Thread Number: 17076
Hoover Insight
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Post# 182809   5/27/2012 at 19:01 (2,871 days old) by motojoejo (MO)        

I saw these came out recently and have not seen any feed back on them. Has anyone seen and tried one out?

CLICK HERE TO GO TO motojoejo's LINK





Post# 182812 , Reply# 1   5/27/2012 at 19:49 (2,871 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)        

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The MSRP of these machines is practically identical to the machines that inspired its creation, the Sebo manufactured Windsor Sensor.

 

I have noticed that some retailers have begun discounting these rather heavily, so I don't know if that's a good sign. However, I am interested to hear a review from someone who has one...


Post# 182814 , Reply# 2   5/27/2012 at 20:14 (2,871 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
i've heard..

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The owner of the vac shop i go to told me they are nice machines that improved on the Sensor a in a few ways

Post# 182829 , Reply# 3   5/28/2012 at 02:04 (2,871 days old) by thevacuumman (Borger, TX)        

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I got the opportunity to use one of these at school and i think it's much better than the Windsor Versamatics they used to use

Post# 183420 , Reply# 4   5/31/2012 at 14:04 (2,867 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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They're actually illegal copies of Sebo's upright vacs that are made in China. A previous thread on here was also re-done regarding the Hoover Insight. I contacted SEBO about it and they weren't aware of the Insight and have since, I believe contacted Hoover about this illegal copy.

 

www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-...


Post# 183424 , Reply# 5   5/31/2012 at 14:17 (2,867 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

I KNOW THE ENGINEERS AND THE VP THAT CREATED THE INSIGHT WHICH IS AN EXCELLENT UPRIGHT.....THEIR IS NOTHING ILLEGAL IN ITS DESIGN OR CREATION AND NOW HOOVER CAN COMPETE WITH THIS TYPE OF UPRIGHT.....I USE MY UPRIGHT EVERY DAY IN THE SHOWROOM AND OFFICES AND ITS AWESOME .....I SELL THIS UNIT TO VARIUS CUSTOMERS REPLACING SEBO WITH NO ISSUES AND MY CUSTOMERS ARE THRILLED WITH THE VAC......AS A HOOVER COMMERCIAL PRODUCT DISTRIBUTOR INSIGHT SALES ARE SOLID AND GROWING AND HOOVER IS MAKING INROADS IN THIS GENRE....

Post# 183426 , Reply# 6   5/31/2012 at 14:19 (2,867 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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That may well be but the buttons and the design ARE THE SAME as SEBO's X1. Therefore it is a clear infringement. Hoover should know better - they have dealt with SEBO before where some of their commercial vacuums are concerned. The Insight is not part of that deal.


Post# 183465 , Reply# 7   5/31/2012 at 22:14 (2,867 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

speculation and generalizations are not fact......i was there for its creation and Hoover simply did what the industry and the comercial consumer was asking for and did a marvelous job.....hoover always gives their consumer what it wants....as does sebo....so get over it.....

Post# 183506 , Reply# 8   6/1/2012 at 03:29 (2,867 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

didn't TTI-Hoover get into trouble with Dyson when Hoover made a close copy of the Dyson cyclonic filtration system?Beleive this happened a few years ago-Hoover had to withdraw their version from the market to avoid a lawsuit from Dyson.So guess that Hoover model would be of interest to collectors now.The Hoover Insight is sure a close "representation" of the Sebo.Does sound like an interesting machine to try.

Post# 183507 , Reply# 9   6/1/2012 at 03:42 (2,867 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

That was the Hoover Vortex. Yes, it was taken off sale about 1999. I don't think it was a popular seller anyway though. I have often wondered what happened to the cleaners which they were not allowed to sell.

Post# 183510 , Reply# 10   6/1/2012 at 04:53 (2,867 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
"...Hoover simply did what the industry and the comercia

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Well there's no speculation - it's general fact! SEBO already have had a look at an Insight and they're not happy. Infact as far as I'm aware, there will be court action, probably small enough for Hoover to retract the machine. It's not just the buttons, but the whole body style is like an X1/Sensor update. 

 

Yes, VR, the Hoover company seem to be one of those companies who are forever in dispute with someone else. Miele took Hoover to court over some suction claim a few years back. Hoover also got into trouble with Vax in the early 1990s/1980s with the Vax wash head patent. Hoover claimed the design was their own on the Aquajet tubs and had to promptly change the brochure's wording. Just because customers want something, doesn't give companies the right to market something that isn't their own to market. 


