Thread Number: 6636
DDM Press Launch: The Videos 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 73432   6/27/2009 at 18:28 (5,414 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Ok, I've managed to pick out all the most interesting and relevant sections of Sir James' presentation from Thursday morning. Because of YouTube's 10min clip length limit, I've created two videos: one for the DDM, and one for the unveiling of the DC30/DC31.

Hope you enjoy them!





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Post# 73500 , Reply# 1   6/28/2009 at 12:43 (5,413 days old) by ibaisaic ()        

Blimey Jack, how you managed to stay awake is incredible.
Mr Dyson may have shaken up the vacuum cleaner industry, but he has absolutely no charisma.

I hate the way that he and his company seem to rubbish existing technology, ie cleaners with four wheels, carbon producing motors, yet still produce products using this so called inferior technology.

Does this digital motor talk to your phone? I was looking at a catalogue from 2005 for a DC11 with digital motor. I don't think this was ever launched was it?

Post# 73501 , Reply# 2   6/28/2009 at 12:44 (5,413 days old) by ibaisaic ()        

DC11 with digital motor from 2005 catalogue

Post# 73504 , Reply# 3   6/28/2009 at 12:57 (5,413 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
I remember those adverts!

 And no - they were never launched. Either the catalogues jumped the gun, or Dyson witheld those models.

I was actually wondering whether Dyson could use the new tiny Version 2 Digtal Motor, in full size machines. Maybe gang them up, so that two or three of the new motors operate in parallel, generating more suction power. The small diameter of the individual fans would surely be far more stable, producing less vibration than one single large fan.

Post# 73512 , Reply# 4   6/28/2009 at 13:06 (5,413 days old) by tristar ()        
DDM Power

 Well ganged motors would certainly be somewhat revolutionary for a small portable canister, but you've gotta remember......the DDM pulls the same amount of power as the traditional motor in the corded machines they've released thus-far. Here in the US, the normal machines are rated at 12 amps and the new DDM machines are also rated at 12 amps.........so where are they getting that they're more "energy efficient"?

The DDM is really a sales machine. The technology has existed for decades and it's actually used in many industrial machines. In fact, the hard disk in your computer uses a ferrite rotor, switched-reluctance motor to spin the platters at 5400 or 7200 RPM. Dyson simply made the rotor with a neodymium magnet and ramped the speed up into the 6 digit range. I, for one, am still waiting to see the reliability of the bearings and the electronic control board. In the pictures I've seen from the launch, there's several large electrolytic capacitors on that board......they're notorious for failing prematurely in phase-controlled or PWM applications. While I certainly like my DC17 upright, I'm holding back with the jury to see the reliability of the DDM in actual practice. One has to wonder what kind of bearings they're using......I haven't seen any mention of that technology anywhere! They better be something special to support a 104K RPM rotor and expect some sort of longevity!

Post# 73515 , Reply# 5   6/28/2009 at 13:18 (5,413 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Energy efficient DDM

 I think that relates to the advances made in the Mark II version of the motor, as fitted to the handheld DC 30 and 31.

Japan's DC12, US DC22 and the 'Airblade' hand drier all use the older Mark I motor.

Post# 73518 , Reply# 6   6/28/2009 at 13:23 (5,413 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        

"Dyson machines with a Dyson digital motor
The Dyson Airblade™ hand dryer uses the V1 Dyson digital motor to generate 400mph sheets of air and scrape water from hands in 10 seconds. The same motor also powers our DC12 and DC22 cylinders in Japan and the USA.

The V2 Dyson digital motor is used in new Dyson handheld machines. It’s 1/3 lighter and 80% more power-efficient than its predecessor – making the handhelds lighter yet more powerful."



CLICK HERE TO GO TO rolls_rapide's LINK
Post# 73522 , Reply# 7   6/28/2009 at 13:36 (5,413 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Eric - the DDM has been used successfully in the DC12 in Japan since 2004, and in the Airblade hand-driers worldwide since 2006. The failure rate has been, to quote Sir James, 'very low'. And they're now confident enough in its abilities to introduce it to Dyson's flagship markets, the UK and the US.

As the catalogue pages above demonstrates, they've been on the verge of launching it more widely several times in the past, but have held back, to allow for further research and testing. They didn't want to rush things, and hype it up before they were absolutely ready.

The fact that it's finally here surely shows that they're entirely prepared to risk their reputation on it's capabilities.

To address another point, here's what their DDM V2 press release says about the 'energy efficient' claim:

'Conventional motors rely on carbon brushes which spark, wear down and emit carbon dust. This means they can waste up to 50% of energy in converting electricity into air power. Using only 200W, DDM V2 is twice as efficient as its predecessor, and its design prevents the release of carbon particles into the air.'

WRT to bearings, the 2003 press release for the X020, the codename for their original digital motor, says the following:

'To reach such high tolerances Dyson engineers have worked jointly with a bearing manufacturer to develop an exclusive ball bearing for high-speed applications similar to those used in precision measuring equipment and guidance systems.'

