Thread Number: 17848
Very Rare for SA Hoover 638
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Post# 194007   8/9/2012 at 09:13 (2,600 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
I continue my quest to have as many Hoovers as John ( gottohavehoover) :)

I got this very sad looking beast today, Needs a full restoration, These models are rare here in SA as most have made there way to the scrap heap. Still runs but what a racket





Post# 194044 , Reply# 1   8/9/2012 at 15:42 (2,600 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

Holy crap! That poor chil' needs some cleanin' up! A good project for when you are bored. Are the parts essentially the same as the British models? Did they make any in South Africa? I seem to remember they told us at the factory in North Canton that they made washing machines in S.A., but what about vacuums?


Post# 194048 , Reply# 2   8/9/2012 at 16:13 (2,600 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Ooh, I can't wait for the restored pictures!

Post# 194053 , Reply# 3   8/9/2012 at 16:23 (2,600 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
John

Yes they made vacuums here in SA. In fact they had a huge test facility back in the 50's and 60's in the eastern Cape. All New designs of washers, vacuums and machines that could face abuse were tested out here. The idea was if it lasted here in SA it would last anywere.Kelvinator and indesit also had test facility's here in SA. Luckily nothing is broken on this poor machine just cosmetic and possibly a new motor bearing and top bush, and some new agitator bearings.

I am looking forward to working on this monster this weekend it shall be fun


Post# 194055 , Reply# 4   8/9/2012 at 16:26 (2,600 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Have you ran it without the belt to make sure the motor bearing requires replacement ?

In my experience the brush roll bearings were the ones to go whilst the motor bearings lasted very long indeed.

That reminds me, I shall have to replace the brush roll in my Senior, since the bearings are gone and it is getting rusty it seems easier to just put a shiny new one in.


Post# 194057 , Reply# 5   8/9/2012 at 16:34 (2,600 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
hi again

anthony's profile picture
it dont look to bad to me is the bag any good? these machines were practically bomb proof they run forever it should fix up quite well look forward to seeing the finished product good luck regards Tony

Post# 194067 , Reply# 6   8/9/2012 at 17:11 (2,600 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
When I do a rebuild I always put in new bearings, it just makes the motor run sweater .
Plus the Plonker who had it used it to suck up cement dust as in pre mix and nothing dries out bearings and seals like that stuff.

Bag is ok , not perfect but ok, this one has a paper bag in it


Post# 194150 , Reply# 7   8/10/2012 at 10:30 (2,599 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Probably best! I'm just a parsimonious Scotsman...

Post# 194161 , Reply# 8   8/10/2012 at 12:55 (2,599 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

Cement dust?! OMG! I bet this is going to be a fun clean-up.

 

Are you going to attempt a re-paint? The base looks pretty rough...


Post# 194171 , Reply# 9   8/10/2012 at 15:02 (2,599 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
You guys called this the Hoover Citation in the USA right except the switch was on the handle ?

Post# 194191 , Reply# 10   8/10/2012 at 18:33 (2,599 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

No, Garrett. This was the DeLuxe Model 63. It was the "first" upright Hoover to have a completely disposable inner paper bag. The Citation (Model 64), in a taupe/tan color scheme followed in, I believe 1956. It had a vinyl outer jacket with a zipper and the same Type C disposable bag that debuted on the 63. The 63 still had a sleek nylon blue outer jacket, tapered at the bellows below. It differed from the 62, the model prior to the 63, in that the 62 still had the "Handi-Sac", an emptyable, (is that a word?) reusable inner paper bag not unlike the Models 60 and 61 of the 40's. Hoover first tried this concept in 1929, but got in trouble with AirWay, so they shelved the idea until 1940 when the Model 60 debuted.

 

My profile picture is a Model 62 that featured the Handi-Sac.

 

Below is a picture of my old Model 63...


Post# 194409 , Reply# 11   8/12/2012 at 09:08 (2,597 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
I often wonder why Hoovers in the USA had switches on the handle but the UK and SA had switches on the base, even the very last plastic hood and base convertibles had there switches on the base here in SA


Note the orange switch on the right of the hood


Post# 194417 , Reply# 12   8/12/2012 at 11:29 (2,597 days old) by 1926700 ()        
John L.....

i have that same carpet in my dining room, it was given to me.....for the simple reason that i HATE bare floors....=)....and i also have a issue of Montgomery Wards from 1974 that has that carpet in 3 variety's...green, yellow, and the red we both have....

