Thread Number: 17690
1979 Electrolux 502 "High Suction"
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Post# 191496   7/26/2012 at 10:04 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Here she is! Bought her for £2.99 from eBay and she arrived today (5 days after dispatch - yeah, Parcelforce rocks...).

When I got her out of the box she looked a bit rough and ready, but I wouldn't say ugly. No vintage Electrolux looks ugly, no matter how beaten and battered!

Not that she was beaten and battered, just general wear and tare to the bodywork.

First of all I saw to the technical bits, lubricating the brush roll bearings, cleaning out the brush roll (when I slid the brush strips out I found the hollow inside of the roll was PACKED with dust), fitting a belt and bag (no filters were with it and I'm still waiting on ones arriving through the post but the bag is a good enough filter for now).

Then I gave it a quick test to see it worked on the rug in the hall with the dust that came out of the brush roll and hey presto the 425W motor fired into life right as I turned the socket on, much to my surprise as I thought I had the switch at the off position, but it seems to be the opposite of my 502S power switch. Strange!

Anyway, it ran well and picked up the dust no problem BUT I did notice the high pitched noise the seller mentioned. It happens every now and then. Sometimes it will sound nice and quiet then suddenly it will sound like finger nails scraping a black board! I'm thinking maybe the carbon brushes are hitting the commutator ?

Since I determined it worked I turned it off and got to work making her look fantastic.

Didn't take much work, just some water with Fairy Liquid and a cloth. Then after that I brought the paint up like new with some furniture polish. Bliss...

Then I remembered I should have checked the plug before doing anything so I did that, to find a perfectly wired plug (that's rare!) but a 13 AMP fuse in it. Tut tut, not too safe. So I put a 3 AMP in and that was her mini-restoration complete.

I then gave her a longer test by vacuuming the entire upstairs and although the high pitched noise reoccurred every now and then she picked up brilliantly (the "High Suction" is very true) and I could hear the beater bar grooming the carpet as the brushes swept it. It is a great mini Hoover! Ha ha.

Anyway, here are the pictures and if you have any information on the noise, please let me know!



Post# 191497 , Reply# 1   7/26/2012 at 10:06 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Picture two...

Post# 191504 , Reply# 2   7/26/2012 at 12:25 (4,263 days old) by rutger (England)        

£2.99 for that, wow, bargain !

Really nice vacuum, the styling is fabulous.

Dave


Post# 191505 , Reply# 3   7/26/2012 at 12:27 (4,263 days old) by rutger (England)        

I meant to add, what's the round plug type thing for on the back low down? Is that where tools attach?

Dave


Post# 191520 , Reply# 4   7/26/2012 at 13:43 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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That is where the hose inserts.

Yes, I agree the 500 Series were beautiful Vacuum Cleaners!


Post# 191521 , Reply# 5   7/26/2012 at 13:44 (4,263 days old) by singingrainbow (Texas)        

Jamie, I just found this but you might have seen this already.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO singingrainbow's LINK

Post# 191526 , Reply# 6   7/26/2012 at 13:58 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Yep I've seen that, not a bad advert for the 70s.

Electrolux did make good money with selling the 500 Series, especially the 502 and 502S as they were lower priced than the 550 the 560-Electronic.


Post# 191532 , Reply# 7   7/26/2012 at 14:09 (4,263 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Jamie, this is a later model as the dust box is like that of the 504 with a long label. But how do you know it is from 1979? The 3 amp fuse will be a much safer bet, but I should tell you that even the instructions for these cleaners recommended a 13 amp fuse. This would have been techinically too large to protect the size of flex used on this model, but too small a fuse runs the risk of a fuse blowing on start up. But I do know from experience that these cleaners will work off a 3 amp fuse.

Post# 191536 , Reply# 8   7/26/2012 at 14:28 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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It was a guess to be honest with you Benny. They ran from '75 to '79 and since I realised the strip on the bin was extended to the bottom unlike the early ones, I just said '79 as in my eyes that would be about right.

Post# 191538 , Reply# 9   7/26/2012 at 14:32 (4,263 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I forgot to tell you that the 500 and a good deal of the 502 cleaners had the mains switch upside down. This was how it was meant to be and was described as being like this in the booklet. A few late 502 cleaners had it the right way.

Post# 191546 , Reply# 10   7/26/2012 at 15:08 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I see, it did surprise me when it jumped into life even with the switch on what I thought was off!

I wonder why they did that then changed it for the 502S ? Can't see the logic in it myself.


Post# 191547 , Reply# 11   7/26/2012 at 15:09 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Oh and Benny, you couldn't shed some light on the finger nails over a blackboard noise it is making intermittently could you ? I imagine you'd know the answer in a second but you haven't mentioned it.

