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Popularity of uprights
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Post# 181041   5/14/2012 at 18:04 (2,885 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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I was wondering about this earlier. It seems to me that uprights are very popular these days. Almost everyone I know with the exception of a few people has an upright, and often when I go to estate sales I see uprights.

This could be a regional thing, but I think it has more to do with convenience. When I was a kid, my mother did most of the cleaning with a vacuum, but I know a lot of people don't and aren't so picky about the housecleaning. Many people vacuum only the carpet and sweep the hard floors and dust furniture once in a while with a wet cloth. I can see how uprights can be more convenient in that scenario as there are less parts to deal with and move around and they store more easily, but I prefer a canister. I have both canisters and uprights, but when I want to do a thorough cleaning and do it quickly, I go for a canister.

Another reason I can see for uprights' popularity is that they are more common in the stores and they are typically much cheaper than canisters that have a powered brushroll. Kmart and Sears are the only stores in my area that sell many canisters. Walmart has none, unless you count the Shark lift-off style vacuum.

Of course I realize too that people have their own preferences on machines, and that's fine too, but it just seems that most people in general who aren't collectors have uprights these days, and I wonder if that is something that's been true for many years.





Post# 181047 , Reply# 1   5/14/2012 at 18:37 (2,885 days old) by godfreys_guy (Melbourne, Australia)        
Interesting..

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I think you will find its manufacturer driven. In Australia, in the early 90's uprights dried up here and it has become a canister saturated market. The main manufacturers here that still retail uprights are:
Miele
Vax
Dyson
Kirby
Bissell

Most of the manufacturers other than the above either only make 1-2 models (including Hoover) and even then, hide them in the back of the range. When I worked for the main retailer of cleaning appliances we had only 5 domestic uprights and in excess of 30 domestic canisters!

I think that Dyson and Vax would be the only ones who actually make a dent in the market with uprights, i know where I work now - 50% or more of my customers leave with a DC41 or DC33 in hand :)

It's all very disappointing because power brushes aren't all that common here and as such most machines are straight suction and we all know how good that is for carpets. To get a power-brush machine here you are looking at the Vax zen $599, Dyson DC23 motorhead $898, Miele $1099, Sauber (lux) $1499 so you can see that they are not in most peoples pricing range.


Post# 181122 , Reply# 2   5/15/2012 at 09:48 (2,885 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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In Europe it differs from country to country. Some countries prefer canisters only to uprights. The UK seems to have a split share but we're only beginning to get other brands now with PN heads on canisters. Wertheim only came here last year (or may have been the year before) with their PN canister. Miele and SEBO have dominated the market here for canisters with PN's but they're not a big seller compared to the uprights.

Post# 181129 , Reply# 3   5/15/2012 at 09:59 (2,885 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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This is so funny I was just thinking about this today aswell.

In the end it comes down to user preference and allot to do with what your mom used when you grew up to according to research, 

 

I for one prefer an upright due to its better cleaning of carpets over a standard cylinder vacuum. 

If you fit a PN to a cylinder you get the same performance but for me I can not figure out why you would want to fit a great big heavy PN to the end of a heavy hose( with power cables in it )  and then still drag the machine around behind you when you could simply use an upright.

This is my personal view though and I am not knocking any cylinder with a PN I just don't understand it, Not these fays in any case when most uprights have on board hoses anyway.

 

Just My view on an interesting Topic 


Post# 181151 , Reply# 4   5/15/2012 at 11:05 (2,885 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I can't speak for everyone (if I did sebo_fan would have a field day) but here is why I prefer uprights:

- Everything is on the cleaner (hose, tubes, nozzles etc...)
- Most of them glide over carpets easier than "scrubbing" with a straight suction cylinder's floor nozzle
- Wider cleaning head in most cases, thus quicker cleaning
- The bags can be more than double the size, likewise for Bagless bins
- Brush rolls beat the carpet opposed to a cylinder's straight suction nozzle just scrubbing it, as aforementioned
- These days uprights tend to have lower wattage motors compared to cylinders, completely paradoxical to what you'd think but oh well...


Post# 181155 , Reply# 5   5/15/2012 at 11:12 (2,885 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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"la-la-la sticks fingers into ears, does an Evita and turns a blind eye..."

Post# 181248 , Reply# 6   5/15/2012 at 19:12 (2,884 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH)        
In the 70's and 80's I always had a ......

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Upright for carpet and a straight suction canister for hard surface floors and above floor cleaning. I would always us the canister first and then put it away and then finish with the upright.

Now things seem to have changed for me. I seem to only use the uprights for a quick pick up in between thorough cleanings. For a thorough cleaning I seem to pick a canister. Partly due to the style condo I have. Vaulted ceilings with different heights of ledges that collect dirt and Ceiling fans that are very hard to reach. I can use a Sebo extension hose or a Miele 10 ft non electric hose. Either one of these canisters can be sat on the couch or bed to reach the ceiling fans while I am on a ladder. My rainbow hose can do the same thing.

Now a days I have almost as much hard surface as carpet and a canister seems a better fit....

I do think what you grew up with has an influence on what you choose as well. My mom had an Electro Hygiene canister in the late 50's and most of the 60's. It was a work horse. It was my job to empty and shake out the bag when it was full. I did also run it for mom sometimes. When mom and dad built their first house they gave the Electro Hygiene to my aunt and bought a Westinghouse Canister. Absolutely the worst vacuum we ever had. Terribly hard bag changes, even for me....

