Thread Number: 17298
Question about Aerus Vacuums and Cyclonic Suction.
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Post# 185925   6/17/2012 at 06:28 (2,843 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

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Can someone explain to me how a bagged vacuum can have cyclonic suction?

I notice on the Aerus website that it says they have cyclonic suction which maintains peak airflow. How does it work? How long ago was this implemented in their vacuums?

PS: In my Epic 6500 I did vacuum up about 2/3 cup of dry rice, but I wasn't sure if I should do it with a partial full bag, or do it at the beginning, so I did it with the current bag I've been using and it seems to have helped some. I also read where you can vacuum a small amount of fresh dry coffee grounds to keep the bag from developing an odor, so I did that, and it smelled like coffee brewing while I was vacuuming.

I have always heard that coffee is good for refrigerator odors, so I thought I'd try it





Post# 185931 , Reply# 1   6/17/2012 at 08:00 (2,843 days old) by smith (North Carolina)        

If you look inside the bag chamber you will notice ridges which prevent the bag from touching the sides of the chamber. This allows the air to spin around the bag thus forming a cyclone action inside the bag. As for how long they have been like that, it has been over 30 some years.

Post# 186022 , Reply# 2   6/17/2012 at 20:13 (2,842 days old) by Trebor ()        
The cyclonic action in the bag of a canister machine was inv

Electrolux copied the concept (NOT the actual design) when the patent expired. This would have been with the model LX.

The salesmen used to have a clear plastic demo plate to put over the cloth bag. Pressing the switch on the inside of the bag cover would start the machine and stuff inside the bag would swirl.


Post# 186064 , Reply# 3   6/18/2012 at 11:27 (2,842 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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I thought that dust spins naturally in canister/tub vacuums as well though. I've seen it when I used to take the hose off my old Vax canister and watch the dust spin around in the round base. Or is that perhaps because it has a round base in which the dust flies around in circles before it finally dies down/attaches to the sides of the bag.


Post# 186195 , Reply# 4   6/18/2012 at 19:14 (2,841 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Electrolux "cyclonic action"....what a JOKE!!

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Electrolux may have invented their own form of "cyclonic action" inside a bag, but in my personal opinion, it does NOT work effectively. And I will willingly admit this, even though I am a die-hard Electrolux user. They need to just give up on this silly claim! If it REALLY worked, you wouldn't see the bags clogging prematurely, or a salesman making silly claims that sucking rice into the bag will help renew suction....which for me hasn't worked at all when I tried it. What has worked for me is taking the bag out, giving it a good vigorous shake, & putting it back in. And in this day & age, if a salesman was to say the cleaner has "cyclonic action" the customer would probably say that only a bagless vacuum is "cyclonic".

Speaking of Electrolux's "cyclonic action" though, I have heard that the metal canisters, such as the Canadian 80-series, Automatic G, LX, & the other metal canisters, have better "cyclonic action" than the plastic-bodied canisters or the metal-bodied canisters with the plastic bag containers....is this true or not??

Rob


Post# 186199 , Reply# 5   6/18/2012 at 20:25 (2,841 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
I

Dont think its a joke

Post# 186219 , Reply# 6   6/19/2012 at 02:29 (2,841 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

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I think that what was confusing me, because if it had cyclonic suction, I would think that the dirt wouldn't get stuck at the entrance of the bag. I can see how vacuuming of rice would knock some of that dirt to the back of the bag. It actually did seem to help some. Not sure how it would help doing it first thing when you put a new bag in, but later on, when the suction starts to weaken. You GOTTA try putting some coffee grounds in also, it smells good if you like the smell of coffee, plus it absorbs odors at the same time.

Post# 186221 , Reply# 7   6/19/2012 at 05:08 (2,841 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)        

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All vacuum cleaners have some form of "cyclonic action", and that's regardless if they're bagged or bagless. In a bagged vacuum cleaner, it's created by the air entering the bag in a stream of high velocity and its force pulls the areas of lower velocity back into its stream. This process repeats, but reduces as the bag is filled.

 

That said, "cyclonic action" is definitely not the same as "cyclonic seperation".   


