Thread Number: 760
Before and After!
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Post# 7711   1/7/2007 at 20:42 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Hey everyone!

I'm always interested by 'Before and After' pictures of restorations and rennovations. Here are a few of my own, I'd love to see other people's!

Model 700:


Post# 7712 , Reply# 1   1/7/2007 at 20:43 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Model 800

Model 800:



Post# 7713 , Reply# 2   1/7/2007 at 20:43 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Model 900

Model 900:

Post# 7714 , Reply# 3   1/7/2007 at 20:44 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Model 543

Model 543:



Post# 7716 , Reply# 4   1/7/2007 at 20:50 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Model 925

Here's one of my favourite 'Before' pics - there's no 'After' as yet because I haven't quite finished working on it. Notice the very unusual bag (gold lettering rather than white, double-layered lower section to guard against wear and leather patches at the bottom to protect it from the bag-securing catches!), and the double-cord set of hooks for the extra-long cord!

Post# 7724 , Reply# 5   1/7/2007 at 21:47 (6,289 days old) by myhooverco ()        

WOW...what beautiful Hoover Cleaners. You do excellent work. These great machines really do deserve to be preserved and appreciated. I bet they sound as good as they look! Thanks for the pictures!!!!

--Tom

I never think to take a before picture...I always take an "after" instead.


Post# 7727 , Reply# 6   1/7/2007 at 21:50 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Thanks Tom - they do indeed run like new, and since getting a digital camera with the ability to record sound as well as movie clips, I will eventually be able to provide footage of them in action...I just need to find a free moment to do some filming!

Post# 7733 , Reply# 7   1/7/2007 at 22:10 (6,289 days old) by charles~richard ()        
Yes, quite beautiful

and the finish is appropriate. Stan Kann often frets when people highly buff out the finish on the 700s, 800s and 900s. He often declares that when they were new, they were not "glistening like chrome" but had more of a matte, hand-rubbed finish.

A puzzlement about your 900 and 925. I had a 925 once upon a time but it was slightly different than yours. It had the same headlight housing with the dramatic streamlined "rays," but also had the curlycues" in the top of the brush housing as your 900 has; and it had a black and silver triangular Hoover medallion.

Your 900 has the curlycues and not the rays, and your 925 has the rays but not the curlycues!

Also, the medallion on yours is different from mine, as is the bag. (I also had an 825 once upon a time, and I believe it had the bag that your 925 has.)

Could there have been more than one version of the 925?

That was one of the machines I let ago during the tragic near-move-out scare a couple years ago, and now I really regret seeing it go. To me it's the most beautiful of that type of design -- the ones with the exposed motor housing, pre-150 style.

In fact, you can see my 925 in the link below, on my "museum" site. You can clearly see the details, including the original bag. It also had the fully intact long rubber handle grip and, I believe, still had the original bag roll-up spring at the top.

Oy vey... WHAT was I thinking when I got rid of it?! (Anyone have one they want to pass on to a good home, haha?!)

According to Stan Kann, the 900 and 925 were commercial models -- a little heavier-duty than the 800 and 825. The 925 does weigh a good bit more and, if I recall correctly, has a slightly longer handle.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO charles~richard's LINK


Post# 7738 , Reply# 8   1/7/2007 at 22:26 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Charles - I've long-admired the 925 on your site - I doubt mine will ever look as good as that, even after restoration! I just have to be glad I have one at all, since they're notoriously difficult to find over here!

Did your 925 have the additional set of cord hooks on the other side of the handle? I can't tell from the photo...

All Hoover models beginning with 9 (961/972/900/925/960/912 etc...) were commercial machines - see the 'Commercial Machines' page on my site for more details! I don't think the handle is longer than my other machines, but the roller for the bag retracting cord is mounted higher up, because the commercial machines had a larger bag than their domestic sisters.

My machine does in fact have the wings engraved either side of the badge, but they don't show up in the picture because the black paint which emphasises them had peeled away. The badge itself is the brass-type, and would have been orange originally, like the 700/725/750, but again, the paint has peeled off. It also features the words 'An Empire Product' on the badge, meaning it was built in Canada before the Perivale factory opened in London. This makes it an early version, because later machines would have had the black-and-silver badge, and would have been made in the UK. Oddly, though, the motor plate states that it was made in Perivale...

