Thread Number: 17462
Straight suction canisters vs powered brush canisters.
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Post# 188176   7/3/2012 at 21:23 (4,286 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan )        

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I thought that this could be an interesting conversation for some of us. I was looking at the pictures from the convention and I saw the ones of the cleaing competition and the told straight suction canister vacuum. I was shocked at how well they were picking up all the debris on the floor. I have always been a firm believer that for carpet you need a rotating brush if it's a canister or upright. However after seeing the cleaning compition pictures I think that maybe my theory has been proven wrong. What are your views on this?

I apologze if this conversation has been done already.


Post# 188184 , Reply# 1   7/3/2012 at 22:08 (4,286 days old) by Trebor ()        
Straight suction machines were once the...

standard. Look at old Royal and Electro-Hygiene and other uprights. Unquestionably the Hoover was an improvement for deeper pile rugs. Moving into the 50's, flat rugs, even reversible ones became popular, and non-powered nozzles could do a decent job of cleaning them. By then, except for electric brooms, straight suction uprights had disappeared. Filter Queens and Compacts and Airways were sold in homes with wall-to-wall carpet, trading in "old-fashioned" uprights, with clogged cloth bags, worn brush rollers, and stretched belts.

 

Carpets are now manufactured by gluing two backings together, sealing the gaps and allowing little air to be pulled actually through the carpet. Straight suction nozzles like those included with the aforementioned machines and others are no more. Once the technology of the power nozzle was developed, the advancement of the non-powered nozzle simply came to a halt. It does make one wonder what could be achieved with today's advancements in metal technology and our knowledge of airflow dynamics, coupled with virtual 3D modeling.


Post# 188218 , Reply# 2   7/3/2012 at 23:49 (4,286 days old) by vintagekitchen ()        

For myself, I have to say a straight suction nozzle has always seemed much more limited in it's abilities. On carpet with any amount of pile they are not only harder to move, but clean less and less effectively the deeper the pile is. Also, even on a flat weave carpet, where a straight suction nozzle is most at home, bits of fluff or hair require one to sort of "scrub" at the carpet with the nozzle, in order to loosen the bits.

Though I do sometimes use a straight suction machine, mostly for fun, or when I simply want to remove some surface litter on a relatively clean carpet, to me they will never be on par with a powered brushroll for deep cleaning. When my Grandmother bought her Kirby Tradition, she was horrified at the amounts of dirt which kept coming out of her 6 month old shag carpet, that she had been cleaning daily with a straight suction Singer since it was installed. She said after seeing how fast those Kirby bags filled up digging out all the left behind dirt, she would never use a straight suction machine again.


Post# 188222 , Reply# 3   7/4/2012 at 00:08 (4,286 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I find these threads so very interesting. Because here in the UK one has to go a long way to find a powered cleaning head, despite being a country where wall to wall carpeting is rife. The suction powered heads have been around for a very long time but only became really popular within the last 10 years. The electrical powered heads have never been in fashion and have come & gone and were usually only available on top of the range cleaners. I think the unpopularity of PN's is because our homes are smaller and people who like canister cleaners over here do so because the cleaning head is so much smaller and lighter than an upright, as are the hoses and tubes. Adding a PN to that creates an additional bulk which I suppose one could say defeats the exercise of having a canister to begin with.

I've never considered the straight suction canisters to be all that good at vacuuming carpets really, but for us in the UK I think their lack of performance at deep cleaning carpets is balanced against the ability to quickly and easily get in and around and under furniture, which in a cramped home could be argued makes the canister as good as any other cleaner, because whilst it's not doing a deep-down clean of carpets, it is giving the user the means to get right into corners and other places which an upright or canister with PN would otherwise miss.


Post# 188232 , Reply# 4   7/4/2012 at 00:44 (4,286 days old) by vintagekitchen ()        
smaller homes..

Living in a 900 Square foot home, I see the point about a straight suction head being more agile for small spaces. I usually end up doing a good deal of cleaning in corners and under furniture using the upholstery nozzle or just the wand, since there are so many places an upright or powerhead simply will not fit here.

