Thread Number: 15049
Best deep cleaner? Kirby or sanitaire? |
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Post# 159563 , Reply# 1   11/21/2011 at 03:51 (4,512 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Oooh you want to start a war of words hehe
I.d go with the sanitaire, but thats my opinion , what I would suggest is that you go to a vacuum shop and try out a few machines , give the shop a good vacuum them make p your mind, what I like is not what you may like , Both machines give good suction and should last a while so go and try them out and then make up your mind |
Post# 159564 , Reply# 2   11/21/2011 at 04:11 (4,512 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)   |   | |
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I would say either-but try to use them on your flooring AT HOME before making the final decision.most vacuum stores will let you take a machine home to try it. |
Post# 159569 , Reply# 3   11/21/2011 at 06:32 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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Try going to a vacuum shop. You can speak to guys who know what they are talking about, and like Tolivac said- you can take it home and try it. You will find that on here, there are really no "experts" in the field- just enthusiasts that are highly obsessed or opinionated about one or a few brands.
Your local vacuum shop is the resource to go to to actually find an experienced voice. |
Post# 159579 , Reply# 4   11/21/2011 at 09:06 (4,511 days old) by redgeminipa (Altoona, PA)   |   | |
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Honestly? I've always been a Kirby guy, but I must admit, I'm blown away by the new Rainbow. That's next on my future purchase list. |
Post# 159585 , Reply# 5   11/21/2011 at 10:18 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Scvacuumguy
Be vary carefull what you say about no experts, there are a few vacuum shop owners on this forum and many other who have much greater intellect than you could possibly have
I my self am a mechanical engineer, I have designed vacuums for and worked on design projects for a number of well known vacuum company's including large built in vacuum systems IE in huge factories.
I have developed and manufacture my own brand of heavy duty vacuum cleaners for sucking up acidic water when resurfacing terricaota and other hard flooring
At the moment we run a vacuum shop that specialises in top brands and budget machines , I also have a engineering consultancy that tests prototypes of vacuums that are to be sold on our shores. We also build truck mount carpet cleaning machines
I and a number of other members on this forum probibly know more about vacuum, vortex, suction, air flow, and the entire set up of a vacuum than you will ever know in your entire life. Keep your comments to your self
One other thing a vacuum shop is going to want to sell you there particular brand so asking people who are Obsessed as you put it about a vacuum they use is a good way to get an idea of how good it is , Would you go to a Chevy dealer and ask him how good a Honda is, NO You would ask some one who OWNS one
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Post# 159587 , Reply# 6   11/21/2011 at 11:05 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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I am well aware that there are vac store owners on here- myself included. There are also a lot of very non-expert people who are highly opinionated on here. They hold about as much value as a box of rocks. I am very glad that in your busy engineering world and prototype testing world you find time to run a vacuum store out of your garage.
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Post# 159588 , Reply# 7   11/21/2011 at 11:10 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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"I and a number of other members on this forum probibly know more about vacuum, vortex, suction, air flow, and the entire set up of a vacuum than you will ever know in your entire life.
Keep your comments to your self" Ahh, I missed your blatant attack towards me...before I correct your spelling and all that good stuff, I'm simply going to ask that you post a picture of your manufacturing facility and some of your designed machines that you produce. Concerning my knowledge of vacuum cleaners and vacuum stores- I guarantee my store grosses a lot more than your garage :-) |
Post# 159593 , Reply# 8   11/21/2011 at 11:48 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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How did you know I work from my garage , wow you must be psychic hehe, seriously I do technically work from home my self, though the old garage does just that stores my cars ( go figure ) I am privileged to have a really big home and I bought the house in front of mine too to turn into a business as I was sick of paying just over $6000.00 a month in rent , yep Cape Town property is expensive. I love working from home plus there is more space and I own the building. We have a fully functioning show room, a repair shop to die for and the testing facility's. We also have a smaller satelight store in Cape town itself and a factory in an industrial area in epping, we share this facility with a roto molding company who produces our molds.
As for my spelling My apologies , I am dyslexic and I still battle with it after all these years so my apologies for you having to correct my spelling.
Yes "your store" (Do you actually own it or just work there)(I own mine debt free too) probably does gross more income than I do , you do after all live in the USA were there are allot more customers but we do just fine enough for me to enjoy life and afford jsut about any thing I want to have.
