Thread Number: 16682
Are Eco-labelled Vacuum Cleaners Worth the Extra Cash brands are selling? |
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Post# 177912   4/21/2012 at 23:06 (4,359 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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It suddenly dawned on me recently the cost price of a Miele S6 Ecoline. Now, this is a model that Miele claim offers the performance of their 2000 watt vacuum but last I looked the base S6 cost £149-99 compared to the S6 Ecoline that cost £179-99 which has a 1200 watt motor. In terms of pricing and cost, are Eco-labelled vacuums really worth the extra cost?
I personally think its a big marketing excuse and ironic, since Miele vacs from the 1970s into the 1980s had 1300 watts anyway and relied on the brown paper dust bags compared to the current FJM/GN bags the machines now use. Also, vacuum cleaners in general are hardly going to burn a hole in your electricity bill - an electric ceramic hob for example can use 3000 watts to power up and if you use that every day, then clearly its more powerful than a vacuum cleaner. |
Post# 177949 , Reply# 1   4/22/2012 at 05:25 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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I'm all for lowering the wattage of motors if possible, as I hate high wattage screamers, but for an extra price... Hmm, that's a bit cheeky if you ask me.
As for the energy saving - I'm with you on the fact that a Vacuum Cleaner, for the time it is in use, is never going to make a big difference to your utility bill. It is the same with the new Henry Eco, what is the point of it ? It is all a marketing ploy as far as I'm concerned. If something is branded "Eco", people will think they are doing good for the environment by buying it and therefore will be more inclined to do just that. |
Post# 177966 , Reply# 5   4/22/2012 at 07:47 (4,358 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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If you can get someone to mend it, and for a price which is less that the stupid selling prices of new stock, that is a great idea. |
Post# 177972 , Reply# 7   4/22/2012 at 08:16 (4,358 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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Yes, but sadly who knows how to do such things today? Not many. I only know because someone showed me how to mend vacuums. I wouldn't have much idea about many other appliances. |
Post# 177978 , Reply# 9   4/22/2012 at 08:28 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 177980 , Reply# 10   4/22/2012 at 08:38 (4,358 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)   |   | |
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Post# 177986 , Reply# 14   4/22/2012 at 09:04 (4,358 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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Sadly, for most people, price wins. |
Post# 177988 , Reply# 15   4/22/2012 at 10:09 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Something we agree on David!
I'm always banging on to people about how things are considered disposable these days, and everybody wants the newest item out. Not me! If I can fix something, for example, a Vacuum Cleaner, I will, if I can't, I'll get somebody to fix it and if that can't be done, then I'll regretfully let it go to the carpet in the sky. My desktop in the living room that I use 95% of the time is a 2008 Gigabyte Technologies computer which was built by the previous owner before being sold on for £25 brand new to myself back in '08. I know, what a bargain. It has Windows 2000 installed on it and although it is now 12 years old, it still works brilliantly and I wouldn't trade it for Windows 7, 8, 9, or any other number they wish to release. And the computer in question: |
Post# 177989 , Reply# 16   4/22/2012 at 10:12 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 177991 , Reply# 17   4/22/2012 at 10:12 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 177992 , Reply# 18   4/22/2012 at 10:14 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 177997 , Reply# 19   4/22/2012 at 10:33 (4,358 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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I agree with Rob RE: the low setting on the current Numatics. I use my Henry a fair bit, especially on laminate flooring and above floor cleaning and I never need to use the high setting, thus saving 600w of power.
I also agree that this country has gone completely mad on eco-ness and there is no need for it. If vacuums didn't have such ridiculously high motor wattage anyway, we wouldn't NEED Eco switches and such nonsense! We're now up to 2200w machines and it's ridiculous and unnecessary. Lets not forget, 25 years ago people were perfectly happy with 410w and a decent brushroll. I, for one, still am. Cylinders have always used more watts to generate higher suction to compensate for the lack of agitation, but look at something like the Hoover Sensotronic at 1000w and it's one of the highest performing cylinders I've ever used. Here is my equivalent of an "eco vac"...410w and picks up more than most modern cleaners! |
Post# 178000 , Reply# 21   4/22/2012 at 11:01 (4,358 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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Not to mention the old PENCON 4-way extention slab. |
Post# 178002 , Reply# 22   4/22/2012 at 11:09 (4,358 days old) by twocvbloke ()   |   | |
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Nah, that's a WG 4-way... :P |
Post# 178003 , Reply# 23   4/22/2012 at 11:12 (4,358 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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WG, Volex, same company. The name PENCON was the name of the range and was embossed on the original moulded 13amp plug which these came with. |
Post# 178004 , Reply# 24   4/22/2012 at 11:18 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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What age is your CTX David ? It looks like mid 90's, but I could be wrong.
