Thread Number: 15994
Current canister vacuums
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Post# 170554   2/22/2012 at 20:11 (2,958 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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I remember back in the 1990s and prior, Hoover and Eureka both had several power nozzle and straight suction canisters available. Of course Kenmore did as well and there was always Electrolux. Bissell and Dirt Devil only had one or two small ones, about like they do now.

But what happened to all of the canisters that used to be offered? Hoover and Eureka only seem to have uprights in stores anymore. In fact, the only canister Eureka I see now is the little Power Mite. I see no Hoover canisters aside from the one that comes with the Hoover Platinum upright. Kenmore seems to be the only brand that has a full line of canister machines (aside from Miele).

My thought is maybe after the uprights with on-board tools became commonplace (especially the bagless ones) that canisters just lost popularity. Still, it seems odd to me that people with little to no carpet seem to buy uprights instead of canister machines. I guess I'm just a canister guy since that's what we had when I was growing up, plus to me they are quieter than most uprights. (But of course I like uprights as well).





Post# 170558 , Reply# 1   2/22/2012 at 20:26 (2,958 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The last time I looked on the Hoover U.S site before they merged with TTi, I can remember seeing the Telios S3332(one of my favourite budget canisters here in the UK) as well as the Morphy Richards based Hoover Studio, in the U.S under the S1631 model number. Sadly I dont think either model did well in the U.S but then the Telios is by far more than a 15 year old design.

I do rather like the look of the Hoover Envy Hush. What a pity we have to put up with severely rubbish UK Hoover models compared to the brand in the U.S


Post# 170566 , Reply# 2   2/22/2012 at 22:16 (2,958 days old) by massagemiracle ()        

Funny that you bring this up, I was cruising thru Craigslist yesterday and there was a listing for a new Kenmore progressive, the husband had listed it because his wife refused to pull a vacuum around. He had to go buy her an upright.

Americans are lazy. I hear it all the time about how women hate to pull a vacuum around and would rather have an upright

instead.

I was in my friends vacuum store when an older lady from Germany came in wanting a new Miele Canister, she bought a new

quartz model. He tried to offer her a Miele S7 , she wouldn't even concider it. She went on to tell him that they would not even

sell that model in Germany, that it was made for Americans.

I also think that crappy design in some canisters is why they are going the way of the DoDo bird! I do like the Aniversary edition of the Hoover Canister. But my fave is always going to be the vintage vacuums. Can't beat them!


Post# 170568 , Reply# 3   2/22/2012 at 22:38 (2,958 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
The Opposing View:

I have never understood peoples' love of uprights.

A canister makes above-the-floor cleaning a breeze, and it gets under low furniture that uprights cannot. Filtration is better on many canisters, and bag changes? Change a Kirby bag, then change a Lux "C" bag in one of their canisters, and get back to me.

Me, I want my house CLEAN. And to me, that means having a vac capable of getting into every nook and cranny without undue hassle. I have never seen an upright that can give me that. If uprights are what some folks are used to, and they appreciate them, fine. But to say that an upright is more convenient somehow than a canister, I just can't see it.

I vacuum everything. I mean everything. I vacuum my TV, my lampshades, my curtains, my upholstery, my hard-surface floors, my picture frames, the pewter tea and coffee service that is in my living room, my blinds, the tops of door frames, the tops of window frames, the panels of doors, the top of the fridge, underneath the fridge, the coils of the fridge, all my books, my computer, my space heaters, my window air-conditioners, and the crumb tray for the toaster-oven. Everything. I vacuum my BASEMENT.

I know an upright can do above-the-floor cleaning, but I can have a quarter of the room cleaned while an upright owner is still fitting the adaptor for the hose.

I've never been able to understand why anyone thinks a canister is more trouble than an upright. If all vacuuming was huge swaths of carpeting, uprights would make a certain amount of sense, but it's not.


Post# 170593 , Reply# 4   2/23/2012 at 06:00 (2,958 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well, speaking as one that only has a Sebo K3 Premium, I can't stand the weight of the power head on the tubes and hose. I know you can take them off and that - and lets face it - most canisters come with interchangeable heads - but it is a bit of a nonsense having to do that each time you go from hard floor to carpet - I notice Bissell have bought out a hook up, flat down suction only floor head partition on their uprights and Bosch now claim they have an auto adjusting floor head that goes from hard floor to carpets automatically.

I still like uprights though = they have everything on board you need and those with brush stop functions are better and in some cases a lot more compact and lightweight. Downside is a short hose.


Post# 170594 , Reply# 5   2/23/2012 at 06:18 (2,958 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I like BOTH types of vacuum cleaners equally well.each has their jobs.

Post# 170603 , Reply# 6   2/23/2012 at 08:34 (2,958 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
RS:

"I can't stand the weight of the power head on the tubes and hose."