I will happily post some pics of what I have designed, if you can wai a few months I can even post some pics of what I am busy with now but its not released yet.
My attack was aimed at you as you attacked every one of us who does know what we are talking about.
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Post# 159594 , Reply# 9   11/21/2011 at 12:13 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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I own my store- check it out on manta.com, we even have a (crappy) website that is in the process of being overhauled, vacuums-etc.com. You will notice that it is owned by parent company, Buddy Nash Holdings, LLC. I am the owner of the holdings company that owns the store. We employ 6 people. 2 repairmen (not including myself), 1 salesman (not including myself), 1 CV estimator and installer, and 1 assistant for me to do books and stuff for my holdings company. I'd love for you to come visit sometime when you are in the US on engineering business. We have been in business for over 40 years now.
I kind of figured you would not have any pictures of your facility. Then again, you sure do spend a ton of time talking, but not ever showing to back things up. I think at your age, you feel like you have a good bit to prove. Really, it doesn't take much to know more than the guys on here. I've been in the vacuum field since I was 14. A number of guys on the forum know me in person and via phone- I've sold products to several and given advice to several over the phone as well. I'm not sure what you are asking me to prove, be it my knowledge, or my store. I was simply making a comment that most people realize on here that there are very few "expert" opinions. Sorry for your dyslexia. I am a members of PDA People against Dyslexia. I hope your issue doesn't affect your great designs and prototype making that you claim to do constantly. If you were as good of an engineer as you claim to be- Im not even sure why you would have the time to do all of these repairs out of your garage. Guess you can chalk it up to the economy :-( |
Post# 159595 , Reply# 10   11/21/2011 at 12:16 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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Post# 159599 , Reply# 11   11/21/2011 at 12:52 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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I have two techs working for me aswell , I have always wanted to get into domestic central vacuums but never had the chance plus most houses out here are brick or concrete which makes the instillation cost very high. we get beam here as well as a few others but on average it costs $ 11000.00 to fit one , its insane.
I only do some designing these days , not allot mainly small things like redesingning motor mounts to accept newer( Cheaper :( ) motors for one or two companysthat still produce models in SA
I have attached a photo of one Electrolux wet&dry that i helped to develope with other people when I woked at Electrolux cape town , Its a team effort
Most of my designing had to do with adapting motors to fit machines and the study of air flow and so on, I spent most of my time developing air flow chambers, and slip streaming the air flow, Its amazing how 2mm can change a vacuums suction from good to fantastic.
I saw your website , not that crappy ours is almost finished what fun that has been.
I will happily send you pics when I can find some, I looked at some now but they have machines that have not been released on our market yet. a number of years ago I did proper designing but now its more testing and improving products for our market. things can take a bit o a bashing in SA.
I am a workaholic and I suffer from a form of insomnia so I don't sleep much. I love what I do and I miss working on the machines my self allot.
I do not do any engineering projects outside of SA as I said its a small part of my business, but I would love to come over and see your place, I love learning and you are obviously quiet knowledgeable
As for asking you to prove any thing i am not , Your comment was there is really No expert opinion on here. there is so you were wrong in saying that thinking that you are the only one who is an expert.
I have no problem with you your self I enjoy your point of view some times but you need to realise that you are not the only one who is an expert. |
Post# 159600 , Reply# 12   11/21/2011 at 12:52 (4,511 days old) by HooverCelebrity (Germany)   |   | |
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I'm warning both of you... This is unwanted drama on VacuumLand. Cut it out. If you want to bicker about who knows what, take it to your own email. Fred |
Post# 159601 , Reply# 13   11/21/2011 at 13:00 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 159602 , Reply# 14   11/21/2011 at 13:01 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 159603 , Reply# 15   11/21/2011 at 13:34 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 159610 , Reply# 17   11/21/2011 at 14:13 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Thank you , I think I just got carried away a bit , yes we are the only official dyson repair agent in SA but thats neither here nor there. I was arrogant and I apologise.
many brands are very difficult to get here . we get
Electrolux ( eureka to you guys ) 1 upright 6 canister AEG ( electrolux to you guys ) 6 models all canister samsung 2 uprights 4 canisters dyson 2 uprights 2 canisters LG ( what you guys call hoover , well some of it) Nilfisk canisters Karcher wet&dry wap wet& dry Hoover ( cheap rubbish not even tti) canisters 1 upright Bissell 3 uprights 3 canisters 3 deep cleaners vorwerk 1 model Kirby Rainbow Russelhobs 2 canisters Morphy Richards 3 canisters Miele 2 uprights 6 canisters if you can find them sebo 7 uprights sold in one store in the whole of Cape Town
there are some other brands but much cheaper Chinese imports.