Post# 186222 , Reply# 8   6/19/2012 at 05:24 (2,841 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Questions about Aerus vacuums and cyclonic suction

We sort of answered our own question. We use our Electrolux upstairs and it always seems like the suction is GREAT the first time I use it after a new bag is installed. I can tell the difference even by the 3rd use. Even if the bags are cheap,it seems so wasteful to keep pitching the bags just to keep the suction and airflow plus the smell from the dirt and bacteria stored in the bag.
It still works ok but seems to have lost it's EDGE and airflow.
Think about this: If we are adding rice and coffee to make it work better, what does that say about it's cyclonic suction?
Also if you can smell coffee when you turn it on what does that say about it's filtering system? Not surprising our Electrlux starts smelling bad after a few
uses.
I can tell on my new Miele,only after a week's use,it still has powerful suction but the air flow has decreased with the floor tools and the bag is only about 1/4 full at most.
You feel like you are wasting your time and just moving the dirt around.


Post# 186226 , Reply# 9   6/19/2012 at 06:17 (2,841 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
still must be working

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Because I have read posters on the forums say they picked up a used curb vacuum or something and the bag was packed completely full and as hard as a brick! It makes you wonder how that's even possible when the airflow diminishes so much when the bag isn't even nearly full. I've personally never attempted to keep vacuuming until a bag is packed full or even half full, but it does show that the bag vacuums do KEEP WORKING even though the airflow has diminished

Post# 186228 , Reply# 10   6/19/2012 at 07:03 (2,841 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Questions about Aerus vacuums

Mark,
Here is a true story about packed bags.
A friend of mine was in poor health. She had a housekeeper work for her for many years. She had a beautiful house,furniture and carpeting. It always looked very,very clean.
After she passed away, we were helping to get the house ready to sell. I did not know what type of vacuum she had so I stuck our Electrolux in the back of the car.
When I STARTED to go over her perfectly clean carpet in the family room the Lux stopped and the front opened. I thought it was just a fluke. Closed the door and started again. It stopped again. The bag was packed and so heavy.
I checked out her vacuum. She had a perfectly good Ricarr upright BUT the bag was so packed we had to use screww drivers to prey it out of the compartment. She had a HUGE supply of bags in the closet right next to the machine!
I turned the Ricarr on and sure enough it would still pick up loose fuzz and threads on the carpet and like any upright,it fluffed the rug pile. I showed the housekeeper where the supple of bags were located and when we checked in about 3 months-same situation. Bag packed full.
Just a perfect example of how a person can have a really good vacuum,they think it is picking up and really it is doing almost NOTHING.
So,I agree with your idea that a vacuum can be packed and still be picking up SOMETHING, as this was a very clean looking house and carpeting that was vacuumed every week.


Post# 186229 , Reply# 11   6/19/2012 at 07:31 (2,841 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I have used Aerus/Real Electrolux

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since the 70`s and have never ever had a problem with a decrease in suction .

It always stays the same because of the ribs inside the bag chaber which allows

suction to pass around the bag . My family and I have always used Aerus/Electrolux

and only use genuine bags .


Post# 186230 , Reply# 12   6/19/2012 at 08:19 (2,841 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Question about Aerus vacuum and cyclonic suction

Dan,
Those Electrolux's are pretty tough machines. Ours has taken a couple trips down the stairs and fell out of the truck on the cement floor(all user error!). Only damage was a few scuffs. We have replaced the hose one time in 10 years as it got crushed but still worked. Never a problem with an Electrolux bag breaking in the machine or any problems with the power nozzle connections.


Post# 186236 , Reply# 13   6/19/2012 at 09:43 (2,841 days old) by rugsucker (Elizabethton TN)        
Electrolux cyclonic action

I also feel it is not a joke from actual use as a workbench machine.Mine is a tan Mo G and is used on/off all day every day to vacuum vacuums which are never brought in clean.A common service is cleaning the WalMart Bissells and it maintains suction untill the bag has feel & weight of a similar bag of flour at the grocery.When an important part has been sucked up I have had to tear bag open and am amazed at the quantity of dust,dirt,strings,thread,hair,etc it holds.There is some decrease in suction but it keeps picking up until door opens and then bag can be changed in 4 seconds as you "see no,touch no,breathe no dust'.

Post# 186243 , Reply# 14   6/19/2012 at 11:18 (2,841 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Questions about Aerus and cyclonic suction

Jimmy,
When I was selling Electrolux during a summer break in college, I was always surprised when we would go into house after house where the customer would be using an AUTOMATIC Lux and even with the straight suction rug/foor tool would pull less dirt than many houses where they had a much better rug cleaner like a Eureka ,Hoover or Kirby. It was brought to my attention by my manager that many times customers who owned the uprights had bags just packed. The Electrolux customer was "forced" to replace the "wrapper" as Electrolux used to call it!
The result was that we sold more new Electrolux's to an Electrolux customer on the basis of the new features or attachments but an upright user would buy because the were amazed they had all that dirt in their rugs.
Always,always,always started dumping piles of dirt with just the straight suction floor tool and THEN go to the power nozzle.
No matter how much they loved their upright, they could not deny 40-50 piles of dirt on everything in the room. We did the rugs first,then floors,sofa and drapes.
Never give up on a sale until there was no place for the customer to sit down.
Back in those days we NEVER used the little dirt pads like they used today. We had a cloth bag that fit the machine for the demo.
I know you will believe this Jimmy-I have several cutomers STILL living and STILL using that same Electrolux 1205 they bought from me that summer!