I agree with you about it being the most beautiful of the pre-war machines; I love the whole 370/450/800/925 model range.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO vintagehoover's LINK


Post# 7740 , Reply# 9   1/7/2007 at 22:43 (6,289 days old) by charles~richard ()        
I'd forgotten...

what a great web site you have! Haven't visited in a while. And it appears that your 925 does indeed have the correct bag. I wonder then, which model the bag that was on mine is from. Tom Anderson, do you know??

And yes, now I can see the "curlycues" in yours! :)

Gee, I loved that machine... *sigh*



Post# 7746 , Reply# 10   1/7/2007 at 23:00 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

The bag your 925 has in the photo is the one which would have originally gone on Model 825 - although both models may have used the same bag design, of course, so it could well be original...

The bizzare thing about the bag my one has is that when I got the machine, I opened the bag and there was nothing inside it; I don't just mean it was empty, it was like brand new - not the usual hairs which get caught in the weave, no dust, nothing...just clean black fabric. Even more amazing given the poor condition of the machine itself.

According to my very generous benefactor, it had sat in the cupboard of an old building for years before someone bought it at an estate sale and sold it on eBay to him...could it be possible it had just been serviced and provided with a brand new bag before being shut away for several decades, never to be used again?

Clearly, the bag is specifically designed for commercial models, with the gold lettering, and all the reinforcements, but is it original to the machine? I've never seen another one like it! Given that it's an early 925, surely its original bag should have matched that of the Model 800...who knows? It's a mystery!



Post# 7747 , Reply# 11   1/7/2007 at 23:12 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Here's a pic I took of an 825 at the Bakelite Museum in Devon - I think the bag is the one fitted to your 925.

Post# 7759 , Reply# 12   1/8/2007 at 00:49 (6,289 days old) by charles~richard ()        
Yes, that's it.

I think an idea many of us have is that "complete" changes were made to models by the various manufacturers all at once, and that once a model was rolled out no more changes were made until the next model came out; when that may not have been the case.

With Kirby in particular, I am pretty sure that some changes did not occur concurrently with the release of new models. What I mean is, the early and late runs of a particular model may have received changes during production, instead of waiting for the new model to come out. So yes, an early 925 could have had one bag and the late one a different one.

btw, what is that art-deco looking thing we can see just the edge of in your above photo?


Post# 7772 , Reply# 13   1/8/2007 at 07:19 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

If we're talking about the left edge, I think it's some kinda electric heater type thing...I was mainly taking pics of the wonderful vacuum collection - I was so delighted to find that the museum had them, I skipped past a lot of the rest of them items (not literally, of course!), and didn't take photos. I really regret this now, there were so many fasinating things...

Post# 7774 , Reply# 14   1/8/2007 at 07:33 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

That's very true, what you say about design changes being made along the way - there are many Hoover pre-war uprights which have 'early' or 'late' production details, often with a design feature being carried over from the model it was replacing, then being phased out as production went on for something newer - case in point: The 425 had 3 different original bag designs - the one on its instruction manual shows that it would have come with the same bag design used on the 575 (and also the 725 in orange). It also came with 2 variations of a different design, some with the 'Silver Jubilee' lettering, some without - I think Stan Kann mentions writing to Hoover to obtain a Silver Jubilee bag for his 425 in the interview you did with him!


Post# 7788 , Reply# 15   1/8/2007 at 11:20 (6,289 days old) by charles~richard ()        
Yes, Stan did talk about writing for that bag

AND THEY SENT IT TO HIM!!!

Can you imagine writing Hoover today and asking for an original replacement bag for a machine that old, and actually GETTING it???! A Brand New one???!

I have often fancied that there are closets or nooks and crannies in the Hoover plant where stuff like boxes of old replacement bags were squirreled away and forgotten about ... Tom A., how thoroughly have you explored the place?!