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Post# 159612 , Reply# 18   11/21/2011 at 14:23 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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Post# 159613 , Reply# 19   11/21/2011 at 14:28 (4,511 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 159629 , Reply# 23   11/21/2011 at 17:18 (4,511 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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3 things:
1. Sanitaires have much larger fans with taller and straighter blades than the Kirby G series vacuum fans, similar to what the metal Kirby fans were like, just a little better. The fan moves MUCH more air in the Sanitaire. 2. Sanitaire's VGII brushroll is brutal. Stiffer bristles+beaters makes it better than any Kirby brush could even dream of being, even better than the Kirby Sentria brush and the pet brush. 3. The Sanitaire bag has more surface area than the Kirby bag does, and square inches of surface area is a huge factor when it comes to determining pressures and airflow, so I find that the Sanitaire bag is much less restrictive on airflow than Kirby bags tend to be. Another thing to note is that both machines have 7 amp 840W motors. I am no vac shop owner but I have a G3 that I restored along with a Sanitaire S661 that I restored, and have had them for quite some time. I have observed that the Sanitaire simply moves more air and shakes the carpet more, so I find that the bag gains weight MUCH faster than in my Kirby when I use either one as my sole daily driver for a couple of months. That being said, I find the Kirby more pleasant to use and still the 2nd best deep cleaning vacuuum over the 20+ that I own, so it kind of balances out. Still, in terms of cleaning performance, the Sanitaire wins! |
Post# 159639 , Reply# 27   11/21/2011 at 18:16 (4,511 days old) by joshdonnell ()   |   | |
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i like kirbys better ! i have used both and i personaly like kirbys better. just my two cents |
Post# 159645 , Reply# 28   11/21/2011 at 19:54 (4,511 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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"While I still like them a lot, I do see Kirbys as a "jack of all trades, master of none", all the functions it does are often bettered by other vacs, or power tools, or whatever"
David- you made me laugh out loud with that comment! Thanks, and I plan to use this when people come in asking about Kirby vacs...power tools!!!! |
Post# 159705 , Reply# 31   11/22/2011 at 09:13 (4,510 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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There's need for correction here. The Kirby and Sanitaire fan are virtually the same size, the blades on a Kirby are actually taller at some points. The Kirby fan is a much better built fan in general than the cheap plastic sanitaire.
Nothing against "Bub" but I do encourage you to do some research before making comments. Please folks, do not post "expert" opinions if you aren't an expert....see pictures below: |
Post# 159707 , Reply# 32   11/22/2011 at 09:33 (4,510 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Does any one know what the rpm of the motors are, I'm not a big Kirby fan myself so I don't have that data.
Its interesting to see how the sanitaires fan blades are not curved. That right there would lead to less suction but it would be able to handle debris better such as paper clips drawing pins ext.
