Thread Number: 15567
which do you prefer
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Post# 165446   1/10/2012 at 16:13 (3,011 days old) by bravokid ()        

clean air vs direct air vs tandem air.

Post# 165463 , Reply# 1   1/10/2012 at 17:21 (3,011 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
For me - Clean air.

Post# 165468 , Reply# 2   1/10/2012 at 18:14 (3,011 days old) by thevacuumman (Borger, TX)        

thevacuumman's profile picture
Dirty Air for Weekly use
Clean Air for Daily use

Post# 165474 , Reply# 3   1/10/2012 at 18:45 (3,011 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        

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If there are large particles involved then clean air or if i plan to use the tools quite a bit, but in terms of pure carpet cleaning power there is no beating a direct air

Post# 165530 , Reply# 4   1/10/2012 at 23:13 (3,011 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        

broomvac's profile picture
Daily cleaning of carpets-Dirty Air (Sanitaire or Kirby)

Specialty uses (large pieces of things, bare floors, or attachment use)-Clean air (Hoover Whisper Cyclonic)

Post# 165534 , Reply# 5   1/11/2012 at 03:43 (3,011 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

For me-carpets-dirty air-Kirby,metal Royal,or Sanitaire.Have some Riccar tandom air machines in my collection-like the simplar direct air ones better.airpath on tandom air machines to complex to be efficient.for other things-canister-but for real dirty and volume hose jobs--the NSS M1-direct air canister.Large bag-high volume airflow.

Post# 165565 , Reply# 6   1/11/2012 at 10:36 (3,010 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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For uprights, a dirty air vacuum uses less energy to get the same excellent deep carpet cleaning as a 12amp "bag-first" upright. You don't need 12 amps to deep clean high pile carpet, if the upright has a "fan-first" configuraton.

Two vacs are best: upright for carpets, canister for everything else.

Post# 168165 , Reply# 7   2/3/2012 at 20:18 (2,987 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
"...For uprights, a dirty air vacuum uses less energy to get the same excellent deep carpet cleaning as a 12amp "bag-first" upright.."

It really surprises me that energy is a consideration for vacuum cleaners - unless you use your vacuum 24 hours a day, 7 days a week then yes, perhaps it can be costly to run. But, vacuum use so little energy compared to an electric stove or larger appliances, does it really make a different to your power bills?

In the UK, and my experience I haven't noticed much of a difference between use of a clean air vac versus dirty fan - and that was at a time when I used power card meter for electricity.

Post# 168189 , Reply# 8   2/3/2012 at 23:16 (2,987 days old) by billybud21 ()        
I am on the fence -- I hope it doesn't stick me

If you have a high quality machine with a robust fan, then direty air and top fill bag is probably the best -- I have an Oreck XL and Kirby with that set up and it works great.

However, even with a pretty full bag, the Aerus Lux Classic maintain excelent suction, which is prety impressive, and it is quieter than either the Oreck or Kirby.


Post# 168197 , Reply# 9   2/4/2012 at 02:23 (2,987 days old) by Sanifan ()        

My daily driver is a clean air machine - either a Tacony-style Dustcare 5600C, a Sanitaire cyclonic bagless, or a Windsor Versamatic. For weekly or bi-weekly deep cleaning, however, it's a direct air Sanitaire.

The reason I use clean air for daily use is because it's much more versatile - it allows me to use a long hose and attachments. That's a must for vacuuming apartment stairways.

A direct air Kirby would let me do that as well, but the process of setting up the hose and attachments on a Kirby is much more cumbersome and it's too heavy to move from floor to floor with any ease.

So direct airs, while superior on open carpet, are reserved for the occasional deep clean in my situation.

I've never used the tandem air, so no input there.

Post# 168252 , Reply# 10   2/4/2012 at 11:01 (2,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Tandem air ? What is that ?

Post# 168261 , Reply# 11   2/4/2012 at 12:13 (2,986 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
Tandem has me guessing also. For my heavier carpets, dirty air, seems to move more air and pick up the erant cat litter off the side so easy compared to clean air machines I have, not even a need to get close with the Concept 1.Floors and tools, clean air for me.

Post# 168265 , Reply# 12   2/4/2012 at 13:02 (2,986 days old) by Sanifan ()        
Tandem Air...

Isn't Tandem Air a proprietary technology featured in some higher end Riccar machines? IIRC, it combines both a direct air motor and a clean air motor in one machine to get extra cleaning power. I could be wrong, though.

Post# 168269 , Reply# 13   2/4/2012 at 13:35 (2,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
I've got to say that's what I thought...

Post# 168285 , Reply# 14   2/4/2012 at 16:41 (2,986 days old) by baglessball ()        

Have to 99% of the time I'm a clean air man. Everyone I vacuum I need the use of tools, for hard floor bit mostly edges, pet hair that rubbed of on the side of furnishings, chewed up bits of dog toy..