I also used to fantasize the same thing about the Electrolux plant in Old Greenwich, Connecticut, now long gone of course -- a condo development in its place. One time I wrote a letter to the then-president of Electrolux, a Mr. MacMillan. Forget his first name now --- asking about stuff for old models and wondering if he had photos or brochures from the past.

He wrote back saying, first of all, something along the line of, why would you want all that old stuff -- "I'll be happy to send you the latest model [Silverado] wholesale, shipping included." (I declined at the time but now wish I had taken him up on it!)

He went on to say that they had just closed the Greenwich plant and that many of the people had been relocated to the New York office, and in the process most of the archives etc. had been thrown out.

Years later I met his son who had contacted me via the Internet - he had found my Electrolux site. We talked on the phone a couple of times and he confirmed what his father had said -- that they had thrown out literally dumpsters full of stuff, including artist renderings, and actual design prototypes and model studies. Oy how that makes me cringe!

Just very recently I have gotten another email from a man telling me his father is included in one of the photos on my site. This man also worked for Electrolux in the summer during the mid 1906s along with his father, and he has confirmed the same thing --- that a LOT of stuff just got tossed out.

MacMillan's son had said his father did have several boxes of stuff, including old isues of "Electrolux News" that he would send me, but I guess he never got around to it.

Oh the pain, the pain........



Post# 7790 , Reply# 16   1/8/2007 at 11:58 (6,289 days old) by ohio_tuec ()        

I know Charlie, and believe me, I share in your pain hearing stories like that. Unfortunately, 99.9% of the people who were working for Electrolux at that time did not share the same feelings for vintage vacs as you and I. To them, it's just a job. There's no reverance. I wrote to Kirby several years back, and got no response at all.
A few years back, I worked for Remington electric shavers. When they decided to close their retail division, everything that wasn't sold to liquidators got thrown out. I was working in a store that had LOTS of parts for Remingtons going back to the '70's. I took everything I could, with the hopes of someday opening my own shaver shop. My dream was deferred when I got the job at Oreck, but maybe someday....


Post# 7791 , Reply# 17   1/8/2007 at 12:14 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
See them clean!

As I promised, I found a few minutes (well, an hour or so!)this afternoon to do some filming with the digital camera I got for Christmas. So far I've done clips of my 543, 700, 425, 800 and 875 in action. More will follow - I would have done more today, but I ran out of space on my memory card! I've put them on Youtube because they're much too large to put on my site.

Follow the link below, you can find the other videos by clicking the 'More from this user' tab.





CLICK HERE TO GO TO vintagehoover's LINK


Post# 7804 , Reply# 18   1/8/2007 at 15:25 (6,289 days old) by charles~richard ()        
Oh, these are so great!!

Thanks very much for sharing them. I hope there is some way for Stan Kann to see them. Maybe the guy who does his ebay listings for him can show them to him. I know he'd love to see them.

Post# 7812 , Reply# 19   1/8/2007 at 16:44 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        
Thanks!

I'd be thrilled for Stan Kann to see these! I'll try and get as many of the other cleaners done as I can tomorrow, so there's a complete set.

Post# 7813 , Reply# 20   1/8/2007 at 16:45 (6,289 days old) by vacuumkid3 ()        

These are all of my dream vacuums to restore someday! I really want to make them all shine! Just like my Kirbys!

~~K~~


Post# 7818 , Reply# 21   1/8/2007 at 17:06 (6,289 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

My Model 800's probably the shiniest...all it needed was some polishing with metal cleaner to get that like-new sheen. I don't have any polishing machinery or anything, just some polish and a load of old rags, so if a cleaner's in bad condition it can take HOURS to get it looking good! Whoever it was who owned the 800 before me took excellent care of it! It did need a power cord and correct bag, though, and one of the fan blades was broken, so I replaced it with a complete one...it's probably the best condition machine in my collection, and I only paid £12.53 on eBay for it!

Post# 7829 , Reply# 22   1/8/2007 at 18:31 (6,288 days old) by myhooverco ()        

Charlie and Jack...

