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Thread Number: 10551
Good Powerhead Cainster? |
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Post# 114066 11/8/2010 at 17:42 (4,907 days old) by bagintheback  (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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I am so tired of uprights right now. I have given my last clean-air bagged upright to my uncle and it's been hard. Now when I need a hose I have to walk to my room and grab a Hoover Elite converter and set the whole thing up for little suction.
I have one canister which is the current generation Kenmore Magic Blue. I would use it normally but it has no power-head so I can't pick up pet hair. I seriously have no good bagged hose uprights. So, I need to get a canister soon. Here is what I'd like: *It must cost less than $250 *It must be bagged *Ether a long cord or a long hose, but I'd like both. *A power-head *If no longer made, the bags and belts should be available for a long time. I will be seriously down-sizing my collection soon so It does not have to be super small. Thanks, this will help me alot when cleaning with my dad :) | ||
| Post# 114067 , Reply# 1 11/8/2010 at 17:45 (4,907 days old) by electroluxxxx (……) | ||
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go for a eureka with either a VG3 or vg2, or if you want try to find a hoover with a quadraflex powermatic, both of these are highly recommended and will make the rugs look great and last longer | ||
| Post# 114075 , Reply# 2 11/8/2010 at 18:12 (4,907 days old) by rexaird () | ||
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The problem with the Hoover is that they no longer make any parts for that machine, so if you wear the brush strips out you can't get any more. | ||
| Post# 114076 , Reply# 3 11/8/2010 at 18:19 (4,907 days old) by vacman117 (Chicago, IL) | ||
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| Post# 114077 , Reply# 4 11/8/2010 at 18:21 (4,907 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 114117 , Reply# 5 11/9/2010 at 06:20 (4,906 days old) by xraytech () | ||
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my suggestion would be an Electrolux, there are plenty of super J's and Olympias out there that are inexpensive | ||
| Post# 114122 , Reply# 6 11/9/2010 at 07:29 (4,906 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
If you don't mind pushing your price limit up to $300, Consumer Reports rated 2 pn canisters very well: The Kenmore Progressive 27514 ($300) and the Hoover WindTunnel S3670 ($300). Both are very good on carpets, but the WindTunnel has better suction through the hose for tool use. Unfortunately, the Hoover is not the best at handling (I think someone said the wheels are a bit too small).
Your other option is the Panasonic version of the now discontinued Kenmore Progressive 27210. It's the Panasonic MC-CG902 and only costs around $200. It is very good at everything, and gives you a nice separate dusting brush and separate upholstery nozzle on board (not a weird combo brush). This red Panasonic even merited the "Best Buy" label by CR - very good "suck for the buck"! :-) | ||
| Post# 114123 , Reply# 7 11/9/2010 at 07:34 (4,906 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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Oh...forgot a link to the Panasonic...
Here's a link to the Panasonic I recommend...
The only thing I really don't like about this model is I find it hard to remove the hose handle from the wand....the newer Kenmores have an easier design to work with. I say try it out at the store and see if you find the disconnect/connect process a problem. CLICK HERE TO GO TO eurekaprince's LINK | ||
| Post# 114130 , Reply# 8 11/9/2010 at 08:44 (4,906 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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Nathaniel....if you want to save yourself some real money...
Why don't you just get a great bagged upright as a companion to your canister? If you have the room to store 2 machines, this is actually the most convenient thing to do.
For $80 you can get the Hoover Tempo which I bought several months ago. It is excellent for carpet cleaning and is easy to use, has great filtration and not that noisy. Just ignore the little flashes of light you get for the first few weeks from the electric switch (these disappear after a few weeks). I love this vac - and it cleans carpets beautifully. It would make a great companion to your Kenmore Magic Blue. | ||
| Post# 114137 , Reply# 9 11/9/2010 at 10:56 (4,906 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas) | ||
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Post# 114172 , Reply# 10 11/9/2010 at 16:41 (4,906 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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| Post# 114175 , Reply# 12 11/9/2010 at 16:59 (4,906 days old) by constellation86 (Roy, UT) | ||
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Get the Panasonic it has a 14 FOOT wide nozzle! Nicholas | ||
| Post# 114176 , Reply# 13 11/9/2010 at 17:07 (4,906 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas) | ||
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| Post# 114187 , Reply# 15 11/9/2010 at 18:48 (4,906 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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Post# 114191 , Reply# 16 11/9/2010 at 19:25 (4,906 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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| Post# 114194 , Reply# 17 11/9/2010 at 20:23 (4,906 days old) by djkain2007 () | ||
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tristars are excellent... i'd sell you my c80 for $65 + shipping. It has the eureka vg3 pn, a new(er) motor, new long cord, new (long-ish) hose, and i got 24 bags for it on ebay for $13. It's a beast! | ||
| Post# 114199 , Reply# 18 11/9/2010 at 21:18 (4,906 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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Nat - I don't think the new cheapie, "made in China" Kenmores are any good. The dusting brush is horrible and I have no idea about the power of the motor, or the length of the cord or hose. The tool compartment cover seems flimsy to me. Not quite sure about it's ease of use either. You could always buy it and return it to Sears if you don't like it though!