I've heard this before from upright owners, and it mystifies me. How is the weight of a power head even comparable to the weight of an entire upright? If you want HEAVY, you could hardly do better than a Kirby, seems to me.

And what do you upright owners do for stairs? I have a Sidekick for my Luxes, which makes easy, short work of carpeted stairs, leaving them fluffed and groomed edge to edge, front to back, tread and riser. The Sidekick also makes short work of cat hair on upholstered furniture.



Post# 170606 , Reply# 7   2/23/2012 at 09:09 (2,958 days old) by powermate1970 ()        
well.......

I have to agree with tolivac. I use both. Like Sandy, I vacuum EVERYTHING, but, running the risk of starting WW III, I'm going to add this. Lux's are for looks. Now I know that they are an american "classic", just like the hoover convertible. I own several of each, but if you want clean, there are MUCH BETTER chioces. As far as canisters go, Compact/tristar and the Royal metal tank vac's are a far better choice. I own and use both. Now, for the hardwood floor portion of our house, the kids use a kenmore canister, just for the simple fact that I'd "kill" them if they destroyed my tri star or my royal. I keep a couple of spare "whispertones" around here for the kids use. lol

Post# 170612 , Reply# 8   2/23/2012 at 10:32 (2,958 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Bill:

I have a TriStar CXL, and I agree - it's a superb vacuum for making certain everything gets clean, and stays clean for a while, due to its four-stage filtration.

The drawback to the TriStar is that it's a pain to store in the house I'm in, which is very tiny, with insufficient closet floor space available. It would have to have its hose removed each and every time I put it away, and that is a real hassle, because of the pigtail at the canister end of the hose. My Luxes are capable of being stored on end, much more "doable" in this space.


Post# 170618 , Reply# 9   2/23/2012 at 12:32 (2,958 days old) by Sanifan ()        
Lux...

I have limited experience with Electrolux tanks, but my impression is that they are fine bare floor and above floor cleaners. Still no firm opinion on the PN on carpet, but it seems many of my uprights clean carpet better.

As Sandy points out, they are a joy to store, being able to stand on end. Still, you have the canister and PN taking up floor space whereas an upright just has a single footprint. The Classic and older model Electroluxes do have a hanging loop on the PN wand, however, which is a nice touch.

I do like my Ultralux a lot on bare floor. No complaints about performance, there.

I find it puzzling that the Tristar CXL is regarded so much higher than a lot of other canister (though I do agree they are fantastic). Puzzled because other canisters, like the Electroluxes, use the same basic formula, and sometimes even the same motor. Yet the CXL is regarded as an undisputed classic. I guess the difference is the details, the execution of the various elements, and the PN.


Post# 170619 , Reply# 10   2/23/2012 at 12:47 (2,958 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Khoi:

The difference between a Lux and a TriStar is the four-stage filtration found in the TriStar, vs. the one-stage filtration found in the Lux. The TriStar filters through a paper bag, a cloth liner bag, a motor pre-filter and an afterfilter. The Lux depends entirely upon its single paper bag; there is not even an afterfilter (I'm speaking strictly about vintage Luxes and TriStars, not current machines, which have different filtration than the vintage machines did).

The classic Lux "C" bag is a very good one, even in its standard, non-HEPA iteration. But one filter cannot filter as much as four can, with the result that Luxes, like many other vacs, lets enough dust blow back into the room that you begin to see dust again a short time after vacuuming.

With my Luxes, the reappearance of dust occurs within half an hour. With the TriStar, it's much longer - several hours.

A TriStar CXL was worth every bloomin' nickel it cost, both in terms of cleaning ability, and durability. And the suction of Compacts and TriStars was always phenomenal. Lux did not catch up on suction until the Diamond Jubilee, and then it was with a motor that worked harder, but didn't last as long.


Post# 170627 , Reply# 11   2/23/2012 at 13:34 (2,958 days old) by powermate1970 ()        
Sandy

You hit it right on the head. Personally, for suction, my royal 4750 is better, but it only has 3 stages of filter. The royal has a hayden powerhead, which is better than most. My tri star powerhead is close, only because I have a couple of NOS VG I's and I've got one in it. I've never had a lux powerhead that has impressed me, and I've had PN 1-4 and a couple of later models too. Don't even get me started on the "braided" SHORT hose! lol

Post# 170629 , Reply# 12   2/23/2012 at 13:50 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Bill:

I will freely admit that Lux PN's were never the best. I've had them all from the PN-1 through the PN-5. The earlier ones are better about deep cleaning and grooming, but unless exquisitely well-maintained (new brushroll, bearings and belt at least every two years, as well as frequent cleaning and lubing), they're extremely noisy. The PN-5's "floating" design is not the best groomer, and I don't like its deep-cleaning ability, either. We won't even get into the PN-5's well-known tendency to break the screw mounts on its bottom plate. The Lux PN's I like best are the PN-2 and PN-4, because of their polished cast-aluminum shells, which don't crack or break, and don't have any paint to get scuffed and scarred. A little polish from time to time, and they look new forever.

