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Thread Number: 17462
Straight suction canisters vs powered brush canisters. |
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Post# 188176 7/3/2012 at 21:23 (4,648 days old) by RainbowD4C  (Saint Joseph, Michigan ) |
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I thought that this could be an interesting conversation for some of us. I was looking at the pictures from the convention and I saw the ones of the cleaing competition and the told straight suction canister vacuum. I was shocked at how well they were picking up all the debris on the floor. I have always been a firm believer that for carpet you need a rotating brush if it's a canister or upright. However after seeing the cleaning compition pictures I think that maybe my theory has been proven wrong. What are your views on this?
I apologze if this conversation has been done already. | ||
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Post# 188250 , Reply# 6 7/4/2012 at 09:34 (4,648 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan ) |
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While I don't know entire vacuum history's like most of you I do know a few things here and there, and have been able to form my own opinion. I have to agree with the fact that if you have a canister and lots of carpet you need a powerhead. I just put a new belt on my Rainbow and it seems to be doing well and while my apartment is all hard floors I have large thick area rugs in my livingroom, bedroom and a runner down the hallway. The one day I was just to tired to get all the attachments out so I tried to vacuum with just the hard floor brush and needless to say it was a mistake.
@ Trebor. I never through about the fact that carpets back them were a lot different when the machines in the pictures were on the market so yes I'm sure that you could use a straight suction machine and get your rugs clean. As opposed to now carpets (when you find them in a house) are a lot different in material, texture, and piles. | ||
| Post# 188251 , Reply# 7 7/4/2012 at 10:31 (4,647 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA) | ||
I think another reason power nozzle canisters are popular here in US but not in Europe is many houses here have carpet whereas in the UK it's often hard floors. Here, most of our straight suction machines are the smaller more compact ones that are marketed towards people living in smaller homes or apartments. Mostly for above floor and hard floor cleaning and a few small rugs at most. They would make a perfect companion to an upright though.
I know I could not keep my carpeting clean with just a straight suction canister. Perhaps some low pile or soft carpets could be cleaned with a straight suction nozzle that has a good brush to separate the pile and get deeper down, but for a good deep cleaning a beater brush is needed. | ||
| Post# 188295 , Reply# 11 7/4/2012 at 15:42 (4,647 days old) by kenkart () | ||
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I Use. A straight suction cleaner about all of the time, Im not a big fan of uprights or power nozzles, I will use a revolving brush machine maybe once a month or so, just to groom the rug. | ||
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Post# 188363 , Reply# 13 7/4/2012 at 18:51 (4,647 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan ) |
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I know for myself I have always liked carpet. I have always thought that whatever room you keep the TV in should have carpet because that room is comfortable, and I like the feel of carpet on barefloor. So when I got this apartment I had to come up with something for my livingroom and bedroom so I just bought large plush area rugs so that the rooms could be defined. Plus I have a Rainbow rug cleaner and powerbrush and if I didn't have rugs then those would have just sat in the closet unused.
I like the combination that I have with hardwood and area rugs. It makes my apartment look comfortable and homey. @ vintagerepairer. You can still use a canister with a power nozzle to get into tight corners. Just use the attachments that come with the units. Thats what I do. I don't have a collection just my Rainbow and my Dyson DC35 and I have found no problems getting into tight areas at all with all the attachents I have to use. | ||
| Post# 188375 , Reply# 15 7/4/2012 at 19:20 (4,647 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the most efficient, economical and simplest way to clean a home that has any carpeting is with a vacuum team - an upright for carpets, and a canister for everything else. Neither kind of vacuum does both kinds of cleaning without a lot of complicated, unnecessary engineering gymnastics.
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| Post# 188380 , Reply# 17 7/4/2012 at 20:09 (4,647 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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Benny - Eureka, Hoover and General Electric marketed "home cleaning systems" in the 1950's that twinned carpet cleaning uprights with versatile cylinder vacs. It makes a lot of sense to this day.