Post# 183512 , Reply# 11   6/1/2012 at 05:08 (2,867 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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@ vintage repairer , the vacuums they arent' allowed to retail will be shiped to another country and sold there. Patents are not world wide you have to take them out in any country you wish to sell your product in.

 

As for the insight looking like a sebo,  in the same way that all 4x4's look the same and all semi trucks look the same. The insight is a answer to a customers need , customers want the design with those features so they make it so, Karcher , Ivac lindhuas , advance , nilfisk , wap , they all based there upright designs on the origional sebo from the 70's , twin motor , built in hose, then the single motors models came out and every one based there vacuums on that, 

 

If you want to get technical , and Petty then Hoover should sue every manufacturer out there as all uprigh vacuums are based on their  original idea of a suction motor and a beater bar with a handle for easy movement 


Post# 183518 , Reply# 12   6/1/2012 at 05:38 (2,867 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
If you want to get Petty with Hoover...

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Thing is though, I think several manufacturers already went down the route with Hoover in the early days. Wasn't this the reason that other brands rebadged their own names on Hoover products to avoid "old day" legalities? 


Post# 183521 , Reply# 13   6/1/2012 at 05:46 (2,867 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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No not really , Hoover was the best in those days , nothing to compete with it so when you needed a vacuum in your appliance range and didn't want to spend all the time designing your own just get one from hoover and badge it as your own, kinda what sebo also did 


Post# 183527 , Reply# 14   6/1/2012 at 06:57 (2,867 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
i started a previous thread on this vac

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I have seen them on the web recently far cheaper than MSRP....see link for old thread.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 183582 , Reply# 15   6/1/2012 at 13:21 (2,866 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Wow thats sounds rather

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magical Sebo fan , Yesterday Sebo had not seen the Insight and today theres a law suit on its way and they are pissed . Hmmmm that was quick you must be super powerful , Puleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ! You don`t think Hoover has lawyers and has checked into everything to make sure they wont get sued ? The Insight looks way better than a Sebo ever did .

Post# 183588 , Reply# 16   6/1/2012 at 13:46 (2,866 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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Here is the thing, I have worked in R&D for a few company's There is no way that sebo didn't know about the insight.Industrial espionage is rife amongst company's They know everything about each others designs long before they have been launched. You have to get moulds made for the injection mould machines and Ul tested , everywhere there is the possibility of leaked info. All of the vacuum company's have sample models of the competitions machines.

 

When I worked for Electrolux SA back in the day they had a whole massive room filled with every model and make of vacuum around the world. 


Post# 183637 , Reply# 17   6/1/2012 at 15:36 (2,866 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

Here's a video on the insight on YouTube.

It does have a few improvements on the Sebo/Windsor but I doubt it is as well made.
The man demonstrating it does explain that Hoover have been able to use a similar design due to patents
expiring, but it doesn't seem right to me that another company can so closely copy another manufacturers design, even though it may be perfectly legal if certain patents have expired.

I wonder if we will get it in the UK under the Vax brand. If we do, I can't see Sebo UK being very happy about it.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sensotronic's LINK


Post# 183641 , Reply# 18   6/1/2012 at 16:10 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Kirbyloverdan - if you look at the previous thread strictlybojack has supplied here, you'll see I contacted SEBO about the Insight on the 27th of February 2012. I have no doubt that the Hoover version looks better than the Sebo version, but then I thought my Dirt Devil "Hoover Turbopower 2" looked better than my own collections of Hoover Turbopower 2/3 models - the difference is, Dirt Devil got permission from Hoover to license the design. Hoover hasn't been given license from SEBO to market the X series as their own.

 

Let's not get carried away with what looks better - the fact is, the Insight is a copy.


Post# 183642 , Reply# 19   6/1/2012 at 16:11 (2,866 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

well, Sebo seems to do it right, why change something that works. I'd be reluctant to buy something that looks like a sebo. I'd rather have the real thing

Post# 183643 , Reply# 20   6/1/2012 at 16:16 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Precisely!