The best PN's I've ever had were on later Kenmores, the Powermates with the little step-on pedal to adjust the brushroll for carpet pile height. Those things can really "bite" deep if adjusted properly. The last one I had, I used frequently on a very long-pile, very shaggy rya rug; it was capable of leaving the pile not only clean, but looking like it had just been raked.

The PN on the CXL is pretty good, though not quite the equal of the Kenmores. A TriStar PN will need a new swivel neck from time to time; they wear and get "floppy." It's only an annoyance, but I likes me a perfect machine.


Post# 170630 , Reply# 13   2/23/2012 at 13:55 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
P.S., Bill;

There is a sure cure for the irritating short braided hose on Luxes - replace it with a new, genuine Aerus vinyl hose. BIG difference in convenience, and usually in suction, too - most vintage braided Lux hoses are leaking at least a bit by now. The vinyl hose is more flexible, and it's longer.

I also like it that the genuine Aerus hose swivels and has the same suction control as the original hose. There are some very decent aftermarket hoses out there, but I like original parts if possible, and the manufacturer's replacement part if an original is NLA.


Post# 170633 , Reply# 14   2/23/2012 at 14:11 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Oops!

In my post above, I referred to the PN-4 as having a polished aluminum shell like the PN-2.

As any Lux aficionado knows, there were PN-4s with painted aluminum shells, as well as the polished aluminum version.

I do NOT want Aeoliandave getting on to me (ducks and runs)!


Post# 170636 , Reply# 15   2/23/2012 at 15:09 (2,957 days old) by powermate1970 ()        
LMAO!!!

but remember, the PN-4 had 3 versions that I know of. aluminum, brown, and gold. I'm kinda keeping an eye out for a PN-4B (I think) Anyway, the brown one. lol I do have a really nice "olympia" that I wouldn't mind putting together. Do you know anybody looking for an electrolux CB? I've been trying to get this "beast" out of the basement and gone for 2 years! lol

Post# 170640 , Reply# 16   2/23/2012 at 15:36 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Bill:

I'd normally be itching to get that CB from you! Sadly, I'm going through a job transition right now, so until things firm back up a bit, I have to be good.

I remember you offered that machine around here several weeks ago. I thought for SURE someone was going to snatch it up!



Post# 170645 , Reply# 17   2/23/2012 at 16:23 (2,957 days old) by powermate1970 ()        
Sandy

if you want it, its here. I see you are in waterloo. Thats not all that far. I get up to the JD plant to deliver every now and again. The company I work for is working at the foundry.

Post# 170668 , Reply# 18   2/23/2012 at 18:53 (2,957 days old) by sanifan ()        
Rotomatic...

Any thoughts on using a Rotomatic PN with a CXL? I understand they are a very good PN. Any thoughts about using an adapter or modding it for friction fit?

Lol, I actually have one. Just haven't had time to mate it to the Tristar.


Post# 170720 , Reply# 19   2/24/2012 at 04:08 (2,957 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
How is the weight of a power head even comparable to the wei

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From what I can gather, although power head added canisters appears to be lighter from their smaller footprint, it is the ratio in which the weight of the vacuum is determined by the actual power head and tubes rather than using a canister for above the floor cleaning.

The Sebo floor head in question that I use, is the ET-H - That weighs 2kg on its own. Now, if you were to buy comparative bags of sugar - try tying that onto a pole and see how easy it is to shift around! It ain't easy but the SEBO head is easier to float because of its wheels underneath. I totally understand that not all power heads are heavy - but the SEBO's mechanism with the cord built into the exclusive metal telescopic tubing compared to their cord-without-tubes is also heavier. You then have the extra heavy weight of the 1.8 hose which also has an embedded cord built into it compared to the hose without on lower priced models.

With floor head added, plus the tubes you're looking at an overall weight factor with the Sebo K3 Premium totalling 8kg - about the standard weight of an upright vacuum. Go beyond that and yes, the canister idea is probably still going to be even lighter than average upright vacuums - not necessarily Kirby which I think is a bit extreme to compare.

Henry Hound models that use their power heads also have a heavier suction tube and bulkier hose, because an electric element runs through it. Whilst the procedure is seamless for cleaning, the use of the hose independently is bulkier and heavier.

You ask how I clean stairs? See the promo pic of Sebo X upright - I do similar and I also have an extra hose available, so even if I have to go further, the upright can either be lifted to one more step or tag another hose on. You could well argue and say that the extra hoses can't be stored on the machine like ones you get with the canister - but then again, not many canisters allow you to put on any other cleaning accessory other than the default small suction only cleaning tools.





