Sebo's Best Vacuum

For years I thought Miele were the master of their canister design and I still think that there is a lot of good in the machines, but the problem with Miele is that whilst the main body machines are light, everything else seems to be less thought out IMHO.

The standard twin telescopic height adjustable tubes on their own weigh close to 600g. Sebo's stainless steel tubing on the D series weighs 504grams and the cheaper ones supplied on the K series that have an outer sheathed plastic coating at the top with the metal telescopic at the bottom weighs 484grams - or close enough to 500g. The copied sebo handle on the Miele S5 handle weighs 280g on its own compared to Sebo's 200g handle. The Miele S5 has a 1.8 metre hose - the D series has 2.1 metres right across the board including the electrified hose on the D4 Premium.

Compared to the smaller K series when I owned my S371, S4210 and latest S6 series, the latter two machines are a lot lighter to carry but they all have the same hose measurement and twin suction pipes. Now, one could argue that the Miele suction pipes do give you an increased height, but the hose isn't long enough when compared to the bigger length that Sebo supply. I've noticed that I don't put my back out as much when I'm dragging a Sebo canister along the floor - certainly only when using suction only floor heads or at best, air driven turbo brushes together with the longer hose compensates on the tubing provided with the K series. Ultimately then the only work out you're doing at the time is stretching out the hose and being in control of the handle, pipes and floor head in front of you.

Equally though there are downsides - if you're desperate for the PN model, you do have to consider that the powerhead from the Felix is the same one, taken originally from the K series, so it is a lot heavier than Miele's PN heads will ever be - plus the electrified pipes on the D4 are also slightly heavier since they are taken from the K series to minimise extra costs. I'm not a fan of the D4 in general because of the heavier weight - it is a good compromise with all things considered - but the weight savings are best with the non-electrified versions as opposed to the D4 Premium.

The Felix upright on the other hand is a good machine but it is isn't very good when used as a hand held machine. I know Sebo were thinking "Vorwerk" when they produced that part of the design as an option, but I find the whole idea too bulky and much prefer to have the Felix using the PN supplied, or alternatively as a suction only model with the deluxe "Kombi" floor head fitted - thus changing it into a versatile hard floor cleaner - compared to using standard suction only floor heads, the Kombi allows the Felix to lay flat completely - none of this "park stub at the back" dragging along the floor like a standard, normal canister, or having to swing the handle at an angle to get the floor head to lay flat.

This is what I like about Sebo. They look at the design aspects first and the engineering in tandem. Sometimes it doesn't always work out - whilst I think the D is a fantastic rival to the Miele S5, the tools at the back of the machine are less thought out - when it comes to cleaning stairs, you have to think before hand what you'll need in terms of the smaller cleaning tool and get it before the machine is stored in the upright position for compact cleaning - Miele's trump card here is the better flap at the front.

It is true that whilst Sebo models lack a certain "chrome and bling," aspect compared to Miele, their thoughtfulness in other areas is more spot on for the customer rather than building to a mass design and then, kitting it out with less than thoughtful features - but it only takes the eagle eye of a consumer who has been ripped off or feels let down by the price they've paid : )


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Post# 176791 4/11/2012 at 18:04 (4,389 days old) by mieles7 (TX)
Checkrate/Likes Which of Sebo's vacuum do you think is the best. Just from what I've heard, the Felix is a great machine, and the D4 has a really cool design. What do you guys think?

Post# 176807 , Reply# 1 4/11/2012 at 21:03 (4,389 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Well I dont have a D4 but I do have a D2 - its about the same size as a Miele S5 and thus a canister vacuum compared to the Felix upright. Even though I'm an upright fan at heart, I like the range of the D2 coupled with the long hose, easy to use tools and that long travel cord. The filtration is also excellent and the machine is so easy to use - but it is a heavy vacuum thanks to the longer mains cord. Comparing the Felix is harder because it's not a proper canister vacuum. IMHO comparing the X series with the Felix is harder - if only Sebo updated the X to have the variable suction control and brush on/off control on the floor head, I'd be a happy cat! The Felix is good but the smaller dust bags are a bit of a downside even if the newer ones last longer (synthetic disposable compared to the older paper bags.) and I'm a fan of the automatic sensor head.

Post# 176810 , Reply# 2 4/11/2012 at 21:20 (4,389 days old) by mieles7 (TX)
Checkrate/Likes Interesting. I'd rather have a long cord on a canister then have it be super lightweight.

