Thread Number: 36452  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Miele Blizzard CX1
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Post# 390608   4/17/2018 at 13:13 by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)        

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Hello everyone!

Just bought an Electrolux UltraFlex EL4335B primarily because of it's unique, first time I'd seen this layout, cyclone chamber separated from the dust collection bin.

I was taken my surprise when I randomly came across the new Miele CX1, which uses the same technology.

As you all know, vacuums from several other brands are rated in air watts(AW), which gives a apples to apples startpoint at least. I was disappointed when Miele didn't provided one on-line for this vacuum, and no one in several departments there on the customer sales/service call center even knew what that reference measurement existed and certainly couldn't find it on their database.

Why do you all think that Miele doesn't use that AW as a selling tool as other brands do? I have noticed that Hoover does not use AW either on their specification sheets. But Dyson and Electrolux do.

My only point really is that an intelligent shopper who might buy a higher end machine would probably do market research to gather different factors and ratings in order to make their best decision, but can't in a case where manufacturers don't use standard reference points like AW.





Post# 390612 , Reply# 1   4/17/2018 at 13:38 by Crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)        

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If I were you, I would enjoy Meile while it lasts! They are slowly but surely inching towards Walmart plasticrap vacuums. They have added so many circuit boards to their vacuums and soon they are set to release a bag less canister!

Post# 390615 , Reply# 2   4/17/2018 at 14:37 by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)        

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I have stripped down a Miele S5 and the latest C3. There isn't any increase in circuit boards.
They are still built very well maybe not quite as well as years ago but they will certainly last 10 to 15 years.Far from plastic crap 😁


Post# 390618 , Reply# 3   4/17/2018 at 15:39 by sleepdoc (St. Louis, MO)        
Miele quality

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I've had somewhere around 20 Mieles in my collection at various times, currently have maybe 10, the oldest of which is a 1200-watt Blue Moon from 2006. I've never had a single component failure on any Miele. I've also never known a Miele to not perform as close to perfectly as any machine can function. I can't say the same about most vacuum brands. I don't like some changes Miele has made to its vacuums, but to say that they're on a trajectory to short-lived disposables isn't warranted by my own experience with them. I am going to order a Blizzard and use it with a skeptical outlook that should accompany evaluating any bagless vacuum that claims to have devised an effective mechanism to separate dust from the airstream without blowing it out of the vacuum's, contaminating the motor, or compromising airflow, but hopefully Miele designed this wisely.

PS: I want to correct myself: Miele's Scout robot doesn't measure up. I have one, and it works all right, but it's not wonderful. I think launching that wasn't a wise decision. There's now a second-generation robot, which I haven't seen yet, and hopefully Miele has made amends for its mediocre first attempt. (I know Miele didn't manufacture the first model, but they put their name on it, so they're accountable for its lackluster performance.)


Post# 390661 , Reply# 4   4/18/2018 at 12:13 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

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@Crazykirbydude Miele has been using circuit boards for over 30 years they rarely fail and I would say they are one of the most reliable components in the vacuum cleaner it self. It simplifies and removes the mechanical bits that can fail especially when you look at older Electroluxs is that had his complex vacuum lines and multiple electrical switches.

As for the Miele cx1 it is a Bagless machine kind of behind the times I believe me love purposely made it this way in order to sell more bagged machines.



Post# 390665 , Reply# 5   4/18/2018 at 13:33 by dysonman1 (undisclosed)        

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The problem with the bagless Miele is that it has to be sold to someone. It would be a very rare customer indeed who walks in and says "I want to buy one". When you 'sell' a customer a machine, it "should" be one that you own and use as your only vacuum. Otherwise you are doing a disservice to the customer. When the filter is clogged, it's YOU they will complain to "You sold me this junk". How much are new primary filters? Probably (if I know Miele) more than $50.

I'm quite 'old school' when it comes to bagless. Love the world's first bagless portable vacuum - the Rexair Rainbow - and always will. However, they are not for everyone. The only other bagless design I like is the old Dyson DC18, which was made only for the USA.