Post# 170722 , Reply# 20   2/24/2012 at 05:44 (2,957 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Like Sandy,I will vacuum everything I can with the dusting tool on one of my canisters.I have plenty to choose from-including a TriStar CXL I bought new years ago.All of my canisters get their turn.Presntly its a Riccar 1700 and the Sebo D4.I can use the Kirby Dust bush on the Riccar-works really well on it.and of course the giant soft dust brush that Riccar provides-use that on the TV screen.I save the Big soft brush just for the TV.For the carpets-its the Sanitaires turn.Give the Kirbys and Royals a rest.Next upright may be the Koblentz.I would like to see if the Sanitaire ST bag assembly fits it.Like the ST bags better than the F&G ones.I did buy a CASE of F&G bags (Eureka) from the swap shop in chocowinity-I go there regularly-you never know what Mr Mayo finds.He pointed out the box of bags to me.

Post# 170725 , Reply# 21   2/24/2012 at 06:25 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
RS:

While I don't have a photo to offer, I can tell you what I use for stairs.

I have an American Electrolux 1205 from 1973, with an Electrolux Sidekick, a miniature power nozzle introduced some years later. The Sidekick attaches directly to the end of the electrified hose.

This combination means that stair carpet can be vacuumed and brushed in one go, very quickly. I find it very convenient.

The Sidekick attaches as quickly and easily as the dusting brush or any other above-the-floor tool. It's also great for vacuuming up pet hair on upholstered furniture; even the messiest divan or chair can be cleaned in one pass. The Sidekick's brush roll is nicely aggressive, so it really fluffs and grooms carpet.


Post# 170726 , Reply# 22   2/24/2012 at 06:38 (2,957 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well I'm just offering a response to your upright theory. Also does the sidekick store on the machine itself or any part of the hose when not in use? I don't tend to use stair cleaning tools unless I'm cleaning for someone. My normal stairs aren't very high and I just use the T shaped suction-only upholstery tool to do the carpets.

I've also lived with canister vacuums and they are easier to use on stairs due to their shapes - but again that detracts the viewpoint of the actual larger main floor head that is powered. Canisters are therefore far more versatile, but they involve a lot of changing this, changing that - uprights don't have that problem, reversing the need to change up unless you have a model that doesn't have a brush roll on/off on the main floor head.


Post# 170732 , Reply# 23   2/24/2012 at 07:28 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
RS:

On vintage American Electroluxes, only the dusting brush is stored on the canister itself, though more recent machines and other makes offer on-board storage. With my Electroluxes, I use a plastic cleaning supplies caddy to hold each cleaner's tools; very convenient to carry around.

The only things I change on my canister are the same things one would change on an upright. If I want to do above-the-floor cleaning, I remove the power nozzle and fit whatever tool I want for the job at hand. If I want to vacuum a hard floor, that can be done with the power nozzle, or I can fit the floor tool. It's not fiddly to me, but perhaps others see it differently.


Post# 170736 , Reply# 24   2/24/2012 at 09:16 (2,957 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Sandy, your preference for canisters is of course your personal opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it.

But there are other vacuum fanatics like me who do indeed see the benefits of upright vacuum cleaners. My personal belief is that the attempt to combine the two kinds of vacuum cleaner into one has never been that successful. I believe that a home can be served better by two vacuums: an upright to clean carpets, and a canister to clean everything else. I usually start cleaning a room with my canister - starting from high places like dusting the top of bookeshelves and ending up at the bottom like cleaning under the bed and dusting the baseboards. I finish off the room by using the upright. For daily cleaning of high traffic areas, a quick once over with my Hoover upright is the most efficient way to get the job done well and fast.

As I mentioned before, my personal feelings are as follows.

Canisters can not clean carpets as well as uprights for the following reasons:
1. The electrified hoses are far too heavy.
2. The pistol grip or gas pump handles are far too bulky to allow them to squeeze into tight spaces
3. You can't easily clean from the far end of the room and procede backwards towards the door or entryway as you have to constantly move the canister backwards out of your way.
4. I disagree that canister power nozzles can clean that much farther under beds than an upright. Most canisters don't allow you to put the wands and nozzle flat to the carpet to get far under the beds - the nozzle rises up and it stops contacting the carpet. If I don't want to move the bed, I need to use a regular canister's tool like a regular carpet nozzle or upholstery nozzle to reach far under the bed - the power nozzle can not do the job anyway.
5. According to Consumer Reports, there are very few canisters with power nozzles that rate an "excellent" in deep carpet cleaning of medium pile carpets. There are far more uprights that get this "excellent" mark.