For a little more money, you can get that red Panasonic I mentioned and you will be served by a tried and true, tested machine that many people have bought (as a Kenmore Progressive) over the past five years. It's got a 24 foot cord and decent on board tools. You can even buy a better horse-hair Kenmore dusting brush that will fit in the tool storage area of the Panasonic. | ||
| Post# 114260 , Reply# 19 11/10/2010 at 13:29 (4,905 days old) by vacman117 (Chicago, IL) | ||
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I have seen that Kenmore at Sears before. It is nice, but the hose is short. I reccommend getting a yellow Progressive canister off of eBay like mine. It has a terrific power nozzle, light in the telescopic wand and power nozzle, and the tools are just like the old Kenmore canisters from the 90s. The dusting brush is VERY soft and nice to use. It also have an electric mini turbo brush that is amazing.
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| Post# 115865 , Reply# 23 11/25/2010 at 21:45 (4,890 days old) by thevacuumman (Borger, TX) | ||
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The thing about the tristar is I used to have A interstate PN but I put a eureka PN on it and solved my problems with the bristles not sticking out far enough | ||
| Post# 116861 , Reply# 24 12/4/2010 at 03:52 (4,881 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Nathaniel, I would take Eurekaprince's suggestion & buy 
But I wouldn't buy new. Instead, I would look at buying a used Kenmore Whispertone model from the '90's.
Back then, they were still using the Ametek double-stage motors that were being used in the Tri-Stars & Filter Queens. These motors will easily last 15-20 years on each set of carbon brushes, & have a lifespan of 30-40 years. You still see Kenmores from the early 80's coming into the repair shop still working using these same motors- now what does that tell ya? Now, the motors in new Kenmore/Panasonics are single-stage Panasonic motors- they are just as powerful as the double-stage motors, both will pull 90 inches on a waterlift gauge. But they just don't hold up the way they used to. It's not uncommon to see a 3 or 4 yr old Kenmore/Panasonic with a blown motor, & a $150 bill for the cost of the motor alone, let alone the labor. Another common problem for the newer Kenmore/Panasonics is blown circuit boards inside the canister-yet another expensive problem to fix. The relay boxes on the older Kenmore/Panasonics are extremely reliable & rarely break. The features are still unchanged- quick-release nozzle, off/floor/carpet powerswitch on the handle, swivel hose, etc. You won't be able to get one with a HEPA filter, but why would you want one when they aren't sealed?! The HEPA bags work good anyways for allergy sufferers, and are inexpensive- my local repair shop charges 3/$9.99 for their generic cloth HEPA bags. Paper bags are also very economically priced @ 10/$12.97 at Sears. They also have a very large useable bag capacity. These would be big factors if you are picking up lots of pet hair & going thru bags quickly. The Powermate Jr small electric brush attachment works great & is a really big advantage to these models- makes stair cleaning/small space cleanup & pet hair a breeze! You can purchase one from any Panasonic dealer or Sears store for $50. It won't store onboard, however, but that problem is easily solved with a clip-on holder that attaches to the wand, about $20 from any Panasonic dealer. Another plus is the older models also come with dedicated dusting & upholstery tools, the new models come with combo tools which I personally find annoying. And of course the older tools are better quality. The floor brush is also well-designed, I personally feel one of the best designs on the market, & will do a great job on floors should you use a canister for floors. The powerhead is also more reliable on the older models, too. Back in the 90s they were still making the powerheads with the 2 brush/1 beater bar configuration with the metal end caps that weren't prone to melting like the newer chevron brushrolls with plastic endcaps. The wheels on some of the newer powerbrushes are also problematic & can fall off & need replacing- this was never a problem with the older models. The V belts on the newer powerheads are just as reliable as the cog belts on the older powerheads, however, so that won't be an issue. If you buy an older model, there are a couple of things to watch out for. DO NOT