Post# 191548 , Reply# 12   7/26/2012 at 15:10 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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And another question (sorry), was the handle meant to be cream even though the rest of the cleaner is green ?

Post# 191552 , Reply# 13   7/26/2012 at 15:22 (4,263 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

The handles were always an odd shade of green and did not fade like the rest on it. I don't know what the noise is unless it's the bag full whistle. The upside down switch was a carry on from the 500 but why they did this when the 504 didn't I don't know. All I know is that the 502 was a tiny bit earlier than the 504 so maybe it was because the instruction books had already been printed to say the switch started the cleaner when pushed up. I know the 500 book mentions this.

Post# 191553 , Reply# 14   7/26/2012 at 15:27 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I did think the whistle, but it is coming from the cleaning head and thus; the motor.

I'll keep using it and if it blows up, ah well. Could just be one of those things that don't do any harm and you grow accustomed to.

For now I'll put it down to "character"!


Post# 191557 , Reply# 15   7/26/2012 at 15:34 (4,263 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

It could be the belt if it has slipped off and worn through the cleaner. That happens a lot.

Post# 191563 , Reply# 16   7/26/2012 at 15:37 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I thought that too, but on inspection the motor housing wasn't worn through and it has a brand new belt.

Could be starting to wear through though. I would put some oil on the motor housing to stop the sound if I knew that was what it was, but then it could contaminate the belt and cause slipping.

Can't win!


Post# 191564 , Reply# 17   7/26/2012 at 15:40 (4,263 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Jamie turn the cleaner over, remove the sole plate from the hose and the roller from the cleaner. Put them on the floor and take a photo for us to see of the upturned cleaner and the parts. We may be able to see more.

Post# 191566 , Reply# 18   7/26/2012 at 15:42 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I will do that tomorrow, thank you Benny.

Post# 191582 , Reply# 19   7/26/2012 at 17:16 (4,263 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh)        
Congratulations

paulc's profile picture
Jamie, firstly on getting such a great vacuum for a bargain price and secondly on the great clean up job!

One thing though, you will need to get a bumper for it. On the 500 series the bumper seals the gap between the hood and the sole plate. If no bumper you do loose suction.

I hope you manage to get the strange noise sorted. Does it look like someone has broken the seal on the motor at the fan end? If I remember correctly there is some kind of spring between the two fans, if someone has fiddled about with that then that may be causing the noise. In any case, hope it's an easy fix,

PaulC


Post# 191586 , Reply# 20   7/26/2012 at 17:25 (4,263 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I didn't know it sealed the gap Paul, thanks for pointing that out.

I have found a replacement bumper from the internet for £10 so when I'm a bit flush sometime I'll buy two. One for the 502 and one to replace the slightly worn out one on the 502S.


Post# 191607 , Reply# 21   7/26/2012 at 21:35 (4,262 days old) by vacu-finder ()        

I heard through the grapevine that the 502S had Motor problems.

Post# 191628 , Reply# 22   7/27/2012 at 04:05 (4,262 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

They had no more problems than any other in the series before or after, as they had he exact same motor. For a while, some had a ceramic pulley fitted to the spindle which drives the belt, but that didn't make any difference to the performance or longevity of the motor.

Post# 191639 , Reply# 23   7/27/2012 at 05:12 (4,262 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
as they were lower priced than the 550 the 560-Electronic.

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Well, the 550 and 560 were much later than the 502 and 502S. The 550 and 560 were the very last of the old style switch-on-handle 500's before they were replaced by the twin turbo style in 1986.


Post# 191652 , Reply# 24   7/27/2012 at 09:08 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Here are the pictures you requested Benny. I didn't take one of the brush roll because I looked at it myself and didn't see anything different from the brush roll in my 502S (apart from the beater).

One thing I did notice (that you'll hopefully see in the pictures) is that there is a circle of rubber or something around the motor pulley...

Oh and when the brush roll is turned by hand with the belt fitted it feels slightly rough and makes a dull noise like a worn wheel bearing in a car, but apart from that it also makes a squeaking noise like rubber against rubber although I can see no such rubbing.


Post# 191653 , Reply# 25   7/27/2012 at 09:10 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Picture 2

Post# 191654 , Reply# 26   7/27/2012 at 09:11 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Picture 3

Post# 191655 , Reply# 27   7/27/2012 at 09:12 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Picture 4

Post# 191678 , Reply# 28   7/27/2012 at 10:53 (4,262 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Turbo500, the 502S was on sale next to the 506. While the 502S was still in production, the 506 was changed to the 560 and the 550 went on sale too. So they were not much later. The 502S went on to be a Comet exclusive cleaner and finished production around the same time as the 550 and 560.

