running around to different vac stores in order to listen to sales people who were more concerned about their profit margins than selling a vac that is good value for the money.

Don't get me wrong: I know that there are many honest hardworking people out there in the vacuum stores, and it seems many of the nicest ones are to be found right here at Vacuumland. It's just that I have encountered too many sales people who have treated me condescendingly as if I know nothing about vacs. How would you like to be charged for a belt replacement on an upright when you had just put in a fresh belt before handing the vac over for some other repair? This happened to me when we dropped off our Hoover SP WT upright when Hoover recalled them for a free switch replacement....

I accept the fact that many dealers dislike Consumer Reports, but as a vacuum fanatic, I am allowed to like the organization and the tests they do. Just like we should avoid brand-bashing on this website, we should also avoid CR bashing, in my opinion.

Post# 213749 , Reply# 292   1/12/2013 at 11:53 (2,735 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
No bashing

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
here you love them I dont that my right as here in the US we have freedom of speech .

I own over 400 vacuums and owned a store and managed another one. 40 + years experience and repaired , owned and researched thousands of vacuums in those years . Compared to a collection of two vacuums ? I guess a scientist with a copy of consumer reports trumps that though ?

This post was last edited 01/12/2013 at 13:51
Post# 213781 , Reply# 293   1/12/2013 at 14:59 (2,735 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Lux Platinum


The wands are better on the Platinum than the Epic wands on the Legacy and the handle is more sturdy. I use the attachment holder on the lower wand and it is growing on me. I am not so crazy about the adapter for the combo dusting and upol brush BUT these are very high quality Most of the others on the market feel cheap to me. An attachment caddy, brush, crevice and upol. tool for the Tristar in matching black cures the problem for an extra $50 for those it bothers. I will say it again this vacuum has very high quality attachments and mind-blowing performance. I always add an extra set of wands so I have the combo rug and floor tool separate from the PN. The black wands should be avail to order now.

As I stated above I hate Consumer Reports. In a recent conversation with Tom Gasko (the person who answers the few vacuum questions I can't correctly) I changed the roller assy to the Lux HPO green brush. ASTM testing numbers show about 75% for the OEM double helix and about 85% soil removal with the more agressive green brush. In real world scientific testing (far and above CR's engineering prowess) what this really means is the Lux Omniflow on my machine performs about the same with the HPO roller as the Miele 236 does. And some say the Lux nozzle can't deep clean a carpet. I may well have forgotten more than the engineers ar CR will ever know about Lux, Miele, Sebo, Simplicity and FQ.

NYCWRITER you will be very pleased with this machine and its quieter than the Miele Capricorn. BUY IT!


Post# 213785 , Reply# 294   1/12/2013 at 15:09 (2,735 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Thank you Brian

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
is the Green brush roll available for purchase ? If so where can I get one from all of my sources just stock the regular brush roll ?

You are correct ASTM is the ONLY true test for vacuum cleaners . Plus our knowledge and many years experience tops it all off .

If you are truely passionate about a product you will learn and know more than any magazine could ever teach you .

Post# 213788 , Reply# 295   1/12/2013 at 15:32 (2,735 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Green Roler


Aerus in Salem, NH has two that are used and literally brand new. Call Felix to see if they are still avail. I bought the last two new ones Aerus had in the FOAS system. These were only made for the 9000 one year and p/n is 48011. The new 1.2 A Johnson motor spins it just fine compared to the 2.1A motor that came with the 9000 power nozzle.


Post# 213789 , Reply# 296   1/12/2013 at 15:38 (2,735 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Another plus going for the Electrolux ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... the store manager told me that for the *life* of my sweeper, for any and all repairs and service, they do free pick-up and delivery. That may not sound like a big deal out in the rest of America where people have cars, but here in New York City, that's worth its weight in gold (practically); if your sweeper breaks, you usually have to pay a hefty fee for pick-up and delivery ... try to drag the darn thing on the subway (of course making a special trip, because it's not something you want to drag with you to work in the morning) ... or pay for a cab.

Post# 213794 , Reply# 297   1/12/2013 at 16:35 (2,735 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I fully appreciate that. My wife and I are talking about getting a small condo in the city in a few years possibly and we speak about stuff like that all the time. I'm so happy you went to Lux. Brian has been telling me about his and I wish I could have afforded it. I loved that one as well as the Miele Capricorn, but couldn't really afford either at the end of the day. You'll be really happy with that one I'm sure.

Well, my wife dropped an ornament today and it shattered all over the chair and the floor. Shards everywhere. I said, don't worry dear, I'll break out the Sebo. It was quick and picked up everything. I used the upolstery brush and did the chair. WHAT a pleasure. It was as good as new. I've never vacuumed that chair as I had the Oreck upright. I did the whole downstairs and it looks great. I do enjoy being able to stand the motor on it's end and then make the wand nice and small to fit in the small closet we use to store it. The body on that Lux uint didn't seem to be too big to me. The first thing the guy did at the store was to crush the hose for me to see. It's a beast and makes you feel that the machine is better made than anything else. I love the hose on my Sebo too as it's very very sturdy and also crush free. I didn't love the Miele hoses for some reason.

Post# 213799 , Reply# 298   1/12/2013 at 18:13 (2,735 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
The Miele hoses ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Feel very cheap to me.

I know they're made out of some sort of unbreakable space-age plastic ... but they still feel cheap, like they'll dry out and crack after a couple years.

Post# 213802 , Reply# 299   1/12/2013 at 19:48 (2,735 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Nycwriter, I have had electriolux's for more years than I would care to mention, but I don't think there is any company left in the country that still picks up and delivers if service is ever needed.. The few times I needed service they usually just fix it right in my home. When I do the every five year preventive maintenance on my machines they pick up and deliver..same with bags, filters, they drop them off at my house.

Post# 213804 , Reply# 300   1/12/2013 at 19:49 (2,735 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

I should have said above any other company besides aerus Electrolux who picks up and delivers

Post# 213877 , Reply# 301   1/13/2013 at 10:51 (2,734 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Aerus has a

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
customer service that is like no other . It is an old fashoned way of doing business but should be the way all company`s should operate especially with everyones busy live`s and people living in busy cities . Plus to have the best bagged canister IMO it`s an easy choice !

Post# 213884 , Reply# 302   1/13/2013 at 11:55 (2,734 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Re: Mielel hoses

sebo_fan's profile picture
My longest standing Miele cylinder (S571) lasted about 8 years. The hose had been trampled on many times as well as general abuse. But true to the quality, it never broke once. Infact it lasted longer than the machine itself. I have never heard of a Miele hose drying out, let alone any other plastic hose on a canister or upright vac.

Post# 213888 , Reply# 303   1/13/2013 at 12:10 (2,734 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
It seems that

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
many Miele vacuums last about 10 years or less when I owned my store customers would bring in dead less than 10 yo Mieles to trade for new vacuums .

Compared to Aerus formerly Electrolux I still have and use my Aunt B`s 1947 model XXX I dont hear too many stories of that old Mieles still being used.
Don`t get me wrong I like Miele I love German products I drive German cars .
You rarely if ever see vintage Mieles for sale say on eBay but you`ll fing many vintage Electrolux vacuums there .

