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Thread Number: 16671
Are Bag Check Indicators To Be Trusted? |
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Post# 177742 4/20/2012 at 15:35 (4,380 days old) by bagintheback  (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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Normally I forget about bag check lights when I get a vacuum that has one, but I'm not sure about the one on my Riccar Brilliance. On any other vacuum, the light will normally come on if I place my hand over the hose, blocking off all the airflow. But on the Riccar, this does not happen.
So should I leave the bag in until the vacuum tells me to change it, or should I decide myself? Do any of you know of a vacuum that has an efficient bag check light that really does work? | ||
| Post# 177753 , Reply# 1 4/20/2012 at 16:15 (4,380 days old) by kirby (passadena md) | ||
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I would say no. I cheak my vacuum bags by fealing the dirt in the bag. plus I throw away the bag before it gets half way to the full line on the bag. Hope this helps. david | ||
| Post# 177755 , Reply# 2 4/20/2012 at 16:25 (4,380 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
I've never had a Vacuum Cleaner that has had a Bag Full indicator that actually tells you to change the bag when it should be changed.
All the ones I've used do just what the name suggests - Indicate when the bag is FULL. I mean that literally. I check my bags regularly and replace them when they get to 2/3 full. Just to prove my point, I did once let the 1994 HOOVER Turbopower go on and on with the same bag deliberately just to see when the light would illuminate, and by the time it did, the bag was so full there was literally NO suction getting to the hose. Same with my 2008 JMB SC1056 which has a piston indicator. I can't remember who said it but somebody said on here that the reason manufacturers design the indicators to activate when the bag is packed full is because to the general consumer a bag doesn't need changed until it is as filled as it can be, and if the indicator suggested otherwise, they would think the manufacturer was trying to get more money from them by getting them to replace the bags more often. Of course another incentive is that repeatedly running a Vacuum Cleaner until the bag is so full the suction is cut will wear the motor over time and eventually prove fatal, resulting in another sale for the manufacturer. Luckily us Vacuum Cleaner collectors know to use our own discretion and change the bag before a wrongly programmed light/piston tells us to! At least I HOPE we all know that - I certainly do. Perhaps I'm too over-kill, but I'd rather be over-kill than actually kill my motor! Sorry about the rather long winded response, but you did ask for it when you posted something I have a view about, ha ha! | ||
| Post# 177760 , Reply# 3 4/20/2012 at 17:18 (4,380 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA) | ||
I have only had two machines with bag check/performance indicators - my Kenmore Whispertone canister and the Kenmore/Sanyo Let's Clean canister. The Whispertone canister never seems to show red on its mechanical indicator unless I put my hand over the hose. I change the bag when the suction drops noticably. The Let's Clean has a scale type indicator that seems to go toward red often as I need to wash the filter most likely.
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| Post# 177761 , Reply# 4 4/20/2012 at 17:20 (4,380 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Aerus-Electrolux Canisters....
Are the only vacuums I find with reliable bag check lights or indicators. Others I have found will warn you only when there is so little suction, there is hardly any cleaning going on, & putting the motor under more stress than it should.
What I like about the bag check on the Aerus-Electrolux vacuums is that they are "Automatic Control" & can be custom suited to any home's cleaning needs. For my situation, where I pick up lots of sand & fine dust, it is ideal, because a normal bag check light would warn after the vacuum has lost all of it's power; this way, I keep it running at peak efficiency at all times. Rob | ||
| Post# 177774 , Reply# 6 4/20/2012 at 19:30 (4,380 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 177873 , Reply# 8 4/21/2012 at 17:53 (4,379 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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While I was reading the latest posts on this thread I remembered that my 1982 Electrolux 502S has a whistle indicator, which actually is accurate, but only if you set it to the correct number so that it whistles when the bag is at the level you want it to get to before changing.
I however forgot to check what number it whistled at when I last changed the bag so I can't use it this time, but when the bag reaches 2/3 full again I'll see when it whistles by turning it on with the full bag and rotating the knob, and keep it at that for future reference. One piston indicator that is very unreliable is the one in my 2000 Electrolux Tango, which displays red whenever the cleaner is running even with an empty bag and clean filters with no blockages. God knows why it does that but there you go. | ||
| Post# 177875 , Reply# 9 4/21/2012 at 17:58 (4,379 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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As much as I see your point Ray, it is pretty obvious when a Vacuum Cleaner has a blockage as the tone increases so much you'd have to be deaf not to hear it.