Other than those two, and my Vacuflo central vacuum (not a portable machine), I like bagged cleaners. My new old stock Royal Power Tank has a Micro Fresh bag I just throw away. So does my Electrolux and Air-Way cleaners. Tri-Star and Compact, with their open-topped bags I don't like as much. While I love a self sealing bag, I hate the very high cost of genuine Miele bags. Thank goodness the bojack hepa Miele bags work just as well in my Genimi model that's going to celebrate its ten year birthday soon - and still spotless inside. Only ever had one genuine Miele bag in it. All the rest were bojack.


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Post# 390708 , Reply# 6   4/19/2018 at 09:11 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland)        
Cost of bags from some manufacturers...

That irritates me too! I think it is just plain greed.

The likes of Miele would be better knocking a few Pounds off the cost of the consumables. After all, they only enclose 4 bags for £12. They end up pushing folk towards 'pattern spares' from the internet.

Miele might actually get more customers if they just reined in their exorbitant prices. Maybe they think everyone lives in a mansion in Berkshire, with a salary to match?

I was following the other thread on here, about Maytag 'Satellite'/Hoover 'Constellation'. Apparently in the UK, Maytag 'Satellite' bags were supplied in packets of two. What the hell is that all about?! It's no wonder folk 'go bagless'!

Overall, I think Sebo in the UK has a reasonable trade-off of price to quantity, regarding bags... a box of 8 bags for about 13 quid.


Post# 390728 , Reply# 7   4/19/2018 at 15:16 by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)        
Air Watts not industry standard?

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I talked with a very knowledgeable guy from Miele by phone who said they don't use the AW rating as is can be "cheated" on in tests performed not under standard uniform conditions and therefore other company's can fudge that rating to impress buyers, so they avoid that comparison.

I learned the difference between water lift and airflow, and get that, but still wonder then how one uniformly judges comprehensive strength and performance of vacuums?

Is it amps, or watts... pardon the novice question.. I just need some help understanding it all.

Thanks!


Post# 390729 , Reply# 8   4/19/2018 at 15:34 by blackheart (North Dakota)        
Wattage/Amperage

The consumption of electricity doesn't make a better vacuum. The biggest factors in cleaning carpet are Airflow and agitation. I have not yet had the chance to see a Blizzard in person but I have a feeling i'm not going to like it. It will most likely be weaker than Miele's bagged canisters, I really see no reason for it.

Post# 390734 , Reply# 9   4/19/2018 at 17:27 by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 390742 , Reply# 10   4/19/2018 at 19:47 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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I much prefer spending $20 per year on Miele bags over burning up valuable time cleaning and maintaining the bin and filters of a bagless vacuum.

If my time is worth at least $20 per hour in the work world, then I would definitely lose an hour of my valuable time every month emptying and cleaning plastic bins, removing and rinsing and drying filters and also closing up garbage bags after dumping a clump of dusty dirt into it. Then throwing out the plastic bag in which I just dumped the dirt.

I can get a box of 5 Miele bags for just 20 Canadian Dollars which will last me a whole year. And I donít mind investing 50 Canadian dollars on a Hepa exhaust filter every 2 years.

Iíd rather deal with Miele bags and filters any day over cleaning and wiping and rinsing and drying the various parts of a bagless vac. I just replaced the bag in my Miele canister and it took me all of 5 minutes!



Post# 390743 , Reply# 11   4/19/2018 at 19:49 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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correction: box of 4 Miele bags for CAD$20. Which would be maximum $40 a year for bags if I really needed to replace them every 2 months.

Post# 390833 , Reply# 12   4/21/2018 at 09:29 by Tseg (World Traveller)        

Agree... $40 per year in bags (less for me as I tend to get 3-4 months per change) is nothing on a $1K+ vacuum. Eliminating 2+ hours of scrubbing a crud encrusted Dyson bagless every year is worth well in excess of $40 to me.

6 months in I did have an SEB236 powerhead stop height adjusting with the foot pedal. Luckily the shop was a mile away, it was fixed under warranty (needed an adjustment vs. a broken piece replaced) and I had it back in 24 hours. Still, a bit of a disappointment. They said they get quite few of the SEB236's coming in with the broken handle release pedal as people only partially push pedal while yanking down the handle. They had never seen my issue before.