Post# 194442 , Reply# 13   8/12/2012 at 15:40 (2,597 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
That will be a great cleaner, once again.

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

Glad it's in YOUR hands.  They really were 'bombproof'.I have several.  Here's mt Citation, with a replacement bag.  It was the forerunner to the beloved Convertible.   That switch in the handle was SOO convenient.

  I was told that U.K.HOOVER had to have the switch 'down there' because of the current.


Post# 194446 , Reply# 14   8/12/2012 at 15:53 (2,597 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Thank you John

I am having trouble getting the correct colour match for the base at the moment.

That is interesting what you said about the current IE higher voltage,WHY interesting is because the Hoover 912 had its switch in the handle here in SA.

I have been on the lookout for one of these for ever, WE are moving our business to bigger premises and I am planing a vacuum cleaner time warp


Post# 194455 , Reply# 15   8/12/2012 at 16:38 (2,597 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Oh my Gareth, is that a... SENIOR RANGER!?

I don't see why the current would have any influence on the placing of the power switch though ?


Post# 194502 , Reply# 16   8/12/2012 at 22:34 (2,596 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

1926700 -

 

I HATED that carpet, mostly because I hated that room. It was upstairs, almost completely unheated and uncooled. It had hideous pink walls (last painted in the 40's), and that horrible red carpet (not tacked down - you had to be careful to not get too close to the edges with a revolving brush). I had big plans for it, none of which came to pass before I sold the house. It was the site of the 2001 visit by members who came to Portland for the convention that year. We had lots of fun.

 

But I see that carpet in my nightmares.....J


Post# 194503 , Reply# 17   8/12/2012 at 22:36 (2,596 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

Here's my Citation ---


Post# 194504 , Reply# 18   8/12/2012 at 22:37 (2,596 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

Another view --


Post# 194512 , Reply# 19   8/12/2012 at 23:22 (2,596 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
John!!

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

Beautiful specimen there.   I hope, one day, to procure the correct bag. Is that your current residence?  Very nice.

John.


Post# 194520 , Reply# 20   8/13/2012 at 00:33 (2,596 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

John -

 

The Citation bag is in good condition, though it is starting to fray slightly at the top edges. These bags were rather fragile, made of a blend of materials not as durable as the Convertible bags. They seem to be partly brittle plastic.

 

These pictures were taken at a friend's place in Northern AZ, where my vacuums were about to go into temporary storage. I took pictures of them all just before storage. When I went to retrieve them last year and bring them to Tucson, I was SO glad to see them again after a year of being in storage. This particular Citation was found for me by my friend (and our early club member) Mike Pupek. I've had it for about 20 years.


Post# 194523 , Reply# 21   8/13/2012 at 01:34 (2,596 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
Very nice

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

It IS great to see something  beautiful again,  after a year or so in absence.

  I, too, had HOOVERS stashed away, just before all of the disasters happened here.  Always nice to reunite.

John


Post# 194533 , Reply# 22   8/13/2012 at 04:46 (2,596 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
638 & Switches

vacbear58's profile picture
Hi Gareth

Great find, I know it will clean up lovely :) That sticker shows that this cleaner passed through the same vac shop/service centre as my 4006 (yellow Ranger).

From the introduction of the 612/119 ranges the UK versions of Hoovers (and at this time SA was controlled from Perivale, not North Canton) all had cables mounted on the outside of the handle, foot switch. You may not have noticed it but US cleaners have the cable hooks on the left (looking from the front of the machine) and UK on the right.

Although this is specualtion it may have been something to do with the attached extract about a campaign to save materials and labour costs, which the UK version certainly did over the US version. Also the same handle was used for the 119 & 612 and of course the cable hooks could not be on the left as it would have conflicted with the bag.

Al



Post# 194641 , Reply# 23   8/13/2012 at 14:40 (2,596 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture

I have just taken the poor thing apart to start working on it, Infact as I am typing this the metal base is in my industrial dishwasher we use to clean up vacuums to prepair it for paint stripping and then a fresh coat of paint. 