When I grew up, we always had a vacuum team: at first a Eureka 260 upright and a brown GE cylinder (AV???), then my beloved "Goldie" (Gold Eureka 2083 Rugulator Cordaway Upright) paired with a quiet, powerful, lightweight Sanyo canister. I now am the proud owner of a highly efficient and powerful Hoover Tempo upright and a wonderful, quiet, lightweight Electrolux UltraSilencer Green canister. I could not be happier with this cleaning duo that together cost me no more than $550 Canadian dollars, including tax. | ||
| Post# 189489 , Reply# 18 7/11/2012 at 10:38 (4,640 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA) | ||
I'm a power head fan
I definitely choose a power head canister over anything else. My favorite machine is a Hoover PowerMax canister. You can add Supreme, Deluxe or Ultra as prefixes onto that but the basic concept of that machine just works well. 12" light in weight, easy to manuever power nozzle. Edge to edge agitator with suction duct extending under the belt to reach the far side, Slim design, headlight, dual brushed agitator with centralized suction duct and agitator cavity has a decent size opening for rug contact. With the onboard attachments I can clean every square inch surface in the house. Love Hoover's older style upholstery nozzle with the rubber fingers too.
I find uprights too bulky and straight suction heads just brush over the carpet, they capture paper hole punches and some crumbs but just roll hair up into little balls, eventually if you rub over it enough the hair ball gets big enough to be sucked up. But if I use my Hoover PowerMax about 95% of hair is gone on the first pass. Hoover streamlined their production and redesigned the original agitators in the 1999-2002 area on these so they were universal to fit the Elite, Dimension and other uprights with several support bars on the base plate. The Hoover PowerMax power nozzle only has the belt area and middle support bar so the original brush roll worked much better than the newer one which have non bristled crevices carved in for where support bars would be. I've been doing house cleaning for years. The PowerMax is easier to use and has outcleaned World Vac 6865, Powerforce, most bagless models, DC07, Majestic Triple Crown, Kenmore Power Mate, Whispertone, Caddyvac, Vicory and others. One thing I really wish is manufacturers revert away from the bulky gas pump style hand grips, their very bulky and too cumbersome for attachment cleaning on steps, dashboards, under furniture. I like the old Hoover Futura/ Dimension 1000 hose with sliding suction valve and slimmer design handle. Also Eureka Rotomatic hoses. The World Vac hose is similar but not as good as the Rotomatic, it felt like a cheaper plastic so there was a vibration, and it had too much movement where the plastic meets the metal. Don't like the Kenmore/ Panasonic non gas pump style electic, there's no place comfortable to hold onto. I'd be fine with manufacturers reverting back to the toe operated agitator on/off switch as on Beam Rugmaster, Hoover Quadrafex Powermatic and Panasonic Jet Flos. Especially if stuck on a rug, its quicker for me to shut it off with my foot, than it is to find the button on the handle. My Riccar 1700 hose handle has so many buttons, you have to study it to remember which is powernozzle. | ||
| Post# 189497 , Reply# 19 7/11/2012 at 12:19 (4,640 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
For my cylinders (canisters), it is straight suction all the way.
If you have good suction and put a bit of welly into "scrubbing" the carpets, they will clean just as well as a P/N. I don't really like scrubbing my carpets however and thus use an upright 90% of the time when cleaning the carpets. Still, I don't dislike putting some elbow grease into using the cylinders either. If the cylinder doesn't have enough suction to work effectively without a P/N, it shouldn't be in any collection. Just my two watts... | ||
| Post# 189517 , Reply# 20 7/11/2012 at 13:12 (4,640 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield. East Midlands) | ||
Now some sense from the UK
Well Jamie, another proclamation guaranteed to piss people off.