Post# 188249 , Reply# 5   7/4/2012 at 09:04 (4,285 days old) by Trebor ()        
A few nozzles on their respective machines...

have been proved to be effective carpet cleaners, and have even done well in cleaning competitions, most notably, Compacts, Apex canister, and the Rainbow D2 with the nozzle minus the air vents. The Sunbeam tuna can in Consumer reports in 1968 did well, too.


Post# 188250 , Reply# 6   7/4/2012 at 09:34 (4,285 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan )        

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While I don't know entire vacuum history's like most of you I do know a few things here and there, and have been able to form my own opinion. I have to agree with the fact that if you have a canister and lots of carpet you need a powerhead. I just put a new belt on my Rainbow and it seems to be doing well and while my apartment is all hard floors I have large thick area rugs in my livingroom, bedroom and a runner down the hallway. The one day I was just to tired to get all the attachments out so I tried to vacuum with just the hard floor brush and needless to say it was a mistake.

@ Trebor. I never through about the fact that carpets back them were a lot different when the machines in the pictures were on the market so yes I'm sure that you could use a straight suction machine and get your rugs clean. As opposed to now carpets (when you find them in a house) are a lot different in material, texture, and piles.


Post# 188251 , Reply# 7   7/4/2012 at 10:31 (4,285 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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I think another reason power nozzle canisters are popular here in US but not in Europe is many houses here have carpet whereas in the UK it's often hard floors. Here, most of our straight suction machines are the smaller more compact ones that are marketed towards people living in smaller homes or apartments. Mostly for above floor and hard floor cleaning and a few small rugs at most. They would make a perfect companion to an upright though.

I know I could not keep my carpeting clean with just a straight suction canister. Perhaps some low pile or soft carpets could be cleaned with a straight suction nozzle that has a good brush to separate the pile and get deeper down, but for a good deep cleaning a beater brush is needed.


Post# 188262 , Reply# 8   7/4/2012 at 11:05 (4,285 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Well no, the UK is a place full of wall to wall carpeting. The rest of Europe may be hard floors, but we don't do it here. There is and has been a trend this last 10 or so years for hard flooring as a fashion, mainly laminated floors, but even so I know a good deal of people in the UK who still have a carpet in the bathroom and toilet rooms. Fitted carpet is still very much alive and well. And often smelly.

Post# 188264 , Reply# 9   7/4/2012 at 11:45 (4,285 days old) by Trebor ()        
Some facts about carpet...

Carpet was the villain in the minds of allergists for decades. When the trend shifted to hard floors several issues became apparent

1) noise pollution, EVERY noise is magnified.

2) dust, it floats everywhere, and above the floor cleaning needs to be done more frequently

3) furnace filters need to be changed more often

 

Carpet does act as a filter, and filters need to be cleaned, or they become a contributor to the indoor atmospheric pollution

Air passing over walls and under furniture allows high concentrations of dust mite allergens to collect under furniture in the carpet. Most people do not vacuum under their furniture regularly because no one walks there.

 

The optimum solution is hard surface floors with hall runners and large area rugs with seating groups, hard surfaces to make cleaning under furniture easier, and a lack of warmth and shelter for dust mites and other critters while providing warmth, comfort, color and noise control.

 


Post# 188273 , Reply# 10   7/4/2012 at 13:39 (4,285 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

In my experience straight suction vacuum cleaners do not pick up as much dirt as a cleaner with a power head.
Pet hair in particular is very hard to remove with straight suction as I've noticed with many cleaners including Miele, that they tend to roll the pet hair up into strips that take forever to remove from the carpet. The fibre pickers on most floorheads don't work very well.

Add a power head and pet hair is picked up in one sweep. I have straight suction Miele and Sebo cleaners and I also have the equivalent power head versions which not only pick up pet hairs and deep down dirt, they also groom the pile. Air powered turbo heads are an improvement on straight suction, but I don't like the extra noise they produce and the efficiency drops off if the suction reduces.

It is true that a power head adds to the weight of the cleaner, but they are far easier to push than a straight suction nozzle. My Sebo D2 Storm is much harder work on carpet than my D4 premium with its power head.

