Thread Number: 36530
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
To Canister or not to Canister? |
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Post# 391281   4/29/2018 at 18:14 (2,160 days old) by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)   |   | |
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That is the question!
Wondering what you all think is the best format for a vacuum (as a pure theory of vacuuming, not debating differences in agitation or exact air flow or water lift measurements) to be most effective and most versatile. The answer that comes to me right away, is the Canister.
Is the Upright only best in wall to wall carpet situations?.. and even then, wouldn't using a Canister with a Power Floor Nozzle always provide a better result in apples to apples situations?
My thought is that the amount of suction created by a Canister is always more effective for any task because I think when a company designs a Canister, they design it considering the need for a more powerful motor to compensate for it's longer distance deterioration of air speed and strength (assuming the loss of suction strength through even a good hose using any attachment including a floor nozzle) compared to the upright version (perhaps of the same cleaner in the same qualitative category and by the same company, for this thesis) that has a shorter distance for the dust and debris to travel from an Upright Nozzle to it's dust bin.
I'm not an Upright basher, but I think they were created as a convenience to the user, but not to improve or even maintain cleaning performance. Actually, now on second thought, I remember watching the "History of the Vacuum" short film attached below remember them mentioning that the Upright was invented first.
So, therefore, was the Canister invented concurrently somewhere else in the world, or was it invented later as an improved way to get the best vacuuming results possible?
I guess I need some education! CLICK HERE TO GO TO completenutt's LINK
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This post was last edited 04/29/2018 at 18:51 |
Post# 391285 , Reply# 1   4/29/2018 at 18:57 (2,160 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)   |   | |
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Uprights were invented for floor cleaning. Hoses and above floor cleaning tools were added later, as was the revolving brush. Canisters were always designed for using with a hose and tools, this included floor cleaning. Brushrolls were added much later.
It really depends on a persons preference whether they like an upright or canister. I'm not sure why uprights outnumber canisters in most big-box retail stores, but it would seem to me that's what people want these days. They don't have the time or desire to bother with vacuuming everything, so a vacuum often seems to be for floor cleaning only. Personally, I prefer a canister if I'm going to do a thorough cleaning. Uprights and canisters each have their own disadvantages. To me, an upright is annoying to do above floor cleaning with, because in many cases the suction is so strong with the expanding hose, it pulls the whole thing over on me. Plus moving an upright around the room is not as easy as just tugging the hose. For floor cleaning an upright is simpler as there is not a hose and canister sitting on the floor, but it is harder to manuever around or under items. For canisters the disadvantage can be the unit is on the floor and possibly geting in the way. A canister is much easier to manuever as far as cleaning around and under things because the weight and majority of the machine is behind you. Canisters and clean-air uprights are basically designed on the same premise. A fan sucks the air through a bag or filters which then sucks air through a hose. |
Post# 391286 , Reply# 2   4/29/2018 at 19:04 (2,160 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)   |   | |
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My philosophy has always been: uprights are best for cleaning carpeting, canisters are best for everything else. And “never the train shall meet”. The combination vacuums that try to do both are either too heavy, too bulky, too complicated and therefore too prone to problems that need repair.
I prefer to have one of each: a tool-less upright, and a suction-only canister. My clean-team of choice: a Hoover Bagged Platinum Lightweight, and a Miele C3 canister. |
Post# 391287 , Reply# 3   4/29/2018 at 19:16 (2,160 days old) by blackheart (North Dakota)   |   | |
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When it comes to the cleaning of carpeting Direct air machines like Kirby, Sanitaire (bag on the back style) and royal, or tandem air machines do hold an edge over canisters. They have much higher flow at the nozzle and typically have much better agitation.
The advantages of a canister are as follows, Less weight in your hand, typically more airflow at the hose end, most uprights use stretch hoses and as they are stretched the corrugated pattern creates more resistance resulting in a loss of flow this means that attachment cleaning will typically be more effective on a canister, bare floor cleaning on them is typically better due to their included bare floor tools. Some power nozzles (namely Wessel werk and the tandem air tacony nozzles) do perform very well on bare floors due to a squeegee placed behind the brushroll chamber. For comparison The highest nozzle cfm i've seen from a canister was 77.07. It's suction was 90" at the machine. From the "Black" Model Filter queen Filter Queens lose airflow rather rapidly in my experiences though. The highest Nozzle CFM i've seen in an Upright was 141.27 CFM coming from a 6.5 amp bag on the back Eureka. It's suction was 30" at the nozzle The motor on the filter queen definitely produces higher suction 90" vs 30" and uses more electricity but this doesn't mean it cleans carpeting better. |
Post# 391291 , Reply# 4   4/29/2018 at 20:49 (2,160 days old) by sleepdoc (St. Louis, MO)   |   | |
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...eliminates the possibility of comparing vacuums according to their attributes.