Post# 390839 , Reply# 13   4/21/2018 at 12:02 by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
Miele's decision and quality

I have a Miele C1 Olympus and it's well made. Some of Miele's models are now made in China rather than in Germany so they are trying to cut costs somewhat. That doesn't mean it's bad quality but it is something to be aware of. When it comes to the German brands, I think Sebo machines are made slightly better.
The reason why Miele decided to release a bagless vacuum is because consumers demand it. Many consumers think that a bagless vacuum is the latest and greatest thing, and, in a totally ideal world it would be. No bags to replace, just dump out the dirt and it's out of your house for good. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world and there are up and down sides to most things. In the case of bagless vacuums, the down side is that filters clog and the bin must be cleaned out. The only bagless machines that come close to what an ideal bagless vacuum should be are the separator water machines. When you dump the water, the majority of what you have vacuumed up goes with it, you still have to wash the basin and use a paper towel to remove what is left, but you can have the basin as clean as it was before you used it pretty fast. There are no cyclones to remove and clean, some of them have a filter that you should replace every couple of years but that's only on the exhaust. There are some companies, such as Sebo that will probably never make a bagless vacuum because they believe that bags filter better and they are staying with that approach.
Mike


Post# 390880 , Reply# 14   4/22/2018 at 06:49 by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
Miele's are plastic,

but the durable kind, not cheap lexan. The C3 skeleton design saved a bit of weight.
Even their new vortex single fan motor will outlast the old AB E-Lux twin fan motors, and performs at least as well.
At least you are getting what you pay for. Even at close to a thousand US dollars, if it lasts 15 years, you'll be ahead of 5 to 6 cheap Sharks, etc. at $250 each. I see never a Miele at the curb for the trash collectors. Dozens of Sharks.
Sorry Mark Rosen, Euro Pro is Euro trash.


Post# 390893 , Reply# 15   4/22/2018 at 16:00 by kirbylux77 (Orillia, Ontario, Canada)        
Eurekaprince & Tseg

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The problem with both of your thinking is that is NOT what the average consumer thinks these days when shopping for a new vacuum. There's a reason why the shelves at Walmart & other retailers are filled with bagless vacuums, that's what the vast majority of consumers prefer & look for.

Miele HAD to get a bagless canister vacuum into the marketplace, or they risked losing market share. The way Miele (and most vacuum shops) think, the customer will start with a bagless & then realize over time that bagged vacuums are better & will eventually upgrade. The only problem with that thinking is, they most likely won't. Just as you can't sell a upright user on a canister vacuum being better, you also can't convince a customer that prefers bagless that bagged is better, or vice versa. Not going to happen, all they will do is leave the shop & go to the competitor if you try to talk them into a bagged vacuum.

However, I agree with Tom when he says a customer is going to take the person that sells them a bagless Miele to task when they have problems with filters clogging & not performing as expected. Even with the dustbin separated from the filter, it's essentially a Dirt Devil bagless-style design made with much higher quality. If I was looking at a bagless canister vacuum right now, I would buy the Electrolux UltraFlex over the Miele. Performance is pretty darn close to the Miele, & while the quality of the Electrolux canisters isn't quite as good, it's 1/2 the price, so I can live with that & take a gamble. Plus the foam filter setup the UltraFlex has looks like it would be much easier to maintain & live with.

Eurekaprince - You personally may be able to get away with changing a vacuum bag every 2 months, since you live in a studio apartment, but not most consumers. The average household with a husband, wife, 2 kids & a dog or cat, cleaning a average sized family home, will need to change a vacuum bag once a month. The Vacuum Cleaner Manufacturers Association (VCMA) actually recommends as well that vacuum bags be changed once a month, & that's what most vacuum manufacturers suggest in their owner's manuals. Now, you claim you can get away with one 4-bag package of Miele bags @ $20 for 1 year, but if you changed every 2 months you could buy the 8-bag value package @ $35, or as you suggest buy two packages & spend @ $40 per year. Well, for the average family changing bags once a month, that's just not realistic. Changing a bag once per month, over 2 years, you would have to buy three 8-bag value packages @ $105.00, which would be $4.38 per bag instead of $5 per bag if you bought the 4-bag package, for a annual total cost of $52.56. I would like to see you try to convince a consumer shopping in a vac shop for a new vacuum that's dead set on bagless they should spend over $52 per year in bags for their new vacuum, vs buying a bagless vacuum - they won't be having it!