Besides Kirby , Filterqueen and Ranibow these DTD brands seem to hold up better than any TOL vacuum out there .

Post# 213892 , Reply# 304   1/13/2013 at 12:22 (2,734 days old) by GM1982 ()        

I don't think Miele vacuums have been available in the U.S. market as long as Electrolux, to hear of a 20+ year old Miele still in service. correct me if I am wrong about this. Maybe in Europe its more common.

How is a Rainbow vacuum? Never had any experience.... Does that water become cumbersome every time you need to vacuum?

Post# 213895 , Reply# 305   1/13/2013 at 12:32 (2,734 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
How old are you ?

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Miele has been here since 1984 29 years . Where are all the 29 yo vintage Mieles for sale ?

Rainbows are for a select few people I have many water based vacuums but get lazy using them . When I do use them they are amazing and you home stays dust free .

Post# 213896 , Reply# 306   1/13/2013 at 12:43 (2,734 days old) by GM1982 ()        
30 years old...

maybe people still have them, or traded it in for a new model...I don't know, guessing.... I do see many more old Electrolux on ebay if you do a search. But then again, I do not see older model Riccar or Simplicity either....

Post# 213905 , Reply# 307   1/13/2013 at 13:44 (2,734 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

I still have my 1976 Electrolux super j works perfectly. I also have me grandmothers xxx which still works from 1937.

Post# 213928 , Reply# 308   1/13/2013 at 16:53 (2,734 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH)        
Lux Platinum Canister would be my vote......

pr-21's profile picture
My first imput on this thread, but Kirbyloverdan has a thread going about the above cleaner. You can actually watch the video. I kind of collect like Dan does. I have Mieles, Electrolux, Aerus, New Black Rainbow, Kirby's including the Sentria II. In your first post, you said money was no object, but were concerned about storing a canister. I don't have this vacuum, but it will be the next one I get. I did have the Aerus TOL Canister before this one and was disappointed and wrote Aerus about my concerns. My biggest problem with it was the loudness and too much suction. It would stall out the mini power nozzle even using the suction control on the handle. This new one has at least 8 suction levels and an auto control, which some Mieles have. It will have a rather small foot print when stored upright and the easiest bag change ever invented. Can't put the bag in wrong....It also has two hepa filters. One that will need replaced and a long life one.

I am so excited about this vacuum. I am glad Aerus is bringing back the quality we all expect from an Aerus/Electrolux vacuum. If you can't get to them, I am sure they would come to you.


Bud Mattingly

Post# 213954 , Reply# 309   1/13/2013 at 19:29 (2,734 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Seems like Aerus is still the top

brand in vacuums. I went to a bunch of stores and I made sure I went during 'off hours' so that I could truly test drive and not take time away from the owners, but I was very serious and open as to what to get and where to get it.. Every place I went sold Miele, except where I got my Sebo. There was only one used Miele for sale and that was the 10 yo Silver Moon. Most said the motors will last about 10 years and cost over 3 bills to replace. I would think that's one reason there may not be that many available even though they are so popular. Just a guess.

Post# 214012 , Reply# 310   1/14/2013 at 09:30 (2,733 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
On vacuum popularity ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I think perhaps one main reason Miele is so popular among the top-tier vacuums is simply because they're sold EVERYWHERE (like Hoovers), as opposed to the direct sales or exclusive distributorships for Kirby, Electrolux, etc., which forces potential customers to go out of their way to buy them.

Can anyone explain why, out of all the household appliances, VACUUMS have historically had such a convoluted sales route from manufacturer to consumer?

Post# 214026 , Reply# 311   1/14/2013 at 10:14 (2,733 days old) by GM1982 ()        

That is a very good question. I want to guess that a lot of the convoluted sales has occurred from the Direct Sales brands. (Kirby, Electrolux, Rainbow, etc.) As other brands grew (Miele, Sebo, Dyson, Oreck, Eureka-lux etc.) the direct sales method became more challenging because other brands are using a retailer network and online videos to sell the product. In a sense they are using there own websites, social media and a retailer network to market and sell. Direct sales brands I think have a tough time with adopting different methods of marketing and selling....what worked 40 years ago, does not work today. Another assumption is they do not want to institute a specific price for the product, rather overprice the product and negotiate to see how much we can rape the customer for. Many times I think this steers the customer to Sebo and Miele.

Post# 214031 , Reply# 312   1/14/2013 at 10:26 (2,733 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Yeah ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... I really have no patience with the whole haggling thing. Pain in the a$$. I also resent the fact that someone can walk away with X product for hundreds of dollars less than I did because he was a better negotiator.

Post# 214032 , Reply# 313   1/14/2013 at 10:35 (2,733 days old) by ctsooner ()        

I had Kirby stop by last year and when I realized how messed up the pricing was I decided I wouldn't be buying one, but I sent them to my ex who did buy. I found out that they would let the whole thing go for 1000, I told my ex. That's exactly what she paid for her Kirby (everything including the carpet cleaner).

It's too bad since is seems like a great vacuum.

Post# 214034 , Reply# 314   1/14/2013 at 10:36 (2,733 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
direct sales vacuum companys are still in business and are doing very well so im guessing they must be doing something right ?

Lets see if Miele and Sebo are still around as long as they have been especially when many mom and pop vacuum shops are trying to stay afloat and keep their doors open .

The sales tactics in many vacuums shops can be pretty nasty also . I have many friends who own stores and they say they are NOT in business to repair your vacuum but rather when a customer comes in with a repair you MUST sell them a new vacuum PERIOD . So I guess its everywhere not just the D2D people .

Post# 214035 , Reply# 315   1/14/2013 at 10:38 (2,733 days old) by GM1982 ()        
NYC writer,

I had to haggle to get my Aerus at a price I was willing to pay. They started at $1,300, I walked away with Upright & Tools for $700 with a trade. Good machine, very durable, however, the sales experience was undesirable.

Post# 214036 , Reply# 316   1/14/2013 at 10:38 (2,733 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Every single

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
item for sale is 100% negotiable , I always haggle on every purchase and I never pay full price let alone asking price .

Post# 214052 , Reply# 317   1/14/2013 at 11:59 (2,733 days old) by ctsooner ()        
I am so glad I found this board

I was going to get screwed if I didn't do my homework. I do wish I had the bucks to get the new Lux. That would have been easy, but there are so many choices and they are all pretty close. I wish that Lux could offer the new one for under 1k for everyone. If I went to an Aerus dealer, I bet I couldn't come close to getting it for anything near that price. I tried and the guy was not cool. He tried playing games with me and I walked out as did another woman who was there to purchase one. She said to me outside that she wouldn't buy from a guy like that. She said there are other Aerus dealers who would want our business. I knew it wasn't me when that happened.

You have to be an informed consume now days.

Post# 214069 , Reply# 318   1/14/2013 at 12:24 (2,733 days old) by gm1982 ()        

Unfortunately that's what gives Aerus a crappy image, the arrogant store owners who want top dollar for a basic machine.

Post# 214070 , Reply# 319   1/14/2013 at 12:32 (2,733 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
company store has someone who is nasty . All the Aerus stores I have visited have been very pleasant .

Many times going into a vacuum store sales people / owners can be mean also .

No matter what kind of business you have good and bad people it`s just the way humans are .