I agree with both of you in that the 900 and 925 are just beautiful machines. Both models were heavy duty and had a beefed up suspension (ball bearing wheels and a heavier duty height adjuster). They even had a rubber coated fan chamber originally to make them quieter. The 900 came with and without the headlight. Mine has the headlight option. The "curlycues" or wings were called "chevrons" by Hoover. These were also known as the "Gold Chevron" models. The 900 was part of the Hoover 25th anniversary line of cleaners and some bags make reference to that. The bag on the 925 could be original but I am not sure. I think it may be earlier than that. However, there could be differences in UK and US models.

The 825 photo shown does have the original bag on it. It also sports its original Hoover embossed plug!

The Hoover "vault" has many original items like you say. Even the Hoover Historical Center has many original long out of production parts on hand to restore incoming models as they are donated. Wouldn't it be nice to call up and ask for some original bags, brush rolls, or cords? One can only dream of what that must be like!

Stann told me in St. Louis that Hoover brought out the "Silver Jubilee" in the spring (April) of 1932 to celebrate their 25th anniversary. So they had an all new bag design for the 750 and the 900 too. These bags would be much more rare as they were not used for the full run of those models.

Jack...beautiful 800! It is one of the prettiest machines of the 1930's!

Thanks again for posting the photos!

--Tom


Post# 7832 , Reply# 23   1/8/2007 at 18:54 (6,288 days old) by charles~richard ()        
Well,

if anyone has, or gets, a redundant 925 that they'd like to see go to a good home, keep yer old buddy Charles Richard in mind! :)

Post# 7836 , Reply# 24   1/8/2007 at 20:13 (6,288 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Charles - what exactly happened to yours? I know you said you 'let it go' - what's the story behind this?

Post# 7848 , Reply# 25   1/9/2007 at 01:09 (6,288 days old) by charles~richard ()        
Okay, pull up a chair for the sad story...

Not quite two years ago the apartment building I live in - a quaint old 1937 fourplex in the Miracle Mile area of Los Angeles - was sold. The previous owners, who had owned the property for almost 50 years, died and left the property to their son who couldn't sell it fast enough.

In the process of the sale, we had to endure the extreme inconvenience and invasion of all these real estate people and potential buyers clomping through the place. We have lived here since early 1991. We had accumulated a lot of stuff, both my partner and I being borderline pack rats. And then there were all the vacuum cleaners.......

We had to endure many unkind and humiliating comments about the place, and especially of my vacuum cleaner collection. One potential buyer flat out asked, "So what are you going to do with all that crap when I buy this building and throw you out?" Even the realtor, with whom we actually became friendly and gave us much good advice, told me that if I had any idea at all of staying in this apartment, that all the stuff would have to go, including the vacuum cleaners.

Well, I just went into an emotional tailspin around this, as did my partner. And we had more than one heated argument that if I hadn't had "all those f@@@@@@ vacuums," we would not be in that predicament. (Never mind his box after box after box of old magazines etc. that lined the hallway.......)

So I got really scared and decided I would have to get rid of most of my vacuum cleaners as I had nowhere to put them. I decided to part with everything except my Electrolux and Kirby collection and a couple of other really special things, so I had a big "eviction sale." I guess I got rid of a dozen or so cleaners outright, and then a couple more machines went on eBay and I gave away a couple that no one wanted to buy. One of the casualties of that traumatic experience was my 925.

As it all turned out, the new owner could NOT have legally evicted us unless he intended to occupy the unit, but we found that out too late. Despite his threats, he could not have evicted us because our place was, as he put it, a "fire trap." It was not really THAT bad, as people who have been here will tell you.

Besides, the Los Angeles County Housing Authority has very strict rent control ordinances that crooked property owners are always trying to subvert, usually without luck as the Housing Authority is definitely on the side of tenants and goes to great extremes to enforce the rent control provisions.

But back to our place--

Yes, there's a lot of stuff. It's a fairly small 2-bedroom apartment filled with books, music, a large collection of LP records (anyone remember those things? They used to be used for playing real music and not just "scratching" by hip-hop DJs, sigh), musical instruments and electronic equipment ... and vacuum cleaners. But it was not a fire trap, by any stretch of the imagination. It was just well filled.

This was all going on while our dear sweet 16-year-old dog Oz was failing in health and we had to have him put to sleep. As if the horrific stress we were already under wasn't enough.