Post# 183649 , Reply# 21   6/1/2012 at 16:23 (2,866 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

SEBO FAN SOUNDS LIKE HE EITHER WORKS FOR SEBO OR LIKES MAKE UP STORIES THAT MAGICALLY FIT HIS OPINION OF THE MOMENT......I TESTED THE INSIGHT PROTOTYPE WITH MY HOOVER COMMERCIAL SALES REP AND WAS ONE OF THEFIRST TO TRY THE INITIAL PRODUCTION OF THE UNIT

Post# 183650 , Reply# 22   6/1/2012 at 16:28 (2,866 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

i'm sure you were but like I said, why by something that looks like a sebo when you can have the real thing for not a lot more with guaranteed reliability. Sebo have proven there design over 30 years. I'd rather buy something thats tried and tested rather than hoovers 'own version'

Post# 183652 , Reply# 23   6/1/2012 at 16:44 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Sensotronic - thanks for the link! I like the Go-Vacuums site but already in the first couple of seconds, the guy demonstrating says that Hoover are working "around" patents that have expired - and improving on design issues from the Windsor/Sebo G2. One of them being a replaceable cord and that the cord on a Windsor would have to be replaced by buying an entire handle and cord. Well, that's not quite true based on the fact that there are videos showing how to stitch/thread in a new power cord into the existing handle of a Sebo X1. Evidently the U.S aren't privy to that little design feature of the original model...

 

Next up, the Insight sounds like a Windsor/X/G2 but seems to be a lot noisier, also helped by the noise level that the guy tests in the video at 80 or so dbl. 80 dbl is really noisy compared to Sebo's original 67 to 71dbl.

 

I do like the top electronic "dash" located at the top of the vacuum though but it only brings a "new" indicator to change the filter, which frankly I feel is rather pointless. The Germans have made it simpler - when you check the whole system of air flow through the vacuum and there's a new bag, it's the filters that need to be changed - no LED needed there - if suction is low.

 

The Chevron roller is a direct copy and Hoover have even gone to the bother of putting the same metal strip at the front of the floor head whilst the brush height manual control dial is also copied from the G2. The bottom hose removal at the base plate is also far more time consuming - the original SEBO's trapdoor is easier to spot blockages and pull them out rather than fit a removable hose that could get lost over time.

 

The grab handle has been taken off the older SEBO uprights though and would be in no way better to handle or pull out for use than the current wand with a proper handle. 

 

My goodness me, when all things are considered Hoover have really done themselves proud with a machine that "took 5 years to make." 5 years? Blimey does it take that long to copy a design that has been out since the late 1970's?

 

 

GUARDSMAN - I don't work for SEBO but I'm a collector of their machines. I'm sure you'd have the same reaction if another brand came out with a Hoover Convertible and tried to slate the original. How would you feel then? Not so cock-sure then I'd hasten to add!

 

As for making up stories - um, not quite. Just because you've sat in with your VP and whatever doesn't make this copied vacuum the best OR original. As Ry-Ry states, the 30 years of experience Sebo have put into their X series machines is worldwide - Hoover's Insight is still relatively new and it hardly brings anything new to an existing owner of a SEBO G2/X inspired models or Windsor uprights.

 


Post# 183656 , Reply# 24   6/1/2012 at 16:51 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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As for the paper bag in the Hoover - well the plastic cover seal is a good idea but then that's been copied from Bosch. 

 

Ryan, that reminds me - have you tried any of the synthetic dust bags for the X? I find them longer lasting and better filtration.


Post# 183657 , Reply# 25   6/1/2012 at 16:54 (2,866 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

No? Didn't know they existed lol

Post# 183658 , Reply# 26   6/1/2012 at 16:59 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Oh ok. Watch your email then!


Post# 183660 , Reply# 27   6/1/2012 at 17:08 (2,866 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

THAT IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A FLAWLESS DEMONSTRATION OF AN EXCEPTIONAL HOOVER INSIGHT UPRIGHT WITH ALL THE REASONS WHY IT IS BETTER THAN WINDSOR......HOOVER SIMPLY AND ALWAYS GIVES THE CONSUMERS WHAT THEY WANT FOR 105 YEARS.....I USE MY INSIGHT EVERYDAY IN MY SHOWROOM AND OFFICES AND IT IS AWESOME.........SEBO....SOUR GRAPES......HOOVER IS CATCHING UP......BUT JUST REMEMBER HOOVER INVENTED THE COMMERCIAL VACUUM CLEANER INDUSTRY BACK IN THE 1920S AND AS WITH EVERYTHING IN THE VACUUM INDUSTRY.....HOOVER DID IT EVEN IN SCOTLAND

Post# 183663 , Reply# 28   6/1/2012 at 17:14 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Please don't try and pass off your sales technique to me. If the Insight is still available in 30 years time, then maybe it will be worth checking out. Frankly, I don't think it will last that long, but then that's my opinion.