Aerus has one of the best customer service compared to many D2D companies for selling top quality lifetime lasting vacuums.

Post# 214071 , Reply# 320   1/14/2013 at 12:54 (2,733 days old) by ctsooner ()        

Oh, as I said there are other Aerus stores. I was just put off, plus i realized I didn't need to spend over 1k and decided not to go that route. I would have bought from an Aerus dealer on this board or through Brian if I went that route most probably.

Post# 214074 , Reply# 321   1/14/2013 at 13:02 (2,733 days old) by gm1982 ()        

All of the Long Island locations I have been to we're not that nice at all..... Three have shut doors and Miele is popping up more and more, they are even in some Oreck stores and Bloomingdales. I have received excellent customer service, demos and no pressure sales at all from any Miele stores

Post# 214075 , Reply# 322   1/14/2013 at 13:03 (2,733 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Actually, CTSooner, that's a good question ...

nycwriter's profile picture
If I bought an Electrolux off of one of YOU guys ... through the mail ... would I still be able to get it serviced by my local dealership?

Post# 214094 , Reply# 323   1/14/2013 at 15:07 (2,733 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
as long as they register the warranty in your name it doesnt matter where you get it from . If you want I can call my guy and see what price he can sell you the Aerus Platinum for and he could ship it to you . He is a very nice guy I guess the NY stores have not too nice people . I have encountered that while shopping in NY for various items the store clerks just don`t seem to happy I felt like I was bothering them most times .

Post# 214096 , Reply# 324   1/14/2013 at 15:16 (2,733 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Yes, unfortunately that's how it is...I wish Aerus was bigger here, but from Manhattan to Montauk Point they have tarnished the reputation. Its not just vacuums, its appliance stores as well...they just do not know that friendly approach. It seems as if they are un-knowledgeable and un-willing to know how to work with a customer and face questions.

Post# 214109 , Reply# 325   1/14/2013 at 16:58 (2,733 days old) by ctsooner ()        
I may be curious too on that Lux

I'm sure I could easily sell mine for the 699 I got it for as I haven't even done the warranty card yet. You guys got me hooked. Thanks a lot. Brian, this is on you, lmao.

Post# 214127 , Reply# 326   1/14/2013 at 19:59 (2,733 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
OK ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... tried out the Royal S20 Canister, as well as the Sebo D4. Not impressed with either, after trying out the Electrolux.

The Sebo in particular was disappointing. Is there ANYTHING on that machine that's not plastic? Call me old-fashioned, but for a unit approaching $1K, I want some METAL on the damn thing. I want it to feel SOLID. It just doesn't *feel* like an expensive piece of machinery ... not even as solid as my mom's old Hoover Convertible 1060. Frankly it feels like a toy. And the hoses on both are an absolute joke compared to the Lux. It's like they went out of their way to find the cheapest hoses possible. And no, they don't hold up; I noticed some cracking and splitting on the floor models -- and how old could they possibly be?

Speaking of metal, though, I tried out one of the Royal Everlasts. My my my!!! Damn I wish I was walking out of the store with one of those. Surprisingly light, but *solid*. Unfortunately I just don't have the expanses of carpeting to justify such a "raw" machine. Maybe in a house like Downton Abbey ...

Post# 214128 , Reply# 327   1/14/2013 at 20:10 (2,733 days old) by gm1982 ()        

Hey...the Aerus is the way to go, I had them all, bought, returned and sold many, and still found myself liking the Aerus the most. Something about them, perhaps the rubber hose, electric side kicks, it wins me over. The only other brand I enjoy all around so far is Miele. I have yet to come to like Riccar, I'm still sniffing it out.

Post# 214131 , Reply# 328   1/14/2013 at 20:19 (2,733 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
you are so right . I am so glad Aerus brought back a METAL machine .

I love all vacuums and Sebo has never impressed me . That canister is really huge I am not sure why they made it that LARGE ? I just can`t find anything I like about that brand of vacuum IMO .

Aerus has it going on with the new Guardian Platinum it is surely going to be a home run . I never checked out the Royal but I own its Brother the Hoover windtunnel and that machine is just OK . I used it once and it now sits in the back of my closet .

Post# 214149 , Reply# 329   1/14/2013 at 22:01 (2,733 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Kirby, Rainbow, Filter Queen, Aerus Electrolux, Tristar, Thermax are the very best IMHO! :)

Post# 214175 , Reply# 330   1/15/2013 at 07:20 (2,732 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Guess I'm used to plastic

There are all types of plastic and most of the vac's you are all talking about have very good plastic that will last a long long time as long as they are taken care of properly. Now the thing that concerns me is a cracked hose. You really saw hose cracks on demo Sebo's? Mine was nearly new out of the box, so the hose just seemed fine to me.

I would have gone Miele if they had longer cords and or hoses. That was a deal breaker. The Sebo is a large unit. I do notice that in moving it around, but it's also substantial. I wish I could have afforded the Miele or the Aerus platinum, but I wasn't able to.

Will I be selling the Sebo off? Hmmmm.....wish I had the 30 day test drive, lol. I do like it though. Maybe I should stop reading the board with all the Sebo haters, lmao.

Post# 214176 , Reply# 331   1/15/2013 at 07:52 (2,732 days old) by hype822 ()        

cracked hose on demo units? consider who uses the demo machines, and what, if any abuse the machines take on a daily basis. heck, i have been to a riccar dealer, and on 2 of his tandem air machines, they had no bag doors on them. and if i am not mistaken, i think that the sebo canister wands are metal, but with plastic on the outside.

Post# 214177 , Reply# 332   1/15/2013 at 08:00 (2,732 days old) by GM1982 ()        

unless you have a good reason to sell it, because you do not like it for some reason....then keep your Sebo. Its a great vacuum, not a piece of crap by any means. There are some people on this board that "bash" and "hate" other brands because they need to display superiority and establish brand loyalty within themselves. I like Aerus, however, until the Platinum came out, I can say Miele and Sebo offer many more convenient features, better filtration and a quiet motor compared to any Aerus! Its yet to be seen how well the Platinum will do. Miele and Sebo sell extremely well out there, almost five times as many Miele's are sold to Aerus, I am guessing. I find scores of positive reviews on Miele and Sebo online, barely any from Aerus customers. Aerus seems to just be entering the arena in my opinion, offering features similar to compete with Sebo, Miele, Riccar/Simplicity.

Post# 214179 , Reply# 333   1/15/2013 at 08:05 (2,732 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I have read this thread

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
and can`t find anyone saying they hate or are bashing Sebo ?

Just because someone says they do not like a certain vacuum it is not bashing or hating .

Seems like some people just like to try and start trouble on this site and it`s rater childish . If someone says they don`t like a certain brand of vacuum thats their right as an American we do have freedom of speech in this country and as
long as nothing nasty is said why are you trying to put words into other peoples mouths ?

Post# 214181 , Reply# 334   1/15/2013 at 08:09 (2,732 days old) by GM1982 ()        

my local vacuum shop has told me, and I've seen with my own eye, what comes in for most repairs: mostly the big box store brands/bagless and Kenmore, also some, yes, Electrolux- the grey model canisters (not sure of specific models) 1990's with broken swivel necks and wands that die out. So they can have issues too. I asked why you do not sell Riccar, and they said theyhad problems with them in the past, they were coming in for repair so they stopped carrying them. He went on to tell me that I sell what does not come back.........SEBO, Miele (select models), ProTeam & Royal.