No need to repeat the long list of reasons supporting the idea that uprights don't offer the convenience of a canister for above-the-floor cleaning: short hoses, inconvenient "carpet to tool" conversion set-ups, dangerous spinning brushes that can damage toes and fingers and flooring and other surfaces while in "tool mode", uprights that can easily tip over when cleaning in "tool" mode, weak airflow through the hose, etc.

I disagree with your comment that uprights are heavy. There are many lightweight uprights that way under 20 pounds that clean carpets with excellence. My Hoover Tempo Widepath weighs only 16 pounds.

Again, it's all a matter of personal preference. Many vacuum fanatics swear by the benefits of a Rainbow canister. I could not see myself dealing with a tank-ful of dirty water every time I finished cleaning my home.


Post# 170737 , Reply# 25   2/24/2012 at 09:16 (2,957 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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sorry....."weigh under 20 pounds" - not "way" :-)

Post# 170740 , Reply# 26   2/24/2012 at 10:15 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Brian:

As you say, much of this issue is a matter of preference. But I think some of your defense of your preference doesn't quite match up to my experience or observations:

You say: Canisters can not clean carpets as well as uprights for the following reasons:

1. The electrified hoses are far too heavy.

I am puzzled as to how the weight of a hose might affect cleaning ability. A hose is a hollow tube through which air passes. Whether that tube weighs one pound or fifty is immaterial; the diameter of the hose and the airflow through it are what would seem to have an effect on cleaning ability.

2. The pistol grip or gas pump handles are far too bulky to allow them to squeeze into tight spaces

I am no fan of gas pump handles; they're clunky and awkward. I've never had any difficulty getting a pistol grip handle anywhere I needed it to go. I also note the presence of grips on the hoses of uprights.

3. You can't easily clean from the far end of the room and procede backwards towards the door or entryway as you have to constantly move the canister backwards out of your way.

Granted. This is one of the quirks of canisters. Every design has its quirks, and different designs offer trade-offs with each other. Rear-wheel drive cars are cheaper to make and repair, but they're awful in snow. Front-wheel drive cars are much better in snow, but repair costs are higher. It's like that with vacs - some canisters can do things some uprights have trouble with.


4. I disagree that canister power nozzles can clean that much farther under beds than an upright. Most canisters don't allow you to put the wands and nozzle flat to the carpet to get far under the beds - the nozzle rises up and it stops contacting the carpet. If I don't want to move the bed, I need to use a regular canister's tool like a regular carpet nozzle or upholstery nozzle to reach far under the bed - the power nozzle can not do the job anyway.

Depends on your power nozzle. Some are designed so that giving the handle a twist allows the power nozzle to go completely flat to the floor, in a straight line with the handle - Kenmore PNs do this. Straight-suction floor and rug tools can do this, too, if they're designed to swivel. It is true that not every manufacturer's tools do this easily, and some don't do it at all. Not every upright has the same features as every other, either.

5. According to Consumer Reports, there are very few canisters with power nozzles that rate an "excellent" in deep carpet cleaning of medium pile carpets. There are far more uprights that get this "excellent" mark.

If someone chooses a brand with poorer cleaning ability, I don't see that as an overall indictment of canisters, merely an indication that some people don't do their homework. Would you say that the performance of a $19 Dirt Devil stick from Wal-Mart is equal to the performance of a Kirby Sentria?

As you and others here have correctly noted, uprights have the largest market share, and I think it's fair to say that more design dollars can be spent on them as a result. With the exception of Miele, no canister manufacturer is doing very much at present to innovate, because only Miele seems to have sales growth in this segment. And that's not good, because it means that canisters can't get better until manufacturers care about making them better, which won't happen until they see the possibility of profit. But good canisters, like a TriStar CXL? I'll put mine up against any upright out there, because I have seen the thing pull up dirt a Kirby missed, and extend the time between steam cleanings of off-white carpet dramatically.


Post# 170741 , Reply# 27   2/24/2012 at 10:21 (2,957 days old) by isufan11 (Des Moines, IA)        
IMHO

In My Humble Opinion I sue both, for daily runs or a quick tidy up before unexpected company I use an upright, for me it is just easier to plug in and rush around in a hurry. When I have time to do floor to ceiling cleaning I prefer a canister, to me they just seem so much more nimble to get into tight spaces. I personally feel that the weight of the vacuum has nothing to do with how well it will clean, I feel it is all about the suction. I have a Eureka whirlwind that weighs upwards of 20 pounds and it has no suction compared to my Kenmore Canister.

Now my mom is 100% opposite of me they have a Beam Central Vac with he hideaway hose that goes into the walls so it is more than convenient and she refuses to use it, would use her Riccar Radiance, even on the wood floors.