I've noticed that quite a few Vacuum Cleaners on sale these days don't have Bag Full indicators, probably because of the reasons we're discussing now! | ||
| Post# 177903 , Reply# 10 4/21/2012 at 21:29 (4,379 days old) by luxlover (Halifax NS Canada) | ||
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I agree they cant be trusted, My fully gray electrolux ambassador III is suppose to turn off or not turn on when the bag is full, but like others ive done a test i let it go untill it wouldnt turn on and for that to happen the bag is so full it about to come out the hose connect inlet... | ||
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Post# 177904 , Reply# 11 4/21/2012 at 21:38 (4,379 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640) |
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I know they're vintage, but
the old Dial-A-matics worked. The Convertible bags have that dotted line with a note. Also. if they had the springs instead of the "diving board" the vinyl bag tended to "bounce" when full. We all know to check our bags frequently.
To jump back to Contemporary, I've seen HOOVER Elites, etc, thrown to the curb because the bags were packed! Several times, after a good cleaning and a new bag, they were good to go.Can you imagine what these people's kids' diapers were like? | ||
| Post# 177905 , Reply# 12 4/21/2012 at 21:50 (4,379 days old) by raycarter (Taylor, Michigan) | ||
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Jeff Foxworthy said it best; "If you think the six to ten pounds rating.on the side of the diaper.box indicates how much the diaper will hold, you might be a redneck." | ||
| Post# 177952 , Reply# 13 4/22/2012 at 05:32 (4,378 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a phrase that comes to mind!
I don't understand people who throw Vacuum Cleaners out because the bag is full. When I picked up my 1994 HOOVER Turbopower from the dump it worked great but the only problem was the "Twice Use" bag had been used twice and needed replaced, but instead of buying another bag, they threw a good condition perfectly working (the belt wasn't even slipping!) Vacuum Cleaner away and are probably sitting now with a crappy bagless cleaner that is clogging up all the time wondering why they ever got rid of their reliable Turbopower. | ||
| Post# 178037 , Reply# 14 4/22/2012 at 13:44 (4,378 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Well JM one reason alone to why people chuck out vacuums with a full bag isn't because it has a full bag - not in the thrift finds I've found over the years - it's because the machine is so fully clogged up through the dust channels and system that the previous owner couldn't be ars*d to clean the machine out. This is a common problem I found with a lot of Turbopower uprights, more notably the channel from the roller brush to the bottom of the hose at the back of the vacuum as opposed to through the hose leading to the bag.
I also bought a 2nd hand Sebo X4 about 5 years ago now from a private seller off Gumtree in Glasgow. I wondered why the Sebo X4 was going for £40 on the basis that even second hand the prices are above £100 usually. When I got to the home, the home was really well designed, nice and clean and.. they had 4 dogs. When I looked at the machine it had suffered a few scratches - but when I tested it there and then the Odour of the dogs came right through and the seller was good enough to admit that he had tried to put a new hose on it but still the smell of dog was still very much apparent. So we haggled the price down to £20. By the time I got it home and took apart the main floor head, all was apparent to where the odour was coming from - years of pet hair had gunked up the main dust channel pivot and couldn't be accessed unless you took the machine apart. I also washed out the "new hose", tools main filter channel, good as new and all it took was a good inspection and some time to clean it out properly. I sold it on after restoring it to good form for 4 times the price I paid for it - £120! Clearly owners don't always know how to clean out their machines fully - it's the same with refurbished appliances from several stores like Cash Converter or Cash Generater - they are PAT tested, but that's about all. At least online, several sellers who do sell refurbished vacuums have models that are internally cleaned to the point that almost everything is sparkling/neutral to the nose! | ||
| Post# 178049 , Reply# 16 4/22/2012 at 14:39 (4,378 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 178053 , Reply# 17 4/22/2012 at 15:16 (4,378 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa) | ||
 The problem with manual bag full indicators is how they work, they rely on the suction genirated by the motor to move. The problems with this is that they need almost full lock suction to move thus only moving when the motor is ready to self destruct.
Electronic indicators are more reliable but still rely on suction to create a pressure that pulls on a rubber valve attached to a sensor or switch to get the light or sound to generate. However most are set to such a high setting they only come on when the bag is so full there is no suction. The good news is that most of these can be set via a tiny screw on the back of the valve.
We used to use the old brown sebo 360 machines and these had a great easy electronic system, you can set it with ease to come on when the bag is two thirds full to ovoid the staff over filling them | ||
| Post# 178056 , Reply# 18 4/22/2012 at 15:26 (4,378 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH) | ||
Didn't Miele's used to have.....
An adjustment screw next to the bag/airflow indicator on the 500 Series? Looked at my S5's and they don't have it.