The Kirby fan will move more air as it has a extra blade and therfore more surface area but that also depends on how fast the motor spins |
Post# 159712 , Reply# 34   11/22/2011 at 09:58 (4,510 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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Post# 159714 , Reply# 35   11/22/2011 at 11:46 (4,510 days old) by joshdonnell ()   |   | |
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Doesnt matter if we are not all experts we still have the right to voice our opinions |
Post# 159715 , Reply# 36   11/22/2011 at 11:51 (4,510 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 159739 , Reply# 37   11/22/2011 at 18:03 (4,510 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada)   |   | |
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You are wrong, young Josh
2. Posting to the Vacuumland Forum is open to both Vacuum Cleaner Collectors Club members and non-members. However, in both cases, posting is a "privilege" -- NOT a "right." And if the post is couched in thoughtlessly strident condescending terms meant (or perceived) to belittle and wound, you should not be surprised that it will be questioned (and possibly deleted, if enough persons take issue and report it). Just sayin' I read the first 5 posts before I left St Louis for St James. Interesting question. I was appalled but not surprised at the turn it had taken, when I logged in a few minutes ago. Please, fellers, proofread your posts and intent before hitting 'send'...and turn on the damn Spellchecker every operating system has!! That's what it's for - to create a good impression of one's skills. Remember, this website & the Forums are forever in archives; Twittertweet Face-splats fade and are expunged in the misty-moist fabric of time. All this in one day? How petty and unnecessary. At least the gentlemen principles have 'kissed and made up'. Regarding 'experts', accept that some guys do know more than others so please LISTEN and comprehend. Flapping one's gums in outrage never endeared anyone to others. Daddy Dave |
Post# 159768 , Reply# 38   11/22/2011 at 18:49 (4,510 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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Post# 159785 , Reply# 39   11/22/2011 at 22:43 (4,510 days old) by joshdonnell ()   |   | |
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Im might be young but im not wrong |
Post# 159790 , Reply# 40   11/22/2011 at 23:24 (4,510 days old) by twocvbloke ()   |   | |
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Dunno why, but the last few posts made me think of this sign: |
Post# 159793 , Reply# 41   11/23/2011 at 00:07 (4,510 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Seen I was the one who started this mess by overreacting I will say the following. Yes Dave I do wish I could go back and delete what I said, I acted in hast and anger at a comment that I found offensive. Yes I do use spell check but as did say I am dyslecsic and battle badly with spelling I ofetn read my posts through three or four times before posting but didn't that day. Even spell check doesn't pick up every thing.
I did appologise to Christopher both here via email but he does have a valid point. Reaserch before you post. I often see info on here and think NO thats not right, but then again I have learnt so much on this forum too.
People believe any thing thats on the net especially Utube , I often get customers saying "but on utube it says this" I always respond by saying this " ever watched Mythbusters they would be out of a job if everything on utube was true"
this thread started by asking wich is better Sainitare or Kirby I know guys on this forum and off that swear that either one is the best. They are absolutly right because at the end of the day there choice works best for them .
I have used sainitares and think they are great , I have used kirby's and thought they cleaned well but I am not a Kirby fan myself ( will not the latest oneany way) and that has to do with other reasons.
The end of the day go to a vacuum shop and try out both, then make your choice. Which ever model you find works for you is the best for you if that makes sense
Cheers Gareth and I am sorry for making a mess out of this thread. |
Post# 159809 , Reply# 45   11/23/2011 at 02:20 (4,510 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 159886 , Reply# 47   11/23/2011 at 15:50 (4,509 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)   |   | |
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I think both clean good; but for the canister person, a TriStar CXL will clean as well as the Kirby & Sanitaire. :) |
Post# 159895 , Reply# 48   11/23/2011 at 16:45 (4,509 days old) by kirby (passadena md)   |   | |
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i vote the kirby |
Post# 159926 , Reply# 50   11/23/2011 at 21:19 (4,509 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)   |   | |
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Post# 159962 , Reply# 51   11/23/2011 at 23:26 (4,509 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Dan Your way beyond expert, I think you are one of the most driven collectors I know.
I think we are all an expert in our own field. If you like something enough you will learn allot about it and what is an expert? A person who has extreme knowlege on a certain subject. I do not think you have to be an engineer or a vacuum shop owner to be a vacuum expert.
The wealth of knowledge that's is on this forum goes beyond expert, take for instance Gottohavehoover , If I asked him what color a Hoover 62 is he would be able to tel me what color , trim and date of manufacture that was my point all along. I just went about saying it in the wrong way)If I wanted to know about the orek vacuum i would ask you Dan. If some one wanted to know about dysons they could ask me.
