Thread Number: 18003
Miracle Mate motor question
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Post# 196631   8/21/2012 at 22:32 (2,781 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        

So I recently got a Miracle Mate Platinum for a reasonable price. The power unit and power nozzle turned on and ran just fine. However, I was checking out the exhaust port in the back with it on and noticed some sparking coming from the brushes. I took a peak inside and this is what the communicator looked like. The armature doesn't have any play in it and it spins freely. Like I said earlier, the motor seems to run fine, but I don't want to cause any damage. Any ideas on what the problem is and what I can do to fix it?

Thanks
Cameron





Post# 196647 , Reply# 1   8/22/2012 at 03:14 (2,781 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
From the picture it looks like the top carbon brush is non-existent, is that so ? It could just be the flash.

If I were you I'd run a commutator stick over that commutator to get rid of some of that blackness, though I doubt it is actually causing any problems in itself.

Oh no, I'm stuck with "hit me with your rhythm stick" in my head now...


Post# 196750 , Reply# 2   8/22/2012 at 16:05 (2,781 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
Brushes

Well the brushes have plenty of life left in them and seem to be normal. There is a spot on the end, but it is just a discoloration, not a chip.

Post# 196752 , Reply# 3   8/22/2012 at 16:11 (2,781 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
End of Brush

The end appears to be rounded and making full contact with the commutator. I will get a commutator stick and clean the black off, but does anybody have any clue how or why the commutator turned black in the first place. If there is an underlying problem, I'd like to try and fix it now so I don't damage the motor.

Thanks for your help
Cameron


Post# 196755 , Reply# 4   8/22/2012 at 16:33 (2,781 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

What color are the sparks and how large are they?  Are you smelling anything that seems abnormal?  It's normal to see some small sparks (usually blue).  But if it looks like a fire works display, then you have a problem. 


Post# 196758 , Reply# 5   8/22/2012 at 16:46 (2,781 days old) by kirbykid (Horseheads,New York 14845)        

maybe you could video tape the motor while it is on. and then look where the sparks come from. but you shouldent look at the motor directly because that could cause blindness

Post# 196773 , Reply# 6   8/22/2012 at 19:57 (2,781 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
Brushes

Well after I put the brushes back on it seems that some of the sparking has gone away. I don't know if this photo will do any good, but it might give a sense of what it looks like. Even if this is a normal amount of sparking, should I be concerned about the black build up on the commutator?

Post# 196778 , Reply# 7   8/22/2012 at 20:36 (2,781 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)        

piano_god's profile picture

The photos of the Domel motor in your Platinum all appear to be completely normal. The black (carbon) build-up on the commutator is normal, as well.

 

There's no need for any intervention.


Post# 196791 , Reply# 8   8/22/2012 at 21:09 (2,781 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

Are Domel motors German made? 


Post# 196793 , Reply# 9   8/22/2012 at 21:20 (2,781 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
Reassembled

Thanks everybody for your input! Here is the system put back together. Now if the bags would just hurry up and get here!

Post# 196801 , Reply# 10   8/22/2012 at 22:18 (2,780 days old) by kirbykid63 (Wilmington Delaware)        
Looks like normal

Some times a some carbon dirt will make the carbon spring hang up causing a small gap to occur causing arcing. that you removed to carbon you most likely freed it up shipping also will cause a carbon to get stuck."The miracle mate is a great machine have fun with it.

Post# 196804 , Reply# 11   8/22/2012 at 23:18 (2,780 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)        

piano_god's profile picture

Domel is based in Železniki, Slovenia. Motors are manufactured in Slovenia, as well as China.


Post# 197737 , Reply# 12   8/28/2012 at 11:57 (2,775 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
"but you shouldent look at the motor directly because that could cause blindness" Unless you get a spark right in your eye, then it won't.

Glasses would be a good precaution.


Post# 197824 , Reply# 13   8/28/2012 at 18:31 (2,775 days old) by Sanifan ()        

When did Miracle Mate start with Dommel motors? I thought all these Tri-Star type vacuum cleaners used Ameteks.

I had the Miracle Mate Platinum for a while. I never used it, and it smelled strongly of dog. I liked the big, tough, blocky body a lot. Very futuristic. Sort of like how the Tri-Star CXL is retro, but in the opposite direction. I sold it when I moved.

I never thought the Lindhaus PN matched the looks of the canister. The current Sebo PN is a closer match looks-wise. Will the new Sebo powerheads as seen on the revamped Versamatic and Versamatic Plus make it's way onto a canister wand?

If so, I'd be reticent to buy a new Miracle Mate with the older Sebo PN unless I got a really good price on it, or unless the older PN were better than the newer one in some way (not that I would ever pay the asking price for a new Miracle Mate).