Below is a scan I've posted here at least twice before - was this another occasion when they 'nearly' launched the DDM in the UK? The cleaners shown below this graphics bar were the DC08T range.

Post# 73527 , Reply# 8   6/28/2009 at 13:54 (5,413 days old) by tristar ()        
Some mighty tall claims...

 Dyson is a master at marketing mainly because they don't ever give the science behind their claims. Where do they get the idea that conventional motors are only 50% efficient? Even the most horrendous, cheapest induction motors (which are FAR more inefficient than series-wound motors) are at a minimum, 70% efficient with most if not all motors built in the last decade being 80-85% efficient bare-minimum. Carbon-brushed motors are 85-90% efficient at converting electricity into mechanical energy.... That's a scientific FACT. You can't twist facts like that! I think what Dyson is getting at is the design of the turbine more than the motor itself. With the DDM you not only have heating loss in the windings of the stator, but you've also got heating and switching losses in the electronic circuitry. You don't get something for nothing.....

Regarding "spark" on carbon brushes... that happens when the brush moves from one segment to another. The spark itself is caused by a very sudden an intense EMF inrush as the brush closes in on what is essentially a dead short as it energizes the next series of windings. The DDM does the very same thing, but the spark is arrested in that giant capacitor. Believe it or not, if you were to put a condenser across the carbon brushes in a conventional motor, you'd get little if any spark at all. Remember the "Radio suppression" circuit in 50's electroluxes? that's what it was for. In a properly working condition, there would be a miniscule spark if there was one at all!

Regarding the DC12+ and the Airblade.....those are two examples of "limited production" machines that aren't being abused by idiots! The Japanese have a higher respect for technology than us here in the West. Have you SEEN some of the abuse vacuums get? The Jury is still out on the reliability. I'd be interested to see how those precision bearings hold up after some moronic white-trash housewife drags the canister thumping down the stairs... It doesn't take much to create disaster at 104K RPM!

Dyson is a marketing GENIUS! I will give them that! Not to mention they have the only bagless vacuum on the market that actually works WELL. That said, I sometimes question the validity of their claims and wonder why competitors don't ever call them out on it! It wouldn't take much to make Dyson look like a total fool with some of the claims they've come out with in the near past. It makes you wonder why some companies like TTI don't ever say anything about it, but instead spend all their time trying to copy it...

Post# 73531 , Reply# 9   6/28/2009 at 14:15 (5,413 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Just out of interest, Eric, have you ever tried putting your queries to Dyson?

Post# 73533 , Reply# 10   6/28/2009 at 14:20 (5,413 days old) by tristar ()        
Queries to Dyson

 I haven't. Maybe I should! I wonder if I'd just get a redirect to a product page, or if I'd actually get an intelligent response! God knows their instruction books leave a lot to be desired.....

Post# 73534 , Reply# 11   6/28/2009 at 14:27 (5,413 days old) by vintagehoover ()        

Try calling their customer helpline. I don't know how it's set up by Dyson in the US, but if your experience is anything like mine, they'll refer you to the correct person in the correct department to answer your questions.

Post# 73535 , Reply# 12   6/28/2009 at 14:48 (5,413 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        
Also...

 I think Dyson's call centre operators actually take notice of customers' comments and pass them back to the designers.

Post# 73536 , Reply# 13   6/28/2009 at 15:07 (5,413 days old) by lux1521 ()        

Just out of curiosity, what is the fan diameter on this thing? I didn't bother to do the math, yet, but it seems that if you had a standard diameter fan at 104k RPM, the outer parts of the blade would go supersonic and potentially cause disturbances in air flow, assuming that my knowledge of aerodynamics is correct. I recall hearing something about this type of problem with high performance propeller aircraft. I'd also imagine you might have durability issues with standard fan material at such speeds.

Secondly, any ideas about noise output or pitch.

Post# 73537 , Reply# 14   6/28/2009 at 15:45 (5,413 days old) by tristar ()        

lux1521...

Check out thread 6623 for an actual picture and description of the DDM rotor. I too have wondered about the structural balance of the rotor on these things. Even with the small size of the turbine. I'm assuming the funky shape of the vanes is supposed to help reduce the turbulance.

Post# 73540 , Reply# 15   6/28/2009 at 15:59 (5,413 days old) by lux1521 ()        

It looks like a blisk (aerospace term - bladed disk). I looked over some at a college job fair when an turbine manufacturer happened to be there and had examples of their products. I'd say overkill for a vacuum, but thats just me.

Post# 73549 , Reply# 16   6/28/2009 at 16:30 (5,413 days old) by rolls_rapide (-)        

The impeller is apparently made out of PEEK plastic; a strong, stable, plastic composite material.

They had to consult aerodynamic experts to create a design that withstood the strong centrifugal forces imposed by the ultrafast spinning motor. An ordinary aluminium fan disc would be torn apart by the stress.

Also, the design of the blades reflect the effort of trying to reduce turbulence and sonic scream, which is bad enough with a conventional fan.


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