I have a Philips 107 E Monitor for my Office PC, which is a Viglen Genie from 2006 (it is older than that, but was refurbished then so I consider it a 2006 machine) running Windows XP Professional, and the HDD has a total 7% of spare memory. I know, it is excruciating to load anything more than the calculator! I also have a spare flat screen monitor which used to be used for the living room computer before I got the bigger CTX, which is a Samsung Syncmaster 755 DFX and works great, but is just sitting stagnant in a pile of rubbish in the spare room just now until one of my current monitors bites the dust then it will be used again. Talking about excruciating - Dialing a mobile number on those old phones you have much be, eh ? The oldest phone I own is a 1990's BT Corded which I got from my Grandfather a few years ago. Works great! I think me and David would both agree - Old is the way to go! As for 2200W Vacuum Cleaners, they are totally ridiculous. My 1977 HOOVER Ranger uses 400W and cleans better than any high wattage motor you could make these days. Why ? Because of dirty fan technology and a damn good brush roll! If manufacturers want to make something really Eco, they should bring back dirty fans and beater bars, then they wouldn't need screaming motors to clean carpets. Anyone agree ? So - My Eco Vacuum Cleaner (which is actually a lot more Eco than any other modern one which claims to be) |
Post# 178005 , Reply# 25   4/22/2012 at 11:19 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178006 , Reply# 26   4/22/2012 at 11:25 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Oh, and I thought I'd mention I have in my cupboard an old early 2000's DAN PC tower (do you remember that brand ?) which crashed and still isn't working 100%, but I honestly can't be bothered fixing it up so it has been sitting in the cupboard for over a year. Suits me down to the ground! The only use I'll ever have for it is to use the CPU fan for another computer if and when I need one.
I also have another PC which also crashed, but this one is a horizontal computer branded as "Centreprise", which I know nothing about, so if you do, feel free to fill me in! |
Post# 178011 , Reply# 27   4/22/2012 at 11:43 (4,358 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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What is 'best' is a fusion of old-fashioned tried & trusted ideas and modern technology. That's what Numatic are doing. |
Post# 178012 , Reply# 28   4/22/2012 at 11:44 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178015 , Reply# 31   4/22/2012 at 11:54 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Ha ha that gave me a good laugh.
My '93 Philips U800 was made in Italy and works great, so maybe their stuff is OK... Some of it anyway! Talking of 98SE I actually have a 1997 Compaq Armada 4120 which runs 98SE every well, but some of the keys on the keyboard don't work so I have to use it with an external keyboard. |
Post# 178016 , Reply# 32   4/22/2012 at 11:57 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178020 , Reply# 34   4/22/2012 at 12:10 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178029 , Reply# 36   4/22/2012 at 12:36 (4,358 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Well thanks for hijacking the thread with the computer nonsense - those are not the same as vacuums - because largely thanks to online and offline repairs, the blueprints and user manuals etc that then link into "how-to-sites" and constant upgrades and shops like Maplin allow users and owners to doll up their old systems as new. What doesn't work sometimes is that old update patches can only go so far if you want to match the same efficiency as newer computers.
As the ex-owner of an old Numatic James - the one with the fixed 800 watt suction - I have to say that I prefer the extra oomph Henry provides - right at the end of the dust bag before it really needs to be emptied although I used to notice early on or half way through a bag that James began to suffer with suction problems. It's good that the machines can now start in a lower suction mode, but I don't think it is a prerequisite to being "eco friendlier," when the highest rating has often been 1100 watts at the most on Numatic machines to the best of my knowledge, or even 1000 watts - hardly likely to induce electricity charges against a similar Hoover tub vacuum with 1400 watts or more. Sebo is the same with the X range - the original white upright had 850 watts, the grey and black increased to 1000 watts and current ranges have 1150 watts to the top machine that has 1300 watts. Compare that to your Miele S7 and you'll instantly see which one runs the more power. Trebor - "what happens to the old product, whether working or not?" Well it comes back to an older thread I referred to before = cost of repair - fine if you are in the U.S where your country is much bigger than the U.K but I found it difficult to get some spares for machines I collected that did a great service for many years but because of their rarity, parts were difficult to source. A classic example is my old Moulinex Powerclean 1350 - a brilliant canister vacuum, made of thick plastics, great tubes and let down by a cord rewind system that couldn't be repaired unless I spent twice as much cash as it would have cost me on the machine alone to get the cord rewinder mechanism from France as well as ensure that the cord had a British plug on the end of it. The smaller cleaning tools were harder to get too. It's not just that we have moved into a disposable era - I think that happened in the 1980s when Americans used to transport their groceries in the brown bags that were recyclable - now everything is contained in oil based plastics that aren't always recyclable. Americans aren't to blame but they were responsible for good oil based products - Tupperware springs to mind here. Returning to the idea of "Eco" labelled vacuums though, how can ANY label be trusted? I refer to the rating plates on the back of vacuums here - the model may well say 900 to indicate the watts that it is supposed to give but the rating plate tells a different story: 500 to 700 watts. Surely then to benefit consumers, the marketing number should match the rating plate?? Hoover UK machines used to be really bad for this. So, even a 2200 "advertised" label may, in reality turn out to be 1800 watts at its strongest judged by the rating plate. |
Post# 178093 , Reply# 38   4/23/2012 at 05:13 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Well the higher the wattage the less I'll want to buy it!