Post# 214183 , Reply# 335   1/15/2013 at 08:18 (2,732 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
thats his personal opinion .

Secondly Electrolux did have problems with the swivel neck in the begining it has been worked out . The new Platinum has been in production and sold throughout Europe for a few years now all the bugs have been worked out .Plus the 15 year warranty which is more than most brands out there should be enough .

I was a Miele dealer and had many Miele`s come back for repair so I guess it just depends on what someone wants to tell you .

Unless of course that vacuum shop owner is say the God of vacuum cleaners ?

Post# 214186 , Reply# 336   1/15/2013 at 08:53 (2,732 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
About sales figures ...

nycwriter's profile picture
"Miele and Sebo sell extremely well out there, almost five times as many Miele's are sold to Aerus, I am guessing."

As I pointed out above, you're comparing apples to oranges.

If Aerus was on an equal sales ground with Miele and Sebo, who knows how their sales figures would stack up. Unfortunately, because for many people it's relatively difficult to even FIND an Aerus, how many of those people simply took the easy route and bought the best vacuum they could find *at their local retailer*?

I was almost one of them.

Post# 214187 , Reply# 337   1/15/2013 at 09:05 (2,732 days old) by hype822 ()        

i presume that some people are referring to me about what i said. i apologized for it, and am over it. if my apology is not enough, than what is good enough? shall i have my previous statement(s) removed?

Post# 214189 , Reply# 338   1/15/2013 at 09:13 (2,732 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Numerous Repairs!!

durango159's profile picture
I'm one of those consumers that in many cases prior to buying I search for consumer reviews. Some sites that I visit are Amazon, Epinions, Sears, Target, Wal-Mart and manufacturer. Some of the reviews sound completely legitimate and others are so baffling it's disgusting. The customers claim a unit is shutting off every room and not sure why. Well it's shutting off because the Thermal Protection device is working properly because you're vacuum has overheated from an actual clog obstruction in hose, clogged filter or both. But no the people just empty the dirt cup and can't understand the problem!!! Read the manual.

My neighbor is an awesome family. Such very nice people, chatty, hospitable, we talk all the time, and we've had made numerous dinner exchanges, I could or they cook and we all get together, etc. Well I shampooed their family room carpet one time and used their Simplicity Symmetry upright. Suction was great when I turned it on and it picked well but I sensed it wasn't up to the par it should be and my vacuum curiosity so I checked machine over a little. The bag was completely over stuffed and just about into the fill tube. I even tried reinstalling the bag door with it still on their and couldn't do it all with numerous tries. The bag was QUITE HEAVY too. They were not home at the time, but I'm reasonably familiar with their house and they have absolute trust, I didn't see any replacement bags anywhere. I drove to the local vacuum store and picked up new bags for them. Cleaned the filter and got my job done. I informed them of the full bag and they were astonished, had no clue, hadn't thought about it at all.

I guess my point is that there are varied levels of knowledged and yet also "lackadaisically challenged" consumers on the market. Some buy the most expensive lawn mower and can't understand why it won't work the next season. Well they didn't winterize it properly and the Ethanol ruined system, or they didn't change oil. It's the same of vacuums some unknowledged consumers are actually purchasing more expensive products but abusing them the same way they would a $60 Wolly World Eureka. I saw a very young lackadaisical almost careless to the world couple come into local vacuum dealer while I was in there buying some parts. They had a Kirby Sentria with them!! Not sure how they acquired it, perhaps bought on their own, a Craigslist find, whatever but they had a Kirby Sentria. I was stunned. It needed a belt change because of they sucked up things they shouldn't have.

My point is that with hundreds of millions of homes, and businesses having at least one if not more on premises, then more vacuums sold means more to break down. I always notice people on this forum saying that Hoovers are always in the repair shop. Well what if the most popular vacuum manufacturer in an area and for generations was Hoover, eventually those Hoovers would need something. Some people bring in repair machines for belt changes and clogs. Perhaps I'm over evaluating but I don't believe its a bad thing to see a certain company coming in for repair. Who knows how many of a certain one are in a certain area. I think it comes down to what repair is needed such as the circuit board for a Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary canister or melted electrical on Kenmore/ Panasonic hose and wands.

This is just my opinion and another a different direction of looking at repairs.

Post# 214190 , Reply# 339   1/15/2013 at 09:23 (2,732 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Very astute, Durango ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I think many people also try to make the point that since there are SO many old Hoovers and Kirbys on eBay, they must not be good machines because so many people are getting rid of them.

On the contrary.

What's the percentage of, say, pre-1983 vacuums on the second-hand market, versus POST-1983? I'd say it's significantly higher, because most of the post-1983 stuff is plastic crap that people THREW AWAY years ago. I think the very fact that machines from the '70s, '60s, '50s, and even dating back to the '20s are even still around are testimony to their superiority.

Most of the time, these old machines are for sale on eBay because they're part of an estate that's being liquidated -- not necessarily because they're being replaced.

Post# 214197 , Reply# 340   1/15/2013 at 09:52 (2,732 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Another way of evaluating products is by how long a consumer holds onto something. A $60 Eureka may be quite disposable to someone they wouldn't care about replacing it with an upgrade in a few years.

On the contrary if you purchased a Miele White Pearl from around 1996, you bought a quality vacuum with lots of features and good performance. What would you upgrade to-- something newer that's not as durable?? OR Are you going to run that Miele White Pearl until the day it dies, whether that's 10 or 25 years. Another way of looking at why Mieles aren't as much on the resale market.

A Hoover Convertible upright or Electrolux Jubilee on the other hand might be machines to trade after some years to get something more user friendly. By trading your Hoover Convertible you can find a machine with better filtration, easier attachment use, better suction for attachments, etc. By trading Hoover Elite you can upgrade to better filtration, clean air design that can handle abuse of a penny being sucked in, agitator on/off control, better attachment suction and quieter. By trading in Lux J you may get better filtration, better sealed hose, a Sidekick powered hand tool, longer hose, headlight equipped power head, agitator on/off switch and other features.

I've heard several local vacuum shops tell me in my search for refurbed canister vacuums that consumers have a higher tendency to hold onto canister vacuums until they die. They're not traded as much. Even if a canister owner decides to buy an upright they still hold onto the canister as a great back up vacuum and love them for versatility of easy stairwell cleaning, car interior cleaning, vacuuming under furniture, etc.

Post# 214201 , Reply# 341   1/15/2013 at 10:24 (2,732 days old) by ctsooner ()        
cooler head prevail, lol

I do love the Sebo as it's the best I've ever owned. I always get some buyers remorse and then reading some of the things over here it makes you question things. Yes the Sebo has a full metal wand.

Post# 214203 , Reply# 342   1/15/2013 at 10:33 (2,732 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Buyer's remorse ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Don't give in to it!

Look, all of these "upper tier" vacuums are *very* good at their primary function: removing dirt. Some are better than others ... and on the high end, you're really splitting hairs, with the main differences being fit, finish, and features.

Enjoy your vacuum. Love it. Treat it well and it will treat YOU well.