A straight suction cleaner is best suited to homes with mainly hard floors and few rugs which is why they are popular in some parts of Europe. Being a vacuum enthusiast I naturally have several canister models to choose from and I always use a power head version for carpet cleaning. If I'm having a spring clean and want something to get into tight spaces or dust high areas, I would chose a lightweight compact straight suction canister like my Sebo K1 Komfort or Miele S4. I do have the Sebo extension hose that I use on my D4 Premium which gives the best of both worlds as I have a powerful machine with rotating brushes for carpets and the ability to clean high and low with the extension hose fitted to the power hose. This means I can leave the cleaner in one place and reach most areas of the room.

To sum up, yes power heads out clean straight suction nozzles but are heavier, though easier to push. I think the general public who choose straight suction canisters are happy as long as their carpets look clean, even if a lot of deep down dirt is being left in the carpet. Many people swear by their cute little Henry machines but I bet if a decent upright or canister with a power head was to be used after a few months of cleaning with Henry, the extra dirt removed that smiling Henry left would shock them.


Post# 188295 , Reply# 11   7/4/2012 at 15:42 (4,285 days old) by kenkart ()        
I Use.

A straight suction cleaner about all of the time, Im not a big fan of uprights or power nozzles, I will use a revolving brush machine maybe once a month or so, just to groom the rug.

Post# 188350 , Reply# 12   7/4/2012 at 17:50 (4,285 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

There can be no doubting that a straight suction cleaner with no power head does not clean carpets deep down as well as one which has such a device, or as well as an upright cleaner. I said as much earlier on. But I do still stand by my comments that their versatility allows the user to take the hose into places which uprights and cleaners with PN's cannot reach. One of my mothers biggest irritations was that the house they bought new when we moved to Doncaster in 1971 had wall to wall fitted carpets downstairs and her Hoover 262 did not get into the edges. Before this, we had only floorboards and large area rugs, and mother used to damp brush and damp wipe into every last corner. She hated using brushes on the carpet. Shortly after the move, she went to work for the local doctor as a receptionist and housekeeper (doctor lived next door to the practice). They had a Hoover Constellation in pink, and my mother had an open invitation to take it home on loan, which she did many times to clean edges and furniture, until she got her Electrolux 504 with tool kit.

I have since seen a good deal of homes which have never seen the end of a vacuum cleaner hose. Long grey strips adorn the edges of rooms along the skirting boards and around furniture when an upright cleaner has skipped around of everything. The main sections of carpeting may have been fairly well cleaned but the edges harboured a lot more. So I think one has to balance where the dirt is best collected from if it is a choice of cleaning middle or edges. When I think of some of the huge, heavy Hoover senior cleaners which people used to bring in for repair, I wonder how their houses allowed such a cleaner to be push around.

The apartment I am in now is all hard floors and I don't like it. The bathroom is none slip lino as it is a wet room, the rest of the place is laminated. I would like at least one carpet so as to keep dust down. As Trebor so rightly points out, nothing stays at floor level and it does send me a little bit potty.


Post# 188363 , Reply# 13   7/4/2012 at 18:51 (4,285 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan )        

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I know for myself I have always liked carpet. I have always thought that whatever room you keep the TV in should have carpet because that room is comfortable, and I like the feel of carpet on barefloor. So when I got this apartment I had to come up with something for my livingroom and bedroom so I just bought large plush area rugs so that the rooms could be defined. Plus I have a Rainbow rug cleaner and powerbrush and if I didn't have rugs then those would have just sat in the closet unused.

I like the combination that I have with hardwood and area rugs. It makes my apartment look comfortable and homey.

@ vintagerepairer. You can still use a canister with a power nozzle to get into tight corners. Just use the attachments that come with the units. Thats what I do. I don't have a collection just my Rainbow and my Dyson DC35 and I have found no problems getting into tight areas at all with all the attachents I have to use.