Have fun with yours. It's a cool vacuum!


Post# 199213 , Reply# 14   9/4/2012 at 22:25 (2,767 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
Finally!

So after the first set of bags I ordered got lost in the mail, I called Miracle Mate and had them send me out a new set. Fortunately, the customer service rep was very friendly. I've had the Miracle Mate for almost a month and hadn't got to use it yet. Now that I've used whole system, all I can say is wow! This thing really sucks! (in a good way) After reading some less than good reviews of the Lindhaus power nozzle, I used it on some other machines,(an AirWay, Silver King, and a Rainbow) while I was waiting for the Miracle Mate bags and I thought it was okay. Interesting, I found of those three, it worked the best on the Rainbow. However, when I used it on the actual Miracle Mate, it became hard to push with all of that suction from the MM unit. It also seemed to groom the nap better. I still think it was a curious choice of Lindhaus to only put a single turn of brushes on this power nozzle, especially in light of the build quality and engineering of everything else. I guess it may redeem itself after all. So far, my only complaints about the system is it's shortish cord and lack of quick disconnect.

Post# 287105 , Reply# 15   7/3/2014 at 17:03 (2,101 days old) by fallonsewnvac (Nevada)        
How in the world did you get it open???

I have had a couple come into my shop and couldn't figure for the life of me how to get that thing apart! After calling the *only* authorized shop in my state I find out you "need a special tool." Well, his shop doesn't seem to have it. What the heck? I now have another I would like to look at but don't want to open something I can't put back together :/

Post# 287124 , Reply# 16   7/3/2014 at 18:46 (2,101 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        
Apropos of nothing....

Hi Zach (fallonvacnsew),

 

Nice to see a neighbor. Been in your shop for needles for my sewing machines, great place.

 

Tom


Post# 287125 , Reply# 17   7/3/2014 at 18:51 (2,101 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Sanifan

kirbylux77's profile picture
Miracle Mate never used Domel motors in their vacuums. Their first model used GS Electric double stage motors, then when GS Electric was bought by Ametek they switched to Ametek. I would bet a vac shop put the Domel motor in, claiming to the customer the motor was dead, & scammed them for the cost of a new motor when it wasn't needed or necessary. At most, those Ametek & GS Electric motors just need a new set of carbon brushes every 10 to 15 years, & can be expected to have a life expectancy of 20 to 30 years. I have even heard of some motors finally dying at 40 years old in vacuums that were used regularly.

Fallonsewnvac- Just wondering, when did you notice a change in the screws used to hold the vacuum housing together?? My Miracle Mate Mark 1 uses ordinary slotted screws, so was surprised to see your post saying you have had difficulty getting them apart & needing a special tool.

Rob


Post# 287192 , Reply# 18   7/4/2014 at 08:43 (2,100 days old) by cuffs054 (monticello, ga)        

Many years ago I bought an abused filter queen at a thrift store. Got it home and it barely ran and you could see significant sparking in the exhaust port. Obviously (to me!) It needed lubrication. Fired that puppy up and sprayed some WD40 in exhaust. My,my,my that was not smart.

Post# 287197 , Reply# 19   7/4/2014 at 09:39 (2,100 days old) by vacman33 ()        
Open the Machine

Take some wd40 and spray it around the rubber gasket and let it sit for a half hour or so. At that point it loosens the seal around the machine and you can the take a flat head screw driver and pull it apart.

Post# 287452 , Reply# 20   7/6/2014 at 12:32 (2,098 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Show us an image of these screws that require a "special tool". I am guessing they are one of several varieties of Torx screws, and if they are the "special tool" is a Torx bit in the right size, which are common as dirt in every hardware and auto parts store.

Post# 287453 , Reply# 21   7/6/2014 at 12:34 (2,098 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Btw, that has to be the cleanest vacuum motor I have ever seen aside from one that was new in the box.

Plenty of power tools have little fireworks shows going on inside when you use them. Drills especially. Some white to bluish sparks from the brushes of an electric motor that spins that fast don't even rate an arched eyebrow with me.


Post# 287507 , Reply# 22   7/6/2014 at 17:05 (2,098 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
Splitting the beast in half

There are 4 screws on the bottom, one on each end and two in the middle. They look rather funky but a flat head screwdriver will do the trick. The seal can be a bear to open and put back, but otherwise that's it. Very simple construction.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 287631 , Reply# 23   7/7/2014 at 13:00 (2,097 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Kinda fuzzy, can't tell what the fasteners are.

Post# 287705 , Reply# 24   7/7/2014 at 21:39 (2,097 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

those are square drive or standard blade... just be careful with the standard blade that it's wide enough and fits all the way down and you'll have no problem getting em out. Square drivers in various sizes are available at autoparts stores, wally world and Home Depot or Lowes





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