Post# 186245 , Reply# 15   6/19/2012 at 11:48 (2,841 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

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I heard that Aerus genuine bags aren't even made by Aerus, but some other company makes them, which makes me wonder if the same company that makes genunie Aerus bags make the generic bags.

Post# 186248 , Reply# 16   6/19/2012 at 12:11 (2,841 days old) by Trebor ()        
Cyclonic action...

works only on particles with sufficient mass to be picked up and spun. Very light particles require very high-force cyclonic action to acquire sufficient mass so as to drop out of the air stream, cyclonic separation. Particles too heavy to be spun can be sucked up, but create resistance in the cyclone.  Fine dust will adhere to the walls of the bag due to static electricity.  Rice will help to slow down the drop in airflow, but it is not a linear relationship. A 10% reduction in airflow equates to approximately a 30% reduction in pickup power. The engineers at Electrolux showed me a quadratic equation that resulted in a parabolic graph. Suction and airflow are inter-related. The style C bag actually increases in suction until the first 25% of the bags capacity is filled. As the airflow drops off, suction increases in relative, not absolute terms, in an inverse square relationship. All of this is based upon standardized test dirt and standardized medium length, medium density plush carpet.

 

The dirt in the bag only has to be compressed a tiny fraction of an inch to allow air to slip past. Thus the bags can be packed like sugar and the machine still have some cleaning power.


Post# 186359 , Reply# 17   6/19/2012 at 18:03 (2,840 days old) by frank1002us ()        
electrolux bag

@mark
just take a bag and cut it open. you will see that there are differences in the inner material of the bag.
or better yet try tearing the bag perpendicular to it's length.

the point of the cyclonic action is to maximize the amount of the dirt in a bag without losing so much power that your cleaning becomes inefficient. the aerus machines achieve this to a certain acceptable level. expect that anything is going to work to perfection and you will be in for a rude awakening.
also how much dirt should be in a bag before changing it, has a direct relation to how much air flow is left. automatic aerus machines will let you know when you need to change the bag.
i would understand if you want to use your $5 miele bag a little longer, but dollar for dollar you will get more out of lux bag i think.








Post# 186412 , Reply# 18   6/20/2012 at 01:15 (2,840 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

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what company makes genuine Aerus bags?

Post# 186413 , Reply# 19   6/20/2012 at 01:46 (2,840 days old) by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        

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Mark, the Aerus Home Solutions bags, as well as the previous 4-ply bags, are made by a company called HOME CARE INDUSTRIES in Clifton, New Jersey. They market bags to vacuum shops under the tradename "DVC" & in normal retail stores under the tradename "HOMECARE". These bags are EXACTLY IDENTICAL to the previous Electrolux 4-ply design they discontinued in the late 1990's. Aerus has contracted with this company for decades to manufacture their bags. They also make the paper bags for Sears/Kenmore uprights & canisters as well.

Do yourself a favor & just buy the generic bags....they work just as well!

Rob


Post# 186423 , Reply# 20   6/20/2012 at 06:14 (2,840 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Gotcha

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I suspected such, but wasn't 100 percent sure.

I'm actually glad, because I bought a box of 100 on Ebay for 36.50 (I think), about a year ago when I bought my Epic 6500 so I have P L E N T Y!

I think that electrolux C bags have got to be the cheapest bags (cost wise) of any vacuum bag on the market. I don't know of any other style bag where you can buy so MANY for that cheap, which is why I don't have a problem changing them so often.


Post# 186533 , Reply# 21   6/20/2012 at 16:41 (2,839 days old) by rugsucker (Elizabethton TN)        
more of Electrolux bag story

I have no reason to disagree that US Elux & Home Care had a relationship.But on a tour of the nearby Bristol,VA Elux factory in the 90s both myself and many vac club members saw the bag line in operation.It was an impressive sight with HUGE rolls of filter liner & outer bag material moving into machines faster then you can see and coming out the other end stacked & counted for packaging.This was a modern factory used by Monroe calculators until Elux moved in about 68.They started with Mo L & B-8 and enlarging & modernising with more operations moved to Bristol until the Old Greenwich CT factory closed.--and then Aerus!