Post# 176822 , Reply# 3 4/11/2012 at 22:26 (4,389 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Well both the Felix or the D or the X are not super lightweight. It depends on the size of your home - whereas the Felix has a 3.5 litre dust capacity and 9.5 metre cable (similar to Miele's FJM capacity, but I find the Sebo bags tend to last that little bit longer), the D series has a 5.5 litre capacity and 12 metres of cable. Both bags feature fold over seal caps and synthetic material. I've recently stopped using my Miele S6 Ecoline on the basis that the tubing and floor head is beginning to get too heavy compared to the Sebo tubing on the D and different ones on the K.

Post# 176840 , Reply# 4 4/11/2012 at 23:29 (4,389 days old) by mieles7 (TX)
Checkrate/Likes What materials are used on the wands. The only thing that has to be lightweight on a canister are the hose and wands in my opinion.

Post# 176856 , Reply# 5 4/12/2012 at 04:44 (4,388 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)
Checkrate/Likes currently the felix hands down the best thing to come out of the factory in a long time. Overall the sebo 360 old brown models virtually indestructible, in commercial use there motors often lasted 10 or more years without any fault.

Post# 176861 , Reply# 6 4/12/2012 at 06:33 (4,388 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes For years I thought Miele were the master of their canister design and I still think that there is a lot of good in the machines, but the problem with Miele is that whilst the main body machines are light, everything else seems to be less thought out IMHO. The standard twin telescopic height adjustable tubes on their own weigh close to 600g. Sebo's stainless steel tubing on the D series weighs 504grams and the cheaper ones supplied on the K series that have an outer sheathed plastic coating at the top with the metal telescopic at the bottom weighs 484grams - or close enough to 500g. The copied sebo handle on the Miele S5 handle weighs 280g on its own compared to Sebo's 200g handle. The Miele S5 has a 1.8 metre hose - the D series has 2.1 metres right across the board including the electrified hose on the D4 Premium. Compared to the smaller K series when I owned my S371, S4210 and latest S6 series, the latter two machines are a lot lighter to carry but they all have the same hose measurement and twin suction pipes. Now, one could argue that the Miele suction pipes do give you an increased height, but the hose isn't long enough when compared to the bigger length that Sebo supply. I've noticed that I don't put my back out as much when I'm dragging a Sebo canister along the floor - certainly only when using suction only floor heads or at best, air driven turbo brushes together with the longer hose compensates on the tubing provided with the K series. Ultimately then the only work out you're doing at the time is stretching out the hose and being in control of the handle, pipes and floor head in front of you. Equally though there are downsides - if you're desperate for the PN model, you do have to consider that the powerhead from the Felix is the same one, taken originally from the K series, so it is a lot heavier than Miele's PN heads will ever be - plus the electrified pipes on the D4 are also slightly heavier since they are taken from the K series to minimise extra costs. I'm not a fan of the D4 in general because of the heavier weight - it is a good compromise with all things considered - but the weight savings are best with the non-electrified versions as opposed to the D4 Premium. The Felix upright on the other hand is a good machine but it is isn't very good when used as a hand held machine. I know Sebo were thinking "Vorwerk" when they produced that part of the design as an option, but I find the whole idea too bulky and much prefer to have the Felix using the PN supplied, or alternatively as a suction only model with the deluxe "Kombi" floor head fitted - thus changing it into a versatile hard floor cleaner - compared to using standard suction only floor heads, the Kombi allows the Felix to lay flat completely - none of this "park stub at the back" dragging along the floor like a standard, normal canister, or having to swing the handle at an angle to get the floor head to lay flat. This is what I like about Sebo. They look at the design aspects first and the engineering in tandem. Sometimes it doesn't always work out - whilst I think the D is a fantastic rival to the Miele S5, the tools at the back of the machine are less thought out - when it comes to cleaning stairs, you have to think before hand what you'll need in terms of the smaller cleaning tool and get it before the machine is stored in the upright position for compact cleaning - Miele's trump card here is the better flap at the front. It is true that whilst Sebo models lack a certain "chrome and bling," aspect compared to Miele, their thoughtfulness in other areas is more spot on for the customer rather than building to a mass design and then, kitting it out with less than thoughtful features - but it only takes the eagle eye of a consumer who has been ripped off or feels let down by the price they've paid : )

Post# 176866 , Reply# 7 4/12/2012 at 08:19 (4,388 days old) by DysonKing474 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Reply to #2* Guys we all know the sebo felix is the most kickass vacuum sebo has ever made its a prototype....well it was

Post# 176867 , Reply# 8 4/12/2012 at 08:33 (4,388 days old) by joshdonnell ()
Checkrate/Likes *My Thoughts* I personal choose miele over sebo anyday. Ive tried the felix and the d4. The first time i tried out both, in a vacuum store at first i tired the felix and was very nice . Then i tried the d4 it was quiet which i liked. But...they were no where bulid like miele. And did not retain oders very well and , the idea of having to put the green cap on the dust bag was dumb . They dont close them selfs like miele. I pulled out both bags on the sebos and starting coughing . For a allgery suffer thats not good. So over all i think with miele anything else compromise. Which is very true.i am not bashing Sebo they are still good vacuums. But after owning a miele i can say ....i wouldnt go back to anything .