BUY A KENMORE WITH A FLOATING BAG CHANGE INDICATOR! These models look the same, BUT inside they have the single-stage motors that they were starting to use in the late 90s. Instead, look for one that has the bag change indicator light at the back- this is an indication that it is a model that has the double-stage motor. If you do buy a Kenmore from the 90s that has the single-stage motor & later decide to upgrade to the double-stage motor, you can buy a used white plastic motor-housing from a dealer's scrap pile, & use that with the new motor. Assuming you buy a model with the double-stage motor, it would also be advisable to buy a new set of carbon brushes & either install them yourself or have the dealer do it, as the carbon brushes in the motor will probably need to be changed in 2-3 years anyways- this will assure you of trouble-free cleaning for many years to come. While you are at it, it would be also be wise to buy a spare Kenmore canister with the 3-prong plug in the canister, as these Kenmore/Panasonics did have a problem with the plastic around the caster wheel cracking. It should be fine if you take reasonable care, but it wouldn't hurt to have one on hand & you would be getting a spare motor, cordreel, etc. Also, consider buying one of the older powerheads so you have a spare brushroll on hand with the metal endcaps- the older brushrolls are no longer available & you would have to replace with the chevron-style brush if the bristles wear out, plus you will have the spare motor, etc. Note too, that the older powerbrush will work with newer Kenmores that have the 2-piece wand with quick release, should you buy a newer Kenmore & later decide you don't like the newer powerbrush. Whether you buy a newer or older Kenmore, of course be gentle on the hose & NEVER LEAVE THE HOSE ON THE WAND WHEN STORING IT! It will cause the vinyl to tear, so take it off the wand & let the handle rest on the ground. Now, should you prefer to buy a new machine, I would STRONGLY suggest you buy the optional 5 year extended warranty for $150 thru Sears. It will pay for your motor replacement- and it WILL need replaced in the warranty period- and cover anything else wrong with it- so for the cost of replacing the motor alone you would get your moneys worth out of the warranty. Should you not like the combo tools, the older dusting brush & upholstery tools are available at Panasonic dealers & Sears stores, & you can always store them on a clip-on tool caddy on the wand. Of course, you can also use any generic 1 1/4 tools from any other vac too. Be sure to check vac shops for good deals, or Ebay. You should easily be able to find a refurbished older model Kenmore for around $150-$200. Also check yard & garage sales too. As far as the other suggestions here, I would not recommend them for your particular use. The Electrolux, Royal Powertank & Tristar/Miracle Mate designs wouldn't have very big useable bag capacity, especially with the Electrolux, & you would be changing bags much more with either of these machines. And their powerbrushes wouldn't pick up pet hair as well, either. You also wouldn't get the features of the Kenmore, either, such as the quick-release wands or powerswitch on the hose handle. So, hope this helps a bit in making your choice! | ||
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Post# 116877 , Reply# 26 12/4/2010 at 09:59 (4,881 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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kirbylux77 | ||
| Post# 116903 , Reply# 27 12/4/2010 at 15:56 (4,881 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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Well, if you do buy a Tri-Star......
Then at some point, you might want to consider upgrading to Eureka Express series powernozzle, as you probably won't like the Tri-Star nozzle on pet hair.
But like I said, you would still be best off buying an older model Kenmore Whispertone....you'll appreciate the beater bar powerbrush, cog belt, & you would get MUCH more useable bag capacity than the Tri-Star's. Let us all know how you make out & post some pics when you buy one. | ||
| Post# 116913 , Reply# 28 12/4/2010 at 17:19 (4,881 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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Key there Rob in Orillia...not far away!!!
How did you know that I had to replace the motor in my Kenmore 27210 Elegance/Progressive canister? LOL!!!!! I bought it in 2001 or 2002 methinks.....