Post# 188369 , Reply# 14   7/4/2012 at 19:02 (4,285 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello Rainbow. You should see the size of some UK homes. Add to this now a love for lots of furniture. You will soon realise what I mean about tight corners. It isn't always about the room to fit a PN into, it is about having the room to move around without knocking things over with the heavier hose and so on. This is what I mean about the lovers of cylinder / canister cleaners in the UK being such due to the relatively small and lightweight floor tool. I have known of people in the UK who bought cylinder cleaners for their small homes and didn't even use the main floor tool, or in one case even the tubes. Yes, one woman told me she used to get on her hands and knees with just the vacuum cleaner, hose, and a small upholstery attachment, and vacuum her floors this way. I had occasion to visit her home once; it was tiny and I could barely move for furniture.

Post# 188375 , Reply# 15   7/4/2012 at 19:20 (4,285 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the most efficient, economical and simplest way to clean a home that has any carpeting is with a vacuum team - an upright for carpets, and a canister for everything else. Neither kind of vacuum does both kinds of cleaning without a lot of complicated, unnecessary engineering gymnastics.

Post# 188377 , Reply# 16   7/4/2012 at 19:29 (4,285 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

eurekaprince, that is just what my mother did in later years. She got an Electrolux 504 in 1975 and that had a really good set of tools and relatively powerful suction when compared to other uprights. To some degree it was like having a cylinder and an upright, although separate cylinder would usually have even more suction. A couple of years after getting the 504, her old 262 which had been put upstairs broke down. Mother part exchanged it for an Electrolux 302 cylinder. She often had me fetch the 302 downstairs so she could deep clean. I of course got the job of moving the furniture so she could get under and behind it.

Post# 188380 , Reply# 17   7/4/2012 at 20:09 (4,285 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Benny - Eureka, Hoover and General Electric marketed "home cleaning systems" in the 1950's that twinned carpet cleaning uprights with versatile cylinder vacs. It makes a lot of sense to this day.

When I grew up, we always had a vacuum team: at first a Eureka 260 upright and a brown GE cylinder (AV???), then my beloved "Goldie" (Gold Eureka 2083 Rugulator Cordaway Upright) paired with a quiet, powerful, lightweight Sanyo canister.

I now am the proud owner of a highly efficient and powerful Hoover Tempo upright and a wonderful, quiet, lightweight Electrolux UltraSilencer Green canister. I could not be happier with this cleaning duo that together cost me no more than $550 Canadian dollars, including tax.


Post# 189489 , Reply# 18   7/11/2012 at 10:38 (4,278 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
I'm a power head fan

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I definitely choose a power head canister over anything else. My favorite machine is a Hoover PowerMax canister. You can add Supreme, Deluxe or Ultra as prefixes onto that but the basic concept of that machine just works well. 12" light in weight, easy to manuever power nozzle. Edge to edge agitator with suction duct extending under the belt to reach the far side, Slim design, headlight, dual brushed agitator with centralized suction duct and agitator cavity has a decent size opening for rug contact. With the onboard attachments I can clean every square inch surface in the house. Love Hoover's older style upholstery nozzle with the rubber fingers too.
I find uprights too bulky and straight suction heads just brush over the carpet, they capture paper hole punches and some crumbs but just roll hair up into little balls, eventually if you rub over it enough the hair ball gets big enough to be sucked up. But if I use my Hoover PowerMax about 95% of hair is gone on the first pass.
Hoover streamlined their production and redesigned the original agitators in the 1999-2002 area on these so they were universal to fit the Elite, Dimension and other uprights with several support bars on the base plate. The Hoover PowerMax power nozzle only has the belt area and middle support bar so the original brush roll worked much better than the newer one which have non bristled crevices carved in for where support bars would be.
I've been doing house cleaning for years. The PowerMax is easier to use and has outcleaned World Vac 6865, Powerforce, most bagless models, DC07, Majestic Triple Crown, Kenmore Power Mate, Whispertone, Caddyvac, Vicory and others.