Have you ever used a cleaner with a power nozzle? Speaking for myself - yes I have. Vintage Hoover, Compact, Forcetech, Electrolux and my daily driver Miele Revolution. There is no shortage of suction on any of them. To me its an ideal combination of upright and cannister - excellent carpet cleaning performance with the convenience of a cannister. What beats me is why they are not more popular here, I would not have anything else now. Al | ||
| Post# 189520 , Reply# 21 7/11/2012 at 13:25 (4,640 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 189522 , Reply# 22 7/11/2012 at 13:28 (4,640 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield. East Midlands) | ||
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| Post# 189524 , Reply# 23 7/11/2012 at 13:38 (4,640 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 189526 , Reply# 24 7/11/2012 at 13:41 (4,640 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield. East Midlands) | ||
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My two cents | ||
| Post# 189528 , Reply# 25 7/11/2012 at 13:46 (4,640 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 189558 , Reply# 26 7/11/2012 at 16:44 (4,640 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA) | ||
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I find power nozzles so manueverable, and many self propel across the room. I would rest the hose handle on a chair ottoman or even the floor and then turn on the machine, and just watch power nozzles propel themselves forward. That's what so neat about power nozzles on a canister, the wand is lightweight enough that the agitator can be seen doing that. Uprights have too much bulk in the body and weight in the rear of floor base to see that kind of action. My previous Panasonic Jet Flo MC9527 used to practically pull me across the carpet of course I was 12 years old using it on a flat area rug. Hoover Quadraflex PowerMatic, Hoover PowerMax, Eureka World vac all act a little self propeled. The hardest ones I've used are:
1. CenTec CT14DX-- Not a fan of these. Very loud, but this is before CenTec renamed them to the Quiet Drive system and switched to the Serpentine belt. 2. Hoover Windtunnel old Style-- I think its because of the 15" width, rubber fingered dual edge groomers on each side and general good seal with the carpet. These power heads do clean well. 3. Eureka Rotomatic. I've heard that if you replace the VGII with a dual brush chevron generic agitator though it becomes much easier to push. I do really like this powerhead though. At the end of a forward pass, when pulling back, it leaves a gap in the carpet fibers, where you can see all the way down to the base of the pile. That tells me it's deep cleaning. I always like a groomed look whenever I run a vacuum cleaner. 
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| Post# 189815 , Reply# 28 7/13/2012 at 16:49 (4,638 days old) by kenkart () | ||
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I Also! Do not care for power nozzles, to me they are clumsy, Straight suction all the way for me! | ||
| Post# 189817 , Reply# 29 7/13/2012 at 16:50 (4,638 days old) by kenkart () | ||
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But! That is not to say I dont like them as collectables, especially the PN1 and PN2 Electroluxes, it is just very rare that i use one. | ||
| Post# 189822 , Reply# 30 7/13/2012 at 17:22 (4,638 days old) by williamr1248 (USA) | ||
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Straight Suction vs Power Nozzle Hans, These guys need to see your Apex. Talks about a powerful machine. I WOULD NOT have believed it until I saw an Apex in action! When I saw one, I just kept thinking -THIS IS JUST STRAIGHT SUCTION? I really could not believe it. | ||
| Post# 189855 , Reply# 32 7/14/2012 at 02:58 (4,638 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield. East Midlands) | ||
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Sensotronic
Calum
The ironic thing is that Hoover were the only mainstream brand to offer a PN in the UK, and it was a good one too - a little smaller than US models so ideally suited to our, generally smaller homes. If she had opted for a Senso 3 or 5 I doubt the 612 would ever have seen the light of day again Al | ||
| Post# 189866 , Reply# 34 7/14/2012 at 07:13 (4,638 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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The only reason I can see for a power nozzle being necessary is if there was an abundance of pet hair to be removed.
Buttons (cat) has started molting recently but her hairs still come off the carpet easily with the straight suction floor tools on my cylinders. It comes down to the velour strips and good suction. That reminds me, I need to buy another strip of velour for my Tango's floor tool, does anyone know where I can buy velour strips ? | ||
| Post# 189900 , Reply# 36 7/14/2012 at 17:57 (4,637 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
 Well, growing up where we had a Hoover Senior, then replaced by the scary Ranger, then replaced by a Junior, neither of them were as good when it came to using the tools and thus the Hoovers were naturally best for the carpets.
When it came to vacuuming carpets we always had Hoover back in the early days. When it came to cleaning dust out of awkward corners, we had something called a dust pan and brush. When we needed to get rid of cobwebs, a towel tied around a kitchen brush with elastic bands seemed to do the trick. Dust on hard floors? Kitchen broom, dust pan and/or brush.
How times have moved on, eh?
Jamie, you may well refer that it is your opinion of what you have declared, but stating "if the cylinder doesn't have enough suction to work effectively without a P/N, it shouldn't be in any collection," bears a statement that could overthrow others and their experiences. Please be aware of that. Since you give no actual evidence of any cylinder vacuum that is poor, you should learn to just stop spouting hoof before adding "two watts" as a final sentence to conclude your post.
As the owner of a Sebo K3 Premium, and have said this before, I'm not a fan of the cylinder with a PN idea; however I don't find the whole process to be that awkward, otherwise I'd have sold off my ET-H ages ago. I find it too heavy, having to pull the machine behind me and then push a heavy floor head in front, regardless of the fact that the Sebo head does have a slight self mechanised driven feel about it and the K series is far lighter than the D4 anyway - but it still doesn't make things better - when I know that the Felix upright is far easier to use and everything is "all in one" in front.