 

Is there any one who may have a Blue bumper strip I could buy from them, this one is badly cracked although in one piece. I would love to get a nice looking one. The bag zipper has had it too and the bag looks like it will fall apart I may have a new one made.

 

I have taken pics and will upload all soon


Post# 194655 , Reply# 24   8/13/2012 at 16:07 (2,596 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
John, the rug that Citation is sitting on is BEAUTIFUL! I certainly wouldn't be having any nightmares about that! On the contrary.

I know what you mean about poorly fitted carpets, I seem to remember in the house we were in before last the carpets came away at the skirting boards and many times got trapped in the brush roll.


Post# 194703 , Reply# 25   8/13/2012 at 21:07 (2,595 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

No, Jamie --- I meant the rug that the Hoover 63 was on. That hideous red thing. Ehttp://www....it gives me the heebie-jeebies just to look at it. And, it had a strange smell, too.....


Post# 194886 , Reply# 26   8/14/2012 at 17:09 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Looking all sad awaiting its fate.

Post# 194888 , Reply# 27   8/14/2012 at 17:16 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
on the bench for strip down

Post# 194891 , Reply# 28   8/14/2012 at 17:20 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
look at all that cement dust

Post# 194893 , Reply# 29   8/14/2012 at 17:22 (2,595 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
I knew what one you meant John, but I was talking about the rug, maybe in a rather confusing manner...

Post# 194894 , Reply# 30   8/14/2012 at 17:22 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
underneath not to bad

Post# 194896 , Reply# 31   8/14/2012 at 17:24 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Made in GB

Post# 194898 , Reply# 32   8/14/2012 at 17:25 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
top off very dusty

Post# 194900 , Reply# 33   8/14/2012 at 17:27 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
plastic I thought the headlight lenz's on these were glass

Post# 194901 , Reply# 34   8/14/2012 at 17:31 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Cooling fan damaged

Post# 194902 , Reply# 35   8/14/2012 at 17:32 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Wrecked

Post# 194905 , Reply# 36   8/14/2012 at 17:35 (2,595 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Goodness me how did THAT happen!?

Post# 194907 , Reply# 37   8/14/2012 at 17:36 (2,595 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Ready for the media blasting

Post# 194926 , Reply# 38   8/14/2012 at 19:39 (2,594 days old) by portable (Corvallis, OR)        

portable's profile picture

I'm sayin' some prayers for the old girl, G. She is sad. I bet she'll be pretty when you are done....


Post# 194971 , Reply# 39   8/14/2012 at 22:33 (2,594 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
It already suffered it's fate.

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

Just wait until you 'attack'.  the end product will be amazing.   Lucky vac.    It's kinda like an animal that was abused, taken to the shelter, then, someone comes along to take them home and love them. A great 'second chance'.

John.


Post# 194997 , Reply# 40   8/15/2012 at 00:32 (2,594 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
So true What i didn't tell you guys is that I rescued this one from the scrapyard were it would have been turned into razor blades.

What is interesting is that the base on this one is grey not soft blue like other 638's I am not sure if to have it sprayed blue or grey again, I am not a very grey person :)


Post# 194999 , Reply# 41   8/15/2012 at 00:43 (2,594 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
A rescued HOOVER!!!!

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

Very well done!  You didn't ask my opinion.  BUT,  if it were MINE,  I'd go for 'pure'. as fa as color goes.  But,  that's just me.

John.


Post# 195000 , Reply# 42   8/15/2012 at 00:44 (2,594 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
or, just look at John Lucia's

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

It's beautiful.


Post# 195004 , Reply# 43   8/15/2012 at 00:55 (2,594 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
By pure you mean stick with its origional colour ( grey ) ?



Post# 195005 , Reply# 44   8/15/2012 at 00:56 (2,594 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
and John I may not have asked for your opinion but I value it alot

Post# 195012 , Reply# 45   8/15/2012 at 03:32 (2,594 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

How did the previous owner or user wreck the motor fan?Good one.And that poor machine-looked like it cleaned up a major renovating job.How was the suction fan?Was it broken or eroded?Very nice Hoover despite its abuse.

Post# 195022 , Reply# 46   8/15/2012 at 05:36 (2,594 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
suction fan is ok pitted but no damaged.