I think the worst moment was when a group of potential buyers were being herded about by the realtor. When they came back in my office where my collection is displayed, I overheard one of them gasp and say, "My Good. This looks like a set out of 'Silence or the Lambs.'"

Turned out the guy who made that crack was the agent of the eventual buyer. Well, I got my revenge on him, but good.

Most of you have seen the old lady character I often play on Halloween -- whom I have dubbed Dorothy Chandler Pavillion -- her face is made of foam latex [a complex theatrical makeup technique - another of my arcane interests!], and I store the face along with the wig, hat, purse and costume on a wig and dress form and she is hanging from the rafters in the garage.

Well, one day the buyer's agent came by to look at some of the work that was being done. I suddenly got a sly idea, recalling the "Silence of the Lambs" remark he had made. I told him there was something in the garage I wanted to show him.

We went out there and before I opened the garage door I stood outside of it and called out toward the door, "Mother...? Oh Mother? Are you awake?"

The agent got a VERY strange expression on his face!

I said, "There's a man here who wants to meet you."

The color drained out of the agent's face and he looked VERY VERY uncomfortable.

I called again, "Mother, are you decent? [pause] Well now, come on, get up -- you need to meet this man."

He very nervously stepped back a couple of feet, wildly looking around for some excuse to get the heck out of there, when I called out again, "Okay, I'm going to open the door now. Watch out!"

I swung the door open. At first the agent couldn't see anything inside because it was around dusk and kinda dark in the garage. He looked at with a BIG question mark on his face.

I said, "Go on in and meet mother."

He very tentatively stepped toward the door, still looking looking back at me with a VERY concerned look on his face. (Don't forget, he knew nothing about me except for the fact that I had this crazy place full of strange objects and ancient vacuum cleaners!)

I pointed up to the rafters where "Mother" was hanging from a large nail. His wide eyes followed the point of my finger upward.

His hair literally stood on end (yes, it really does happen!!), he let out a loud yelp, and stumbled backwards out of the garage.

I just stood there laughing my ASS off at him. He finally got his wits about him and realized that "Mother" was just a dummy.

I said, with a very smug expression, "THAT was for the crack about our place looking like 'Silence of the Lambs.'"

He turned VERY red, mumbled something, and then slunk away.

Eventually we actually got on fairly good terms, considering the fact that he was a crook and a slime ball, as was the new owner. The building has, amazingly enough, been sold again; and indeed may be on the market yet again. (This is called "flip-flopping" in real estate lingo - a property repeatedly being sold in a short period of time, with each buyer being able to get a huge tax credit from the "profit loss.")

I say this because just Friday riday morning I was out front with the doggies and two ladies in a BMW pulled up to the curb just by the driveway north of us. The lady on the driver's side rolled her window down and started snapping photos of the building. She took several photos from different angles as the driver drove very slowly by. The lady taking pictures was totally ignoring me, as if I wasn't even there.

When the car got right in front of me I sweetly asked, "May I help you?"

The lady just gave me a vapid, icy smile; and, without a word, rolled her window back up again and they took off with a roar as if Satan himself was after them.

I can't imagine any other reason for mysterious strangers in fancy cars stopping to take photos of our building unless it is on the market, or will soon be on the market. Again.

-ooOoo-

So after all the dust settled last June, it turned out that I would not have had to get rid of a single vacuum cleaner, but I did not know that at the time when the "Schmidt" hit the fan.

"And now," as Paul Harvey says, "You know the rrrrest of the story."




Post# 7849 , Reply# 26   1/9/2007 at 01:09 (6,288 days old) by charles~richard ()        
''Mother''

in all her radiant glory!


Post# 7856 , Reply# 27   1/9/2007 at 07:41 (6,288 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

That's so funny! Terrible that you lost all those vacuums needlessly, but what a way to get revenge!

I too lost pretty much my entire collection before - my parents decided they wanted the attic, where I kept all the cleaners, cleared, because they were considering a loft conversion. I had actually 'gone off' vacuums for a while at that point, and had not actively collected them in quite a while, so I agreed to get rid of a large number, keeping only a few vintage ones. At the time all this was happenening, we were having some significant building work done on other parts of the house, and there was a skip for all the rubble on the driveway...