However basing my only experience with the Sebo P/N which is effectively similar to the ones on the Sebo Felix, PNs do the same job as an upright - you get a better flatter to the floor angle with the PN's connected to just the tube, hose and cylinder at the back and of course being able to get under low furniture is a boon compared to a conventional upright. Also, dependent on the need at the time, being able to use the same power head with just the hose & handle is great for use in the boots of cars, especially if you have an estate/station wagon.
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| Post# 190946 , Reply# 41 7/22/2012 at 07:37 (4,630 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center) | ||
In some situations a bare-suction nozzle is still adequate by todays standards,Or at least by my standards,:O)
Anyways,For example,One of my favorite (And most used) Cleaners,Is my 1968 Fair-Fax Home sanitation system,I mainly use it do to the following reasons, MANY attachments, EXTREMELY quiet 2-speed Versatile. This cleaner,However,Does not come with a power-nozzel,Even though i have pretty much all of the attachements,All i am missing is the floor-polisher,But i will check with that soon,As i am doing a video of it for my re-vamped youtube page (Vacguy99). Anyways,I have burber carpeting,and the nozzle does an excellent job of daily cleaning,But for the more fine,Rubbed in grit i bring out the Hoover Floor-Max or Electrolux L. -Alex. | ||
| Post# 191647 , Reply# 45 7/27/2012 at 07:23 (4,625 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 475520 , Reply# 46 2/12/2025 at 15:17 by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
when i was a small boy
back in the early 60s my grandma had an electrolux Z62 [no fitted carpets back then] she never used the floor tool instead she liked to use the upholstery tool on the end of the two wands .I once asked her why .She said that big thing is too clumsy its easier to get under the furiture and behind the telly and any other nooks and cranies she came across with the small tool .She also liked to empty ashtrays with the machine causing it to stink of stale ciggies .The Z62 was still in use in the late 90s when gran died
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Post# 475522 , Reply# 47 2/12/2025 at 16:42 by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon) |
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Royal 311
Royal continued making full-size straight suction upright cleaners for commercial use until 1985; their 311 was the last such offering after the Electro-Hygiene 2-230 was replaced in their consumer line in 1955 by the 285 with the revolving brush.
~Ben | ||
| Post# 475528 , Reply# 48 2/12/2025 at 20:08 by ElectricUtopia (England) | ||
‘She also liked to empty ashtrays with the machine causing it to stink of stale ciggies…’
Reminds me of this image from an Air-Way manual, emptying an ashtray with the hollow handle!
View Full Size
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| Post# 475533 , Reply# 49 2/13/2025 at 09:45 by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
Some of the best straight suction rug nozzles ever tested by the old VCCC were the Filter Queen, Compact, Rexair, and Kenmore.
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| Post# 475539 , Reply# 50 2/13/2025 at 11:59 by Human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
Aside from wet/dry shop vacs, the only two straight suction canisters I've ever used were a late '50s vintage Lewyt that looked like a pink and gray fire hydrant, and an Electrolux 1205 with a leaky hose that Dad grabbed from a neighbor's trash pile in the early '80s.
The Lewyt was our only vacuum cleaner when I was little, so I had nothing to compare it with. We had no wall-to-wall carpet, only area rugs, so it seemed pretty satisfactory. We got a Hoover Convertible (tan and green 'Brady Bunch' model) in the early '70s, and wall-to-wall carpeting seemed to systematically follow. I didn't understand about leaky cloth hoses when I was a teenager, so I just assumed the Electrolux just wasn't a great performer. I finally proved that theory wrong when I rescued it from my parents' attic in 2016 and connected it to a vinyl hose and PN2 for probably the fist time in its existence, and unleashed its true power. By that time, I was well aware of that a canister with a power nozzle was a formidable cleaning tool, having gotten my grandmother's Eureka Princess power team in about 1996 or '97. I've been a fan of that configuration ever since because of its lighter weight and greater maneuverability in tight spaces. Although these days, I have settled on metal Electroluxes (1205 and newer) as my canisters of choice, I'd still like to get my hands on another Eureka like my grandmother's. I still regret letting that one get away from me when I was married. Believe me, I miss that machine more than I miss my ex-wife. | ||
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