I don't much care for an upright with a hose and attachments as I always felt they compromised the cleaning power of the upright by adding on a onboard hose and tools. WITH the exception of the Felix Sebo Upright. I absolutely love this vacuum......and I can actually use the extension hose of the sebo and leave the upright on the floor and still clean my high ceiling fans and ledges.


Bud Mattingly
PR-21


Post# 181291 , Reply# 7   5/16/2012 at 05:26 (2,884 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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I think that canisters with a Pn made more sense in the 70"s and before when uprights didn't have built in hoses. If you wanted to clean your house easily under furniture with out having to go and fetch the hose and attachments then it made scense to get a canister with a pn, back then they also had more suction for above the floor cleaning too


Post# 181293 , Reply# 8   5/16/2012 at 05:39 (2,884 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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That's true Gareth. These days most uprights have fitted hoses and lots of tools, so there isn't actually much that makes a cylinder better than an upright these days, except for cleaning stairs perhaps, but even then, some uprights have stretch hoses that can reach up all the stairs.

Post# 181295 , Reply# 9   5/16/2012 at 05:41 (2,884 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well, in the UK 1970's homes had all the rage of wall to wall thick carpeting. It was a trend that everyone wanted to feel the luxury of pile between their toes. I go by the experience here of the Observer & Ideal Home magazines my father hoarded that show off homes with carpets. But I can also remember a lot of my friends homes had those fangled carpet tiles that can be individually taken off and washed down.

gsheen - a lot of people go by what their mum/parents used. In that sense as far back as I can remember, my parents and grandparents had Hoover uprights. But, it wasn't until last year I was going through the loft putting new insulation down with a builder that I came across a butterfly upholstery tool from an original Electrolux canister and eventually the material covered hose that must have come from the "brown" Electrolux my mother recalls she had when she got married. Of course I was too young to remember or possibly wasn't around by then. I wasn't fan of canisters until later on in life, so in a way it is probably true that whatever your parents used - that you yourself can remember - you end up using yourself in later life.

It's a pity the hose had deteriorated so much though - it would have been a fine article to sell on EBay. I did keep the tool though!


Post# 181385 , Reply# 10   5/16/2012 at 18:13 (2,883 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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I think too that canisters are popular in other countries, is because hard floors are more common. Here in the US, homes often have lots of carpet, so you either need a PN canister or an upright, and uprights are typically cheaper.

Although most uprights now have on board tools, I don't use the ones on my upright usually. For one thing, they are nearly impossible to use. When you stretch the hose too far, it springs back, and will cause the vacuum to fall over. Also, it is much easier for me to do above floor cleaning with a canister, as with most uprights, I have to push it around by the handle while I hold the hose in the other hand. The older uprights with bottom tool conversion such as Eurekas and Hoover Convertibles and Concept Ones actually allowed you to pull the vacuum behind you which was much easier, almost as convenient as a canister. The uprights with built in hoses, this can't be done with.

The other reason I prefer canisters is they are easier for me to get under and around furniture with, such as reaching under the couch or tables. My canisters are also much quieter than most uprights I have seen.

I think in a lot of cases people that use uprights don't use the attachments that much, and same with canisters. I see a lot of used canisters that the attachments all look brand new. I guess few people actually do any dusting with their vacuums, but some people's homes seem to never get very dusty either.


Post# 181388 , Reply# 11   5/16/2012 at 18:39 (2,883 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

My mother had a Hoover 370 junior which she sold when she was given the chance to buy a much newer second hand Hoover 262 for a stupid price. There were no tools with the 262 and most cleaning was done with damp brushes and brooms anyway as our carpets were not fitted, rather we had floorboards and linoleum, with a covering of carpet squares in the middle of the rooms. I think the only thing mother could have used attachments for was when cleaning the soft furniture. I do remember her borrowing a dustette off of a neighbour now and then and giving the furniture a good clean. The stair case in our home only had a narrow strip of carpet running up of the middle. This was cleaned regularly with brushes, although my mother did ask me on many occasions to lift the Hoover 262 up and vacuum the stairs, which I did. As my mother could barely lift the cleaner to take up to clean the bedrooms, she had no chance of vacuuming the stairs in this fashion.

As Sebo fan has indicated, by the 1970's fitted carpets were taking over and my parents did go in for such flooring at the end of the 1960's. This, coupled with the fact that mother was getting no younger, meant that she wanted a new, lighter vacuum cleaner, and I think I said before that she had her eye on an Electrolux 152. She was still deciding on it years later, by which time the 152 was now the 170. However, she was housekeeper to a doctor and looked after the family very well. She nursed the father (also a doctor) until his death, something which was way beyond her original appointment, and her efforts were rewarded when the family bought her an Electrolux 504 with all the tools. The family needed a new vacuum cleaner and asked my mother to accompany them to the electrical store to choose a new one. That is when the doctor placed an order for two machines. I remember well how my mother came home and said the doctor bought two cleaners, which she assumed was so they had a vacuum cleaner for both floors of the house she cleaned. Little did she know that one of them was for her. This was the first time she had ever owned a cleaner with tools and she loved it.

Her Hoover 262 was put upstairs and used to clean the bedrooms, although they never had fitted carpet up there. Eventually something happened to that cleaner, but I don't know what, and it was taken to the shop and traded in for an Electrolux 302 cylinder, which became mothers upstairs machine, although she did often ask me to bring it downstairs when doing a deep clean as she said the suction power on the hose was 'more useful' than that of the 504. My mother kept both machines until her dying day although the tool kits did get muddled up somewhat as she preferred the 504 floor tool over the one supplied with her 302 cylinder and used the 504 floor tool on the 302. I did get her a Panasonic upright during the 1990's which she liked, but hated with a passion the short stretch hose, I think possibly this was because the cleaner fell over and hit her on one of the first occasions she used the tools. She only ever really used the cleaner as an upright machine.