Post# 195023 , Reply# 47   8/15/2012 at 05:37 (2,594 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
Headlight

vacbear58's profile picture
Gareth

The headlamp cover on mine is plastic too. The flex looks like it might be original, the bag a late 60s or 1970s replacement. What is the serial number - might be able to get a date for you.

Al


Post# 195026 , Reply# 48   8/15/2012 at 05:45 (2,594 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
HI Al

serial no JP 271492


Post# 195031 , Reply# 49   8/15/2012 at 06:11 (2,594 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
July 1952 ?

Post# 195035 , Reply# 50   8/15/2012 at 06:16 (2,594 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

"Pitted"-Not damaged---after all that-renovation cleaning the fan is OK-shows the TOUGHNESS of the original metal Hoover fans!!But you wonder how the motor cooler fan got broken-never seen that.

Post# 195036 , Reply# 51   8/15/2012 at 06:20 (2,594 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Same here, I just can't figure it out...

Post# 195217 , Reply# 52   8/15/2012 at 17:02 (2,594 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
Date

vacbear58's profile picture
Gareth

The serial number dates the 638 to July 1958 - this cleaner is slightly younger than I am!

Al


Post# 195219 , Reply# 53   8/15/2012 at 17:06 (2,594 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
How did you work that out Al ?

Post# 195220 , Reply# 54   8/15/2012 at 17:10 (2,594 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
Serial numbers

vacbear58's profile picture
I have a list of serial numbers from 1953 to 1963.

The year and month convention in the serial number was not introduced until 1968 or so


Post# 195250 , Reply# 55   8/15/2012 at 20:00 (2,593 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

One of the major advantages of a Hoover cleaner with a foot operated switch is the reduction in materials, as Vacbear said. But not all the savings were in the materials (not to mention labour) used to make a cleaner with a handle-mounted switch unit, a lot of savings went into packaging too. The cleaners with foot switches all had two-piece handles, something which was difficult to have on a cleaner which required wiring to be fitted through the handle. The two-piece handle and removable bag allowed even the largest of Hoover cleaners to be packed into the smallest of boxes. I am not sure how it worked, but I was given to understand that cleaners made in the USA were not often made for other countries, whereas a good deal of cleaners built in the UK were for the export market.

The UK 912 commercial cleaner always had a handle-mounted switch and this cleaner came packed in two boxes; one for the cleaner and one for the long one-piece handle. This I assume would have been very inconvenient and costly if used for all the cleaners in the Hoover range. The reason for the cord hooks on being on the right of the cleaner (as one stands behind of it) on cleaners with handle-mounted switches is because most cleaners were designed for a right-handed operator. Hence, the foot controls for the handle are on the left for ease of use and the cord hooks on the right so as not to get in the way of the user. This was made possible due to the mains lead leaving the cleaner high up the handle, in a middle position which enabled great movement, and could be taken to the left for cleaning and to the right for storage.

On cleaners with foot switches, this was not possible, because the mains lead passes up the side or rear of the handle, but has to be bolted to the side of the cleaner so as not to foul the bag hook. This means the lead can only sit on the left or the right, but not both, so it was decided to make it on the left to suit a right-handed user. With that in mind, it was then nessecary to fit the cord storage hooks onto the left of the handle too, as there was no way of taking the mains lead across to the right hand side for storage unless it was stretched across the front of the handle.

On Junior cleaners, the same thinking applies, although of course the side-mounted dustbag dictates the position of the flex hooks, and the mains lead is bolted to the rear of the handle simply because the side-mounted dustbag makes this possible. Indeed, bolting the lead to the rear of the handle would have been preferable on all models, had it been physically possible to do so with a rear-mounted dustbag.


Post# 197520 , Reply# 56   8/26/2012 at 15:32 (2,583 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture

Stripping 


Post# 241215 , Reply# 57   7/21/2013 at 12:50 (2,254 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Its taken a long time, But the 638 is finally been put back together

Post# 413037 , Reply# 58   8/23/2019 at 15:27 by sillysid123 (Lincolnshire )        

hi there

i have recently bought myself a uk senior 638. (model 63 usa) . i just want some info and history of this machine. wat year they started making them and the year they stopped. what it replaced. and what replaced it. and how many they sold. uk and usa varients. sadly mine doesnt have the original bag or handle. cheers!





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