Thread Number: 19089
Hoover Central Vac Motor BEWARE
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Post# 210740   12/21/2012 at 11:02 (2,665 days old) by vacuumfreak (Windsor, Ontario, Canada)        

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As some of you may already know, I work at a vacuum shop here in Windsor, and I would just like to inform everyone, incase you considered looking at getting a Hoover Central Vac or already have one thats almost brand new, about their motors. One came in a couple weeks ago, and I managed to snap a picture of the burned out motor that lasted less than a year in one of the machines. The Hoover motor is on the right, and a new Cyclovac/CanaVac motor is on the left. I'm unaware of the model number of the machine that these motors are in, but you can definitely tell where the quality is between the two motors. I believe the motor was from a Costco Hoover central vac. The small motor is now on display in the showroom of the store next to the brand new Cyclovacs and CanaVacs, where we can show the customer just how poor some of the leading brand name vacuum manufacturers/companies, are making their central vacs.

Just thought Id share a picture of some of the poor quality that it around now. Let me know what you think about them.

Daniel :-)

PS: That is not a dent on the fan housing on the CanaVac/CycloVac motor, it is just a dirt mark from my hand, from picking it up. I just realized it was there.





Post# 210743 , Reply# 1   12/21/2012 at 11:51 (2,665 days old) by s31463221 (Frenchburg, KY)        
Daniel

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That is beyond pathetic! I can't really tell in the photo you've taken, but if I had to take a wild guess, I would think that "Hoover" motor is a single stage Ametek Lamb motor or equivalent. It's hard to imagine anyone thinking that such a small motor in a central vac would ever hold up to that kind of useage! That just goes to show you how companies are taking the cheap way out of making their products now! Build it as cheaply as possible and sell it for as much money as you can possibly get out of it.

Thanks for posting this, I had seriously been toying with the idea of putting a central vac in the house, but if I do, I will be looking out for these cheaply made machines!


Post# 210754 , Reply# 2   12/21/2012 at 13:58 (2,665 days old) by vacuumfreak (Windsor, Ontario, Canada)        

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I believe you are correct. It is an ametek motor, and I am pretty sure it is a single stage. That is right too about how cheap they make them and how much they ask for them. This system new is $499 Costco special.. With a one year warranty. There is no cut open diagram to show you the motor in it, and everyone that shops central vacs shops price not quality; at least the average consumer anyways. This also goes for the Mieles that Costco sells as well. When you buy a new Miele from costco, you aren't getting the true Miele German quality. Instead, you are getting a chinese made machine with the Miele name on it. These cleaners also do not last that long since they are not the true quality that is tagged to the name, and you are better off to deal directly through Miele so that you know what you are getting. Also, central vacs are great, but make sure you find out as much information possible that you can get about the machine you are going to buy, and if you have the money, go for the best one you can get. Cyclovac'c and CanaVac's are great, and also the MD (Modern Day) units are really good as well. I wouldn't recommend any chinese made machine, only because the quality is not there.. Especially the new NuTones. With so little ventilation, and how hot the new motors run, they will not last very long either. This is the VX series that I am talking about. If you have the money to put in a central vac, and you like them, it is well worth it. They are very quiet, and very convenient in my opinion, especially when you have quite an area to clean.

If you need any help with recommendations, let me know, as I will gladly help you out to the best of my ability. Just being in the vacuum business for the past couple months, I have learned a lot, and you truly don't know how bad some of the quality is of the low end machines.. but thats another story.

Glad I could help,
Daniel :-)


Post# 210782 , Reply# 3   12/21/2012 at 18:32 (2,665 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

But is the one on the left not a "by-pass" motor as well? The type used in wet & dry cleaners. Is there a need for that type of motor and as reason why a none-by-pass motor will suffice?

Post# 210809 , Reply# 4   12/21/2012 at 23:34 (2,665 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
In a word:

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YIKES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Post# 210817 , Reply# 5   12/22/2012 at 01:52 (2,665 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Yes,the Cana Vac/Cycla Vac motor is full bypass-best design.Note the seperate fan grille on the top of the motor-the fan underneath blows air over the motor.So this motor could possibly be used in a Wet/Dry vacuum,and it could operate with blocked suction airflow without overheating.The best quality canister/central units use such a motor.Rainbow,Water Matic are other examples of vacuums that have full bypass motors.The radial fan discharge is another sign of full bypass.Allows you to use the discharge air more efficiently as a blower,or for extra filtration-such as a HEPA exhaust filter.And the exhaust filter acts as a muffler-making the vacuum system run quietly.

Post# 210835 , Reply# 6   12/22/2012 at 08:15 (2,665 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Question

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Was it just the quality of the motor or was it because it was a flow thru? I've had my eye on an Astrovac which uses a flow thru the low noise level and high airwatt ratings are appealing to me, but i've been wondering if a flow thru would be prone to issues in a central?

Post# 210842 , Reply# 7   12/22/2012 at 09:44 (2,664 days old) by vacuumfreak (Windsor, Ontario, Canada)        

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The quality of it was bad. Who would put a one stage tiny motor in a CENTRAL VAC?? The motor is almost the same size as the one stage motor that is in the Tristar MG1's! The Flow-thru motors are great when needed for quietness, although I find that they don't give you the full punch that you can get from a tangential bypass central vac motor. I honestly love the all metal 7.2" 2 stage lamb motors, #115334, that were in old NuTones, etc. They give you great suction, although they do give off some sound. Again, flow thru motors are great for their low sound level, it just depends on how big the area is you have to clean. I don't think they will last as long as a bigger bypass motor would though. Make sure you research as much as you can when you are considering a unit, and find out the motor thats in it and go online and search it up and see what you can find.