Post# 181404 , Reply# 12   5/16/2012 at 21:15 (2,883 days old) by Trebor ()        
Stretch hoses on an upright are intended to be used...

with one hand on the cleaner handle at all times, and for quick spot pick-ups. Just not practical for thorough cleaning of upholstery or wide expanses of wall.


Post# 181426 , Reply# 13   5/17/2012 at 00:32 (2,883 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I know what you mean about the Panasonic hitting her when using the stretch hose, as I had that happen to me recently with my Turbopower 1000.

I was vacuuming the settee when all of a sudden the damn thing toppled over on top of me, all five tonnes. HOOVER didn't make it lightweight that's for sure.

To say I initially felt like throwing it out of the top floor window was a damn right understatement.

Now I always keep my left hand on the carry handle to ensure something like that never reoccurs.


Post# 181453 , Reply# 14   5/17/2012 at 03:43 (2,883 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I know the best way to use an upright with a stretch hose is to hold the cleaner with one hand at all times, but that is only something we have adopted for ourselves as instruction books rarely mention doing so. It is also not that easy to do either, especially if like my mother was at the time the user is rather old. She didn't have the strength to handle the stretch hose one handed as it was.

Post# 181455 , Reply# 15   5/17/2012 at 04:07 (2,883 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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I find they slaken up after a while, however I do have a dc29db that I use for my above the floor cleaning once a week , but for everyday vacuuming I find you cannot beat a upright with a built in hose. I have allot of animals and two sons so everyday vacuuming even around the edges is a must for us. 

 

One of the reasons I like my dysons so much is that the pipe is built into the hose so It makes cleaning faster than having to attach a pipe aswell. It may sound trivial but when you have a son who is semi autistic and adhd and another son who is just naughty like his dad , cleaning is a time limited necessity that needs to be made as easy as possible


Post# 181456 , Reply# 16   5/17/2012 at 04:13 (2,883 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

It doesn't sound trivial to me. I see your problem. I think cleaning is trivial full stop. I clean, yes of course I do, but no more than I have to. I also have a woman who comes in at least once month and cleans all through my apartment in somewhat more detail than I could ever have asked for.

Post# 181461 , Reply# 17   5/17/2012 at 05:08 (2,883 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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My wife and I also run a business together, a vacuum shop and I have a business with my Dad , a cleaning company, and I am a consultant engineer to a vacuum company here in SA, so we are pretty busy and Josh my eldest who has severe asperges and is severely adhd, odd can be a handful, hence I work from home. we don't have a cleaning lady at all we do it ourselves so it can be "fun" yep its trivial but I like a clean house so I live with it. I just find the best tools to do the job and use those it makes it allot easier  


Post# 181512 , Reply# 18   5/17/2012 at 13:40 (2,882 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hi there, oh I quite agree with all you say (I hope you didn't think otherwise). Cleaning can be fun, it is just that it ticks few boxes for me now that I am retired. I live in a sheltered housing development, which is very small. One bedroom. But that makes it easy to clean and I have few worries about home maintenance as I only have to manage the inside of my home. My girl who comes in, Linda, she is like a breath of fresh air. She attends to all the jobs I cannot actually do now, like moving furniture and cleaning the shower tray properly. So what I don't do myself, she does when she comes in.

It is the best money I spend and I do look forward to coming home on the day that she comes to me. I see you said that you run a cleaning service. I used to have a much larger company do the work for me, they are a franchise outfit and are very expensive. I paid a good deal more for the work, which wasn't the problem, the problem was that the company were not able to do a lot of the tasks which I needed help with. So I gave that one up when I was told about Linda who was more able / willing to do what I need. But with that, I have to say I found she does do a much better job in general and seems happy to charge me less than the other people did.


Post# 181527 , Reply# 19   5/17/2012 at 15:14 (2,882 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I have to ask though... What Vacuum Cleaner does she use ?

Post# 181533 , Reply# 20   5/17/2012 at 15:22 (2,882 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello Mr M. She has Numatic cleaners, I have mended some for her in the past, a couple of Henrys and a James I think. She mostly has a Hetty with her, but I have seen one of the others before now. Her sister helps her so I think they share things around. I am not too bothered what she uses as my flat is hard floor with a couple of tiny rugs. I can manage the sweeping and vacuuming, so she spends most of her time doing the jobs I can't do.

Post# 181542 , Reply# 21   5/17/2012 at 15:50 (2,882 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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Hey Benny 

 

I have nothing against having a cleaning lady, I personally like to do it myself as I am a little ocd and like things in a certain way, I hate the picking things up and with my two sons oh boy there is alot of that to do. I have been using a dc40 for the past few months and let me tell you that thing can handle lego like no other vac, Thats why I prefer bag-less as well it easier to retrieve lego from it and toy soldiers and more lego , Unfortunately this has shown my two geniuses something, after been told to clean up the lego spread all over the play area floor  i heard the vacuum go on and thought wow they are even vacuuming . NO NOT MY TWO MONSTERS, they took my dyson dc29db and vacuum'd up all the lego, " but Daddy its faster this way and we just pour it into the container " 


Post# 181548 , Reply# 22   5/17/2012 at 16:07 (2,882 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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I agree Gareth, I like things just so!

That begs the question Benny - What Vacuum Cleaner to YOU own then ?