One thing I really wish is manufacturers revert away from the bulky gas pump style hand grips, their very bulky and too cumbersome for attachment cleaning on steps, dashboards, under furniture. I like the old Hoover Futura/ Dimension 1000 hose with sliding suction valve and slimmer design handle. Also Eureka Rotomatic hoses. The World Vac hose is similar but not as good as the Rotomatic, it felt like a cheaper plastic so there was a vibration, and it had too much movement where the plastic meets the metal. Don't like the Kenmore/ Panasonic non gas pump style electic, there's no place comfortable to hold onto. I'd be fine with manufacturers reverting back to the toe operated agitator on/off switch as on Beam Rugmaster, Hoover Quadrafex Powermatic and Panasonic Jet Flos. Especially if stuck on a rug, its quicker for me to shut it off with my foot, than it is to find the button on the handle. My Riccar 1700 hose handle has so many buttons, you have to study it to remember which is powernozzle.


Post# 189497 , Reply# 19   7/11/2012 at 12:19 (4,278 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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For my cylinders (canisters), it is straight suction all the way.

If you have good suction and put a bit of welly into "scrubbing" the carpets, they will clean just as well as a P/N.

I don't really like scrubbing my carpets however and thus use an upright 90% of the time when cleaning the carpets. Still, I don't dislike putting some elbow grease into using the cylinders either.

If the cylinder doesn't have enough suction to work effectively without a P/N, it shouldn't be in any collection.

Just my two watts...


Post# 189517 , Reply# 20   7/11/2012 at 13:12 (4,278 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
Now some sense from the UK

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Well Jamie, another proclamation guaranteed to piss people off.

Have you ever used a cleaner with a power nozzle?

Speaking for myself - yes I have. Vintage Hoover, Compact, Forcetech, Electrolux and my daily driver Miele Revolution. There is no shortage of suction on any of them. To me its an ideal combination of upright and cannister - excellent carpet cleaning performance with the convenience of a cannister. What beats me is why they are not more popular here, I would not have anything else now.

Al


Post# 189520 , Reply# 21   7/11/2012 at 13:25 (4,278 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Yes I have used a cylinder with a P/N and they work well, but I just prefer using a straight suction floor tool. If I want carpet grooming I can use an upright.

Post# 189522 , Reply# 22   7/11/2012 at 13:28 (4,278 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        


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Fine if that suits you, but your circumstances and preferences are not the same as everyone else's

Post# 189524 , Reply# 23   7/11/2012 at 13:38 (4,278 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I know that, hence saying "just my two watts".

Post# 189526 , Reply# 24   7/11/2012 at 13:41 (4,278 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
My two cents

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Does NOT excuse it!

Post# 189528 , Reply# 25   7/11/2012 at 13:46 (4,278 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Actually, it does, it says it is just my views.

Al, you seem like a decent person and I've got on with you in the past, I don't want to fall out over this.


Post# 189558 , Reply# 26   7/11/2012 at 16:44 (4,278 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

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I find power nozzles so manueverable, and many self propel across the room. I would rest the hose handle on a chair ottoman or even the floor and then turn on the machine, and just watch power nozzles propel themselves forward. That's what so neat about power nozzles on a canister, the wand is lightweight enough that the agitator can be seen doing that. Uprights have too much bulk in the body and weight in the rear of floor base to see that kind of action. My previous Panasonic Jet Flo MC9527 used to practically pull me across the carpet of course I was 12 years old using it on a flat area rug. Hoover Quadraflex PowerMatic, Hoover PowerMax, Eureka World vac all act a little self propeled. The hardest ones I've used are:
1. CenTec CT14DX-- Not a fan of these. Very loud, but this is before CenTec renamed them to the Quiet Drive system and switched to the Serpentine belt.
2. Hoover Windtunnel old Style-- I think its because of the 15" width, rubber fingered dual edge groomers on each side and general good seal with the carpet. These power heads do clean well.
3. Eureka Rotomatic. I've heard that if you replace the VGII with a dual brush chevron generic agitator though it becomes much easier to push. I do really like this powerhead though. At the end of a forward pass, when pulling back, it leaves a gap in the carpet fibers, where you can see all the way down to the base of the pile. That tells me it's deep cleaning.
I always like a groomed look whenever I run a vacuum cleaner.