Post# 176977 , Reply# 14 4/13/2012 at 10:01 (4,387 days old) by mieles7 (TX)
Checkrate/Likes Does the d4 have handle controls? (Suction level, p/n control, on/off)

Post# 176885 , Reply# 9 4/12/2012 at 11:28 (4,388 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes That's interesting but then following another thread that shows up the poor filtration aspects of dust sitting around the seal of a Miele GN bag, I beg to differ (see Post# 174269, Reply# 49 from gsheen). Yes, whilst the Sebo bags don't self seal, you can close the cap on the bag manually -and thus choose when you feel the time is right to change the bag rather than believe wholeheartedly in the piston mechanism bag fill indicator. Sebo bags are far cheaper than Miele's standard 4 in a box and when Miele initially launched the HyClean, I was one of the "first" UK consumers to contact them because the initial design didn't close properly, forcing Miele to re-design the bags because the ribbons inside kept catching on the internal seal cap. And, furthermore it would be interesting to know when you tested the Felix - was this before they launched the newer optional fit charcoal filter cartridge for pet owners that just came out last year? It's a lot better used in tandem with the new synthetic dust bags (which by the way, to anyone reading a big tip from me - you can shake the material dust bags free of dirt and actually reuse them again - I'm not a salesman so its a consumer ownership tip here!)

Post# 176900 , Reply# 10 4/12/2012 at 15:34 (4,388 days old) by Sanifan ()
Checkrate/Likes I like my Felix a lot. It handles like a dream - I can't think of another vacuum I've used that's as easy to maneuver. It's a real pleasure to use. It's weird, but the Felix is so mild-mannered and the powerhead is so restrained sounding that I almost feel it can't be cleaning that deeply. But apparently it is, as a lot folks testify to. I like it a lot. I don't have any other Sebos to compare to, but I do have a Windsor Versamatic and Versamatic Plus. Those are good solid vacuums. More suited to commercial use, I think, as they're somewhat heavy. The Felix is one of my favorite uprights for home use. I'm very interested in the D series vacuums. They sound very good.

Post# 176902 , Reply# 11 4/12/2012 at 16:39 (4,388 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)
Checkrate/Likes Joshdonnell The one thing I have never smelt on a sebo was a bad odour comming from the bag, Miele on the other hand has this problem no matter what filtration system they have. Don't get me wrong I love miele's I have 10 in my collection , most of them recent models, s5,s7 most of them top of the range models aswell with the charcoal filter. My Mother prefers the quietness of the miele so she has a s7cat&dog upright but she like many on this forum and lots of customers who come in to buy bags complain of one thing, bad smells after only a few uses. My s7 can vacuum 3 days before the bad smells start coming , none of my other vacuums do this bag less or bagged. funny thing is if you use the old paper bags you don"t get the smell but using any of the new bags and having pets you will get a smell. Miele knows about it too and are trying to solve the problem. as for those trap doors on the bags , they never seal properly. Im not saying they are bad vacuums at all they are wll built but no wear near as well built as a sebo. Have a look at how flimsy the tool cover lid is on the s5 you can actually bend it from side to side and there attachments are not what they used to be either. We sell more miele floor tools and hoses than any other premium brand vacuum. there market share here is not that big. most customers go through a hose a year. I do like the s7000 upright very very nice machine Gareth

Post# 176905 , Reply# 12 4/12/2012 at 16:43 (4,388 days old) by joshdonnell ()
Checkrate/Likes *Well* Its just my opinion . And my thoughts on what i think. Im not trying to aruge but stating my opinon . Not bashing either . Im not impressed with sebo. I tested both 2 a month away. And when i pulled the bad put the d4 for it was full and it looked like the miele bag with dirt showing thur .