I took such good care of that thing...replacing bags when half full, replacing pre-motor and post-motor filtres, opening the suction valve whenever the red "bag check" light would come on (usually when using the crevice tool). But one fine day, when I was using Kennie for some light dusting of books, all of a sudden I heard a "pop", the motor shut down and smoke started coming out of all the orifices! I let it cool off for 24 hours, but that did nothing - vacuum dead. I had not bought a service plan, and Sears wanted me to shlep out to some place in Etobicoke to bring it in for repairs (why don't they take repairs at the stores?). So I brought it into a local vac shop in Toronto, and indeed it cost me about $150 to put in a new Panasonic motor. BUT - the guy who did the repair was really nasty (did not like me playing with the new vacs on display in the shop), and for some reason, he did not put the vac back together so well and the pieces are not very well aligned. Because of this, my mom (who now owns Kennie), can no longer install a post-motor HEPA filtre because with one of those exhaust filters installed, the thing whines and whistles!!!!So her cleaning lady uses it without the exhaust filtre - I bought a supply of nice big Kenmore cloth Hepa bags, and we forego using a HEPA exhaust filtre. I figure without the exhaust filter, the replacement motor will stay cooler and live longer. Now I know that I am one of many Kenmore owners who have had to replace a single-stage motor in a pn canister. Still, I find the vac to be a great performer, and would buy any of those new Kenmores that rated well by Consumer Reports - but I would also by the service plan to cover the inevitable burn out of the motor. Wonder which motor is in that red Panasonic that I recommended in a post further up? Brian down in Toronto :-) | ||
| Post# 116925 , Reply# 29 12/4/2010 at 17:59 (4,881 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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Post# 116934 , Reply# 30 12/4/2010 at 18:48 (4,881 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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| Post# 116938 , Reply# 31 12/4/2010 at 18:54 (4,881 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 116998 , Reply# 32 12/5/2010 at 00:02 (4,881 days old) by powertank () | ||
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Just FYI, you actually can still get the brushrolls for the older Kenmore powerheads. Those have to be some of the best brushrolls around. | ||
| Post# 117179 , Reply# 33 12/5/2010 at 20:18 (4,880 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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@Suckolux: If your Kenmore was made after 1998, then it does have the single-stage motor, not the double-stage.
They first started using single-stage Ametek 5.7-inch motors in the mid-90's in their BOL or MOL canisters. These motors were VERY powerful- pulled about the same suction as their double-stage cousins; BUT to achieve it, they increased the 'resting' RPM that the motor runs at (this is when you are using the p/n or floor tool)- thus, putting more wear & tear on the armature & carbon brushes. It is RARE to see one of these single-stage Ametek motors make it past 10 years before dying. Then around 1997 or 1998, they started using Panasonic 5.7-inch motors in place of Ametek. When the first generation of Kenmore Whispertone's with HEPA filter came out, they started using a smaller diameter Ametek motor again, then they switched to Panasonic motors again (exact year I can't be certain- probably around 2005/2006). And just this year, I picked up a spare 'beater' 2009 Whispertone for parts (I have a 2001 model that I use for a 'regular' vac) and the motor was a Chinese motor- said "Sip Cinderson Motor Co, Ltd" on the motor; HOWEVER, this was a BOL model, so they may still be using Panasonic motors in the TOL canisters. @Powertank: Yes, you can get new brushrolls for the older Beater-Brush Kenmore p/n's. HOWEVER, they are not the original brushrolls with the beater & metal endcaps- they are the new-style Chevron brushroll with the plastic endcaps that we all know have been problematic. Thats why I suggested Nathaniel pick up a spare older p/n- because he would get the older brush, & plenty of spare parts he may need in the future- motor, nozzle neck, etc. @EurekaPrince Brian: If you maintain the HEPA filter by changing it yearly, that wouldn't have caused the motor to die prematurely by overheating. As a matter of fact, one REALLY disappointing thing about these Kenmores is that the HEPA is not sealed at all! Ever notice black dust surrounding the filter in the compartment?! Considering these canisters sell anywhere from $300-$650 CDN, thats something thats inexcuseable- especially when I can walk into my local vac shop & buy a new Riccar Pristine with a sealed HEPA filter, 100" waterlift suction power, swivel casters & wands/powerhead/tools that are just as nice as Kenmores all for only $699 CDN with a 7 year motor warranty! My 2001 Kenmore Whispertone is very similar to your Kenmore Elegance, Brian- With Ametek motor, HEPA filter, hose, etc- But yours would have come with the newer-style p/n with wheels on the side, slightly different body style (Mine has the combo dusting/upholstery tool). I picked it up in 2007 to use as a 'regular' vacuum for $40 CDN from Value Village, so if the motor dies right now, it sure doesn't owe me anything! As far as the Panasonic you recommended to Nataniel, I suspect it would use the Panasonic