Post# 214206 , Reply# 343   1/15/2013 at 10:46 (2,732 days old) by ctsooner ()        
My house cleaner is back

After 2,5 years we can now afford to have the housecleaner back. She's awesome. From Brazil. Not sure what she uses, but she just checked out the Sebo and it using it today. I'll let you all know what she thinks.

Post# 214209 , Reply# 344   1/15/2013 at 11:12 (2,732 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Bully for you guys ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... who have housekeepers.

I tried and it's just not a good fit for me. My standards are just way too high, and I found that working my schedule around hers was more of a pain in the butt than just doing it myself.

Truth to tell, I've found that when you work a mentally taxing and stressful job, housecleaning can be wonderfully therapeutic. And humbling. The world would be a much better place if people in positions of power, 15 minutes a week, got down on their hands and knees and scrubbed their own toilets, tubs, and bathroom floors.

Post# 214218 , Reply# 345   1/15/2013 at 12:06 (2,732 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Once MS hit

I wasn't able to get around quite as good as I used to. I love to clean and do it daily, but I can't get down on the floor well to get to the deep cleaning and stuff. When I worked, it was at least 12 hour days and there wasn't time to do anything but work, workout, run the kids around and hopefully get 5 hours sleep. I have a woman who does have the highest of standards and she's not expensive. Since I clean a fair amount, she only comes twice a month. It's kind of a treat to my wife who owns her own insurance agency and isn't getting home until 9 or 10 at night and then doing another hour or two of work before bed. It works nicely for us.

Post# 214225 , Reply# 346   1/15/2013 at 12:46 (2,732 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Zen & the art of vacuum acquistion...

stricklybojack's profile picture
A circumstance of choices & trade offs that leads to, 'pick your poison' senarios...
Perfectionists with carpeting or rugs, beware, here lie dragons...
Big box plasti-vac buyers have the best machine...for them. Cheap, & or flashy, & rated in a consumer magzine for easy & comfortable decision making. When the jigs up just pony up another c note (give or take). The failure rate is like hard drives, a certain percent are duds & the negative review gets posted double time. Far more do all the customer wanted in the first place & everbody is happy until planned obselences will have them buying again just about the time they see another that catches their eye & on sale too...just the part & parcel trade off in this path of least resistance choice.

At the other end of the senario spectrum has been playing out in this thread. A Robert Persig* like search for quality & 'Quality'. Some find it in 'the best, TOL money can buy'. Again the right choice, for them...Trade offs here include time spent, money spent, dependence on shop for repairs (plati-vacs can be trashed & replaced for less than many high end vac repairs) etc...

All this is par for the course when one considers the engineers who designed the vacuum in the first place were also caught up in a labyrinth of trade offs in their design choices, so too were the directors of the companies that employ(ed) them, but their concerns were instead business related.

(sigh) Maybe why we all caught this bug, it's a beckoning puzzle waiting to be solved, again & again, and so on...

I own an armada of metal & or vintage machines waiting to be repaired & put to work or already in operation. But i just bought a nearly new, TOL Kenmore upright, in a Beautiful blue green hue, with a svelt aluminum wand that i love. Full circle from the Comercial Royal that was my first vac buy after i caught the bug. But the Kenmore machine is hard to push across the carpet (like many reviewers mentioned). I took a flier on it as an Ebay demo unit, a trade off in buying without trying, but for only $86 delivered. I also just spent about that amount in a box full of consumables for my fleet of trash picks & Craigslist finds...but using those resurrected vacs is most satisfying. Not as fun for me as the hunt to acquire them, but the most fun i'm going to have running a vacuum.

* Author, Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, see link.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK

Post# 214254 , Reply# 347   1/15/2013 at 14:30 (2,732 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Kirby, Rainbow, Thermax machines are better values because they convert into carpet/rug shampooers.

Post# 214272 , Reply# 348   1/15/2013 at 16:38 (2,732 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
well U G...

stricklybojack's profile picture
You know what you like. I have a old Filter queen with a power head that seems worhless for the rugs i have. So i'm interest in Rainbow but i have the same issue with the older models that fit my price range...shite power team. For me i don't shampoo the rug so the ability to do so is not a selling point. Like kirby & that whole mess of attachments i never want to use...once it clicked in my bain i didn't have to i warmed up to the brand & now own 3. The brands you mentioned generally don't work in a situation that calls for a light weight machine...not your concern i guess.

Post# 214310 , Reply# 349   1/15/2013 at 20:44 (2,732 days old) by xraytech ()        


There aren't too many vacuums sold today that I'd much care to use as I prefer using my 60s and 70s Hoovers.

The few modern vacuums I have tried and like have already been touched upon here, the only new vacuums I personally like in ease of use and quality are the Aerus upright and any of the Aerus canister line.
I've had an Electrolux(aerus) Epic 6500 for a few years that Ive really enjoyed using and I am by no means a canister lover.

I hope you find the right vacuum for your needs that you will be happy with.

I happened to notice also that you mentioned earlier in this thread you were considering buying a second home in Pittsburgh. Being from the rural outskirts of Pittsburgh I'd be pleased to meet you and take you around if you are ever visiting Pittsburgh or purchase a second home here.


Post# 214373 , Reply# 350   1/16/2013 at 08:19 (2,731 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Thanks xraytech ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Where exactly do you live?

Post# 214397 , Reply# 351   1/16/2013 at 11:32 (2,731 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Thank you strictlybojack ...

nycwriter's profile picture
"The brands you mentioned generally don't work in a situation that calls for a light weight machine...not your concern i guess."

KirbyUltimateG really loves his Kirbys (and Rainbows, for that matter).

So do I.

But I don't have *acres* of wide-open carpeted areas like in Downton Abbey. Fully half of my flooring is hardwood, and much of the carpeting is under furniture and in tight alcoves that are difficult to maneuver a beastly Kirby into.

Kirby = HOUSE.


Find x.

The answer I've found, after much searching, is that "x" for me is a no-fuss canister (all due respect to the Rainbow).

Post# 214399 , Reply# 352   1/16/2013 at 12:41 (2,731 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Ive said it before and ill say it again

sebo_fan's profile picture
The reason the D series is HUGE is because it has a HUGE amount of cable that SEBO fitted to it (12M) and compared to the C series canister which is a lot smaller. The dust bag is also pretty big. No other reason - which is probably why Miele would find it difficult to contain twice as much cable in such a compact body as their latest S8 - if they actually installed their canister vacuums with the same amount of cord length.

Post# 214405 , Reply# 353   1/16/2013 at 13:10 (2,731 days old) by ctsooner ()        
I'm enjoying the Sebo

My cleaner did also. She just plugs it in and can do each floor with it plugged into a central outlet. She really likes the machine and didn't find it cumbersome or heavy at all. She said it went where she pulled it. I can tell you that the bag really is huge and I had so much deep crap on the carpet that it's vacuumed up. She said it was much much quicker for her to use than her Kenmore. She just set the PN at '2' and it was fine for everything. There are always better things on the market as you go, but even the Aerus is a think skin of metal that dents and scratches easily and it shows. There isn't a perfect machine yet and never will be. I'm having fun learning though. Thanks.

