Thread Number: 36294  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Just got new carpet: some worries
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Post# 389132   3/26/2018 at 20:39 by broomvac (N/A)        

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Hello All,

Today we just got miles of new carpet in the house. I believe it is called "Shaw Caress." It is very soft and has the number 2 height/density/whatever.

So far, every vacuum I have tried on this carpet has been harder to push vs using them on my old carpet. My Dyson DC33 is virtually unusable; it is so hard to push and I can tell that the belts are not happy. My Amway CMS 1000 is not far behind; it's a bit easier than the DC33 to push but smoked a belt within half an hour. Granted, that was not an OEM belt. I may have better luck with the OEM WMJ belts.

The Fantom Thunder did fine, as did my Kenmore Progressive Intelliclean with its direct-drive brush roll. I don't expect any issues from my Kirby GSix or Kirby Ultimate G Diamond Edition since they are self-propelled, have lots of power, have a very strong belt, and their height adjustment can be fine-tuned. Although I haven't tried them yet, I suspect my Hoover Concept One will also be fine--it's self propelled and made for "groovy" plush carpets--as should my Hoover C1403 and my Dirt Devil Broom Vacs.

However, I have fears about my Kirby Heritage II. On the old carpet, that thing was hard to push. I can only imagine it will get worse with this new nap. Same thing with my Sanitaire S661, plus I have my doubts about its round belt. I also have worries about my Kenmore Hoover Convertible. I fear it won't have enough belt or power for this new rug.

I'll be upset if my new Dyson Cinetic upright has issues with the new carpet, too.

My question for you all is: will the carpet "break in" and improve, or am I just gonna have to expect an arm workout every time I vacuum from here on out. I suspect (hope) it may get better. My hypothesis is that many of the loose fibers from manufacturing will gradually get vacuumed up, improving the airflow through the pile over time and easing the vacuuming. However, I have little experience with this kind of carpet.

I'll keep trying out my vacuums and let you all know how they all do. I'll also update you all if the carpet becomes easier to vacuum.

Thanks.





Post# 389134 , Reply# 1   3/26/2018 at 21:00 by mariotron (Texas )        
G Series Kirby

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They're designed to work well on highpiile carpets. And believe me, while it makes the unit heavier tech drive makes it easy to push. Sanitare should work too.

Stay away from anything with auto adjust though. Unless you have the most common types of carpet it's give you problem on high piles.


Post# 389172 , Reply# 2   3/27/2018 at 07:29 by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)        

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I would not use any Dyson on new carpet, especially the DC33. That brush is so stiff that it can actually rip up carpet fibers.

Post# 389183 , Reply# 3   3/27/2018 at 10:02 by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
beware of using Dyson machines on the new carpet

I'm not sure if this applies to your carpet but there are some carpet manufacturers that will void the warranty on their carpets if a Dyson machine is used on them. It sounds like you mostly use uprights, for canister machines, I would suggest the Centec CT25 which is a power nozzle designed for this kind of carpet.
Mike


Post# 389241 , Reply# 4   3/27/2018 at 21:40 by broomvac (N/A)        

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Thank you all for the responses. Although this new carpet is made of ANSO nylon which is supposed to be the most durable choice, I'm still cautious about using a vacuum which is too aggressive. The pile isn't that high--maybe only 1/2 inch--but it's much more pliable than my previous carpet, so vacuum nozzles have a tendency to get buried into the carpet by the suction. The carpet isn't as stiff, so it doesn't have the reaction force that the previous one did.

Anyways, I tried all of my uprights. Not much debris came out of the carpet. Here's what I found:

Kenmore Progressive Intelliclean: The best choice. Pushes easily and grooms just the right amount. It even has a direct drive brush roll, variable suction motor speed, and a delicate speed for the brush roll!

Sanitaire S661: Once I remembered that this vacuum had 8 height adjustment options, I realized cleaner was bound to be good. And it was. With a 7 amp motor, it has plenty of power and is an appropriate choice for this carpet. The only thing I may change is the belt. Although the household-grade Eureka style RD belt is suitable, I suspect the Sanitaire commercial-grade round belt would be even better.

Kenmore High Performance (Hoover Convertible): It's an acceptable choice for this carpet. Decent to push, doesn't load the motor or belt excessively, and is gentle but effective. I just wish it had one more height setting between "High" and "Shag." Then it would be perfect!

Hoover Concept 1: Surprisingly, this one struggled. The motor was loaded significantly and I felt it was agitating a tad too much. Ironically, the "Plush" carpet setting is too low for our new plush carpet. At the next highest setting, "Shag," the nozzle doesn't even touch. However, this vacuum is currently equipped with a full-length set of the stiffest bristles available, which I suspect are part of the problem. I will exchange these brush strips with *gasp* one of the many sets of WORN brush strips of the softer variety to solve my problem.