Post# 181551 , Reply# 23   5/17/2012 at 16:19 (2,882 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I have a Dyson DC07, yellow and grey, I thought I said before, but it doesn't matter. I use it for the rugs mostly. I don't know why I kept it, I suppose because it was a brand new stock item which I took when I sold the shop. But I actually don't vacuum much now, I have a fluffy floor pad which I use damp on the floors and Linda vacuums thoroughly, but that doesn't take her long to do. It is mainly getting behind the furniture I need her to do, but whenever I come home after her visit, I see she has vacuumed much more thoroughly than I told her I would expect her to do.

The main thing is, she does still do the other tasks, the ones which I desperately need her to do. The other people who used to come in spent more time doing jobs which I can manage myself, and were not interested in the things which I find difficult. So it seemed pointless them coming. I did originally have Linda every 2 weeks which was as often as the others used to come, but she was doing such a good job for me that I did not get the place dirty enough between her coming in. So after a few months I asked her to come less often. I did worry that she wouldn't want to come at all but she says she has so much work that it didn't bother her. But I pay her a bit more for the 4 week visit than I did when she came every other week. She is a god send to an old man like me.


Post# 181553 , Reply# 24   5/17/2012 at 16:25 (2,882 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Maybe you did say before and I've forgotten, my memory isn't so good.

That's good you're getting help with the things you can't do and are doing what you can. I get the sense you worked hard and are now enjoying your retirement, if that is so, then you deserve it. But don't enjoy it too much, you still need to contribute on here! Ha ha.





Post# 181559 , Reply# 25   5/17/2012 at 16:49 (2,882 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

That is a nice thing to say, thank you. I am not sure I worked hard, but I have always been lucky enough to have had work. My father was hard working but also very, very tight with money. That is why my mother went out to work. Mother had to make up for what money she needed that my father was not giving her. Although he was what one might call rather Victorian in attitude, he had no problem in letting his wife go to work, which many men would not have allowed unless absolutely necessary as it may have been assumed that the man was not a good provider. It is not something I expect younger people to understand as times have moved on now, and I think for the better. I did not like my father very much. We never once argued, but that was mainly because I hardly spoke to him. He was rather resentful of how close I was to my mother.

When he died, he left my mother the money he had saved. Even though I knew he had savings, the amount he left her was a huge shock. It was hard to get mother to spend any of it as she was a stranger to luxury. She only survived my father by 18 months, which made me sad as she did not get to enjoy the things she had never been able to have. This is why I am spending my money while I can.


Post# 181562 , Reply# 26   5/17/2012 at 16:53 (2,882 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Well I think that's the best thing to do - Enjoy what you have while you can. Sorry to be ever so morbid, but as I always say, live each day like it's your last, because you could wake up dead tomorrow.

I think I'll give that job at Samaritans a miss for now...


Post# 181564 , Reply# 27   5/17/2012 at 16:54 (2,882 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I would if I were you. I don't think you were being serious.

Post# 181565 , Reply# 28   5/17/2012 at 16:55 (2,882 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Being serious about what ?

Post# 181566 , Reply# 29   5/17/2012 at 16:56 (2,882 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

About your new job.

Post# 181567 , Reply# 30   5/17/2012 at 16:58 (2,882 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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No I wasn't being serious. The offer of a job would be a fine thing.

Post# 181581 , Reply# 31   5/17/2012 at 17:57 (2,882 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan )        

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When I was young I always thought that uprights were "Old Lady" vacuum's and canisters were for younger people. But this was back in the 80's and that was what I saw in older peoples houses. Now a days it's mostly uprights. I think that most people are going for uprights because they tend to be less expensive as opposed to canisters. Money being as tight as it is these days people are more likely to go with the less expensive.

Post# 181610 , Reply# 32   5/17/2012 at 22:29 (2,882 days old) by gmerkt (Edmonds WA)        

I sell reconditioned vacs and people tell me all nature of reasons for upright vs. canister. One comment I've heard a number of times against canisters is, "I don't like dragging a vacuum cleaner around behind me." Buyers either love or hate a canister; there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. I've sold canisters to a number of professional house cleaners. They like the easy of access for getting under furniture that a canister offers, and they like the easy portability of one. Although most modern uprights have on-board hoses, the typical canister hose is longer and more useful to pros.

When I was growing up in the 1950's and early '60's, canister machines were commonly seen in the households that I would visit. When manufacturers started putting hoses on uprights, that might have started the downward trend here in the States for canisters. Today, there aren't many uprights made without some kind of on-board hose and not many canisters are on the market. Of those still sold, they tend to be at both extremes of price point. Consequently, I have no problem selling recon. canister rigs.

People don't seem to care that the on-board hose arrangements on uprights are often clumsy and awkward. I opine that most of them use the hose seldom, mostly using the floor nozzle. Quite a few uprights have a brush roll off feature now, to go along with the disappearing carpet in many homes.


Post# 182992 , Reply# 33   5/28/2012 at 18:41 (2,871 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        

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Uprights with hoses and tools on board are just a nuisance if your vacuuming a carpet why would you want to drag all that crap about with you lets face it the tools on a modern upright are little more than useless anyway . Although i love hoover uprights i really think Electrolux had the best idea with the 502 series no adaptors or pans simply plug in the hose and away you go . When my mum got her first hoover junior she decided to fit the hose and hoover the stairs after one stair the tools were removed thrown into the cupboard under the stairs never to see daylight again till many years later when i found them the stairs and the car continued to be cleaned with the old Electrolux z62 the juniors predecesor

Post# 182995 , Reply# 34   5/28/2012 at 18:59 (2,871 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Well the reason people want to drag all that crap about with them is because many find it easier to use the hose as they are going along instead of doing the jobs with the hose first and the carpets second, or the other way around. Do I subscribe to this way of thinking? I am not sure. Certainly it makes for a much quicker way of cleaning, but it comes at a cost of having less than perfect tools and a more bulky upright cleaner. The fact that practically every upright on sale today has tools makes me think it is what people want.

