Patriot and Air Storm Vacuums?

@Richard/kirbykid63: Well, I am glad to hear my advice was of some help to you. As far as generic Miracle Mate bags, I know I have seen generic ones being sold on Ebay a while ago....so just keep your eyes peeled. Or, ask your local vac dealer to enquire about them with his local parts distributor. I am sure he would appreciate it, actually, if he could get generics to sell at a lower cost to his customers.

However, if you are picking up fine dirt, I would just stick to using Tri-Star bags with a Miracle Mate bag top, as I suggested. In my area, I find I pick up lots of sand & fine grit, & it clogs easily, so it's really easy to just take the bag outside & dump the contents outside & reuse the bag a couple of times. Thats why I started using Tri-Star bags....I found the Miracle Mate bags had too much filtration, & of course got frustrated with having to throw out expensive bags with hardly any dirt in them. I imagine you would also have this problem if you used the micro-lined Tri-Star bags, as the micro-liner would just cling onto the fine dust.

@David/twocvbloke: Yes, you could get the HEPA filter dome for your Tri-Star, but I would just buy the Patriot's Medik-Aire HEPA filter from them & stick it on your Tri-Star. I presently use the HEPA filter dome on my Miracle Mate, as there is no other way to do it, & that's the ONLY reason I use them. On my Miracle Mate (which is an earlier model, before they put the bag on an angle), the Patriot's HEPA filter simply won't fit into the exhaust port- the slot on the filter's pipe won't work with the pin on the Miracle Mate's exhaust port & it won't stay in place when the vacuum is turned on.

You really don't get much HEPA filter paper in the filter itself, & the filters cost anywhere from $15-$20 CDN, depending on which shop you go to, & the manufacturer suggests replacing every 6 months. The Patriot's HEPA filter, when bought direct from Schoettler Research & Engineering, is $200 US dollars. However, the manufacturer suggests changing once every 3 years, so that breaks down to $66.66 per year, compared to $40 per year changing the HEPA filter domes. Think of it this way....you are paying about the same cost per year if you owned a Miele & were changing the HEPA filter once a year, if you use the Patriot's filter.

The other thing to consider, is that the Patriot's HEPA filter is MASSIVE- my Tri-Star looks like it has a balloon stuck onto it! There's NO WAY the HEPA filter domes would outfilter the Patriot's HEPA filter, even if they were changed more frequently, due to the amount of filtering media the Patriot's filter has. As a matter of fact, the filter is so big, I would be willing to bet if one made sure the bags were changed when necessary & kept the foam filter dome clean, that most households could actually get 5 years out of each filter. Also, the Patriot's HEPA filter is a Certified HEPA, something the HEPA filter domes can't claim....

You are wise not to use the Filter Fresh filtration system Tri-Star makes for them, though, as they clog rather quickly & makes the vacuum lose a lot of it's power. I know you don't like the idea of using a clunky filter on the exhaust, but I would give it a bit of thought.

Rob

BTW- As I was finishing this post, I figured out that if you use the Patriot's HEPA filter for 5 years, it works out to $40 per year, so it would break even with the yearly cost of the HEPA filter domes.


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Post# 123604 2/1/2011 at 14:13 (4,831 days old) by kubvan1 ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 I love the "real" Tri-Stars/Compacts, and I am not sure if I can muster up much enthusiasm for the newest MG series with the really cheap looking motors, and according to one anecdotal internet source, they are now made in China as well. I know there are a few other manufacturers that have been around for a while using the same basic Compact/tristar system, and I noticed that the Patriot and Airstorm machines appear to still use a good quality Ametek Motor and are actually made in the USA. Are the airstorm and Patriot actually made by the same company? They share numerous design features that seem to indicate they are both made by Schoettler Engineering. Aside from the Patriot having a plastic body, they both seem to be decent machines and perhaps an alternative for disillusioned Tri-Star lovers. Then again, the Mighty Mate has a metal body, but lacks the brilliant simplicity of the old Tristars. Cheers, Doug

Post# 123677 , Reply# 1 2/1/2011 at 18:54 (4,831 days old) by Kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)
Checkrate/Likes *The Patriot/Airstorm look good, but beware.....* The motor LOOKS the same as a Tri-Star Ametek motor, but my local vac shop guy says the motors in the Patriot/Airstorm burn out quicker & last about as long as a Filter Queen Ametek motor, not as long as the Tri-Star. He says that there isn't as much copper wiring used to make the field armature on the motors, that's why. However, one could install a Tri-Star CXL motor in the Patriot when the motor burns out, or even a 12-amp Domel motor, as both these are the same size as the Patriot's Ametek motor. And of course, would be just as powerful. I personally prefer the Patriot over the Tri-Star, as they have a better HEPA filter on the exhaust, & have the best filtration of all the Tri-Star wannabees. Rob. PS- Anyone who has a Tri-Star & wants the Medik-Aire HEPA filter from the Patriot, can just call the company, claim they have a Patriot & buy one & put it on the Tri-Star. I have done that on mine & it fits & works perfectly fine.