Post# 170743 , Reply# 28   2/24/2012 at 10:35 (2,957 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Yes Sandy - the design of an electified hose and handle for a power nozzle canister should not have been listed as affecting cleaning ability. It should have been listed as making above-the-floor cleaning less convenient. It is far easier to use the lightweight and simple hoses of suction-only canisters for above-the-floor cleaning. Sorry for the confusion....

By trying to make a canister clean carpets as well as an upright, you end up with designs that make it less convenient to do above the floor cleaning. Cleaning an entire bookcase with the lightweight hose and long sleek hose-handle of my suction-only canister, is a far less tiring job than using the heavy electrified hose and gas-pump handle of my mom's Kenmore Progressive power nozzle canister. And sneaking my canister's sleek hose handle behind my toaster oven in the kitchen is far easier to do than with the bulky Kenmore handle. It would be even worse now that Kenmore has added tool storage compartments to the handle on their new canister models. Of course, Dyson has really made it a chore to clean book-cases or car interiors with their power nozzle canisters, because you can not disconnect the telescopic wand from the hose and must use it whenever you clean.

To me, it makes very little sense to try and redesign a canister vac to accommodate an electric power nozzle. You lose too much of the convenience of a canister vac. And there are often problems with electrical connections failing in the hose and wands and power nozzle. I'd much prefer to have 2 separate vacs.


Post# 170744 , Reply# 29   2/24/2012 at 10:43 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Jon:

My own strategy for those quick pick-ups is a good old-fashioned carpet sweeper from the Fuller Brush Company. Excellent pickup, and fast as can be.

Note that this sweeper is the No. 101 sweeper with twin brush rolls, not the No. 100 commercial model with vinyl rotor blades. The commercial unit is intended for quick pickup of wet messes in restaurants, and doesn't perform all that well on home carpet.

And, I freely admit, both are uprights. ;-)


Post# 170746 , Reply# 30   2/24/2012 at 10:52 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Brian:

I could NOT agree with you MORE about gas-pump handles. They are bulky, clunky and very possibly the work of a Satanic cult wanting to give us all a preview of Hell while we're still here on Earth. In other words, I hate 'em.

The current TOL Kenmore canisters are "featurism" run amok, I feel. You know what I mean, some designer out of any real ideas says, "Let's add a FEATURE!" This is what causes idiotic crap like hose-mounted controls. However, it's the same mentality that causes, say, Kirby to push paint sprayers and Handi-Butlers when it's very clear that very few people find any real need for those features. Stuff like this is intended to dazzle on the sales floor, and to heck with how necessary it is once the customer has forked over his cash.

I still confess I don't understand the objection to the weight of a canister hose. I'm never even aware of it. Never.


Post# 170749 , Reply# 31   2/24/2012 at 11:15 (2,957 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Sandy...truth be told, the electrified silver-coloured hoses on the power nozzle canisters made by Sweden's Electrolux (also found on post-1985 Eurekas) and by Miele seem to be quite lightweight. The electrified hose on the Dyson Motorhead also is pretty light.

The heavy hoses on the Kenmores and Panasonics are the ones that I find a chore to use. They may be very durable, but I found using a Kenmore hose to clean a short stretch of curtains to be really tiring on the arms.

Just to let you know, I am soooo happy with the upright/canister duo I have now. My 16 pound Hoover Tempo Widepath Upright cost me only CAD$120 with tax, and my little Electrolux UltraSilencer Green cost me only CAD$400 with tax. I live in a very small bachelor/studio apartment and the 2 vacs take up very little room in my closet. I plan to get one of those hanging tool storage bags sold with central vacs to get the Electrolux tools off the floor.

Anyhow.....as I said before...it's all about personal preference. I have a friend who thinks I am nuts to dust a bookcase with a vacuum cleaner - "I don't know why you just don't use a rag....." (He does not understand the joy I get from vacuuming! :-D


Post# 170751 , Reply# 32   2/24/2012 at 11:39 (2,957 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Brian:

Tell your friend the point of vacuuming is to get the dirt out of the house. All rags and dusters do is to move it around. Polishes and sprays can help, but still, there's no joy like taking a full dust bag OUT to the trash, knowing that bit of dirt is gone from your life, forever.

If Kenmore makes a more durable hose than it used to, that's great. I had an '80s TOL Whispertone that had to be tossed due to a disintegrating hose, which was epidemic on those models, which were made by Panasonic. To make matters worse, Sears got into some kind of megillah with Panasonic, who stopped supplying hoses to Sears. You simply could not get a hose for a long while there.

Aerus's replacement vinyl hoses for vintage Electroluxes are far lighter, more flexible and longer than the stiffer, heavier, shorter braided hoses they replace. TriStar's vinyl hoses are really nice, too.