I like dirty air, but as stated, with a Kirby it takes longer to clean. If I have time it's not a problem, but usually have a lot to get done in the day.

I would like to try to try a tandem air, but don't think we have anything like that in the UK. Am I jealous? Yes!

Post# 168287 , Reply# 15   2/4/2012 at 16:46 (2,986 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Though I understand fully the principle of tandem air cleaning, I cannot for the life of me (what's left) imagine how it works in reality and what difference it makes. To me, it is a case of clean-fan sucking away blown air from a dirty-fan? Surely the suction of the clean-fan machine would over-ride that of the dirty-fan? Or does the dirty-fan compensate for loss of suction on the clean-fan motor as the bag fills?

Post# 168290 , Reply# 16   2/4/2012 at 17:07 (2,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Yeah I did think that it was possibly a Clean Fan set up with a Dirty Fan behind the brush roll to give extra suction. Could be wrong though.

Post# 168299 , Reply# 17   2/4/2012 at 17:27 (2,986 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

Well i can't see it myself, in useful terms, because the air coming away from the dirty fan would be limited too as the bag filled up, therefore it would impede the suction from the dirty fan. Its a strange one. Though not avaliable here, it would be so very easy to make a power head for a cylinder which combined the two styles of suction motor. I saw a video of someone attaching an Oreck to a cylinder in order to try this.

Post# 168301 , Reply# 18   2/4/2012 at 17:33 (2,986 days old) by baglessball ()        

How did they rate it?

Post# 168303 , Reply# 19   2/4/2012 at 17:36 (2,986 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

No idea. I had the sound off.

Post# 168646 , Reply# 20   2/7/2012 at 04:20 (2,984 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I have three Riccar tandem air vacuums-honestly-the complex airpath negates the performance.I find direct air only vacuums such as Kirbys,Royals,Sanitaires,and Hoover Convertibles are better-and draw less current.If you use the tandem air machine-make sure no other appliances are on the circuit you are using it on-otherwise it trips breakers.Two 6A motors going at once.When you use the hose-only the clean air motor runs.and the tandem air vacs can clog easily-new models have trap doors on the airpath so you can remove clogs.For their prices---Kirbys and the others are better.

Post# 171430 , Reply# 21   2/29/2012 at 21:56 (2,961 days old) by bravokid ()        
tandem air

it seems to me that if both motors would have to be in perfect harmony or the direct air motor would give the clean air motor a turbine effect and make it spin faster and burn it out. opinions on this .....

Post# 171440 , Reply# 22   2/29/2012 at 23:00 (2,961 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Wichita, KS)        
Tandem air

kirbysthebest's profile picture
Maybe this will help.

See screen name for preference

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Kirbysthebest's LINK

Post# 171441 , Reply# 23   2/29/2012 at 23:18 (2,961 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Wichita, KS)        
This shows somewhat of a cross

kirbysthebest's profile picture
This is the Riccar site.

They are not bad machines. For the price I feel a little flimsy, but good cleaners from what I've seen.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Kirbysthebest's LINK

Post# 171448 , Reply# 24   3/1/2012 at 00:56 (2,961 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

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as far as I know the tandem air works like this,
for carpets the machine uses the dirty air motor to give that great cleaning but when you use the tools it uses the clean air motor, that's why the ducting is so complicated. I will admit I have only ever seen and worked on one of these machines and that's how it worked, you do not get Riccar in SA , it was brought back from the states by its owner

Post# 171449 , Reply# 25   3/1/2012 at 01:01 (2,961 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)        

gsheen's profile picture
Clean air for me due to its convenience, on board tools and all, I have 11 cats so vacuuming every thing is an hourly thing also we have a fair amount of hardflooring in our house.

Post# 171456 , Reply# 26   3/1/2012 at 04:18 (2,961 days old) by venson ()        
It's a split call here . . .

Despite their revolving brushes, clean-air vacs usually have to be over-powered (10 amps, 12 amps) because their air paths can get pretty convoluted on the way from the floor to the bag chamber. A lot can get lost in the translation due to twists and turns and joins that may leak air or impede air movement. Nonetheless, they generally deliver way more power for above the floor work.

Direct-air machines can use lower current draw because they usually provide a short, sweet and near direct path from the floor to the fan. I thinks that's why even direct-air machines like Oreck can do surprisingly well for the small fans they use. The one setback for me is fear of unseen objects. I always do a cursory check for hard stuff on the floor before I start but I'm always on guard for the rattle or ping that comes when you ace the unseen coin or button.

Riccar/Simplicity's tandem air in theory sounds cool but test reports I read said above-the-floor suction is nothing remarkable. Repair persons -- not a lot -- mentioned there might be a problem with blow-back in the bag area.

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