Post# 214414 , Reply# 354   1/16/2013 at 13:47 (2,731 days old) by GM1982 ()        

well said.....Nothing is perfect and no vacuum is the best. Something that is sealed and does not leak air, filters well, has useful features, is quiet and durable will come close to perfect, and your Sebo is an example.

Post# 214429 , Reply# 355   1/16/2013 at 15:29 (2,731 days old) by ctsooner ()        
I'd say there are about 4 or 5

canisters that stand out that are fairly 'main steam' and not sold door to door. From what I saw, it's not even always the TOL models from companies nor is it always their newest offerings. The only think I wish my power nozzle had was an LED light that is actually angled down and not straight ahead. I felt that's one area the Moxie missed on. I like all the controls at the finger tips. I do wish the Miele 236 head was L shaped as it's just easier to move around the furniture during quick pick ups. That and a savings of over 300 was what pushed me Sebo's way in the end I think. If I could have the Miele Capricorn or S8 with 236 head, Sebo or TOL Riccar/Simplicity, I'd probably go Miele then Sebo, but after having both in the house, I'd chose Sebo for the cord and hose lengths. It's just so easy to plug and play.

Post# 214453 , Reply# 356   1/16/2013 at 19:50 (2,731 days old) by xraytech ()        


I'm located in Washington county about 30 minutes from the airport, and also about 30 minutes from the South Hills of Pittsburgh where there are some great higher end neighborhoods is Upper St. Clair, Mount Lebanon, and Bethel Park.
I'm also about 40-45 minutes from downtown Pittsburgh

I'll shoot you a private email as well.

Post# 214502 , Reply# 357   1/17/2013 at 07:39 (2,730 days old) by ctsooner ()        
So what vacuum?

NYC, where are you in your search? Will it be the Lux?

Post# 214505 , Reply# 358   1/17/2013 at 08:49 (2,730 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
ctsooner ...

nycwriter's profile picture
I'm going with the Lux.

Just looking now for the best price.

Post# 214545 , Reply# 359   1/17/2013 at 18:25 (2,730 days old) by ctsooner ()        
great choice

make sure you give Brian a call. How many Lux dealers do we have here. I bet you can get it for between 1000 and 1200. If I could have gotten it for 1000k I probably would have gone for that. It seems like a great machine.

Post# 214548 , Reply# 360   1/17/2013 at 18:58 (2,730 days old) by geoffrack8 (Connecticut)        
How funny Matt....

I was reading a few things on Miele and found this. It made me think of you and this thread. I have not had a recomendation because I believe "to each his own" but when I read this it made me laugh.



Post# 214609 , Reply# 361   1/18/2013 at 07:38 (2,729 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Geoff ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Love it!

Post# 214661 , Reply# 362   1/18/2013 at 17:01 (2,729 days old) by ctsooner ()        
So did you get the Lux

Platinum? After such a long thread, inquiring minds, lol.

Post# 214677 , Reply# 363   1/18/2013 at 19:28 (2,729 days old) by fooseofhoove (Minnesota)        

fooseofhoove's profile picture
Hello Vacuumlanders! Had to comment on this amazing thread, I've really learned quite a bit from you guys. Just love it!

Post# 214766 , Reply# 364   1/19/2013 at 08:54 (2,728 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
ctsooner ...

nycwriter's profile picture
Still looking for a good price.

Post# 214768 , Reply# 365   1/19/2013 at 09:17 (2,728 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
I could have purchased another one from Aerus in Savana Ga . It was going to be $1000.00 shipped free with free bags and no tax because it`s coming from out of state .

Aerus Electrolux
7302 Abercorn St.
Savannah, Georgia 31406

Khal was the persons name

Post# 214809 , Reply# 366   1/19/2013 at 13:29 (2,728 days old) by Smith (North Carolina)        

I am an Aerus dealer as well. If there is anything I can help you with feel free to shoot me an email.

Good choice, going with the Platinum. It really is an AWESOME machine!

Post# 214883 , Reply# 367   1/19/2013 at 22:20 (2,728 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Never mind a good price....just go with a Miele S8 canister with the flashlight on the handle! The telescopic tube takes up less room in the closet than the Aerus Platinum's two-part tubes.....and the attachments store under the cover of the canister. You can always attach an extension cord to the vac to make up for the shorter operating radius. And you'll get a much quieter power nozzle that deep cleans carpets better!

Post# 215079 , Reply# 368   1/21/2013 at 11:36 (2,726 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Sorry, Eurekaprince ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... I've already ruled out the Miele in favor of the Lux.

Post# 215085 , Reply# 369   1/21/2013 at 11:43 (2,726 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Yay! You've finally decided! I'm actually excited for you Matt....

Just curious - is it completely made in the USA? If yes, that's a big plus going for much needed work to your citizens.....

We want pics and YouTube clips! :-)
We want pics and YouTube clips! :-)
We want pics and YouTube clips! :-)
We want pics and YouTube clips! :-)

:-D EP Brian

Post# 215091 , Reply# 370   1/21/2013 at 11:58 (2,726 days old) by ctsooner ()        

GREAT choice. I was just answering an email from someone on this thread and he asked if price was no object, which one would I want. If I could sell my D4 for 750 with the box of bags etc, I think I'd pick up the Lux if I could get it for 1k with no shipping or tax. I only played with it for a bit but I really really liked that vacuum and I'm not a vacuum guy like you guys are. LOL.

Post# 215138 , Reply# 371   1/21/2013 at 15:25 (2,726 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Yes, eurekaprince ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... I'm just now looking for the best price. Some new friends on this board have reached out to me, so I'm considering offers.

I've never posted a YouTube video. Don't really know how to do that. Here's the irony: I WORK IN TELEVISION. I've produced network broadcasts (not produced *for* network broadcasts, but actually produced them as an EP), but I honestly am so inside the industry that I can't fathom "producing" any video product without the help of an ENG crew including a shooter, audio tech, and videotape editor (not to mention the "dot-com" techie to actually upload it to YouTube).

Post# 215187 , Reply# 372   1/21/2013 at 19:22 (2,726 days old) by ctsooner ()        

That's perfect. I used to recruit accounting and financial execs (headhunter) and most were late on their own taxes and had others do it for them, lol. Let me know if you get one for 1k with bags and free shipping. I could be really tempted at that price and would probably put my D4 on the market at that point, lol.

Post# 215193 , Reply# 373   1/21/2013 at 19:43 (2,726 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

7 P style bags come with the platinum. Even having a German shepherd that is enough to last me almost 6 months and I vacuum almost daily including all the furniture baseboards and everything else in the house. I don't believe in dust rags or swifters, so I vac everything

Post# 215198 , Reply# 374   1/21/2013 at 20:01 (2,726 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
Lux PLatinum Bags

Luxman is correct,

You can stuff a ton of dirt in the style-P bag and they will almost seem like a brick when its time to change them. I too have a dog and think most will use about 6-12 bags a year with this vacuum. It is nice that the Lux bags, unlike cloth bags, are cheap and of good quality.


Post# 215316 , Reply# 375   1/22/2013 at 13:29 (2,725 days old) by ctsooner ()        
now you all have me rethinking

I love the D4 but if I could have gotten the Lux for 1k, I would have run after it. If I could sell the D4, I'd probably make that switch based on everything, lol. Headed out to vac place here in Venice FL to get a pre filter for my parent's upright Panasonic that someon forgot to put a bag in during the last change ;)....I'm down here to put their house on the market and get them moved into an assisted living home, lol. Have house cleaner coming tomorrow (and she's excited to become a Juice Plus rep with me). It never ends, lol.