"...pure theory of vacuuming (sic), not debating differences in agitation or exact air flow or water lift measurements...," doesn't leave anything left to compare except the design of brush rolls and attachments. And, those, or other aspects that might occur, aren't a canister vs. upright comparison. "...most effective and most versatile" aren't a single item that reflect each other. They might, but they certainly don't necessarily. These, too, aren't canister vs. upright comparisons. Canisters can be very versatile, but so can uprights. "Apples to apples situations" really don't exist, and, if they do, that circumstance can be established only by measuring the items you precluded in your first set of conditions. The fact is that you can establish versatility empirically, but effectiveness is a set of measurements. (When VacLab see this and gets hold of it, he might have a few things to say if he can negotiate constraints of your question.) Ultimately, you probably can't have both at the same time under most circumstances, which mean you have to set your own priorities or have multiple vacuums. Most people on this site, like me, have multiple vacuums that we select to use for different tasks. (I have far more than what I need for that, but that's for fun because I'm a vacuum geek/collector.) I have Mieles that I love for almost everything; they're almost infinitely versatile for domestic vacuuming. I have Rainbows, which are more versatile and effective in a few ways, less versatile and effective in others. I have Kirbys that are less versatile (at least conveniently) that others but more effective than anything that exists, as far as I know, at cleaning carpets. I have a TOL Riccar Tandem-Air upright, TOL full-size canister, and a Riccar central vacuum that is one model down from the TOL, and they're all extremely effective and versatile. The Riccars and Mieles are so good that the canisters vs. uprights in the TOL range are hard to compare empirically. (BTW, I rely heavily on VacLab's tests, and he hasn't tested every vacuum I own; I'm not about to make requests of him because he donates his time to the the vacuum collector community to a tremendous degree already.) As far as which came first, that's not such an easy question, either. I think if we limit our consideration to machines that made it into mainstream distribution, uprights came first but not by much, and I wouldn't vouch for their effectiveness or versatility knowing what we know now (which isn't fair to the innovators of those days, obviously). I linked to Google's page on "The Vacuum Cleaner: A History", which is available on iBooks and will impart more knowledge about vacuum cleaner innovation than you may have known existed. It's very technical in some sections, but I learned a lot from it and have been collecting vacuums since I was a toddler. CLICK HERE TO GO TO sleepdoc's LINK |
Post# 391314 , Reply# 6   4/30/2018 at 01:28 (2,160 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Take a ballroom, long hallway, or a simply particularly wide room and try to vacuum wall-to-wall with a canister vacuum. Dragging the canister fifteen or twenty paces forward may be only slightly less convenient than doing the same path with an upright, but when you then want to pull the nozzle back over the same twenty paces...have fun with that.
I mean no disrespect towards canister vacuums or those who like them; I am simply describing why an upright vacuum is the ideal choice for large areas of carpet My living room is quite large and in some sections I make long, sweeping forward-and-backward passes. If I did this with a canister, I'd be dragging it all over the place. If you can stay within the radius of the hose of a canister and do most of your cleaning without dragging the unit, then a canister would be perfect. Otherwise, an upright is your best bet. Just my humble opinion. |
Post# 391323 , Reply# 7   4/30/2018 at 09:44 (2,159 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)   |   | |
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Is a combination of both types of sweepers. An upright for carpets and rugs and a canister for everything else.
In my experience the best uprights for carpets and rugs are Direct Air machines like the Kirby G series and Royal metal uprights. No other upright will deep clean your carpets better than either of these two machines. Remember: It's not Suction that cleans carpets, It's Airflow and Agitation that deep cleans the best and a canister with a powered floor nozzle just doesn't cut it when it comes to deep cleaning dirt and sand embedded deep in your carpets.
As far as above the floor cleaning goes, just about any canister that has good suction and good tools will do just fine.
My personal combo that I use in my home is the small lightweight but powerful Eureka Mighty Mite canister that also works in Blower mode. For my carpeted rooms I use either my Heritage II Legend or my Kirby Sentria. The Sentria also doubles as a very effective carpet Shampoo system that I use 2 or 3 times a year.