Jamie, the squeeking is the belt against the side of some plastic. The pully looks like it is coated in a layer of old rubber. The only thing I noticed was that in the first picture of the underside of the cleaner there looks to be a buldge in the right hand side where the roller bearing sits. This is very common when a roller wears out, as the bearing gets very hot and melts the hood of the cleaner.


Post# 191680 , Reply# 29   7/27/2012 at 11:00 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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So it could be the brush roll bearings that are causing the noise ?

I did notice one of the bearings causes a bit of resistance but I didn't think that could be the problem.


Post# 191684 , Reply# 30   7/27/2012 at 11:22 (4,262 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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Benny, my comment was not directly to do with the dates of the cleaner and more to do with the price. Jamie implied that the 500 and 502 were significantly cheaper than the 550 and 560, but there was a good 10 year gap between the launch of the 502 and the 550. Once inflation is taken into consideration, they were more than likely about the same

Post# 191718 , Reply# 31   7/27/2012 at 15:21 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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So just to recap, is it the brush roll bearings that are probably causing my high pitched noise ?

Post# 191724 , Reply# 32   7/27/2012 at 15:43 (4,262 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Turbo500 I guess it is the way one reads a message; what I read and interpreted from the original statement must have been different from what you did. This of course is always the bother with the written word.

Jamie, the squeaking is most likely the belt rubbing against a plastic surface. The likelihood is that the roller became faulty and as a result the belt has run to one side. Does the hood show signs of having been melted on the sides?


Post# 191725 , Reply# 33   7/27/2012 at 15:46 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Nope, it doesn't...

I wasn't actually meaning the squeaking noise though, I meant the really loud sound like finger nails being scraped over a black board that is happening intermittently.

I am desperate to get it resolved as I love the 502 and want it in tip top mechanical condition, something I fear it is not in at the moment.


Post# 191727 , Reply# 34   7/27/2012 at 16:00 (4,262 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Jamie if you can make a video of it, I might be able to hear and tell. Could be air escaping from one of many places.


Post# 191730 , Reply# 35   7/27/2012 at 16:03 (4,262 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Oh trust me, it is not air! It's like metal against metal or something.

I will make a video of it tomorrow and upload it to YouTube then put the link in this thread.

Thank you for your help so far, it is appreciated.


Post# 191868 , Reply# 36   7/28/2012 at 08:46 (4,261 days old) by Southernhoarder ()        

Hi Jamie,
I have just been reading about your 502 and here is a couple of suggestions i have for you.
In my experience currently being a vacuum cleaner engineer if you were to get funny intermittent metallic noises you firstly need to investigate this noise in stages.

Run the machine without the brushroll or belt attached or baseplate and see if it makes this noise you speak of,if it does you know it is the motor,if it doesn't it could be that the motor isn't under load with the belt and brushroll pulling on the spindle or you have a faulty brushroll.

As a guess and without seeing or hearing this machines i would probably say the motor bearings are worn /dry ,now depending on whether it is too worn you can on some of the 500 motors grease the upper bearing by taking the rubber bearing cover off to reveal the ball race inside and you would need some multipurpose high melting point grease.
Being as the machine is a year younger than me it is very old lol

Another thing is you shouldn't oil,grease the brushroll bearings,these are self oiling and by oiling them you risk contaminating them or prematurely burning them out.
Look at the bearing holes and make sure they are round and not elongated too also make sure that if it has new brush strips which would only be copy ones now that the staples holding the brushes on to the plasic slide piece isn't protruding as i always have to cut the staples down to prevent them rubbing/scoring in to the bearings housings.
Also being very careful but by taking the base plate and very gently holding the bearings with your fingers (I can't stress enough be so so carefull not to catch your hand on brushroll or bearings because it bloody hurts) but make sure the belt is running in a straight line,it shouldn't be running over and rubbing in to the motor cover,if you have someone with you to turn it on and off quickly if need be that would be ideal.


The nice thing about these machines are they are easy to work on and fantastic machines so you will be able to sort things out easily with the right guidance.

Me personally i would have put a 5amp fuse in as you are right on the threshold with a 3 amp,it may be fine with the 3 amp but you only need a surge and it will blow the fuse.

I hope that has been of some help to you,let me know how you get on and if you can't suss it make a video and i can listen to it


cheers

Ric :-)


Post# 191874 , Reply# 37   7/28/2012 at 09:23 (4,261 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Thank you for that Ric, but wait a second... You shouldn't oil brush roll bearings!?

That goes against everything I've been told so far... I always oil my bearings with every belt change and have had no issues.

When I bought the 502 it said on the eBay listing that it made the noise and in the same sentence that it didn't have a belt, so that would signify to me it makes the noise with the belt off too.