 

And as for your Hoover company - HOOVER U.S let HOOVER UK go when they couldn't pay off the air miles campaign and the Hoover U.S company weren't alone in making competitions of their products, themselves. Don't start trying to say Hoover were perfect = they were anything but and thanks to the U.S company, the U.K company isn't half of what they used to be when they had the home company behind them. 

 

Hats off to Hoover for introducing the commercial vacuum cleaner - whatever- it still doesn't justify copying another brand directly with a machine that looks like a SEBO, even worse that Hoover should go and paint it black so that it looks like the Ensign Stealth, another commercial variant upright that SEBO builds.


Post# 183666 , Reply# 29   6/1/2012 at 17:41 (2,866 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

I DO NOT NEED A HISTORY LESSON ON HOW HOOVER EUROPE WAS LOST BECAUSE I LIVED IT BEING A HOOVER DEALER FOR 35 YEARS AND AS FOR YOUR OPINION THAT IS YOURS AND EVERY ONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIRS......OOPS I AM IN AMERICA WHERE WE ARE FREE TO EXPRESS THEM ...AND TO ANSWER COLLECTORS QUESTIONS WITH ACTUAL FACTS AND KNOWLEDGE INSTEAD OF FANTASY AND SPECULATION IS HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE....UNLESS I SEE A SEBO PAY CHECK STUB WITH YOU NAME ON IT POSTED ON THIS LINK THEN WE SHOULD LISTEN TO YOU ANSWER.......SUCK THAT UP IN YOUR SEBO AND FILTER IT.....I WILL RUN MY HOOVER INSIGHT AND DO YOU ONE BETTER

Post# 183670 , Reply# 30   6/1/2012 at 17:49 (2,866 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

PS SEBO BOY MAYTAG SOLD THE EUROPEAN DIVISION OF HOOVER TO CANDY FOR HOOVER WAS A DIVISION OF MAYTAG BY THEN.....ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE..........

Post# 183672 , Reply# 31   6/1/2012 at 17:58 (2,866 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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I can see the similarity's in the two units but face FACTS there are only so many ways o design a product. If customers needs dictate it then it is more than acceptable that the machines will end up looking similar. 

Look at cell phones , they all look prety much the same these days because the user dictates it. 

 

Look atthese two machines side by side and they actually have less in comon with there styling than you may think, the hoover even looks bigger , the hose is similar but then show me a twin motor upright that doesn't have its hose coming out the top of the bag housing. 

 

Has anyone got both these units. 


Post# 183673 , Reply# 32   6/1/2012 at 18:00 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well if you don't need a history lesson, cease making statements that aren't thought out before you put them here. Yes you are in the U.S, and I'm in the U.K where we have a democracy too. Yet, you seem to think Hoover have a unique concept here and I'm sorry, when you look at the FACTS not the facts that you learnt when the Insight was being made, designed, and then launched, it isn't a unique product and it isn't a unique design. Also....

 

  1. If Hoover are "making inroads with this kind of genre," what about all the other commercial uprights Hoover have sold?
  2. "There is nothing illegal in its design or its creation." Well, actually it is from the points I've raised and from others who have since contributed.

Clearly then you're a dealer, you're used to selling and you'll find every excuse in the book to iron over with a fleeting statement that may be based on existing facts to suit your own belief. I'm an owner, I don't need convincing and I don't need to convince anyone. Crawl into your own SEBO COPIED dust bag and eat humble pie.

 

Giving advice to collectors is one aspect of this forum I appreciate and sharing ideas and info is another - you seem to forget this- slating other members on here because of their experience and knowledge is perhaps not the best way to go when the facts and evidence prove you wrong - and ultimately make you look a bit false - a bit like the Insight vacuum itself - isn't it also made in China, a country that seems to be unfairly treated with prejudice by Americans because they want home-grown products?

 


Post# 183677 , Reply# 33   6/1/2012 at 18:08 (2,866 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

THERE IS NOTHING FALSE ABOUT ME SWEETHEART.....FURTHERMORE STOP TRASHING AMERICA BECAUSE YOU ARE ON AN AMERICAN VACUUM CLEANER FORUM AS I SIT HERE DOING MY BOOKS AND WATCHING SOMEONE WHO LIKES TO ATTACK PEOPLE FOR KNOWING MORE THAN THEY DO IS SAD SO SEBO BOY WATCH YOUR MOUTH GET A LIFE AND FIND SOMETHING BETTER OR MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO WITH YOUR TIME THEN DEFENDING A VACUUM CLEANER THAT CLEARLY IS WHAT IT IS ....FOR IF IT WAS NOT FOR HOOVER YOU WOULD HAVE NO VACUUM CLEANER INDUSTRY AND YOU WOULD BE BEATING YOUR RUGS WITH A STICK IN YOUR BACKWOODS HOVEL...