Gareth |
Post# 159964 , Reply# 52   11/23/2011 at 23:40 (4,509 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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scvacuumguy--
Good point. I really should have juxtaposed the two fans BEFORE I posted an over-exaggeration about the fans. I was simply recalling from memory, and the Sanitaire fan always seemed somewhat larger to me. I do believe that the fan blades on the Sanitaire are slightly taller, but I hate to say for sure, because my record has apparently taken a turn for the worse. Its hard to tell, but from the picture you posted the Sanitaire fan seems to be slightly larger in diameter, but it is hard to tell when they are side by side. One thing I do know about the vacuums that I do believe helps with the airflow in the Sanitaire is that the gap from fan to fan housing in the Sanitaire seems narrower as opposed to what seems to be a larger gap from fan housing to fan on my G3. (The base on my S661 is NOT a Quick Clean base, so I cannot say about the gap on the Quick Clean models, but I imagine it is similar.) So, what could settle this and be helpful would be two pictures: 1. Fans from the side to show blade height. 2. One fan on top of the other to show which is larger in diameter. |
Post# 159978 , Reply# 53   11/24/2011 at 07:51 (4,508 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)   |   | |
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Post# 159991 , Reply# 54   11/24/2011 at 09:45 (4,508 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)   |   | |
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Post# 160007 , Reply# 56   11/24/2011 at 12:30 (4,508 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)   |   | |
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Post# 160008 , Reply# 57   11/24/2011 at 13:21 (4,508 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Regarding the debate, for what types of carpeting is there a difference between these 2 vacuums? |
Post# 160011 , Reply# 58   11/24/2011 at 13:38 (4,508 days old) by baglessball ()   |   | |
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Does any body.. Currently own both? Could you stick a carpet sample underneath both machine whilst running as see which draws more air through the carpet and vibrates it more? Your hand-> the carpet sample-> the cleaner |
Post# 160027 , Reply# 59   11/24/2011 at 15:59 (4,508 days old) by vac_whisperer ()   |   | |
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I have a 1986 Sanitaire,(SC888) and 1997 Kirby (G5), I think they would be comparable. Sadly the sanitaire is all taken apart, being restored. :/ |
Post# 160043 , Reply# 60   11/24/2011 at 19:04 (4,508 days old) by Brandon_W_T ()   |   | |
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I have yet to find a vacuum that can lift up the carpet and beat it as hard as a Sanitaire. Its absurd to vacuum a rug with a Sanitaire, they are just too powerful for throw rugs. |
Post# 160079 , Reply# 62   11/25/2011 at 01:41 (4,508 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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A few years ago we tested a sanitaire sample models that were under consideration for marketing in SA. It was a sc888 or 880 , as a bench marke we tested it against the Kirby sentria that had just come on to the market( the sales man was smiling quickest sale he had ever made).
I can't remember the exact results must go and dig them up but On certain carpets the sanitaire out performed the Kirby by a considerable margin. This was lab testing thoug not real life and thats what the data told us but it was interesting.
However what performs best for you is the real question, try and get demo's and try them out yourself , that way you will find the one that's suits you |
Post# 160700 , Reply# 63   11/30/2011 at 19:07 (4,502 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH)   |   | |
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Brandon,
I agree, Sanitaires are too powerful for throw rugs, however, they have a two speed model out now. SC 889A. I bought one for the motor to put into my Eureka 250, which I had a 7 amp one speed motor in, since the old 3.5 amp motor was bad. I can now vacuum throw rugs again like old times. I wish they would put the two speed back into their blue line uprights, like they used to have.
I still like my Kirby's the best, especially with the newer stiffer brush rolls.
Bud Mattingly This post was last edited 11/30/2011 at 19:34 |
Post# 160859 , Reply# 67   12/2/2011 at 11:09 (4,500 days old) by kirbysthebest (Midwest)   |   | |
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It's all in the negotiation power. You get a Kirby guy in hour home, late in the evening, towards the end of the month, trying to meet quota. He'll deal. You can get that $2,800 machine down to $500-$750 arena. |
Post# 160966 , Reply# 69   12/3/2011 at 16:37 (4,499 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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on that note of getting a Kirby for a bargan. I have always kown that Kirbys were way over priced ( no offense to any Kirby lovers ) in SA selling for at the current exchange rate $ 3629.00 , someone I know of just got one ( end of the month must meet quota) for $ 870.00. wow talk about been ripped off, and he nearly paid full price. I still told him he should have come to see me first.
We get so many people wanting to sell there sentria's and sadly most have paid full price. Then they get so angry when you offer them so little for it , no matter how many times I explain it we don't resell kirby's we break them for parts. its gotten so bad that I have put up a notice on the door saying we do not buy Kirby sentria's as the customers just get angry with us. As I have said before its a good machine but its not $3629.00 good , for that money I'll get a nice beem central vacuum installed in my brick and concrete home with some change. |