Post# 183033 , Reply# 35   5/29/2012 at 07:08 (2,871 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Very true Benny, a lot of people like to do a bit of this and a bit of that. If you tried that way of thinking with a Lux 500 Series for example you'd be forever connecting and disconnecting the hose.

With a permanently fitted hose it is easy to do a bit of dusting, carpet, a bit of the skirting boards, carpet, vacuum the settee, more carpet etc...

Whether I prefer that to having a separate hose and doing all the aforementioned in one go before, or after doing the carpets, I'm not sure either...

One thing I am sure about however, is that having a hose there when you may need it without having to go and fetch it then connect it for just a small bit of dust or dirt, is very convenient.

Just my Two Pence...


Post# 183056 , Reply# 36   5/29/2012 at 10:13 (2,871 days old) by Trebor ()        
Above the floor cleaning....

is of two varieties. There is the on-the-fly quick catching of the stray bit of popcorn, or cobweb, and there is the thorough vacuuming of lampshades, upholstery, bookshelves. On-board attachments are geared toward the first kind of use. The second is more easily and thoroughly achieved with a separate canister, or an extension hose (fixed length, non-stretch) and more complete tool kit.

No one has yet created a full, complete set of on-board tools with sufficient length to eliminate the need for additional hose/wands. A longer hose adds weight, and increases the length of the dirt path, as well as increasing the number of bends and turns. More tools equal more weight because of the tools themselves, plus the molded cavities to hold them. Power nozzle canisters offer some benefits, but have a longer dirt path. The hose is heavier due to the concealed wires. Even these units can offer greater utility and user friendliness with a longer, lighter hose that connects to the electric hose for extensive more thorough above-the-floor cleaning,


Post# 183058 , Reply# 37   5/29/2012 at 10:20 (2,871 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Yes, I whole heartedly agree that a stretch hose isn't best suited to thorough above floor cleaning, while a long plastic hose IS.

A stretch hose can be used for thorough cleaning, don't misunderstand me, but it is a little more inconvenient due to the fact it keeps wanting to escape your grasp when you pull it close to it's stretch limitations.


Post# 183061 , Reply# 38   5/29/2012 at 10:53 (2,871 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Mmm... I don't know... I think some models that have two part hoses that can offer extra stretch are good for above the floor cleaning. Whatever the hose offers in terms of stretch, I find that I have to either keep a hand on the machine or just a watchful eye. This is more apparent with vacuums like the Sebo or Miele S7, where the stretch hose is long enough but the machine has to be placed against an obstacle to stop it from falling over. Even with Miele's S7 hose mount at the back that pivots the hose down to stop the machine falling over, it has happened to me.

This is where a cylinder vacuum with a longer hose is better, just keeping an eye/hand on the longer hose. For stair cleaning I much prefer using a cylinder vac and even the cheapey supermarket bagged vacuums are purposeful for this - especially ones that are smaller and easier to carry per step or stretch from a landing.


Post# 183090 , Reply# 39   5/29/2012 at 14:13 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Trebor, Sebo fan, for me you nailed it. On-board tools for quick bits, separate cylinder for as better clean. That I feel is the way to go, though for those people in society who don't want to spend too much of their short life cleaning houses in any great detail (I label these people having their priorities right) then on-board tools are probably all that is required. Not that I am saying the differences aren't fully noticeable. Just not required. Linda was here today and it shows. My flat sparkles. She has told me many times in the course of conversations that people say their home is better when she's done it for them. But that's because she does take time to do a good, thorough job, vacuuming and cleaning into all the places she knows that get dirty in a particular home. She charges for it of course, she charges a good deal of money, but she is worth every last penny.

I think some things are changed to make life easier but come at a cost, like on-board tools. Other things seem to be a massive improvement on an old favourite. I let Linda iron my formal shirts for me now too, as I had a brief unexpected spell in hospital earlier this year and when I came out I found that she'd cleaned and washed and ironed for me. I can manage the washing without a problem, but seeing my shirts after she'd pressed them for me actually brought a lump to my throat as only my mother had ever done such a beautiful job of them. I am hopeless. So she got the job permanently. It turns out that Linda has this huge spaceship of a steam iron, its one of those generator things and she gets through my shirts in no time, and yet they look pristine. The only 'cost' as I can see is the actual price ticket and the storage of the whole thing. Linda said her only wish would be that the iron could be unplugged from the base unit. Its a marvellous piece of equipment.


Post# 183098 , Reply# 40   5/29/2012 at 14:37 (2,870 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Talking about the steam generator, my mother runs an ironing service and she uses a Morphy Richards Jet Stream iron for that, which has been getting steamy for 3 years now without fault.

It'll need a new filter soon but apart from that I expect it to run for many more years maintenance free.

I don't iron myself, in my opinion the creases come out with your body heat when the clothes are worn. Of course if I require formal attire I will iron using my seldom used cordless unbranded iron which works OK I suppose, nothing like the power of the Jet Stream though.