Post# 183684 , Reply# 34   6/1/2012 at 18:18 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Sweetheart?? I'm not trashing America -I'm just reacting to your statements. Infact if you read several of my older posts you'll find I'm a fan of most American products and things. Of course you probably haven't bothered to check  - Assumption is the mother of muck ups - and really, there isn't a need to be so abrasive - unless of course you are losing your battle to get your opinion across. As for your Hoover history, have you ever heard of Goblin? Check them on Wikipedia, you might be surprised.

 

 


Post# 183691 , Reply# 35   6/1/2012 at 18:50 (2,866 days old) by HooverCelebrity ()        

OK BOYS!

 

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Post# 183692 , Reply# 36   6/1/2012 at 18:51 (2,866 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()        

This post has been removed by the webmaster.



Post# 183776 , Reply# 37   6/2/2012 at 07:10 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Ry - I sent you an email - if you want the spare 2 I've got I'll happily send them to you.


Post# 183778 , Reply# 38   6/2/2012 at 07:20 (2,866 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        

turbomaster1984's profile picture
Sebofan

Where did you find the Synthetic dustbags from? Might try to source some to try in my X1.

Thats if I can prize my hands away from the Lux Glider at the min lol.

Rob


Post# 183782 , Reply# 39   6/2/2012 at 07:37 (2,866 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Um.. sorry Rob, they are now gone - Ry sent me his address. The bags came from Sebo in Germany - they're not on the market to sell yet. If I get any more I'll let you know.


Post# 183784 , Reply# 40   6/2/2012 at 08:06 (2,866 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        

turbomaster1984's profile picture
No worries,

Reckon its worth me emailing Sebo and asking? Have a contact there that I was in touch with last year about a few ideas I had to develop the x.1's.

Funily enough one of those ideas seems to have come to fruitition and is now on the Sebo website.


Post# 183789 , Reply# 41   6/2/2012 at 08:41 (2,865 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        
sebo Ultra synthetic bags

The synthetic bags are available in Germany for the X uprights and C cylinders, or at least the HEPA box is which includes the filters.

I've just bought a new airbelt cover for my K cylinder and Felix shoulder strap from Amazon de and they arrived as quickly as an order from Amazon UK. I think I will order the HEPA box for the Professional G I'm getting, even though the exhaust filter won't fit it.

I've noticed that a HEPA filter has been available for some time for the X series but Sebo UK don't offer it as yet.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sensotronic's LINK


Post# 183790 , Reply# 42   6/2/2012 at 08:44 (2,865 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture

I did not know you get synthetic bags for the sebo's , thanx for the heads up sebofan, I will ask my rep why we don't have them here in SA


Post# 183793 , Reply# 43   6/2/2012 at 08:53 (2,865 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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You could just buy the Windsor HEPA filter from the U.S - SEBO have tested the HEPA cartridge and apparently weren't happy with it - I would try it though it if I could, so thanks for that link sensotronic. I have just emailed you, TF.

 

The bags shown on that Amazon.de site show a paper bag - or white paper bag that I got when I bought my new X4 last year.This is a synthetic one similar to electret Felix bags:

 

 

 

 


Post# 183794 , Reply# 44   6/2/2012 at 09:00 (2,865 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Guys n Gals - these are not "officially" available to buy yet. 


Post# 183795 , Reply# 45   6/2/2012 at 09:09 (2,865 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

Oh yes, I can see it isn't synthetic now I look at it again. The ultra bag seems a step up from the regular paper bags available for the X series though. I don't think I'll bother with the HEPA filter for my Professional G as I find the standard filtration to be satisfactory.

I am using the synthetic bags in my Felix and find them much better than the paper ones, but when I had my Sebo D2 Storm that uses synthetic bags, I found that there was a fair bit of dust in the bag compartment, something I never see in my Miele cleaners.


Post# 183797 , Reply# 46   6/2/2012 at 09:25 (2,865 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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mm that is strange. The bags in my D2 are usually quite full before needing to be changed. I guess it depends on the kind of dust you're lifting up, plus counteracting the big seal/dust hole at the top. 

 

I tend to use the charcoal filter in my X models but have also used the micro filter on occasion. 