In my defence, this was when I was quite a bit younger, maybe...14 or 15, and at that point I'd never even heard of eBay - my entire collection of around 40 cleaners was made up of mainly modern-ish cleaners people had given me when they bought new ones. And of course, back then I was still under the impression I was the only person in the world who collected vacuums, so I didn't know of any fellow collectors to donate them to. Almost all of the machines were in nice condition, and in good working order...some even had boxed sets of tools...but they all got chucked into the skip.

Thankfully I had the presence of mind to hold onto the vintage cleaners, and none of the 30 or so 1970's-90's machines which got dumped were especially rare or valuable - I kept back my Hoover Convertible (DAM), despite my mum saying 'I hope you're getting rid of that ugly thing...', and of course this was a good move, since I was later to find out how rare they are over here!

After that, I forgot all about vacuums for a few years, until I decided to use them in an art project I was doing at college. I started searching for pictures of Hoover machines on google images, found a link to a Model 262 on eBay, bid for and won it, and since then I haven't looked back!

What makes the dumping of all those cleaners even more tragic is that my parents never did do anything with the attic in the end, all that waste was for nothing! As for my revenge? Well, the attic is once again filled with cleaners, mainly the 1950's-onwards machines (the pre-war and 1940's machines make up the display in my bedroom!). And none of them will ever again face being dumped!


Post# 7984 , Reply# 28   1/10/2007 at 19:13 (6,286 days old) by charles~richard ()        
U.K. Hoover Juniors

How come the beautiful little Hoover Juniors were never sold in the U.S.? I mean specifically the earliest ones, the 370 and 375.

I particularly love the late version of the 375, the one without the black design element on the front -- and would love to have one of these. It's such a cool-looking machine! Finding one over here seems pretty unlikely.



Post# 7987 , Reply# 29   1/10/2007 at 20:04 (6,286 days old) by vacuumkid3 ()        

Charlie, that was a GREAT comeback for that dufus!! THAT WAS HILARIOUS!! Well, anyway. I am also sorry to hear that most of your vacuums were lost...I hope that doesn't happen to me...

~~K~~

P.S. My mom says "You can't have any more vacuums!" What should I do?!?! I really want to keep collecting! I think they think it is a space issue. Is it safe to keep it in an attic where it can reach 0 degrees in the winter and 100 degrees in the summer?

~~K~~


Post# 7989 , Reply# 30   1/10/2007 at 20:27 (6,286 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

I believe that the Juniors weren't sold in the US because they weren't really suited to the much larger American houses - even over here, it takes ages to do a room with one because they're so small! In the US, the Standard and Popular-Priced machines were much more popular, and I suppose it was decided there just wasn't a big-enough market niche for the Juniors. Pretty sure they did sell them in Canada, though...

375's still show up here in HUGE numbers (Hoover were selling re-coloured, factory-reconditioned machines in the 70's!), and 370's do show up on eBay from time to time, you might be able to find a seller willing to ship internationally, although shipping price would of course be considerable!


Post# 7995 , Reply# 31   1/10/2007 at 21:02 (6,286 days old) by swingette ()        

Compromise. Keep only cleaners that are in top shape, or get rid of a less favored cleaner when you MUST have another. do you have more cleaners than fit in your room? are some of your cleaners in poor shape/non-functioning? if you answered yes, its time to think of a solution. it not unreasonable of your parents to keep your collection from spilling over into the rest of their house.

Post# 7999 , Reply# 32   1/10/2007 at 21:10 (6,286 days old) by convertible68 ()        

Jack, great pictures, the difference is incredible! I LOVE the styling of that Model 900!

Post# 8025 , Reply# 33   1/11/2007 at 07:21 (6,286 days old) by vacuumkid3 ()        

All of my vacuums are in tip-top shape. I have a few in my playroom, and 2 in my room. If the attic is an option, then that is where I will go. Also, in the basement, there is a room in which I might be able to put them. Oh, well!

~~K~~



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