Post# 189577 , Reply# 27   7/11/2012 at 19:40 (4,278 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Rainbow D2 w/R-1024 PN
Rainbow D4SE w/Jet Air rug tool or R-4375C PN
TriStar CXL w/PN
Electrolux L (either w/combo floor/rug tool or PN1)
Electrolux 1205 w/PN1 or PN2

Sometimes I use a Hoover Quadraflex or Eureka Rotomatic PN with any of the above vacs if I REALLY want to get the DEEPEST clean. :)


Post# 189815 , Reply# 28   7/13/2012 at 16:49 (4,276 days old) by kenkart ()        
I Also!

Do not care for power nozzles, to me they are clumsy, Straight suction all the way for me!

Post# 189817 , Reply# 29   7/13/2012 at 16:50 (4,276 days old) by kenkart ()        
But!

That is not to say I dont like them as collectables, especially the PN1 and PN2 Electroluxes, it is just very rare that i use one.

Post# 189822 , Reply# 30   7/13/2012 at 17:22 (4,276 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Straight Suction vs Power Nozzle

Hans,
These guys need to see your Apex. Talks about a powerful machine. I WOULD NOT have believed it until I saw an Apex in action!
When I saw one, I just kept thinking -THIS IS JUST STRAIGHT SUCTION?
I really could not believe it.


Post# 189825 , Reply# 31   7/13/2012 at 18:11 (4,276 days old) by Rolls_rapide (-)        

My mother used for years, her grandmother's Hoover 612.

In summer 1981, at a holiday cottage, we had the use of a Hoover Conquest cylinder, which was quite easy to use, and versatile.

Easter 1982, and the Hoover 612's motor packed in. Without a hoover for a fortnight, mum tried to brush the dog hair from the synthetic carpet - a hopeless task. So, off to Currys in Kilmarnock, and we came back with the new Hoover "Sensotronic System 2" suction cleaner

Mum used it for a couple of days, declared it was too awkward to use as a daily cleaner for dog hair, and banished it upstairs. The 612 was repaired and pressed back into service as the primary remover of fluff, dust and grit from carpets.

The Sensotronic was used to clean surfaces above floor, stairs, beds and the car.

So ideally, two different machines are best - and two people can use them at the same time, especially if getting the house shipshape for visitors at Christmas, etc. And, if one breaks down, the other is likely to be available.


Post# 189855 , Reply# 32   7/14/2012 at 02:58 (4,276 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)        
Sensotronic

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Calum

The ironic thing is that Hoover were the only mainstream brand to offer a PN in the UK, and it was a good one too - a little smaller than US models so ideally suited to our, generally smaller homes. If she had opted for a Senso 3 or 5 I doubt the 612 would ever have seen the light of day again

Al


Post# 189860 , Reply# 33   7/14/2012 at 06:21 (4,276 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        
Alistair

The Hoover Sensotronic System 3 did not come with a powerhead, although it would have been possible to add one as the power take off socket was on the remote control. System 4 and 5 had the Electro Kinetic head as standard, followed by the revamped system 40 and 50 models and finally systems 400 and 500 which used the Turbo 300 powerhead which I preferred to the Electro Kinetic one.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO sensotronic's LINK


Post# 189866 , Reply# 34   7/14/2012 at 07:13 (4,276 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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The only reason I can see for a power nozzle being necessary is if there was an abundance of pet hair to be removed.

Buttons (cat) has started molting recently but her hairs still come off the carpet easily with the straight suction floor tools on my cylinders. It comes down to the velour strips and good suction.

That reminds me, I need to buy another strip of velour for my Tango's floor tool, does anyone know where I can buy velour strips ?


Post# 189890 , Reply# 35   7/14/2012 at 13:55 (4,275 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Sensortronic, what were the model choices then? Was system 3 the remote control model, System 4 PN, and system 5 remote control with PN? Because I too thought system 3 had the PN, with system 4 having the remote, and system 5 remote and PN. There is a link here to a system 4 with remote but no PN.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO vintagerepairer's LINK


Post# 189900 , Reply# 36   7/14/2012 at 17:57 (4,275 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well, growing up where we had a Hoover Senior, then replaced by the scary Ranger, then replaced by a Junior, neither of them were as good when it came to using the tools and thus the Hoovers were naturally best for the carpets. 