Post# 183816 , Reply# 47   6/2/2012 at 11:08 (2,865 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

I never owned my D2 for long enough to fill the bag to capacity. The dust in the bag compartment was mainly located in the area directly beneath the hose inlet so I guess that's the area that gets the full force of air entering the bag allowing some fine dust to get through and I could see a dirty patch on the underside of the bag. I had no doubt that the other two filters would prevent any dust escaping, but I was a little surprised that visible dust had passed through. In the old days of single layer paper bags, this was common, but it's something I rarely see now with the cleaners I use regularly.

I couldn't get on with my D2 Storm but I will still be getting a D4 Premium. I hope the upholstery nozzle doesn't keep falling out of it's holder like it did with my Storm.


Post# 183934 , Reply# 48   6/2/2012 at 15:24 (2,865 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Contact SEBO about the nozzle falling off the back. It happened to me also - they sent out a slightly redesigned nozzle free of charge. I didn't like the all stainless steel tubing either and though lighter than the ones Miele sell for their canister vacs, I bought a replacement K series tube for use instead - that way I can slide on a clamp and put the "small cleaning tool" of choice on, or use Sebo's larger triangular dusting brush if the default one supplied isn't sufficient to needs - plus the plastic/metal tubes are far lighter and easier to handle.


Post# 184573 , Reply# 49   6/6/2012 at 17:52 (2,861 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)        
More models are coming...

piano_god's profile picture
Three more models of the Insight are to be released soon that will feature brushless motors (what Hoover calls "MagnaTorque"). Two of those will have a LCD screen that will assist in routine maintenance of the machine, or assist in the diagnosis of the vacuum should it require repair.

To my knowledge, these will be the first uprights to use brushless motors. Because of that, I think I'll have to add one of these to my collection!


Post# 184664 , Reply# 50   6/7/2012 at 09:19 (2,860 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

apparently synthetic bags are available here ;) ….

CLICK HERE TO GO TO ryry_87's LINK on eBay


Post# 184680 , Reply# 51   6/7/2012 at 11:31 (2,860 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        

It's a shame those bags aren't genuine Sebo Ryan. I think I'd rather use the genuine paper bags until Sebo hopefully decide to launch the synthetic ones. I think they should offer both types of bag so the consumer can decide if they want to pay a bit extra for the fabric bags. Perhaps they could fit new cleaners with the original bag and offer the synthetic bag as the spare so buyers can try both types.

I got my Sebo G1 Professional from Germany yesterday and I could not be more thrilled. After owning four Automatic X machines and being disappointed with the auto height adjustment, the manual height control on the G1 has turned this cleaner into the proper deep cleaner it should be. It brings up the pile better than the automatic machines but is still easy to push. I use setting two for all my carpets which are the same through out the house and setting one on high traffic areas.

This is one Sebo upright of mine that will not end up on Ebay.


Post# 184716 , Reply# 52   6/7/2012 at 19:22 (2,860 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Senso - did you just swap the handles over or just rethread the German plug?


Post# 184757 , Reply# 53   6/8/2012 at 05:43 (2,860 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        
German Plug

As I no longer have any of the X models I couldn't swap the handle. I thought about buying a replacement handle and flex or just the flex, but I went for the cheaper option and used a Schuko to UK plug adaptor.

I used one of these on the Miele stick vac I brought back from Budapest and it works fine, though it is a bit bulkier than a regular 13amp plug.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sensotronic's LINK on eBay


Post# 184784 , Reply# 54   6/8/2012 at 14:29 (2,859 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

How novel! I never thought such a plug adaptor existed!


Post# 184790 , Reply# 55   6/8/2012 at 15:15 (2,859 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

They are very common on home entertainment equipment these days, I know Sony are very keen to make goods with 2-pin plugs for all countries and fit one of these converter plugs for products destined for the UK. But there are a good deal of products on sale in the UK which have a none-UK plug and a converter like this. There are also at least three variations. The slimmest style of all is for the flat 2-pin plugs and the larger fitting as you saw in that link accommodates the plugs with larger footprint. Not all offer earthing though as you saw there. So for an earthed plug an appropriate converter is called for.

I can't help but wonder why if so many electrical goods made for the UK market are capable of having a UK 3-pin plug, why they don't all have them and why the manufacturer chooses to go down the route of converting 2-pin plugs.


Post# 184856 , Reply# 56   6/9/2012 at 02:51 (2,859 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Roger (Sensotronic) said: "I couldn't get on with my D2 Storm but I will still be getting a D4 Premium. I hope the upholstery nozzle doesn't keep falling out of it's holder like it did with my Storm."

Ryan (Sebo_fan) said: "Contact SEBO about the nozzle falling off the back. It happened to me also - they sent out a slightly redesigned nozzle free of charge."