You mentioned something I've never had trouble with, but I know others have - faulty or burnt PN connections at hose ends. That seems to be caused by ignoring an instruction usually found in the vac's manual - you should turn a cleaner OFF before plugging or unplugging the PN. If you try to do it "on the fly," you will cause sparking at the connections, contributing to burnt contacts and failure. Failure to plug the connector in firmly also does this. Also I am amazed at how many appliance plugs I see with half the prongs hanging out of the outlet - a lot of folks are evidently too lazy to plug things in firmly. We won't even get into how many people yank on the cord to unplug stuff. Crazy.


Post# 170925 , Reply# 33   2/25/2012 at 16:52 (2,955 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan )        

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It's just a matter of preferance for everyone. Everyone has a different idea and like when it comes to this. I myself always thought that uprights were old lady vacuums. Growing up (I'm 34 now) if I ever saw a upright it was at some old lady house and I always saw young adults with canisters.

I like canisters. I have always found them easier to use and that I can get more done with them. If I were to get a upright it would be something from the 80's time period like the Hoover Decade 80. You can attach the attachments on at the bottom of the cleaner and just pull it around like a canister, I also like the old Panasonic uprights where the hoseplugged into the back and the Aerus Gardian uprights. But if I'm goingto shop for vacuum I automatically look at the canisters first. Thats alwasy my first choice.


Post# 170938 , Reply# 34   2/25/2012 at 19:46 (2,955 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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It is a matter of preference - there isn't a clear answer that differentiates which one is best - because all cleaning needs are different. Whereas those with carpets in a big house may prefer the compact-ability of a small canister being pulled behind them, I prefer an upright - and not necessarily KIRBY dimensions - to get the greatest amount of dirt out of a carpet - I know what I like and I choose what feels comfortable to me.

How many of you, for example take your upright vac out to the car? I can do that with both my Sebo uprights, because of their top release hoses - the tools are located right to hand, back and at the top. On my Miele/SEBO canisters, you have to return to the main body to get at the main smaller cleaning tools but then you also have the advantage of placing the entire canister in the foot well of a car, thus bringing the machine with you at all times.

How can the weight of a hose affect cleaning ability? Well you have to pull more of a heavy weight behind you and then cope with the bulkier hose because it isn't as flexible as a non-cord-embedded hose. That doesn't affect suction ability, but cleaning ability doesn't just encompass the actual action of cleaning something - it also takes into consideration the amount of effort needed - as well as the amount of strain or in some cases less strain to the user involved.

Whilst some have noted that some PN heads allow flat to the floor, the air driven turbo heads and suction only floor tools do not - you can do this easily if you fit a standard floor head to a canister and then find the floor head juts upwards because of the storage park slot often located at the back of the floor head. MIELE are also bad for this - often requiring the user to go at angles to allow the suction head to remain flat on the floor at all times.

The only exception to the rule where suction only floor heads are concerned, that don't do this seem to be from SEBO's deluxe Kombi floor head. It remains flat to the floor and you can bend at any angle with it, even straight down because the park position has been located at the top of the floor head on the neck.
Let me give you an example since you fail to see the difference.



Post# 171003 , Reply# 35   2/26/2012 at 11:48 (2,955 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Ignore the example I was going to give - video link doesnt work : ) the age of technology...

Post# 171006 , Reply# 36   2/26/2012 at 12:07 (2,955 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
RS:

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly - are you saying that canisters' suction-only attachments don't lie flat to the floor?

On better American vacuums, the suction-only rug and floor nozzles have a swiveling neck, which allows them to go flat and reach underneath furniture that is only two or three inches above the floor. To operate the swivel neck feature, one turns the wand to one side or the other; the tool then obligingly assumes a position in a straight line with the wand, with its bristles flat to the floor. Many people do not understand this feature; I've shocked a lot of Lux and TriStar owners by showing them how to use it.


Post# 171039 , Reply# 37   2/26/2012 at 18:46 (2,954 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Flat to the floor suction tools...

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You heard me right. The European brands - Miele, Bosch, Hoover, Electrolux - all have storage park hooks on the back of the swivel. So when you lower the handle like an upright vacuum and expect the floor head to remain flat to the floor - it won't - unless there is a 360 degree swivel and a pivotal movement that allows the floor head to go flat at the same angle as the handle and pipes.

The Sebo Deluxe Kombi floor tool and their Deluxe Parquet tool can do this because of the double joint mechanism - try with the Miele etc and the floor head will jut up because of the park position snagging on the carpet - the way around that is to swing the handle and tubes to the left or right which allows the suction floor head to remain flat to the carpet.


Post# 171041 , Reply# 38   2/26/2012 at 19:21 (2,954 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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I still say it is far safer and easier and more productive to clean carpets far under a bed with a suction only canister using a regular carpet nozzle or upholstery nozzle. And yes, for many of the European (mostly German-made) carpet nozzles, you have to turn the wand and hose handle to the left or right to get the nozzle to stay flat on the carpet. Most canister's carpet nozzles allow you to do that.