 

When it came to vacuuming carpets we always had Hoover back in the early days. When it came to cleaning dust out of awkward corners, we had something called a dust pan and brush.  When we needed to get rid of cobwebs, a towel tied around a kitchen brush with elastic bands seemed to do the trick. Dust on hard floors? Kitchen broom, dust pan and/or brush.

 

How times have moved on, eh?

 

Jamie, you may well refer that it is your opinion of what you have declared, but stating "if the cylinder doesn't have enough suction to work effectively without a P/N, it shouldn't be in any collection," bears a statement that could overthrow others and their experiences. Please be aware of that. Since you give no actual evidence of any cylinder vacuum that is poor, you should learn to just stop spouting hoof before adding "two watts" as a final sentence to conclude your post.

 

As the owner of a Sebo K3 Premium, and have said this before, I'm not a fan of the cylinder with a PN idea; however I don't find the whole process to be that awkward, otherwise I'd have sold off my ET-H ages ago.  I find it too heavy, having to pull the machine behind me and then push a heavy floor head in front, regardless of the fact that the Sebo head does have a slight self mechanised driven feel about it and the K series is far lighter than the D4 anyway - but it still doesn't make things better - when I know that the Felix upright is far easier to use and everything is "all in one" in front.

 

However basing my only experience with the Sebo P/N which is effectively similar to the ones on the Sebo Felix, PNs do the same job as an upright - you get a better flatter to the floor angle with the PN's connected to just the tube, hose and cylinder at the back and of course being able to get under low furniture is a boon compared to a conventional upright. Also, dependent on the need at the time, being able to use the same power head with just the hose & handle is great for use in the boots of cars, especially if you have an estate/station wagon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Post# 189957 , Reply# 37   7/14/2012 at 23:48 (4,275 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        
Sensotronic Systems

Benny,

The first generation of Sensotronics as shown in the TV ad linked in an earlier post were as follows:

System 1 S3126 Basic model single speed straight suction in Red

System 2 S3128 Variable speed control and economy switch in green

System 3 S3132 Straight suction with remote control handle in a milk chocolate brown

Total System 4 S3130 Same control panel as system 2 with added power hose and Electrokinetc head in cream

Total System 5 S3134 Same as system 3 but with the power head in dark brown

The link showing a Sensotronic system 4 looks like a System 3 to me. The person who posted it has either made a mistake with the model name or this system 4 was an exlcusive model based on the mass market system 3. I know Comet sold exclusive systems 25, 35 & 55 models but I didn't know about a system 4 exclusive.

Throughout the life of the Sensotronic ranges, only the top two models has a power head as standard.
Total System 4, Total System 5, Total System 40, Total System 50, System 400 and System 500. The talking model the Audio 300 was available with a power head in some countries but not the UK.


Post# 189965 , Reply# 38   7/15/2012 at 04:10 (4,275 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello and thanks for explaining that. I knew that the top three models were a combination of remote controls and PN's, concluding with both on the system 5. I do wonder why Hoover made five cleaners and not just four, because I think that system 3 is redundant almost if you think that people who could have afforded that sort of cleaner may well have wanted to go the whole ten-miles and have the system 5 with the PN. Either way, of all the first-range sensotronics which came my way, most were system 1 and 2 models. I know that even they were quite a lot of money. Do you know how popular systems 3, 4, and 5 were? I do once remember giving a lady a price for a new remote control hose. She almost fainted! What she did next, I don't know, but she never bought the hose off me.