motor, not the Ametek or "Sip Cinderson" motor I was mentioning above. It is a lower-tier cousin to the vac-shop exclusive Performance Plus Platinum canister, so they would probably be smart enough not to cheep out on the motor. And one thing you probably didn't know- aftermarket HEPA bags are available for the Kenmore HEPA bags in most vac shops. The ones I buy are 3/$9.95 at the local vac shop. They don't claim HEPA on them- instead they say 'high efficiency micro filter'- But they are cloth polypropylene bags & just as good as other HEPA bags for other vacs I own, such as my Kirbys. They probably just don't say HEPA to avoid legal problems. Sure beats paying 2/$16.97 at Sears. Perhaps if you like, Brian, we could chat on the phone sometime, & next time I am in Toronto, have a mini-meet, as I do come down frequently. I'll email you privately. Rob | ||
| Post# 117180 , Reply# 34 12/5/2010 at 20:21 (4,880 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 117181 , Reply# 35 12/5/2010 at 20:26 (4,880 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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Brian, This is my 2001 Kenmore Whispertone..... | ||
| Post# 117183 , Reply# 36 12/5/2010 at 20:29 (4,880 days old) by hype822 () | ||
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i never heard of Sip Cinderson Motor Co, Ltd before, so i looked them up. their site says that they started in 2002. here is the link if you want to know more about them. CLICK HERE TO GO TO hype822's LINK | ||
| Post# 117184 , Reply# 37 12/5/2010 at 20:30 (4,880 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 117186 , Reply# 38 12/5/2010 at 20:34 (4,880 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 117201 , Reply# 39 12/5/2010 at 21:33 (4,880 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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Nathaniel, this is the Kenmore I was suggesting you buy....
Like I was talking about, this is one of many models from the 90's with the bag change light near the cord-rewind pedal at the back. It would have the same Ametek double-stage motor as the Tri-Star, Miracle Mate & Filter Queen canisters, so with a new set of carbon brushes you would get a VERY long life out of the motor.
I know you have your heart set on a Tri-Star, but I tell ya you would be much better off with a Kenmore. It's not that the Tri-Star & Miracle Mate have a smaller bag. What I meant by 'useable bag capacity' isn't how much the bag is capable of holding, but rather how much the bag can hold before power drastically drops off to the point where you need to change the bag to maintain decent cleaning power. The Tri-Star, Vortech Force, Miracle Mate, & Patriot/Airstorm have 2 fatal design flaws- first being that they use a vertical bag rather than one that lays on its side, such as what Kenmore/Eureka/Hoover use. What winds up happening is when the bag is about 1/3 full, it blocks off airflow to the motor, since the motor is directly behind the lower half of the bag. Second is that, in my experience, fine dust tends to stick the sides of the paper bag & clog it prematurely. Others may not find this as problematic, though, if they are picking up lots of carpet fibers or pet hair. Patriot attempt to overcome the problem of the vertical bag by positioning the bag at an angle instead of straight up-down, & Miracle Mate uses a patented airflow guide in addition to angling the bag to encourage dirt to settle at the front of the bag, but these measures don't compensate enough to overcome these basic design flaws. One other thing the Kenmore also has going for it, is the micro-filter bags. They really don't let a lot of dust back into the air, & the HEPA bags are perfect for my allergies- I love those bags! The Tri-Stars, however, do throw a lot of dust back into the air, & you would not be pleased if you are an allergy sufferer or don't like lots of dust in the air after vacuuming. Nathaniel, I can honestly say from personal experience from owning several Kenmores, a Tri-Star & Miracle Mate, that you would not be pleased with a Tri-Star over time, especially if you were using it against the Kenmore for a long period of time & could see the difference in cleaning performance. As a matter of fact, I will say that even the Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition canister would be a better choice than the Tri-Star- and thats saying a lot, since anyone that knows me knows I don't like Chinese-made junk! And, it also doesn't hurt that it comes with a standard 3 year warranty. I know it is a little out of your original price range of $250, since it retails for $350, but well worth considering.... OK, I will get off my Kenmore kick now! Rob 
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| Post# 117205 , Reply# 40 12/5/2010 at 21:45 (4,880 days old) by powertank () | ||
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So did I. I meant we are still able to get the original style brushrolls, with the metal endcaps. We have three or four in stock and I'm 95% sure they aren't NOS. I'll double check when I'm in during the week. | ||
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Post# 117207 , Reply# 41 12/5/2010 at 21:53 (4,880 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona) |
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Rob | ||
| Post# 117221 , Reply# 42 12/5/2010 at 23:26 (4,880 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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Powertank, you've got to be kidding, right?