Thanks, now I know I'm not alone! My Sebo (Airbelt D4 Premium) also keeps dropping the upholstery nozzle. It hasn't been enough to make me complain about it yet (I just got it at the beginning of the year), but now that I know what to tell my dealer, I will. I've been meaning to take the machine to the dealer to be fixed anyway, every once in a while it howls, so there must be some kind of air leaking in there, but it's working well most of the time so it hasn't been a priority, but I'll deal with it soon.


Post# 184863 , Reply# 57   6/9/2012 at 05:35 (2,859 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

 

There's actually a way in which the nozzle should lock into the recess at the back of the machine. It will click into place when using the neck to fit the corresponding curve.

 

Check the "Star Trek" (as I call it as it looks like a large conduit door) back filter on the rear of the machine and the front filter under the bin lid. My D2 used to howl a lot until I realised the filters had not been locked onto the fixings properly. This then creates an obvious seal escape bit in the filter design as it locks to the machine when you turn it or when the bin lid is closed over - sometimes not locking at all because the filter hasn't been locked into its paths properly. 


Post# 184883 , Reply# 58   6/9/2012 at 10:27 (2,858 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture

Vintage repairer , its cheaper to add a converter.

 

IN SA we have 2 pin and 3 pin plugs. most company's now produce things with the 2 pin plug.

 

If they have to manufacure a appliance with a 3 pin plug it means a seperate production run just for that country and that means its a break in normal production. That means a rise in production costs. 2 pin plugs have a wider market.


Post# 184886 , Reply# 59   6/9/2012 at 11:15 (2,858 days old) by motojoejo (MO)        

If I had known that this topic would have caused such a stir then I would have never posted.

The same thing has been going on the in the piano industry for over 150 years. Classic example is that of Steinway and Young Chang. When Young Chang came out with the model PG 213, Steinway looked at the scale and found it remarkable similar to the Steinway model B. The most notable difference was the case was 1" longer but the scale of the piano inside was a basic copy of the Steinway B. The icing on the cake was the designer of the PG 213 was a designer that use to work at Steinway. This caused a huge uproar with Steinway. Young Chang defended its self with showing the design being truly different. How different? The thickness of an American dime. Steinway couldn't touch Young Chang for so many reasons beyond what I'm willing to explain.

Flat out copying has been going on for decades in the the piano realm from pedals to duplex scaling to action ratios so it's no surprise it happened to Sebo and Hoover. Copyrights and patents are tricky things and you'd surprised what one can get away with. After all we wouldnt have the modern piano today is makers didn't try to copy the best features of their competitor.



Post# 184909 , Reply# 60   6/9/2012 at 15:48 (2,858 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello Gary. Well I did think it might have been a cost issue, but then I also considered that if we can buy appliances here in the UK for under £5, things like kettles, kitchen appliances and so on and so forth, why do they not have continental plugs with euro converter plugs too? Pretty much they all come with a screw down reusable plug. It does seem to only be the more expensive appliances which have converter plugs, as I mentioned Sony, which is more or less a premium brand over here. I am not suggesting at all that you are wrong and if anything I think you are right, its costs, I just don't understand why the cheapest appliances of all don't use them.

Post# 184912 , Reply# 61   6/9/2012 at 15:57 (2,858 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture

Vintage repairer 

YOU have a point , here is why 

You will find they are changed at the depot in the UK, we do the same here with kettles and toasters that come with the UK 3 pin plug, we just cut it off and change it here or fit a SA moulded plug and cord , its cheaper to do it here than it is to set up a separate production line in the factory 

 

Kettles & toaster have to be earthed but tv's dvd players and hifi's dont. 

 

When I was still working for Electrolux having the machines fitted at the factory with a 3 prong moulded plug would raise the cost per unit by £ 1 - £ 5 pounds especially if it was cylinder vacuum as the cord winder would need to be beefed up to handle the extra weight. Now this may not sound like allot but when you are importing 1.5 million units a year that is £1.5 million more capital laid out just to have a 3 prong plug.    


Post# 184915 , Reply# 62   6/9/2012 at 16:14 (2,858 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello again. Thank you for your reply. Would it not be cheaper to attach a converter plug in the UK than go to the bother of cutting off a 2-pin plug, stripping and capping the wires, and fitting the plug?