Post# 189981 , Reply# 39   7/15/2012 at 07:12 (4,275 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

I have no idea how popular systems 3, 4 and 5 were, but during the time they were on sale, I only saw a system 4 in an independent store in Croydon and can't remember seeing a system 3 on my travels. I saw mostly systems 1, 2 and 5. My very first brand new vacuum cleaner in my collection was a Hoover Sensotronic Total System 5 purchased in 1983 from SEEBOARD (south eastern electricity board) in East Grinstead, Sussex. I was too young to afford to buy it, so my dad signed the HP form for me and I paid for it out of my pocket money.
My version had the earlier power hose which was prone to splitting. It was replaced with the new silver version during the guarantee period.


Post# 190939 , Reply# 40   7/22/2012 at 07:00 (4,268 days old) by rutger (England)        

Hi

Today I tried a powerhead/ nozzle attachment with rotating brushes on one of my older Numatics. I've had the attachment a while but apart from just testing it worked hadn't used it.

I've got to say the difference in the appearance of the carpets compared to just using straight suction is very noticeable,(all my vacuums are straight suction canister types) the pile has clearly been lifted.
I did find it a bit of a pain to set up & a bit less manouverable than the standard system but i'll definitely be using it every few weeks just to freshen the carpet up.

I'm converted !

Thanks
Dave


Post# 190946 , Reply# 41   7/22/2012 at 07:37 (4,268 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

super-sweeper's profile picture
In some situations a bare-suction nozzle is still adequate by todays standards,Or at least by my standards,:O)
Anyways,For example,One of my favorite (And most used) Cleaners,Is my 1968 Fair-Fax Home sanitation system,I mainly use it do to the following reasons,
MANY attachments,
EXTREMELY quiet
2-speed
Versatile.
This cleaner,However,Does not come with a power-nozzel,Even though i have pretty much all of the attachements,All i am missing is the floor-polisher,But i will check with that soon,As i am doing a video of it for my re-vamped youtube page
(Vacguy99).
Anyways,I have burber carpeting,and the nozzle does an excellent job of daily cleaning,But for the more fine,Rubbed in grit i bring out the Hoover Floor-Max or Electrolux L.

-Alex.


Post# 191314 , Reply# 42   7/25/2012 at 06:10 (4,265 days old) by MikeKLondon ()        
Miele

My Miele cleans well with the PN but the hose is so short its not good at above floor cleaning, I do wish it was easy to get a good canister with PN's in the UK even Miele have stopped now, I have 2 but when they burn out I'm not sure what I will get. The one make it will not be is SEBO what a waste of money the felix was. Very good design and cleans OK, but such poor build

Post# 191339 , Reply# 43   7/25/2012 at 10:49 (4,264 days old) by rutger (England)        

I must admit that now i've used one & seen how good they are, I do wonder why they're not more readily available.
I've used the air-powered heads & whilst they appear to be better than the straight suction heads they're noisy & don't seem as good as the electrically powered ones.
Perhaps manufacturers need to educate people as to the benefits of powered heads on cylinder vacuums.

Dave


Post# 191484 , Reply# 44   7/26/2012 at 06:53 (4,264 days old) by uksausage (eastbourne east sussex UK)        
i love this debate

every time this kind of thing comes up i always read the whole thing its intresting to see everyones points of view, i personally still prefer an upright but i think thats more psychological we have been told so many times uprights clean better, i do have a few machines with power heads i have a miele cat and dog with optional powerhead also 2 wertheim vacuums both with powerheads the 4412 and the 4430 these are exellent vacuums they pull so much dirt out but are very unreliable as they are more or less tti machines where as before they were made by electrolux the power heads are more like older hoover ones as they are vmetal and have the beater bars and very stiff bristles and do an amazing job on pet hair and embedded grit but i still like my uprights as i get so annoyed having to pull the machine behind me while i clean oh well everyone has their own opinion my sister loves her wertheim and doesnt mind pulling it around, i do wish though that some of these new uk hoover machines had powerheads instead of the air driven turbo heads i just like to have this kind of thing in my collection

Post# 191647 , Reply# 45   7/27/2012 at 07:23 (4,263 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

David - its the brands who are fault in so far as cylinders with P/N' availability in the UK. They want more sales of their uprights and not of their cylinder vacs. Some brands offer both though and don't bother with the fear of snatching sales from either sector.



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