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Post# 391325 , Reply# 9   4/30/2018 at 11:36 (2,159 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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I prefer to have a home with mostly carpets than to have a home with mostly barefloors. However though, I wouldn't use a canister for either one. If I want something to clean everywhere else besides carpets, I would go for a central vacuum. Depending on which model, I find most of them to be easier, quieter, and more powerful than most canisters.
Of course I prefer uprights over canisters. Since my favorite vacuum company is Panasonic, one of the things that I like about most Panasonics and it's not just only Panasonic but also with Sharp, Sanyo, Riccar or Simplicity, Bernina or Cirrus, and Royal is that I can put an extension hose through the inlet valve and clean everywhere else that most uprights have a hard time getting. Kinda feels like using a central vacuum almost. In fact, most of these extension hoses are even longer than most hoses on canisters.
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Post# 391346 , Reply# 12   4/30/2018 at 18:34 (2,159 days old) by jp10558 (Southern Tier, NY, USA)   |   | |
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One thing I find interesting from this thread is the very different view of Kirby here vs on reddits vacuum subreddit. |
Post# 391360 , Reply# 14   5/1/2018 at 00:56 (2,159 days old) by compactc9guy (Bathurst NB)   |   | |
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If all you have is carpet get an upright .
But im a cansiter person my Compact C9 whit new hose and rebuild power head cleans so well on rugs and floor.I prefer a canister more versatile and can clean most anything whit one machine .Most upright lack in air flow and suction at the hose thats why i prefer canister vacuum like Electrolux Compact Filter Queen heavier yes but has tons of power to deep clean. Also whit my sore back i find a canister whit a long hose to reach almost anwere. |
Post# 391492 , Reply# 18   5/3/2018 at 14:08 (2,156 days old) by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)   |   | |
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@Kevin. Your comparison to motor oil type choice in a car is not accurate. A better analogy would be what one prefers to drive, a car or truck. Trucks can haul more and stay on the road better while cars can get under low overpasses and into smaller parking spaces. Clearly, there's a need for both! It would have nothing to do with the grade of the motor oil.. that's ridiculous. They also handle completely differently..weight, balance, torque, cornering, etc. It depends on what is most useful at the time, and with what one feels comfortable and familiar. And please don't continue to try to minimize my questions, that's all they are... nothing to be intimidated by. I'm happy to debate, but not with someone who needs to be right by belittling others thoughts. You can add to a conversation, but not at my expense. Thanks!
@ everyone else. I really enjoyed and learned from all your opinions and am currently reading Patrick's recommendation of the book "The Vacuum Cleaner: A History". It's fantastic. Loving the journey! Especially how even cave men/women must have swept their caves of dust and debris, then on to brooms, etc...so interesting to correlate that beginning of housekeeping to today's world where we still faithfully perform that same task by using our current iteration of that same tool.. The Vacuum Cleaner. So cool! As you can see by the attached YouTube, enthusiasm starts with innocence.. let's keep it that way! CLICK HERE TO GO TO completenutt's LINK This post was last edited 05/03/2018 at 15:15 |
Post# 391502 , Reply# 20   5/3/2018 at 20:12 (2,156 days old) by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)   |   | |
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Post# 391680 , Reply# 21   5/8/2018 at 12:00 (2,151 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )   |   | |
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I would say most upright vacuums cost less to manufacture their for Less to the consumer this is the reason for their popularity in the United States.
In practicality of use canister vacuums with a powerhead are the best solution for portable vacuums. Generally speaking canister vacuums or more maneuverable lighter weight not having to hold the suction motor allows manufactured put the ideal suction motor in the vacuum. Of course why not eliminate those push behind and dragged around tragedies all together? #CentralVacuumpropaganda |
Post# 392245 , Reply# 22   5/23/2018 at 10:37 (2,136 days old) by sleepdoc (St. Louis, MO)   |   | |
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Post# 392653 , Reply# 23   6/1/2018 at 18:13 (2,127 days old) by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)   |   | |
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Hi Patrick,
Thanks for checking in! Sorry for the delayed response.. I literally just noticed you left it when I was checking My Posts. No, I haven't finished yet. I actually try to understand it all, but some of his writing is, as you say, super technical and actually has the same effect on me as your routine medical products, lol. I'm only about half way through so far. Hope all is well on your end! Are you going to the VCCC? Bill P.S. I put in a bid on my first Vintage vacuum purchase. It was brought up in a thread on VL earlier and I couldn't stop thinking about it. Check it out! CLICK HERE TO GO TO completenutt's LINK on eBay |