Post# 184916 , Reply# 63   6/9/2012 at 16:25 (2,858 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture

HI Benny 

converter plugs are normally rather expensive were as the screw on ones are not. Other than that Im not sure to be honest :) 

Gareth 


Post# 184982 , Reply# 64   6/10/2012 at 05:44 (2,858 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Um, what about safety tests on those converter plugs? I can see why the cord was cut to make it safer if the company couldn't afford to carry out tests with the plugs.

 

As for pianos, well it's not just that instrument that copying exists in - sadly it's the way of the world - one manufacturer will come out with something and the next rival brand will do the same, even going as far as copying the look to confuse the buyer. Thanks largely to the internet though, and if you are prepared to spend the time to research the models/products, if you want an original article you have to put a bit extra work in. 

 

As a wind player and pianist, I've seen lots of copies over the years and I don't mind what an instrument looks like generally - it's like a bottle of wine, they're all the same until you try it and if the quality, body, taste and feel is different, then you go with what makes you smile.

 

Sadly I'm not a fan of Steinway pianos. I think largely they're overhyped for what they represent and like "Scotch Tape," everyone knows them by brand. If I was to go down the luxury route, it would be Bosendorfer for me every time  - the grand daddy of them all where ostentatiousness is concerned, but still well made and still has a excellent feel when played.

 

Other brands I like are Baldwin pianos - I've played a couple of those and the styles are simple but the performance is pretty good, replacing the English piano brand Kemble who used to be very good but no longer make pianos anymore.

 

My "daily" driver is an old English Bentley piano which I teach on, the grand piano in my living room however is a Japanese Kawai which is just perfect for what I need it to do and I have a couple of Yamaha home keyboards. I did shop around a lot when it came to trying out pianos, and whilst Yamaha make great wind instruments and keyboards, some of their pianos weren't as good at the time as my Kawai.


Post# 185208 , Reply# 65   6/11/2012 at 18:11 (2,856 days old) by Rolls_rapide (-)        

There is another problem with 2-pin plugs as opposed to 3-pin: that of polarity.

A 2-pin plug can be inserted into the socket (or converter plug) either way, allowing the neutral wire to be connected to the live terminal of the socket, thereby allowing the appliance to become live when it shouldn't be.

A 3-pin plug can only be inserted one way, therefore maintains correct polarity.


Post# 185210 , Reply# 66   6/11/2012 at 18:29 (2,856 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I think the whole idea of the UK 13amp plug is far superior to the two pin style we see used in other parts of the world. As you point out Rolls, our plugs allow for correct polarity if the wiring has been installed correctly. The only thing I like about plugs made for other countries is the way the lead is attached at the front and not the bottom. I can think of a good deal of appliances which would be a lot better if the lead came from the front, not least a vacuum cleaner where an accidental tug on the mains lead would remove the plug from socket in one move, instead of bending the plug and possibly breaking the wall socket. I have seen many a cracked wall socket in my years.

Post# 185211 , Reply# 67   6/11/2012 at 18:51 (2,856 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

A cracked wall socket is exactly what happened when my Miele S6 didn't go long enough.


Post# 185603 , Reply# 68   6/15/2012 at 11:56 (2,852 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

Ryan - the bag turned up today so cheers for that its going in my Stealth 1 since I use that the most

Roger - can you start another thread about your G1 or add it to my commercial vacs / vintage sebo ones, would love to see it!


Post# 185701 , Reply# 69   6/15/2012 at 20:12 (2,852 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Pleased you got the bag. I bought the other ones you supplied the link to but they're not the same - these copy ones have a shinier, thinner cartridge at the top, mimicking the kinds of plastic ones you get on copy paper bags for the X. No caps came with them either and they look like they could pull away from the cartridge once the bag gets progressively heavier. Once my Xs start to fill up and require changing, I'll let you know about the performance of those copy synthetics.


Post# 185748 , Reply# 70   6/15/2012 at 23:56 (2,852 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire)        
Sebo G1

I'll post some pictures of the G1 in a couple of weeks. I am currently staying at my Mum's in York looking after her house/dogs while she's on holiday.

It's my birthday today and I will soon be getting up and opening my new Sebo D4 Premium which is a joint present from my Mum and partner. I'll be posting pictures of that this week.


Post# 185803 , Reply# 71   6/16/2012 at 05:38 (2,852 days old) by ryry_87 ()        

your mum and partner are amazing lol couldn't see my mum or partner willing to contribute to my collection any time soon lol

Post# 186444 , Reply# 72   6/20/2012 at 10:39 (2,847 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture

Oh I don't know, some mothers are good to have. Mine bought me my Mini Mac last year and I ended up buying her a rather expensive hand bag at the equivalent price!





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