Daniel :-)


Post# 211131 , Reply# 8   12/25/2012 at 09:52 (2,661 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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I am Really shocked at the size of the hoover but equally shocked at the size of the motor that comes from the canavac central vac. That motor is a triple stage tangential motor, It is widely used in portable carpet cleaning machines. Triple stage meaning its has 3 suction fans. and tangential meaning it has side discharge, you can if you want massive lift hook up another one to suck through the exhaust of the first one. What shocks me is that a central vacuum would use just one of those motors, most central vacuums here in SA use two of the big motors like the one pictured below or a actual vacuum pump, I have never seen a central vacuum that uses such a small motor ( yet alone the tiny one found in the Hoover )

Post# 211142 , Reply# 9   12/25/2012 at 10:27 (2,661 days old) by vacuumfreak (Windsor, Ontario, Canada)        

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Usually in North America, central vacs only have the one motor, unless you have a really big machine. Some of them pack quite a punch to them too. My NuTone CV450, which is the new central vac hooked up to the house, has 2 two stage motors in it, setup like you described, where one sucks the exhaust of the other and gives it a dramatic increase in pull. It is pretty powerful I must say. Its a big machine too compared to my CV353 which has one Lamb 116119 motor in it (3-stage fan cooled all metal 7.2" motor). What brands are available in your area? Its just interesting to hear about the differences in units from different locations. Shocking how small the hoover motor is, isn't it!

Daniel :-)


Post# 211144 , Reply# 10   12/25/2012 at 11:04 (2,661 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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Daniel

Yes it is shocking but that said I just saw a prototype motor that is the size of my hand but will outperform most 3 stage vacuums.

We get a few here, cfm, Nilfiskalto, vacu man, centra vac, Electrolux Beam, hygenevac, to name a few, all that I have worked on have had twin motor design with either two 3stage motors or two of the bigger ones, My central vac uses a vacuum pump but I hardly use it as I prefer a vacuum in hand


Post# 211145 , Reply# 11   12/25/2012 at 11:33 (2,661 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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These are the vacuum pumps that get used in larger houses over here.

Post# 211147 , Reply# 12   12/25/2012 at 11:35 (2,661 days old) by vacuumfreak (Windsor, Ontario, Canada)        

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WOW! Thats one big motor/pump! I wonder if that would take the paint off the walls! LOL

Daniel :-)


Post# 211181 , Reply# 13   12/26/2012 at 00:31 (2,661 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

The device shown in the picture is a ring blower or compressor.It is a high pressure blower for cooling,inflating,or pneumatic conveyer systems-like at the drive in bank window.One of our transmitters uses two of these ring blowers for cooling the large tube sockets-cools the filament connections on the tube socket.It is a simple device in construction-a ringlike "fan" in the fancase of the unit-one port is air intake-usually from a low pressure blower or fan-the other is the high pressure outlet.The ring blowers in our German made AEG 500Kw SW transmitter run on 3 ph 380V and are rated at 2.3 Kw.When these go bad-bearings-makes a really LOUD noise!

Post# 211183 , Reply# 14   12/26/2012 at 02:27 (2,661 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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The one I have on my central system is 1.8kw 220v, although I have seen them go to the size you mention, They are awesome and make the coolest sound when they are on, almost like a Subaru flat four engine, My one is not very noisy , no nosier than a quiet vacuum but the one i service a week ago sounded like a rocket. What I like about them is the fact that they have such huge airflow and lift, with central vacuums normally you loose so much airflow due to the friction loss in the internal piping in the walls, This thing generates 450cfm at the pump which means at my furthest socket from the unit I am still getting 180cfm

Post# 211191 , Reply# 15   12/26/2012 at 06:24 (2,661 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I don't know what the CFM is of the Seimens ring blowers in the transmitter-we had to replace one not to long ago.It needed new bearings-our rigging guy replaced them.In the transmitter-the ring blowers can be heard-just a blower sound.They are actually pretty quiet when the bearings are good.There are other blowers in the transmitter making noise.backs of the cabinets.The ring blowers are mounted in the cabinets under the PA and modulator tube sockets.Hoses go from the blower to the sockets-an intake hose on the ring blower goes to the low pressure cabinet blower.The cabinet blower has a pancake style 3ph 380V motor-can't remember the wattage rating-can look if needed.The LP blower looks much like a HVAC blower.

Post# 359128 , Reply# 16   9/11/2016 at 14:08 (1,305 days old) by vaxrock (mesa az)        

well those have some great suction but its not like two motor central vac

Post# 359153 , Reply# 17   9/12/2016 at 01:50 (1,305 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I haven't tried the "suction" of the ring blower compressors-just as a blower like what I mentioned in one of our transmitters.The one we replaced is still holding up.these run all of the time-in fact if the blower does quit-the transmitter will shut down.There is a pressure switch interlock on these blowers.If the blowers stop-the PA or modulator tube loses cooling and would fail FAST!!!These units can have motors up to 15Hp-the ones we have a much smaller.These could be used as vacuum motors-and are-but the air going to the ring blower has to be well filtered-otherwise the fan would be clogged FAST-if it ran off balance the bearings would fail quickly.And a worry if the fine dust got into the motor bearings.

Post# 359158 , Reply# 18   9/12/2016 at 06:29 (1,305 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
Yes, the top motor is

a flow through design motor, it also looks like a single stage motor. They do not last as many hours.
Cana-Vac explains the the low end motor they use in their least expensive power unit has a plastic exhaust horn, and is the less durable motor. From their next best model up, the horns are of metal, and this denotes longer durability and operating hours.
I suspect all are Lamb Ametek motors.





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