I'd actually look for low wattage when buying a Vacuum Cleaner, as long as it was well made also of course, as low wattage doesn't always mean good design. I think I remember that thread, can't remember the name though... I think it was one I created. |
Post# 178211 , Reply# 39   4/23/2012 at 18:58 (4,357 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 178569 , Reply# 40   4/25/2012 at 18:17 (4,355 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 178627 , Reply# 42   4/26/2012 at 05:41 (4,354 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178661 , Reply# 43   4/26/2012 at 12:31 (4,354 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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twocvbloke - buying used might be cheaper but dependent on who you buy from doesn't automatically mean it's cleaner. See thread 16671, my post 178037 - bought a 2nd hand Sebo upright from a private seller from Gumtree - stank of dog and no matter what filters and new hose purchased by the seller had been fitted, it still smelt bad.
Unless you buy a reconditioned or refurbished vacuum from anyone AND they can state that it has been cleaned up to a good standard, you can't rely on it. I know it's different from collector to collector but for anyone else, it can be a bit of a faff - especially if you consider places like Cash Convertor, Cash Generator or even charity shops that deal in electrical appliances. PAT testing only goes so far and not all the tools are sometimes included. |
Post# 178692 , Reply# 46   4/26/2012 at 16:24 (4,354 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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The reason that some green machines are more expensive is because of the fan design of the motor. You will find that the fan cover will have a small sylicone based sal that seals the gap between the fan and fan casing, also he fan wil have a greater curve to it allowing it to suck in more air, the more cure the fa has the more expensive it is to make. They do this to get the same amount of power out of a 1200 watt motor as you would on a 2000 watt motor , HOWEVER NOTE I SAID SOME some manufactures just cheat.
On the green thing , Cape Town is very green as far as the in crowd goes and if you drive a monster v8 like I do you can get allot of flack. Especially from prius owners. I always tell them that my car is paid for , its old , its recycled and it will out last there prius 3 or 4 times over so its greener than there car. OOOh they get so cross hehehe I love it |
Post# 178760 , Reply# 48   4/27/2012 at 06:53 (4,353 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 178768 , Reply# 49   4/27/2012 at 08:01 (4,353 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178773 , Reply# 50   4/27/2012 at 08:47 (4,353 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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JM - well, that's one advantage of the older classic Hoovers compared to the TP ranges and beyond - the brush strips can be removed to be cleaned off unlike the bonded ones on the Agitators. Same with the commercial Sebo uprights. Removable brush strips you can clean off are really simple and replace in time instead of the whole brush roll.
I don't want to point fingers but Hoover UK may well have done very little to the Purepower Greenray and just made the claim. Their website always has inaccuracies! It is interesting to note that the actual Freedom based upright that has the Greenray name & body added to it now takes on the "Dustmanager" name. It has a 1300 watt motor but Hoover stated that it has 200 Air watts. So how can the Purepower Greenray have 290 air watts from a 1200 watt motor? Something isn't quite right here and I've pulled up Hoover before because of their poorly misleading information! |
Post# 178775 , Reply# 51   4/27/2012 at 08:49 (4,353 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 178776 , Reply# 52   4/27/2012 at 08:51 (4,353 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 178785 , Reply# 54   4/27/2012 at 10:16 (4,353 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 178936 , Reply# 57   4/28/2012 at 08:16 (4,352 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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I was just looking through the Coopers of Stortford magazine I got with the paper today and saw a cylinder Vacuum Cleaner which looked fine, and wasn't too expencive, but I had two problems with it.
The first was my pet hate, a "life time" bag, but that was't the worst bit. 2400 WATTS!! Absolutely ridiculous. |
Post# 178939 , Reply# 58   4/28/2012 at 08:21 (4,352 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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There should be a limit to how much you can drink and still post here, ha ha!
As for plastic quality, I've never seen a better quality plastic in my life than the one on my 1977 HOOVER Senior Ranger. It is so damn strong! And the important bits, like the floor pan and handle, are made from metal so not to wear over time. Go back to old engineering HOOVER, you made things better then! |
Post# 178970 , Reply# 60   4/28/2012 at 13:08 (4,352 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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So that's why it took you so long to reply eh ?
Yep I suspected it was simply the thickness of the plastic on older appliances that made them strong. You have a fair point that as things get more advanced and have more accessories fitted to them the plastic has to get thinner to keep the item small. |
Post# 179109 , Reply# 62   4/29/2012 at 11:10 (4,351 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 179335 , Reply# 64   4/30/2012 at 05:25 (4,350 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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So why do you need one ? Only kidding!
I've never heard of ANYBODY using Medium Density Fibreboard for a shed roof, that is absolutely ridiculous! MDF + Water = Absorption, swelling and weakening. The builder (if you could stretch to that loose term) who made your shed obviously wasn't absorbed in the other sense of the word. |
Post# 179336 , Reply# 65   4/30/2012 at 05:27 (4,350 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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My shed on the other hand, although required a repair as I said, is made to very high standard.
The actual walls and floor are the original it was built with 50 years ago, and the only new part is the roof joists and the roof itself. Same with the garage, 50 year old walls and new roof. They don't make wood like they used to. |