From what you said it is easy to lubricate the motor bearing, but I thought it was nigh on impossible ? Or maybe the 425W motor and 500W motors are different.

Lastly about the fuses, I've had a 3AMP fuse in my 502S for a year now and it hasn't blown yet.

My Hoover Junior which came today has a 5AMP fuse in it though despite being only 300 watts, so I'm not sure if that should be lower or not...


Post# 191876 , Reply# 38   7/28/2012 at 09:29 (4,261 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

If a 3amp fuse blows on start up, you know it was too low. And as has been said, you could find it suddenly blows due to a surge. But as you don't know the history of the appliance, where it was stored (for instance has it been damp) , and so on and so forth, I always went as low on the fuse as possible. But that was personal choice. I do know that I don't remember anyone coming back to me to say the cleaner I sold them or repaired for them had stopped working.

Post# 192047 , Reply# 39   7/29/2012 at 09:29 (4,260 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Well quite frankly we don't get many surges here in Scotland, in fact the last one was over a year ago, so if the fuse blew because of the occasional power surge but was fine under normal conditions, I'd still use the lowest possible.

On the brush roll bearing subject, can you correlate what Ric said about not oiling them Benny ?


Post# 192048 , Reply# 40   7/29/2012 at 09:30 (4,260 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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On a side note, my previous reply was posted at 09:29 forum time, EXACTLY the same time Benny posted his reply yesterday... Spooky!

Post# 192049 , Reply# 41   7/29/2012 at 09:34 (4,260 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I don't know what to say about the lubrication as I have always used a drop of 3-in-1 with no known problems. Each to their own. Incidentally, the surge talked about here is not a power surge from a spike in the mains, it is a surge of power drawn when an appliance starts up.

Post# 192052 , Reply# 42   7/29/2012 at 09:52 (4,260 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Oh I see, well in that case surely it would have happened by now ?

With all due respect to Ric and his beliefs, I think I'll continue to lubricate my brush roll bearings with 3-In-1 oil with every belt change.


Post# 192054 , Reply# 43   7/29/2012 at 10:00 (4,260 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

AS you wish Jamie. They shouldn't need much attention if you don't use the heavily.

Post# 192056 , Reply# 44   7/29/2012 at 10:03 (4,260 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Well that's the good thing about having a collection of vacuums, it means none of them are used repeatedly and thus maintenance is few and far between, giving me an easy life.

Post# 192740 , Reply# 45   8/2/2012 at 04:01 (4,256 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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OK, the Electrolux 502 is now removed from my list of Vacuum Cleaners for a reason I shall explain...

A couple of days ago (which leads me onto apologising for my absence) I decided to have another look at the 502.

So I did and what did I discover ? The noise WAS the belt rubbing against some plastic! I'd never have thought that could make such a noise.

I then realised that could be down to one of two things. The brush roll belt guide or the motor pulley.

To check the brush roll I took the original one out and put the one from my 502S in. Guess what ? No change.

Upon closer inspection, the motor pulley is very worn and is most certainly what caused the belt to drift into the plastic.

So, the 502 would need a new motor. But, I'm not too disappointed as there are plenty parts on the 502 which I will be able to use at some point on my 502S, plus the beater brush roll which I have already swapped over (my 502S had a Twin Turbo brush roll prior to this).

For £2.99, it wasn't bad even for parts.


Post# 192756 , Reply# 46   8/2/2012 at 05:35 (4,256 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)        

Jamie, I had the same problem as you with my mums Twinturbo a few years back. Intermittently it would screech then settle down again. After running it without the brush roll, i found it was a motor bearing issue.

When it comes to motor bearings on 500's, i've always had really good results with a few drops of 3in1 on both the bottom and top ones. the motors are really easy to take apart and a few drops of 3in1 usually loosens up the old grease slightly and completely rejuvenates them. I did it to my mums Twinturbo and it worked fantastically, really quietened the motor down. It still sounds quiet several years later. It also works well if they've not been used for a while and the bearings have started to sound dry.

I've got a video coming up on my youtube channel shortly of a 525 that belongs to Ric. When he gave it to me, it was almost seized and it sounded terrible (he can vouch for that because he was here when we plugged it in for the first time lol) I took the motor out, gave it a bit of a clean, put a few drops of 3in1 in it and hey presto! sounds like new now. When the video's posted (hopefully tonight) have a listen and see for yourself.

Ryan


Post# 192757 , Reply# 47   8/2/2012 at 05:38 (4,256 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)        

jamie, just saw your last message. apologies! lol well, if it ever happens again at least you've got an idea of what it could be. In the mean time, enjoy this vid i've uploaded of Rics Twinturbo 521 Special!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO ryry_87's LINK



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