I like this indicator better that electronic. I let it get about half way across and change the bag.....If the bag seems too full, I then only go about a quarter of the way across and then change the bag....Of course this does depend on what you are vacuuming. Mine is usually just regular household dirt. Bud Mattingly PR-21 | ||
| Post# 178102 , Reply# 19 4/23/2012 at 08:37 (4,377 days old) by Timey () | ||
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My old TurboMaster has the check bag indicator come on about 7 minutes after a new bag is installed, and it's all clean and lovely inside. I don't trust 'em... | ||
| Post# 178106 , Reply# 20 4/23/2012 at 08:52 (4,377 days old) by kirby (passadena md) | ||
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i wold just rather use my dyson no bags to be woried about | ||
| Post# 178112 , Reply# 21 4/23/2012 at 09:21 (4,377 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 178278 , Reply# 23 4/24/2012 at 07:15 (4,376 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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"Bags are cheap! Motors are expensive!" | ||
| Post# 178334 , Reply# 24 4/24/2012 at 12:30 (4,376 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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The worst piston valve bag indicators I found were on the Hoover Telios and Arriane models - they were poorly made and when dust leaked from the bag, you knew about it when you glanced down and could see fluff under the window! I'm not a fan of the mechanical types but I am aware that several brands make different ones as to the seals that they put and in some cases like Hoover, not much sealing! AS JM does refer to, feeling the bag physically is a better condition IF you want to get the highest value out of the bag before changing it. I don't think it has anything to do with being a collector though - many people check their bags if they know they haven't bought more to stock up on.
I must point out though that being a long term Hoover fan when I was younger, I realised that some of the cylinders they made which came with the SMS lifetime fabric dust bag would show the dust bag indicator as being full - this was a big downside because half the time the bag wasn't full and it was the effect of the fabric being sucked in. Hoover also made that mistake with their "Pure Filt" dust bags realising that their machines with the higher wattage of 1700 watts showed a fairer indication on the bag full indicator than machines with 1200 watts or less. This was all in the days before they had synthetic dust bags! | ||
| Post# 178662 , Reply# 25 4/26/2012 at 12:35 (4,374 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Personally JM, if I was up for buying another Hoover upright, I'd return to the original Freedom upright instead of going for the Greenray versions - Hoover charge £179-99 for that Freedom Greenray and you'd be getting a more modern filter system than the one fitted to the Purepower Greenray. That same 1200 watt motor was fitted to the Slalom I had and they were going for £100 last time I looked in Argos but they may not be on sale anymore.
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| Post# 178668 , Reply# 26 4/26/2012 at 13:41 (4,374 days old) by totalvac () | ||
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I wouldn't wait until the vacuum tells you the bag is full. Once a bag is about 1/2 full is starts effects how efficient the vacuum is. Make it easier to clean and change it before it's maxed out. | ||
| Post# 178683 , Reply# 27 4/26/2012 at 15:44 (4,374 days old) by alexhoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
Bag full indicators: Really to be honest bag full indicator lights are better for telling an everyday consumer if there is a blockage, yes to us vacuum collectors it is clearly obvious that there is a clog but to consumers they don't care what the vacuum sounds like and the brushroll would still pick up some bits on the carpet for the user not to notice unless they use the hose however and no suction comes threw it. The sebo bag full indicators are pretty acurate I remember mine being 3/4 full and there was not a high pitch (blockage sound) it just sounded like the airflow was restricted a little but the bag full light was flashing so i opened it up and had a look and the bag was almost full so I then replaced it. My turbopower 2 has never really got that full yet to make use of the bag check indicator however i think it will only really work if I was useing it in high power because there isn't enough suction in the low mode to engage the bag check light, I would have to have a non autosense turbo 2 with bag check light or use my autosense in high all the time to really find out if it is accurate. I think that the more suction you have from the machine the more sensative the bag full indicator light/piston will be as a more powerfull machine with alot of suction is trying to pull the airflow threw a nearly full bag hense the sensativity of a bag check light. However like I said at the begging I think bag full indicators are more useful for telling you the machine is blocked rather than the bag being full. Hope this helps, Alex. | ||
| Post# 181406 , Reply# 30 5/16/2012 at 21:27 (4,354 days old) by vacu-finder () | ||
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On some Vac's the indicator is a waste (bells & whistles) so to speak. On the other hand All the Electrolux'S i owned the bag check indicator worked flawlessly all the time...:) | ||
| Post# 181435 , Reply# 31 5/17/2012 at 01:38 (4,353 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 181488 , Reply# 33 5/17/2012 at 09:01 (4,353 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 181680 , Reply# 35 5/18/2012 at 16:40 (4,352 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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Another thing is the Electrolux Tango Z5001 had a safety feature where the bag door wouldn't close if there wasn't a bag fitted, so if the owner wanted to be "clever" and try to use it without a bag, they would probably think it had broken when the door wouldn't close. Better still, they'd probably break it themselves trying to force it shut.