Post# 215317 , Reply# 376   1/22/2013 at 13:32 (2,725 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
ctsooner ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... coulda woulda shoulda.

Just love your D4. It's a great vacuum.

Post# 215622 , Reply# 377   1/24/2013 at 13:24 (2,723 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@NYCWriter, have you got your Lux yet? Curious to see you take after using it in your own home and not in the showroom.

Post# 215693 , Reply# 378   1/24/2013 at 19:55 (2,723 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Haven't ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... made the leap yet!

Post# 215710 , Reply# 379   1/24/2013 at 22:37 (2,723 days old) by ctsooner ()        

you are right. Brian talked sense into me yesterday after I saw nearly every vac in this thread (the higher end ones). Even the store owner had the D4. He doesn't have it in the store to sell unless it's asked for since the Miele or Riccar sell over it. marketing or US made over the Sebo, lol.

Does anyone know how much the Tri stars are? They look good, but I noticed are less powerful than the Sebo even.

When will you purchase your Lux?

Post# 215767 , Reply# 380   1/25/2013 at 09:42 (2,722 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
ctsooner ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... I've been backed up at work these past several days. I'll be contacting those guys who "reached out" to me (I actually hate that buzzterm!) for better deals than the crazy price quoted to me at my local Manhattan dealership.

Post# 215773 , Reply# 381   1/25/2013 at 10:30 (2,722 days old) by ctsooner ()        
makes sense

I hated my Aerus experience to be honest. The guy quoted me list and was a jack azz about it. A woman then came in to pay for her's and she was paying only 1300. I asked if I could get it at the same cost and probably would hvae done it and dealt with my wife later, lol. He was rude and said I had to go to a home show to get that special show price. The woman was in shock as was I. It was his tone etc... I walked out never to return and the woman was right behind me. She said she could go to the next town over and get her's there for the same price. I was just so turned off and I felt if I wanted to buy one, I'd just ask Brian or one of you guys. I didn't fully understand that some of you are Aerus dealers and could have helped me out. Sorry bout that.

Post# 215935 , Reply# 382   1/26/2013 at 05:38 (2,721 days old) by thermokid (Casper, Wyoming)        
I'm ready

to buy my Lux Gaurdian Platinum now. I will be contacting Brian the first of the week.I hate buying something so far away from home(what if something goes wrong with it) oh thats right I still have my trusty old 53 year old Kirby as backup. Anyway I thought just for kicks I would call the crappy Aerus dealer in Billings, Montana to see if they have one.(But I am still buying mine from Brian) The Billings Aerus dealer told me the lowest price I could get one from them is $2,600 dollars. I kindly told them no but hell no was I going to pay that price when my new Rainbow wasn't half that much. They said well if I wanted one then that was the price.And of course I had to open my big mouth and tell them off. Told them last year I bought a brand new Gaurdian upright from them and they didn't even have the courtesy of delivering it to me or even calling me even once to see how I liked the vacuum or did I need bags etc. I told them before I hung up the phone I would not be buying any more machines from them. Well they have been blowing up my answering machine every day since then with apologies and kissing you know what to get me to buy from them again. And when they call I just look at the answering machine machine and laugh... Okay I am getting down off of my soap box now so everybody else can have a turn.. LOL Dan

Post# 215947 , Reply# 383   1/26/2013 at 07:04 (2,721 days old) by GM1982 ()        

That's unfortunately the wonderful experience you get from Aerus... I have written in another post on this forum under MY NEW AERUS VACCUM, you can read my posts about Aerus there. I have the Upright with separate tools and I like it, some flaws, but very bad experience in the purchase process. Its hit or miss with these Aerus dealers... while I like Aerus, I am just on the fence as to whether to go to another brand with better features and customer service. Who really wants to play games to get a darn vacuum, call up out of state Aerus dealers just to get the thing at a fair price. I am wondering the treatment I will get when I walk back into my Aerus dealer next Monday looking at the Platinum. If I really like the Platinum I will prob trade my upright in on the spot for it- but only if they give me a good deal since I am returning two years later....If not I will keep my upright and tell them to take a hike.

Post# 215950 , Reply# 384   1/26/2013 at 07:16 (2,721 days old) by thermokid (Casper, Wyoming)        
You tell them

we as customers aren 't going to take this crap from them.(And the customer is always supposed to be right,) Well most of the time anyways.. I just wanted to get one for my collection(God only knows I don't need any more) I have my old Aerus Gaurdian canister, and I really like it, even though it is plastic. I have always had really good machines from Electrolux(OLD) I still have my mom's old Turquoise G and it runs as good as the day we bought it in 1961.So I really hope this new Gaurdian Platinum is going to be a good one. I'll let you know how I like it when I get one... Dan

Post# 215968 , Reply# 385   1/26/2013 at 09:44 (2,721 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
if you buy it from Brian it will get registered and it has a 15 year warranty .

You can have it serviced anywhere at any Aerus Dealer .


Post# 216107 , Reply# 386   1/27/2013 at 04:02 (2,720 days old) by thermokid (Casper, Wyoming)        
I ordered mine

today. I can't hardly wait to get it. I told the other vacs, ok guys move over there is another vacuum coming to live with us... LOL Dan

Post# 216175 , Reply# 387   1/27/2013 at 12:50 (2,720 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
your gonna love it , Aerus`s best machine made today !


Post# 216227 , Reply# 388   1/27/2013 at 15:56 (2,720 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Emptied first bag tody

The bag was over half full. Just shows how much the Oreck left behind, lol. The filters are as clean as day one and I never lost any suction at all. Really loving it. Wish the demo I got was white though. Black shows scratches. White, not so much. It cleaned up nicely though and the wand is great as it's easy to store.

Post# 216334 , Reply# 389   1/27/2013 at 20:32 (2,720 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@ctsooner, was there a reason for bag replacement since you were only about half full? How long have you had your sebo? Seems like that bag filled up rather quickly.

Post# 216468 , Reply# 390   1/28/2013 at 15:41 (2,719 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Brian told me that I should

change it. It was filled with black dirt. Not much in the way of the grey fuzz, but tons of heavy dirt. It shows how badly Oreck did. I dont' use the upstairs often and tha'ts the carpeted area. I wasn't losing any suction at all either and that was a good thing. The other filters are as white as when they were installed. I ran my fingers over them to see how much dust was on them and there was none. Also, there is no real dust on the black case and I thought there would be a ton since it exhausts around the machine.

I"m very very pleased so far.

Post# 217954 , Reply# 391   2/7/2013 at 00:51 (2,710 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

How about a TriStar CS canister? Super powerful, made of die-cast magnesium, MiniStar electric mini PN, multi-stage filtration, "bag-in-a-bag" cyclonic action. And it's a truly sealed vacuum & no unfiltered air escapes the TriStar vacuum.

I have a Compact C6, TriStar CXL, DXL, 2 EXLs & a brand new CS. One of my EXLs has the Ametek high-performance #115923 two-stage motor.