Post# 123685 , Reply# 2 2/1/2011 at 19:29 (4,831 days old) by kubvan1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks!* Thanks for the notes. It makes me wonder if there are any Ametek motors still being made that have a lifespan like the older ones. Knowing that, I will hang on to my CXL for as long as it lasts. I can see where the incentive to skimp on copper would come from, given the cost of the raw materials, but as you say, less copper, hotter running field windings shorter lifespan. On most vacs, the motor would still probably outlast the rest of the machine, but on a high-end unit like the Patriot and others, its a shame. You pay that much, and I would expect a motor to last 30 or more years. Regards, Doug

Post# 123687 , Reply# 3 2/1/2011 at 19:36 (4,831 days old) by kirbyvertibles (Independence, KS)
Checkrate/Likes Another one that works great ( I think so anyway ) is the Vortech Force. We love ours.

Post# 123689 , Reply# 4 2/1/2011 at 19:46 (4,831 days old) by kubvan1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Vortech Force* I've seen those for sale a number of times as well. Thought they looked pretty neat, but I've always stuck with a real TriStar. In fact, it seems as long as the Compact/TriStar has been around, there have been people building competing machines that use a similar vertical bag/horizontal airflow scheme. It generally works well. The only time my TriStar really suffers is when I am cleaning up large quantities of fine dust. The bag pores clog up pretty fast, but for normal chunkier dirt, the cyclonic airflow works pretty well.

Post# 123690 , Reply# 5 2/1/2011 at 19:54 (4,831 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)
Checkrate/Likes It's hard to beat a Tristar CXL. I think it's the best canister vacuum around. It's powerful and filters very well. The Tristar also has a very simple straightforward design, making it easy to work on. I've heard some people say the Eureka built power nozzle is clunky, but I like it. I have a Eureka VGII brush roll in mine, and it cleans like a beast! I also have an Airstorm. As I recall, it has a slightly higher amperage motor. It's also an excellent vacuum.

Post# 123707 , Reply# 6 2/1/2011 at 21:59 (4,831 days old) by kirbykid63 (Wilmington Delaware)
Checkrate/Likes *I really like my miracle mate.* Last week I found a miracle mate platinum series at my local goodwill store for a great price.The original power nozzle was cracked on the bottom so I am using a eureka world vac power nozzle and I like the performance very much.

Post# 123711 , Reply# 7 2/1/2011 at 22:21 (4,831 days old) by kubvan1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Dumb Question* I hate to show my ignorance, but who made the TriStar powernozzles that are often seen with the CXL (like mine) with the metal top plate and gray/black hammertone finish as on the vacuum itself? It uses an Ametek motor and wide flat belt, and I like it's performance fairly well as far as PN's go. I think the added weight of the metal top helps. It seems well built overall. Regards Doug

Post# 123712 , Reply# 8 2/1/2011 at 22:26 (4,831 days old) by kubvan1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *My question was already answered* I guess the answer to my previous question is that Eureka made the CXL power nozzles! I guess I assumed differently as the fancy metal top threw me off! Cheers, Doug

Post# 123726 , Reply# 9 2/2/2011 at 00:11 (4,831 days old) by Kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)
Checkrate/Likes *Philip, the Vortech Force does work good.....* But it's achilles heel is the fact that it doesn't have a HEPA filter on the exhaust. All that it has it the Microfilter attachment that fits onto the motor, same as the Tri-Star's pre-motor filter cap. Also, the Patriot & Miracle Mate also has the advantage, over all these Tri-Star wannabees, is that they place the bag at an angle, which helps the vacuum retain some of its suction a little longer. And when you consider that the Patriot is just as powerful & they are selling it with the same powerhead as the Vortech Force, the Wessell EBK 340.....well I guess I would personally take the Patriot. Also, the Miracle Mate may be a nice vacuum, with a good Sebo ET-C L-shaped commercial powerhead & just as much suction as the Patriot, but it is MUCH heavier, & not as easy to lug around as either the earlier Tri-Stars or Patriot. Rob

Post# 123733 , Reply# 10 2/2/2011 at 02:13 (4,831 days old) by twocvbloke ()
Checkrate/Likes Just a little correction: The Tristar "Turbo Brush" is not made by Eureka, the predecessor (the ones like, say, a Eureka Powerteam PN) to the Turbo Brush was, but the later ones as used on the CXL were entirely in-house, based loosely on the Eureka PN, but it was made by Tristar themselves with their own design to improve performance... :) I love my Tristar, it was the yardstick for many a vac test for a while on youtube (not done by myself), but it's even better since it came to the UK cos the motor I got, made for a Numatic Henry, is more powerful for the same power (1000 Watts) as it has tapered fins on the fan, so generates more suction and airflow compared to it's original motor... :) And the PN has a modified 4-row VGII brushroll, the brush strips used are VGIII strips (longer bristles and have bristle stiffeners), and works much better than the assumed-mod of just slapping a regular VGII brushroll in there (doesn't work!!!)... :) Just need to get the HEPA filter dome for it, the "buttplug" filter is cool to own, but, it can get hung up on things too easily... :)

Post# 123757 , Reply# 11 2/2/2011 at 10:22 (4,830 days old) by kirbykid63 (Wilmington Delaware)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Miracle mate bags and filters* I am running my miracle mate without the exhaust hepa filters. With the advice of one of our members I cut the top off a miracle mate bag and use the tristar bags,this works great I wish tristar bags were double layer.Hope to find a source of lower priced generic bags to run in my miracle mate.