Post# 183119 , Reply# 41   5/29/2012 at 15:20 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Oh the cordless irons. How I remember those coming on sale in the middle 1980's. What excitement for a market which had seen virtually no major changes since steam irons were invented. Morphy Richards were the ones to invent this. My father worked for Morphy Richards for almost all of his working life, in fact my mother and I did too until 1970, but father retired a couple of years or so before this model went out to the shops. However, he was there when it was being designed and several employees were given cordless irons during the design stages to see how they got on. My father bought his home for my mother to use. She absolutely hated it. I have no idea if she fed this back to Morphy Richards or not. These irons were massive sellers and it didn't take very long for other manufacturers to make their own versions.

The comments I heard were always the same. "It gets cold when it's not connected to the base". This must have hit home with the various manufacturers, as cordless irons were very quickly superseded by 'corded-cordless' irons which one way or another gave the user the choice of cordless ironing for most items, with corded operation for heavier items which required the iron to spend more time off the base unit and / or using more steam. Although you could still get the odd cordless-only models, they were at the cheaper end of the range. By the middle 1990's almost all cordless irons had been discontinued. I think because by then people generally knew they were not all that effective. Like the on-board tools mentioned earlier, it took away one problem (the troublesome cord) and replaced it with another (an iron which was too cool to use). So the user had to decide which was worse, and traditional corded irons won.


Post# 183126 , Reply# 42   5/29/2012 at 15:36 (2,870 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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And that, is why I hate my cordless iron! You summed it up in a nutshell!

I also have a nice manly pink Tesco Value corded steam iron I bought from... Well, Tesco, a few years ago for 3.99 I believe.

It works quite well but as I said, I rarely use it.



Post# 183133 , Reply# 43   5/29/2012 at 15:42 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I think I have made it clear already that my father did not spend money easily. Even with the discounts offered to staff on new and rebuilt goods, we did not have many appliances at home. Though if we had an appliance and Morphy Richards made such a thing, then it was M R every time. The exception was my mothers vacuum cleaner of course. I am not sure M R made cleaners when she got her Hoover 370 and it may even have not been new. The Hoover 262 she was was from a private sale. But everything else was M R or a sub brand of them. Not that we had much.

Post# 183136 , Reply# 44   5/29/2012 at 15:47 (2,870 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Morphy Richards is a brand that although good, I've never really taken to, as I did Bosch, Electrolux, Zanussi etc...

Post# 183138 , Reply# 45   5/29/2012 at 15:49 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I sent that message too soon. Sorry. I meant to say that my mother had a M R senior dry iron, it was an original sort with porcelain top. If it ever went wrong, father took it to work and it was put right again. My mother did upgrade to a steam iron when she joined the company and bought herself one, but she was never happy with it as it did not function like the Hoover steam irons which she has seen in the shops, as she had to wait for the water to boil, and then it could not be stopped. When M R bought out their own push-button cold drip steam iron she bought one of those and used it for a good deal of years.

Post# 183141 , Reply# 46   5/29/2012 at 15:52 (2,870 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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So back years ago the water on steam irons had to boil ?

I thought the formula of injecting cold water onto the hot sole plate that is used today would have been easily thought of and used years ago too. It seems not.


Post# 183142 , Reply# 47   5/29/2012 at 15:54 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Well M R was a brand which focused on features, price, and reasonable quality. These principles stood firm until the middle 1960's when M R was merged with GEC. Until then, it was still run by the founders Messrs Morphy and Richards. After that M R changed hands several times. The quality aspect of the goods it produced fluctuated greatly, but was always at the cheaper end of the markets. In the 1980's if you wanted quality you bought Rowenta or Tefal. These days all small appliances are much of a muchness I think.

Post# 183145 , Reply# 48   5/29/2012 at 15:58 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

With respect of steam irons, the principle of dripping cold water onto a hot plate is the way that they were originally designed and this is how the Hoover iron worked. The M R iron came a short while later, and the water had to boil in the tank, I do believe the tank was strapped to the heating element and was refereed to as a boiler. The steam could then not be stopped, but why M R made their iron this way I do not know. The next range of irons were just like the Hoover, with a cold drip and a button to switch the steam off and on.

Post# 183147 , Reply# 49   5/29/2012 at 15:59 (2,870 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
uprights with on board tools

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it seems to me we buy uprights with on board tools because you would be hard pushed to find one without i am sure if hoover started knocking out a modern junior or senior[no tool kit ] they would fly off the shelves most of my friends and family hate the onboard tools and would love a simple vacuum without the accesories then again the modern upright has its place in the home alongside the other fashion items giant fridge and the huge cooker that rarely gets used to its capacity and of course in the living room you will find the obligotry plasma telly on the wall above the fake electric fire sorry my spelling is terrible

Post# 183149 , Reply# 50   5/29/2012 at 16:00 (2,870 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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So once it started steaming it would keep going, how silly... I don't know how Morphy Richards could have thought that would surpass the traditional method!

Post# 183152 , Reply# 51   5/29/2012 at 16:02 (2,870 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Trust me Anthony, if HOOVER produced a new Junior or Senior with a dirty fan motor then I'd be the first to buy it!

Post# 183197 , Reply# 52   5/29/2012 at 19:05 (2,870 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well.. talking of dirty fan uprights, one that was released a few years ago and managed to achieve good sales is the Hometek Light n Easy. I had two of them and, well the noise put me off more than anything but I liked the keen cheap price, given that despite the lack of filtration compared to Oreck, the Hometek was nothing more than a very similar update, albeit with a pretty nasty brush roll and a head light as standard. I put one in my family holiday home to use on the carpets and my Sebo Dart came home with me! You could say, without the necessary "Hoover" badge, the "Hometek" is the closest thing you'll likely to find if you are looking for a soft bagged upright vacuum with a dirty fan, next to the premium Oreck.