I know that when the chevron brushes first came out, they had the metal endcaps, but lasted only a couple of years. About 3 years ago, I searched online for the beater-bar brushroll & everywhere I looked, it was saying discontinued. When you say you can get 'original-style' brushrolls with metal endcaps, are you referring to the beater-bar brushroll or the chevron brushroll? It would be interesting to find out who the supplier is & where they are being made....Thankfully though, I have 3 or 4 beater-bar brushrolls set aside & plenty of brush & beater strips....enough to last several lifetimes.
@Nathaniel: Yes, I do have one spare Kenmore that I might be willing to part ways with. It's a white Kenmore 7100 from the late 80's....it is a BOL model with the curved metal handle, power on-off on the canister, & no quick release on the wand, but it does have the double-stage motor & would have originally come with the beater-bar powermate with cogged belt. I am not certain I have a spare powerhead for it though, so let me rummage around a little bit & see what I can dig up.... @Suckolux: Thanks for the compliment! I have always been very good at repairs. And many times I have been able to figure out how to modify & jury-rig a vac when necessary, either because of parts being NLA or to overcome a bad design. One time, a friend had a Fantom Twister 500 DX upright bagless vac (One of the newer Euro-pro made ones) & the vac was staying on when pushed but going off when pulled back. Turns out it had to do with a micro-plug & receptacle becoming disconnected slightly when pulled back, just enough for the vac to lose power...easy enough to just bypass the plug/receptacle & just rewire the wires directly. Nowadays, most all of my friends come to me expecting repairs...and I am happy to oblige & help when I can. Interesting you should say though...As much as I am on good terms with the owner of the local vac shop, he has said many times he hopes & prays I don't go into business....he knows that I know enough knowledge about vacs & repairs that I would EASILY bury him if I opened up shop- he just wouldn't be able to compete! LOL! Rob | ||
| Post# 117330 , Reply# 44 12/6/2010 at 18:52 (4,879 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
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Tolivac, I honestly can say my experience is opposite of you
I have actually found my vertical-bag Tri-Star & Miracle Mate actually plug BEFORE my Kenmores, & any other similar machines, like my Eureka canisters. As a matter of fact, I get at least DOUBLE the useable bag capacity before having to change bags with the Kenmore than the Tri-Star.
And, I have not found the Filtrete bags any better at maintaining power than micro-filter paper bags. When I use the Filtrete bags in my Kenmores that don't have the HEPA exhaust filter, they do retain the dust for sure- but they lose power just as bad as the Kenmores that I am using Sears paper bags in. Same experience with my 2 Mieles when I use the IntensiveClean bags in them. But I have heard the HyClean bags are better, so I will reserve final judgement till I try the HyClean bags & see if there's any improvement. The theory that vertical bag canister vacuums maintain power because they pull the dirt & air over the old dirt hold true at the start, but because the motor is directly behind the bottom of the bag, once the bag reaches about 1/3 to 1/2 full, the dirt in the bag is full enough that it blocks the air to the motor & airflow is decreased enough that the vacuum no longer has sufficient cleaning power. And this is the EXACT reason why Miracle Mate & Patriot have the bags angled in their newest machines, to try & overcome this problem. However, now you have me thinking, Tolivac- I am gonna try cutting open a Kenmore bag & using it in place of the paper bag on my Tri-Star & see if it helps. Rob | ||
| Post# 117538 , Reply# 46 12/8/2010 at 16:05 (4,877 days old) by beerad (Beautiful Vancouver BC) | ||
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Nathaniel.... Based on what you have shared, I would suggestthe Kenmore canister in the above thread #10799 Kenmore. Check it out. | ||
| Post# 119852 , Reply# 48 1/1/2011 at 14:46 (4,853 days old) by twocvbloke () | ||
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And t'uther pic: 
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| Post# 119895 , Reply# 49 1/1/2011 at 21:36 (4,853 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada) | ||
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