I think most motorized power nozzles available with canisters have difficulty staying flat with the carpet as soon as the wand gets close to the ground. Perhaps the early Eureka Roto-Matic power-nozzles allowed you to swivel the wand to one side to get it really flat with the ground. But some set-ups don't allow you to do that movement. For instance, if you use Kenmore's Powermates with a telescopic wand, you can't rotate the handle to make it lie flat to the ground.

I also don't think it's wise to use a canister's power nozzle too far under a bed anyhow - even with a headlight, there is a large possibility that the revolving brush will get jammed on an unseen plastic bag or lost sock or child's toy or magazine or other large item.

Again - just my opinion: far easier to clean carpets under a bed with a suction only carpet nozzle or right-angled upholstery nozzle if you don't want to move the bed.


Post# 171044 , Reply# 39   2/26/2012 at 19:40 (2,954 days old) by danemodsandy ()        
Brian:

I can see how many, many people would have trouble eventually if they tried using a power nozzle under the bed.

For myself, I found the answer to this problem a long time ago: I don't permit anything under the bed. I don't store anything there, and I use my bed strictly for sleeping, instead of as a combination living room, TV room, dinette and library.

Keeps the bedroom much neater, and no nasties under the bed to cause vacuuming trouble. I get under the bed once a week with the PN, and therefore enjoy a nice, dust-free bedroom.

My late partner used to store as much stuff under the bed (and everywhere else in the room) as he could get his hands on, and always griped about how dusty his room was, and how much trouble it was to clean in there. Only after he came down with heart disease and became bedridden was I able to clear the room of unnecessary stuff and get it cleanable - which was essential to his health by that time.

The older I get, the less I find I need stuff. What I find myself needing is peace, and space, and time.


Post# 171045 , Reply# 40   2/26/2012 at 20:07 (2,954 days old) by RainbowD4C (Saint Joseph, Michigan )        

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With my Rainbow power nozzle I can clean under my bed, tables and other furniture that has some kind of height very easily with out any problems. I have always thought that Uprights were more difficult to do that type of chore with. My moms Dysln old Bissell and Kirby with the exception of the hose with the bare floor brush were more difficult to do this type of cleaning task with.

Post# 171145 , Reply# 41   2/27/2012 at 18:45 (2,953 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
The danger of a power nozzle under a bed...

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Since the UK don't have that many canister/cylinder vacuums with power heads bar recently introduced Wertheim models and then established Miele/SEBO set, am I to understand that not all power nozzles are the same - i.e if something gets caught in my Sebo ET-1 floor head, the motor shuts down automatically, often dragging whatever it has caught with it!

Or do some power nozzles just keep on turning and then eventually breaking??


Post# 171153 , Reply# 42   2/27/2012 at 19:31 (2,953 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
"Or do some power nozzles just keep on turning and then eventually breaking??"

RS - in truth, most power nozzles seem to have some shut-off mechanism that is activated when the brush gets jammed with something. I know that the Sears Kenmore Powermate nozzles all have some "restart" button that will reactivate a jammed motor. But sometimes these are activated too late to prevent damage to the item picked up by the nozzle, and sometimes it is too late to prevent a broken belt. The shut-off mechanisms are not always reliable.

In truth, one really does not need to agitate the dusty carpet lying under a bed. Since it is not stepped on constantly, it is really only surface dust and litter that needs to be removed most frequently. And so I think a regular carpet nozzle with lint grabbers or a right-angled upholstery nozzle with bristles (like the one TTI includes now with a lot of the Hoover canisters and Sears Kenmore Central Vac Systems), would suffice to clean under a bed - in my opinion. When it comes time for that monthly or seasonal "tear apart the room" cleaning, one can move the bed and clean the carpet with an upright.


Post# 171193 , Reply# 43   2/28/2012 at 04:10 (2,953 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
mmm. Provided the said upright can fit under a bed - another pro I suppose for a canister with PN head. Most bagless upright models cannot because the bins are too big.

Post# 171302 , Reply# 44   2/28/2012 at 18:30 (2,952 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
RS.....

When I do a thorough cleaning of my bedroom, I actually move the bed and lean it up against the wall so that I can deep clean the entire territory of carpet lying underneath it with my Hoover upright. In this way, I can really make sure no spots are missed, including the challenging points where the wheels/castors of the bedframe rest on the carpet.

So I don't need an upright that can fit all the way under the bed for those thorough cleaning projects.

EP Brian :-)


Post# 171307 , Reply# 45   2/28/2012 at 19:35 (2,952 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Thats all very well but I doubt most people will move their double and king size beds to get under it.

See this video of a guy using the Sebo X1.1 to get under a coffee table - same kind of procedure and look at the lack of effort he doesn't have to do, to clean under there!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo_fan's LINK





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