Post# 186567 , Reply# 22   6/20/2012 at 21:26 (2,839 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I also toured the plant around

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2006 and they were still making the bags right at the factory as they have always

done so from the begining .


Post# 186571 , Reply# 23   6/20/2012 at 23:03 (2,839 days old) by HooverCelebrity ()        

Pictures from my tour of the Electrolux Factory that is being discussed above... you can see the big rolls of the bag paper in one of the photos. That line wasn't up and running on the day I took the tour. :-(



CLICK HERE TO GO TO HooverCelebrity's LINK


Post# 186581 , Reply# 24   6/21/2012 at 01:41 (2,839 days old) by goadie12 ()        
@Fred

Wow those are awesome pictures thanks for sharing but I have to ask. In picture #3 there is some sort of weird looking vacuum right above the tristars do you remember what it was or have any more information about it thanks? Zach

Post# 186612 , Reply# 25   6/21/2012 at 09:14 (2,839 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

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Can't see the link? It takes me to the off topic is for donating members only. Is that link to an archived thread or something?

Post# 186623 , Reply# 26   6/21/2012 at 11:19 (2,839 days old) by Trebor ()        
Luxes on display @ Brtistol ) (Fred's trip)

The peculiar looking Tri-Star-esque vacuum is a never-sold machine called a Sun-Storm, presumably to compete with the Air-Storm.  There were many, many prototypes from the Old Greenwich plant that were simply junked. An article in a Lux magazine in 1973-74 featured pictures of many prototypes that were never produced for sale. Very, very cool looking, some of them. As a branch manager with connections to the factory I asked about these lost designs, the response: (shrug) "probably junked"


Post# 186760 , Reply# 27   6/22/2012 at 13:47 (2,837 days old) by HooverCelebrity ()        

Sorry about that! Searching the off-topic forum is something that only upgraded/paid VCCC members have the capability to do. I had forgotten that.

Here are the pictures again, though -- as they are worth having in a searchable forum.


Exterior shot of the plant.


Me with the sign.


In the lobby!


With a sign in the lobby!


Me with the lobby display of current products!


Lux Commercial Upright Assembly


Canister department -- love the racks of hoses!


Canisters on the line


Centralux Assembly!


Rolls of paper for the bags, and the bag assembly machine in the background...which I unfortunately didn't get to see running. :-(


In the warehouse.

Now for the good stuff... we finished our tour of the factory, and walked to another part of the plant, closer to the front of the building. We maybe went upstairs, and through a door into a hallway lined with these shelves -- filled with all of their cleaners! It was a narrow space, and I don't think these cleaners were all originally displayed here, perhaps they came from another facility when it was closed. Nonetheless, I got some pictures of their displays!


Display #1


Display #2


Display #3 -- by this time Electrolux had acquired Tri-Star, and I seem to recall that they were manufacturing the Tri-Star cleaners in this facility, too.


Display #4 -- Canadian Machines got billing, too!


Post# 186764 , Reply# 28   6/22/2012 at 15:14 (2,837 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Wow...thanks : D

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That would be soooo COOL to go to a vacuum cleaner factory like that! So then they DO in fact make their OWN bags. Good to know.

Post# 186914 , Reply# 29   6/23/2012 at 15:17 (2,836 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Absolutely awesome pictures. How were you so lucky to get a tour. Would love to go on one.

Post# 186938 , Reply# 30   6/23/2012 at 21:31 (2,836 days old) by kenkart ()        
The sad part is!

Im not sure...Jimmy chime in here....but I believe that big factory is now gone, moved to Mexico.

Post# 186947 , Reply# 31   6/23/2012 at 23:05 (2,836 days old) by goadie12 ()        
@fred

I am a paid member and it will not let me search off topic why is that thanks ? Zaxh

Post# 187083 , Reply# 32   6/25/2012 at 09:59 (2,835 days old) by rugsucker (Elizabethton TN)        
Bristol Electrolux factory

Good to see the pics.I had remembered the bag line as running that day but had also toured with fellow Elux employees.In the 1st pic the lobby is above the X and the last addition with the historic displays is above the 1st E.After Aerus most operations went to an existing ABLux/Eureka plant in Texas(ElPaso?).It was probably about as happy a time as Hoover to China,NC furniture factories and PA steel mills have seen.Some operations seen to be back but not like the 'good old days'.It should be said the Aerus machines are fine but when have you seen a branch or salesman??




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