Tseg - $40 per year for bags may seem like nothing to YOU, but you're a vacuum collector. You are NOT a average consumer who would think that's a fair chunk of change to be wasting on vacuum bags. Why do you think aftermarket Miele bags sell like hotcakes online on Amazon & Ebay? I agree with Tom, I have used the aftermarket Miele bags & find they filter just as well as the genuine Original Miele bags do. Also bear in mind that most people will NOT spend $1G on a new vacuum, & it would be hard to talk them into it, most people won't spend over $500 for a new vacuum.

Rob


Post# 390904 , Reply# 16   4/22/2018 at 21:08 by completenutt (West Hollywood, California)        

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I remember even my Mom's old Hoover Dial a Matic had a pre-motor filter, albeit flimsy, and a post motor filter on the upper front under the exhaust grates. So, in today's market, where we strive for cleaner air return comes the washable pre-motor filter and usually a HEPA post motor filter. Those two filters are usually parts of bagged vacs as well, so the inherent need for owner maintenance is universal in most types of machines.

I think that anyone, and I mean anyone, vac enthusiast or not, who decides on a high end bagless machine like the Blizzard or UltraFlex ends up being the reason the machine fails in most cases.

Cleaning a machine and maintaining the parts (i.e. filter replacement or maintenance) should be a built-in responsibility for any purchaser ahead of final purchase and blaming the rep. is only an admission by the majority of users their laziness and lack of understanding on how something works. It could even be a way for them to continue to appreciate the engineering of the machine they've invested in. Like waxing a car, or changing the oil and oil filter... not fun or pretty jobs, but worthwhile if one wants their investment to continue unimpeded operation. I don't think any manufacturer should worry about a general consumer's ability to maintain simple quick access parts and apologize for including them as necessary for the machine to achieve all it's goals. People should buck up and get over it... or else choose a less effective and less complex vacuum.

Any tool that doesn't require routine attention for continued smooth operation is inherently disposable and short lived, imho.

I think there are several reasons why Miele had to compete in the bagless market, bag cost being one, and the need to capture those customers, whether they're right or wrong is debatable, who need immediate gratification in seeing exactly what the vacuum is picking up and gives the user a visual affirmation that their vacuuming effort succeeded...regardless of the actual quality of the vacuum, it gives the same fix to the user for that sense of accomplishment in their efforts.

I agree with Rob on the UltraFlex being similar, almost identical technology, but at an affordable pricepoint. Unfortunately, they are no longer in production as Electrolux sold off their vacuum manufacturing division and, as far as I know, doesn't have any future plans to regain their long standing brand presence in the vacuum marketplace.. so maybe that dirtdevil you spoke of.

Btw, which dirt devil model has a configuration like the Blizzard or the Ultra Flex? Not that I think they're the highest end machines, but it seems an expensive product configuration for them to deliver to their customers at an low price..i.e. around $150 US.


Post# 391294 , Reply# 17   4/29/2018 at 21:08 by sleepdoc (St. Louis, MO)        
Blizzard

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I now have a new Blizzard power nozzle model and am really impressed with it so far. I really like Miele, but I was prepared to be disappointed by this bagless model. So far, though, I'm not at all; in fact, I think it's fantastic. It will take more time and use to arrive at more informed conclusions. So far, I can say that it's quiet, has the same superior fit and finish I expect from Miele, picks up dirt excellently, and isn't a mess to empty by bagless standards. If I still feel this way about it a year from now, I'll have to say Miele hit it out of the park with their first effort. I hope that's the case because Miele has a lot riding on this regarding their reputation (and surely they realize that). These vacuums aren't priced to be "starters" that will feed customers into their bagged machines. They're expensive, and I'm inclined to think that if they don't work well, the buyers will be pissed off and switch brands instead of spending even more on a Marin or Uniq (or whatever they call the TOL canister when the time comes).

Post# 391296 , Reply# 18   4/29/2018 at 21:12 by Completenutt (West Hollywood, California)        

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Awesome, enjoy!




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