Post# 183245 , Reply# 53   5/30/2012 at 02:52 (2,870 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

I used to stock those. Horrible things. But the people who bought them seemed to like them.

Post# 183303 , Reply# 54   5/30/2012 at 17:13 (2,869 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
the light and easy vac

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i work with the elderly and they seem to like this machine but the noise is terrible i mentioned this to one of my ladies she said oh yes its noisy but i just turn my hearing aid off and its fine i had to laugh but seriously they are terrible machines and cant be compared to a junior or senior what i meant was if hoover started making those machines again they would fly off the shelves because they did exactly what they were designed to do and very well at that also at a price that everyone could afford and lets face it the design was simple and easy to repair loads of my old ladies often say to me[ when they find out i like vacs ]i wish i still had my Hoover junior i had it 40 years and all it ever needed was a new belt now and again and then they bring out there present vacuum the usual dyson or somthing similar and say i dont use it because its to heavy . You see a lot of those retro looking fridges around and lots of small kichen apps that are of a retro design well how about a retro vacuum cleaner and who better to make it its got to be hoover reproducing one of its iconic machines

Post# 183304 , Reply# 55   5/30/2012 at 17:33 (2,869 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Well it is an interesting debate. I think the difference between what we today term 'retro' major appliances like fridges and so on, and a retro vacuum cleaner, is that the major appliances are fashionable for their vintage look, whereas a vacuum cleaner is fashionable for it's ultra model style. There is no accounting for fashion.

Take a mobile telephone and a landline telephone. As mentioned on another message strip, there is a certain demand it seems for a retro looking house telephone. I doubt that a mobile telephone -even if packed to the top with the latest features- would ever sell if it had a retro look about it. You could take that retro theme two ways when it comes to mobiles; you could have say a mobile telephone designed to look like those 1980's house-brick mobile telephones, thereby combining modern technology and old styling, like the retro fridges, or, like the retro washing machines and dishwashers which Smeg make, it could actually bear little to no resemblance at all of the actual vintage product which it is trying to be, and just has an overall vintage appearance.

I think the Maytag Satellite cleaner from a few years a go dipped it's toe in the retro waters so far as cleaning goes, and from what I recall it was not exactly going to out sell a Dyson. I realise of course that the Satellite had many a design issue which prevented it from being one of the better cleaners on sale at that time, but that would have only come to light after the purchase had been made and would have been mostly subjective anyway. From what I can establish, it did not have much of an appeal. I do wonder if this may have been due to the fact that a good deal of people who may be buying retro styled appliances would have been a little too young to recall the constellation first hand, whereas although the same could be said about telephones and major appliances, these products would have appeared many times as props in films, soap operas, and comedies, many of which have been repeated over and over again to the present day.

When all is said and done, I must say that my own opinion is that a Junior or Senior type vacuum cleaner on sale today would not sell well at all. Whether we like it or not, it seems to be the Dyson and those cleaners which look like a Dyson which are in the greatest demand.


Post# 183341 , Reply# 56   5/31/2012 at 00:38 (2,869 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Well I read what you wrote Benny and was nodding all through it.

Although I wish HOOVER would produce another Junior or Senior, I think I'd probably be the only one in my area to buy it!

People do seem to love their cumbersome Dysons these days which clean nothing like the dirty fans of the 90s...


Post# 183342 , Reply# 57   5/31/2012 at 00:40 (2,869 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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That should have read "which clean nothing like the dirty fans of the 70s".

Trust me to post without consuming a full cup of coffee!


Post# 183343 , Reply# 58   5/31/2012 at 00:43 (2,869 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
especially something like, um, a

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1977 Senior "Ranger". Rumor has it, there's nothing like them.

Post# 183349 , Reply# 59   5/31/2012 at 02:07 (2,869 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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John, you know me too well. I may have to kill you now to stop the secret spreading.

Post# 183358 , Reply# 60   5/31/2012 at 03:12 (2,869 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Those Rangers were very good cleaners. Does anyone have one? smiles.


Post# 183360 , Reply# 61   5/31/2012 at 03:32 (2,869 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Well, as it happens...

Post# 183361 , Reply# 62   5/31/2012 at 03:39 (2,869 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

No? We're in luck then.

Post# 183362 , Reply# 63   5/31/2012 at 03:42 (2,869 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Ah, but that would be telling, so I'll keep you guessing for now :)

Post# 183368 , Reply# 64   5/31/2012 at 05:40 (2,869 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        
ranger who has one

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Me i have a ranger 


Post# 183370 , Reply# 65   5/31/2012 at 06:17 (2,869 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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VR - Good points and well thought out!

 

Sadly the Ranger was the one model that took me a few years to "forgive." The baby sitter used to chase me around the house with my parents Hoover Ranger. It took me a few years to even touch the Hoover, well before I ever got into collecting vacuums. You could say that I was very much emotionally disturbed by the mere sight of a Ranger and learnt to live with it past the age of 10, eventually!

 

Thing is though, Anthony - as much as the Hometek is hellish, it can still be compared easily to the Junior at best - it is cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and relatively easy to use. The whole design principle that it brings to the table is that its an upright vacuum only with no tools on offer - and lets face it - by the time the Junior U1104 came out of production, not many bought the tool kit knowingly because of the lack of power. 

 

Hoover UK did try and pull a fast one with their continental "Athyss" stick vac by renaming it "Junior" a few years back. I had two of them, both the red stick vac and the black one. They didn't last, both suffering from seemingly poor hinges at the top of the handle where it is supposed to fold over to make for space. It did the job well, but it was cumbersome and the red model's lack of variable suction made it hard to push. That and the hopelessly small 1.5 litre dust bag made it appear as a total non-relation to the Junior upright proper.