I paid only $800.00 for the new 2013 TriStar CS, including MiniStar; & have nothing but praises about this vacuum. They get used daily; I give each one its turn so I don't wear out one too much so soon. Sometimes I use more than one vacuum for different vacing jobs, for example I use the EXL for tile floors & carpet, the CXL with Wessel Werk HEB160 PN for car interiors, the new CS with MiniStar for upholstery.

It's hard to stop a TriStar!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO floor-a-matic's LINK

This post was last edited 02/07/2013 at 01:15
Post# 217956 , Reply# 392   2/7/2013 at 01:05 (2,710 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

MiniStar model M101 mini PN for TriStar A101, EXL, MG1, MG2, MG3 & CS Series canister vacuums. Great for vacing dirt & pet hair from upholstery, stairs & automobile interiors. More effective than a turbo (air powered) brush.

This post was last edited 02/07/2013 at 01:21
Post# 217987 , Reply# 393   2/7/2013 at 09:08 (2,709 days old) by ctsooner ()        
I've never heard anything bad about the Tri Star

vacuums. I know they are owned by Aerus and some parts are made in the same plant in VA as the Lux, but I thought the cost for new TOL ones were in the 2k range. I can't find anyone selling them online (with the price posted).

Post# 217993 , Reply# 394   2/7/2013 at 10:08 (2,709 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I own a Tri Star

kirbyloverdan's profile picture

MG3 and the last CXL the gripe I have with the MG3 is you must turn vacuum over or stand on end to wrap the cord .


For that much money a cord winder should be on that machine . I also own a Ghiblli Vortech force and a Miracle Mate both similar to Tri Star and both have cord winders .

Post# 217995 , Reply# 395   2/7/2013 at 10:16 (2,709 days old) by ctsooner ()        
funny as I never thought about a cord winder

until I hit this board. I had to have one and it has to be heavy duty in order to not break. It's funny how important a long cord and hose became to me. I was all set to negotiate to by the newest (now discontinued) Capricorn as my wife and I really like the color. I loved all that it offered, but I couldn't get around the shorter cord and hose. I bet Miele did research and found that most who buy don't know the difference in length and it's less costly and allows them to make a bit smaller canister to fit the winder. It also makes it less heavy. I bet that was their trade off.

Post# 217997 , Reply# 396   2/7/2013 at 10:32 (2,709 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@ctsooner, you are probably right. Miele made a trade off. Most of their european / asian market, I assume has homes that are smaller than most american size homes. We all know we like everything big... our homes, cars, trucks etc. Whereas overseas everything is about being compact. So the tradeoff was that the american market will simply move the vacuum and plug it in a new spot.

As for me I am a generally systematic cleaner so the cord doesn't bother me (probably also since my home is about 1950 sq feet), neither does the hose length. I have a 6-24 ft custom hose/wand setup for above the floor cleaning. As for the cord, I had a vacuum with a pretty long cord in college and all it did was get wrapped around things (table, chairs etc) as I tried to vacuum from room to room. I guess I am more aware of the cord length now and luckily I have a ton of outlets in my house... So for my first floor I have to use 2 plugs locations for the whole first floor and on the 2nd floor I would use 2 as well.

Not too bad IMO. Now if I had to unplug every room and move the vacuum then I probably have an above average size (2100 sq ft house or larger... maybe a spread out ranch style layout) home. Then it will be time to consider a house keeper. :)

Post# 218010 , Reply# 397   2/7/2013 at 11:49 (2,709 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Size of the home does play a part in which kind of vacuum to get... For a very large home, even if someone did buy a Miele with a short power cord, you can always attach a 50 or 75 foot cord and plug it in once perhaps. I do not think it matters so much to have a long cord. Mostly uprights seem to come with long cords. With a 30 or 40 foot cord on a canister, you might still need to change outlets.

Post# 218022 , Reply# 398   2/7/2013 at 13:40 (2,709 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

That's why I always use the EXL & CS TriStar more than any other vacuum I currently own; those MG style TriStars are more convenient to use. Another thing I like about the new style machine is I can connect the MiniStar onto the wand, so I can vacuum the car more comfortably.Cool


The EXL TriStar is my "go-to" or "get-go" vacuum; it stays plugged in just in case I need to catch houseflies or quick vacing.Cool


When the hose is removed from a MG style TriStar, a small "door" closes so dirt doesn't spill out of the vac or flies can't get out.  Usually, I always leave the hose connected to the vacuum.


Here's my EXL ready for vacing stairs & car interiors.Cool

This post was last edited 02/07/2013 at 19:04
Post# 218308 , Reply# 399   2/9/2013 at 10:58 (2,707 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Sorry but a long cord extension just isn't practical. Ive tried it. Not in a home with pets or children, or you could just tag the cord up along skirting boards for any vacuum cleaner in the future with a short cord to feed of, of. But I've never seen a home do that or let alone know of anyone who does it. Not only is it dangerous to leave cords lying around, unless you're in a home of your own and you're on your OWN to take advantage of a longer extension cord, I'd find the whole idea untidy. Better to have a machine which has a lot of cord if the product itself has one.

Miele know what they are doing - much to my annoyance. Their smallest cylinder S2 has a 5.5 metre length cord, the S6 features 6 metres and the S8 probably has 6 to 7 metres if you're lucky. They kept the long cord on the Quickstep/Alternative stick vac and their S7 uprights for owners needing more length. But then the UK don't have the Quickstep stick vac anymore so as a Miele buyer if you require a vacuum with a long cord, it has to be the S7 uprights. That's why I bought the SEBO D2 cylinder. I like the lighter weight of a hose, tubes and floor head to get around my large home; not constantly unplugging and plugging when cleaning other parts of the house. The 12 metre cable, large dust bag and longer hose ticks all the boxes. There is a Bosch cylinder vac (the BSGL5000) which has 10 metres of cable on offer but I had that machine before the SEBO and it was poorly made.

Before I bought the Bosch, I bought Miele's extension hose attachment. It kind of works but then doesn't when it keeps wanting to retract back into its holder. It does extend reach but not by very much and it means more weight added to the hose and the back of the handle in normal use.

I don't know about the U.S but in the U.K, when the first S2000 series cylinder/canisters appeared, the extension attachment was a standard accessory that came with it. Miele have now stopped this and released the usual base level S2's without telescopic height adjustable tubes and made to put up with the very short cord on offer.

Post# 218375 , Reply# 400   2/9/2013 at 19:05 (2,707 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Honestly ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... I never saw why it is such a big deal to unplug and re-plug. It takes, like, 2 seconds. And I grew up in a large house where frequent plug-changes were the norm. Thought nothing of it.

Post# 218382 , Reply# 401   2/9/2013 at 20:54 (2,707 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Whichever vacuum cleaner you choose, I recommend at least a 20-35 foot power cord.

Post# 220991 , Reply# 402   2/27/2013 at 12:39 (2,689 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

NYCWriter, Did you get your Aerus Electrolux vacuum yet? How is your Fantom Thunder holding up? My late grandparents had a Electrolux Model G in the 1960s. They passed it on to my parents in the 1970s. It died in the 1980s.

Post# 221019 , Reply# 403   2/27/2013 at 15:00 (2,689 days old) by cc (louisiana)