Post# 123771 , Reply# 12 2/2/2011 at 11:58 (4,830 days old) by twocvbloke ()
Checkrate/Likes There are double layer generic bags for the Tristar, but the act of vacuuming up fine sand and grit means that the microliner ends up being sandblasted off and leaves you with just the outer layer as filtration, which defeats the purpose really... :) There is a "southern engineering" fix for this, and that is to pop-rivet a piece of plastic onto the back of the lid to act as a deflector, this allows the cyclonic action to work as normal, but saves the bags from being "erased" as someone I know put it... :P

Post# 123786 , Reply# 13 2/2/2011 at 13:47 (4,830 days old) by Kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)
Checkrate/Likes @Richard/kirbykid63: Well, I am glad to hear my advice was of some help to you. As far as generic Miracle Mate bags, I know I have seen generic ones being sold on Ebay a while ago....so just keep your eyes peeled. Or, ask your local vac dealer to enquire about them with his local parts distributor. I am sure he would appreciate it, actually, if he could get generics to sell at a lower cost to his customers. However, if you are picking up fine dirt, I would just stick to using Tri-Star bags with a Miracle Mate bag top, as I suggested. In my area, I find I pick up lots of sand & fine grit, & it clogs easily, so it's really easy to just take the bag outside & dump the contents outside & reuse the bag a couple of times. Thats why I started using Tri-Star bags....I found the Miracle Mate bags had too much filtration, & of course got frustrated with having to throw out expensive bags with hardly any dirt in them. I imagine you would also have this problem if you used the micro-lined Tri-Star bags, as the micro-liner would just cling onto the fine dust. @David/twocvbloke: Yes, you could get the HEPA filter dome for your Tri-Star, but I would just buy the Patriot's Medik-Aire HEPA filter from them & stick it on your Tri-Star. I presently use the HEPA filter dome on my Miracle Mate, as there is no other way to do it, & that's the ONLY reason I use them. On my Miracle Mate (which is an earlier model, before they put the bag on an angle), the Patriot's HEPA filter simply won't fit into the exhaust port- the slot on the filter's pipe won't work with the pin on the Miracle Mate's exhaust port & it won't stay in place when the vacuum is turned on. You really don't get much HEPA filter paper in the filter itself, & the filters cost anywhere from $15-$20 CDN, depending on which shop you go to, & the manufacturer suggests replacing every 6 months. The Patriot's HEPA filter, when bought direct from Schoettler Research & Engineering, is $200 US dollars. However, the manufacturer suggests changing once every 3 years, so that breaks down to $66.66 per year, compared to $40 per year changing the HEPA filter domes. Think of it this way....you are paying about the same cost per year if you owned a Miele & were changing the HEPA filter once a year, if you use the Patriot's filter. The other thing to consider, is that the Patriot's HEPA filter is MASSIVE- my Tri-Star looks like it has a balloon stuck onto it! There's NO WAY the HEPA filter domes would outfilter the Patriot's HEPA filter, even if they were changed more frequently, due to the amount of filtering media the Patriot's filter has. As a matter of fact, the filter is so big, I would be willing to bet if one made sure the bags were changed when necessary & kept the foam filter dome clean, that most households could actually get 5 years out of each filter. Also, the Patriot's HEPA filter is a Certified HEPA, something the HEPA filter domes can't claim.... You are wise not to use the Filter Fresh filtration system Tri-Star makes for them, though, as they clog rather quickly & makes the vacuum lose a lot of it's power. I know you don't like the idea of using a clunky filter on the exhaust, but I would give it a bit of thought. Rob BTW- As I was finishing this post, I figured out that if you use the Patriot's HEPA filter for 5 years, it works out to $40 per year, so it would break even with the yearly cost of the HEPA filter domes.

Post# 123821 , Reply# 14 2/2/2011 at 19:31 (4,830 days old) by kubvan1 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Patriot HEPA* Not sure if it's just marketing, but a few places claim that properly set up, the Patriot HEPA machine outperformed serious cleanroom machines by Nilfisk etc. I somehow can't see these being used commercially in real life, but the Patriot filters do claim true HEPA filtration. Not that it would do much good in my house that has a dirt floor basement, and enough dust and mold to ruin the health of all but the most respiratorally robust person.