 

Infact, thinking about Hoover UK in general and the tat that they sell these days, I think customers in the UK have been burnt for far too long from the products from this company. I don't think Hoover will ever recover unless they separate from Candy and go with a different company, but even at that, they would have to produce a higher amount of quality and precision into floor care products. I think the damage has already been done - Hoover were good once upon a time but not any longer, sadly. 



Post# 183416 , Reply# 66   5/31/2012 at 13:36 (2,868 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Thank you Sebo fan. To be honest though, I don't think people are as worked up now about the whole Hoover-Candy thing and that terrible business over the airmiles, now that a good 20 or so years has gone by. I think that for many consumers Hoover is just another name and at least one generation of purchasers these days would probably have no idea just how much market domination, loyalty, and quality was attached to Hoover as we know it. I'd go so far as to say that there are probably young people out there who think Hoover is the actual name for a vacuum cleaner and that the 'brand' Hoover took their name from the product. Especially when you hear so many people saying 'Dyson hoover' instead of Dyson vacuum cleaner. I'd refer to it as an oxymoron were it not for the fact that it too sounds like a model of cleaner, if not something for removing stains at low temperatures.

What I would really love to know and see would be what the vacuum cleaner market would be like today had Dyson cleaners not gone on sale.


Post# 183418 , Reply# 67   5/31/2012 at 13:50 (2,868 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
What the market would have been like without Dyson...

sebo_fan's profile picture

Well, I think someone would have done a bagless upright before long - when you look at Black and Decker with their dust buster - the original cordless idea with a filter to catch the dust, or early Hoover tub vacuums that could be used without a bag - certainly a "bag-less" vacuum was around in the late 1970's and look at Hoover's Powerplus with the dust box at the bottom.

 

Brands were evidently thinking of offering the bag-less idea along the line, maybe the next step up from shake out permanent bags. I think the idea of going bag-less was certainly catching on without Dyson promoting the cyclone idea. I know the Goblin Laser could be used without a bag for example - but I have a feeling it was out on the market just before Dyson's DC01 in 1993, though timeline info on the Laser seems to be 1995, two years after Dyson came to the UK with the DC01.


Post# 183500 , Reply# 68   6/1/2012 at 02:34 (2,868 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Hello Sebo fan. I am not sure which Hoover cleaners from the 1970's which you refer to as being able to be used without a bag, sorry. Did you mean Hitachi? There can be no doubt at all that a good deal of consumers were interested in bagless vacuum cleaners, although as paper bags were all the rage, there was little other option, though many cheaper cylinder vacuum cleaners did of course have cloth bags fitted to them and of those which I had brought into my shop, few had been used with a paper bag. Not only this, of all the packets of bags I used to sell, they were mostly for paper bag only cleaners.

However I say this, but I do believe that the true introduction of bagless cleaning towards the late 1980's and early 1990's was because the manufacturers knew that Dyson cleaners were just around the corner. After all, Dyson had taken his idea to what seemed like all of them, and I'm sure they must have known he was going to go at it alone. But I don't think any manufacturer was prepared for the success of the cleaner and the brand. I do apologise for repeating myself, but I must that that I don't like or dislike Dyson, but I do think the sales have been more to do with him making so-called exciting looking products, rather than products which have spent so much time on the design table.


Post# 183516 , Reply# 69   6/1/2012 at 05:33 (2,868 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Hi VR - yep, I refer to Hitachi - but I also refer to other brands, not Hoover of course, but others who did the fabric bag idea or a central filter where dust could cling onto and then require to be brushed clean and I take your point that companies knew of Dyson beforehand when he approached them with the design. But well before Dyson had started releasing the idea of making a vacuum cleaner, even hand held vacuums, cue Dirt Devil's Handy vac could be used without a bag. Again, although not an upright vacuum, the idea to go "bag-less" or without having to continually replace bags was already being used in other vacuum cleaner applications.

 

To be honest though I think Dyson had a winning formula from the start with the Dual Cyclone idea. The whole justification behind the vacuum initially was that it didn't need a bag and the bag didn't have to be continually replaced. Dyson didn't bring a new design to the hose or cleaning tools than any other brand, just something that looked different. If you had a patent that could change the way things were done, wouldn't you want to take advantage of promoting the design through something that looked unique and appealing? Certainly when it comes to versatile use with its large hinge and cumbersome tools on board plus the hose, the DC01 isn't as good as other vacuums that have a simpler arrangement but it was a machine I quite liked just for not having to buy bags AND in my hands, my DC01 only began to suffer from poor suction when the filters needed to be replaced. So, yes whilst the vacuums aren't the best practical designed or as versatile, its the early indicators of success that the "no loss of suction" claim and the lack of having to buy bags for it that made it good from a seller's point of view AND largely in the hands of owners. 

 

It is easy now, so many years later to see that in some ways Dyson may have slipped from the quality, or the "no-loss" principle can be questioned, proved false - whatever - but back in the early days, the DC01 was better than most and with it having no direct rival, a unique machine on the market because of its patents. 


Post# 183699 , Reply# 70   6/1/2012 at 20:27 (2,867 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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I believe there was a dual cyclone machine from James Dyson before the Dyson DC-01, known as the Cyclon. It was sold in small numbers in 1984 by a company called KleenEaze. I do agree the idea for a bagless machine had long been considered by then, as attested by machines using reuseable cloth bags.




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