Tut tut... | ||
| Post# 181686 , Reply# 37 5/18/2012 at 17:02 (4,352 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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And thank goodness for that feature eh ? Or else many cleaners would have been used bagless and thus eventually clogged up and been thrown out to the bin men. I suspect most of them met that fate anyway, when the owner couldn't use them bagless and was too parsimonious to buy more bags.
They have now probably gone through many bagless cleaners and wish they had that old reliable bagged cleaner again... Oh well. | ||
| Post# 181696 , Reply# 38 5/18/2012 at 18:09 (4,352 days old) by vacu-finder () | ||
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In response to your question jmurray01. On what Electrolux models was it that the indicator worked ? The models AP100 and AP280 Canadian models. Yes i had one act up, What happens usually is the plastic tubes get plugged with debris. | ||
| Post# 181697 , Reply# 39 5/18/2012 at 18:14 (4,352 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 182724 , Reply# 40 5/27/2012 at 14:21 (4,343 days old) by Alexhoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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The bag check light has stopped working on my hoover turbopower 2 autosense, it is an LED bulb obviously. I took the turbopower 2 apart today to check the carbon brushes and so on, put it all back together correctly with all the wires connected up right and now the LED bag check light doesn't work, I am not totally sure but I think it worked prior to me taking it apart, is it just a wild coincidence that the light burnt out? Is there a loose connection on the curcit board? even though everything looked to be right. I am not sure what to do with it, I don't think I am able to replace this bulb either am I? | ||
| Post# 182731 , Reply# 41 5/27/2012 at 14:50 (4,343 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 182736 , Reply# 43 5/27/2012 at 15:02 (4,343 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 182784 , Reply# 45 5/27/2012 at 17:50 (4,343 days old) by Alexhoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 182785 , Reply# 46 5/27/2012 at 17:52 (4,343 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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If it ain't broken... | ||
| Post# 182802 , Reply# 47 5/27/2012 at 18:25 (4,343 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 182803 , Reply# 48 5/27/2012 at 18:35 (4,343 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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Well it clearly has in this case ! | ||
| Post# 182867 , Reply# 49 5/28/2012 at 10:50 (4,342 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 182937 , Reply# 50 5/28/2012 at 15:33 (4,342 days old) by Alexhoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Thankyou vintageRrpairer! I took the bag box out of the turbpower 2 today and after the removal of it i was left to find that that little tube you were talking about to be not connected to the ducting, so I re fitted it and well I was there give the inside a good clean, put it all back together and what do you know we have the bag light illuminating again. Thankyou for your help it just didn't accure to me. | ||
| Post# 182949 , Reply# 51 5/28/2012 at 16:03 (4,342 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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You are most welcome. | ||
| Post# 182958 , Reply# 52 5/28/2012 at 16:19 (4,342 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 400115 , Reply# 53 10/28/2018 at 04:47 (1,998 days old) by jake1234 (greasby) | ||
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Bag Full Indicators I think pretty soon this will be an obselete topic anyway. The way things are going, cleaners are getting cheaper and cheaper, wether its piston or neon, soon there wont be any bag full indicators at all. | ||
| Post# 400148 , Reply# 54 10/29/2018 at 19:13 (1,997 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB) | ||
My only vacuum whita bag indicator is my Electrolux AP200 i tried it once and it came on shut off the vacuum i was suprise the bag was jam pack full andi mean FULL i wanted to see if it still work also comes on when ther is no bag and wont let you turn the machine on so it has 2 features for me i pick up alot of fine dust and sand i usually set my ap 200 indicator dust selector dial at 5 or 6 and let the vac light come on i hate changing bags every second week i also rebuilt the vacuum so shes good to go i usually change the bag a month at a time before the lights come on its usually pack half way or some time 3/4 but solid still so i put a new one in to be safe.
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| Post# 400158 , Reply# 56 10/30/2018 at 04:18 (1,996 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH) | ||
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Be sure when you buy DVC Bags that they actually say 4 ply. Some sellars are selling a two ply bag instead of 4 ply DVC. I also think the 4 ply DVC bags are better than the Home Solutions. If you want genuine 4 ply Electrolux Bags, try Ebay. You can find brand new old stock Germgrabber or Surething bags, which work great in my machines. I also keep the 4ply DVC Bags. I use those in a friends vacuum as he has pets. There is no dust in his bag compartment when the bag needs changed.
One more note. The best bag Electrolux made as far as I am concerned was the IOLTA bags.....
PR-21 Bud | ||
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