Post# 176976 , Reply# 13 4/13/2012 at 08:34 (4,387 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Ah well, testing and owning are two very different aspects! When I tested the Oreck XL back in the 1980's I was impressed. When it came to ownership, it was less than successful. Same with a lot of products. I think Miele are missing a trick here with their uprights. Clearly for those who want an upright but aren't prepared to put up with the XL size that the S7 commands, or the price, Miele should consider producing a smaller upright. The D'Art and stick vacs were too compromised and serve as unique choices. Miele need a smaller upright IMHO since the stick vac is no contest for the Felix - the only saving grace my old S142 has it is lightweight to push but unless I source the newer 2011 dust bags for it than the older IntensiveClean bags, dust is liable to get clogged at the channel and fall out when not in use, coming through the floor head and on the floor. I've only ever filled one dust bag successfully in the 5 years ownership. The IntensiveClean bags lose a lot of suction available in the material design. Sanifan - My Felix has to clean short looped wool carpets for most of its time and then thick pile rugs. However, I find it a darn sight easier to just put the dial in the 3rd or 4th setting instead of the first two. Everything gets picked up, the Felix is so much easier to push and I'm not wearing out the carpet if I need to vacuum every day. The D series range is good, but it is bulky because of the extra long cord it has to accommodate and I would strongly recommend you try the models without the PN - but I have a strong feeling that the U.S only get the D4 model. Also I forgot to say that the hose on the D is slightly different to what has gone on before - at the bottom from where it is locked on the machine, it is wider and has a conical end and becomes smaller in width as it reaches the back of the handle. This was designed to minimise clogging. I find it invaluable when cleaning up after a lot of pet hair. Yesterday I had a minor drama with my Felix. I thought the PN was malfunctioning when it refused to come on. I had just finished doing upholstery cleaning with the hose and I kept pushing the brush on/off control but not a sound came out. Then I realised that I had not pushed the hose back in properly. I do forget that safety device brush roll stop function is there on the Felix - easy to forget if you have a Dart as well that doesn't shut off when the hose is removed!

Post# 176985 , Reply# 15 4/13/2012 at 12:37 (4,387 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)
Checkrate/Likes *Sebo's Best Upright* This is a very interesting thread as I know NOTHING about either a Sebo or Felix. I did catch two things: Khoi: Are you saying that you empty the synthetic bags and reuse them? Wouldn't you have dust everywhere? All I could think of was a time back in the 1940's when women were forced to dump out the old Hoover cloth bags and the Electrolux XXX bags. Gareth: Are your customers happy with having to replace a hose EVERY year? I sure would not be happy to buy an expensive machine and then be forced to replace it or a floor tool every year. Is this only the Miele's or is because of what they pick up or how they are used in your area? Thanks for the information. Now I will have to check out the web sites for these machines!

Post# 176995 , Reply# 16 4/13/2012 at 15:12 (4,387 days old) by Sanifan ()
Checkrate/Likes Hi, William. I believe Sebo_fan had mentioned reusing the new synthetic bags. I have not tried it myself so don't have any insight on it. My thoughts about the Felix is that it's a great upright for carpets and bare floor. The pivoting steering mechanism at the joint makes it so easy to turn. Using it as a handheld canister, however, is very cumbersome. I don't use it like that at all. I can see using it like that if you're cleaning a carpeted stairway, but moving around the house with the nozzleless body in your hand is very awkward. That's my one complaint about the Felix.

Post# 177028 , Reply# 17 4/13/2012 at 23:03 (4,387 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes williamr1248 - I have no idea who "khoi" is.. maybe it's me?? Anyway - Having the fold over seal cap ensures no dust leaks out. So I close the flap over, take out the bag, shake it from the bottom, grab another vacuum (usually my bigger X upright or D2 and let that take the dust out and let the dust fall out once the bag flap is opened up, usually with a crevice tool just at the entrance to take the bulky dust out. I'm left with a bag that has very little dirt left, especially if paper screeds from my shredder have built up most of the "dirt" in the Felix bag. I only do this if I haven't bought enough bags for my Felix, though I have plenty of the paper ones left over, the material ones last on average up to 3 months compared to the 2 months I get out of the high filter paper ones - PLUS you can't suck out the dust out of those ones due to the added filtration layers. Mieles: The D4 has suction control buttons - a newer design to the slider on the K3: See video link of a D4 in action. I miss that my D2 doesn't have that "bling" light control on the main button on the body. CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK

Post# 177049 , Reply# 18 4/14/2012 at 07:25 (4,386 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Another alternative to the D2 if you can't get it in the U.S is the Numatic Henry. I watched a good demo video of it recently on Go-Vacuum.