Hoover C1403: Simple. Easy on the carpet, moderate load on the belt/motor, killer to push.

Kirby GSix and Ultimate G Diamond Edition: These two were in their element. I was able to fine tune the height adjustment for the carpet. Tech drive made pushing them a breeze, and the motor and belt didn't even sweat.

Kirby Heritage II: This vacuum was fine, except that it absolutely cemented itself to the floor, as I thought it might. Oh well.

Dirt Devil Broom Vacs: These effective little vacuums are right at home on this carpet. They don't have a wide cleaning path, but are otherwise a great choice.

Amway CMS 1000: Decent choice. This vacuum would be great if it had a height adjustment feature. It's easy on the carpet, but is only acceptably easy to push and loads the motor a good bit. It smoked a decent used Bissell Style 7 belt within half an hour. I suspect an OEM belt would last much longer.

Fantom Thunder: Works great. Not too hard to push, not too aggressive, and doesn't load the motor too much.

Dyson DC33: Virtually unusable. The vacuum is incredibly hard to push and the (rather expensive) belts are not happy. I plan to get a spare sole plate and drill suction vent holes in it to fix this issue.

Dyson Cinetic: Absolutely unusable. The vacuum is very hard to push and the brush bar safety system triggers immediately. However, I have a solution. I have ordered a brand new sole plate. In this sole plate, I plan to discreetly drill holes in each side just large enough to relieve the load on everything: the brush roller, the carpet, and me. It'll take a bit of fine tuning, but at least this spare part is the only thing getting modified. I will be able to switch back to my original, unmodified sole plate within seconds and without tools. With this one change, I have confidence that this vacuum will soon go from being the worst to the best choice for this carpet.

I suspect my carpet will still get easier to vacuum as time passes, too. The fibers may firm up some and the carpet might flow more air.

Just for fun, I took some pictures of the "fleet" while it was still out of the vacuum closet for the carpet replacement.




  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 389244 , Reply# 5   3/27/2018 at 21:48 by Iann_nic (NJ)        

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Use a stealth powerhead, they have manual height adjustment in on the highest setting it would be absolutely perfect for you!

Post# 389649 , Reply# 6   4/2/2018 at 19:47 by broomvac (N/A)        

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Thanks for the suggestion, Iann_nic. Sadly, though, I do not have a canister worthy of such a nice powerhead. The only one I have is my Dirt Devil Can Vac, which is about as powerful as a mouse sucking through a straw.

I have, however, made progress towards getting a few more of my vacuums plush carpet compatible.

1. I swapped the stiff bristle strips on my Concept One for a set of softer, shorter ones. In addition, I took a spare height adjuster plate from a junk Concept One and carefully sanded down the ďstair stepĒ corresponding to the shag setting so that on the new shag setting the nozzle would sit a little lower than before on the shag setting. Now she runs like a top again! Itís actually effortless to use thanks to the power drive.

2. I ordered a spare sole plate for my DC33 so I could modify it without damaging my original. After nearly drilling a few, hidden holes at the back of the spare plate, the DC33 is now good to go! Itís easier to push, gentle on the carpet, and gentle on its belts.

3. Similarly, I also purchased a spare sole plate for my Dyson Cinetic upright. After carefully drilling two 3/8 inch diameter holes in the left and right sides of this spare plate, the vacuum now works wonderfully on the carpet.


Post# 389650 , Reply# 7   4/2/2018 at 20:03 by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

When using your Heritage II, try opening the 'suction release' dial at the top of the nozzle. I have to do that when vacuuming my short-nap Oriental throw rugs.

Post# 389653 , Reply# 8   4/2/2018 at 20:25 by broomvac (N/A)        

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texaskirbyguy,

Thanks for the suggestion, but my Heritage II does not have the relieve valve on top of the nozzle, sadly. My former Sanitronic VII and Classic did, though. And of course, now that I need that feature, I no longer have those vacuums.


Post# 389662 , Reply# 9   4/2/2018 at 20:48 by MadMan (Chicago, IL, USA)        

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So wait, the Dysons were sucking themselves to the carpet? And you made relief holes?

It looks like you got it all figured out. I was going to suggest removing the brush entirely from one of the vacs having a problem, just to see if the brush contact with the carpet was causing the issue.

I wonder if your 'fleet' intimidated the carpet guys. lol


Post# 389670 , Reply# 10   4/2/2018 at 21:49 by huskyvacs (Northern Indiana)        

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For those that don't know, removing the rubber vibration seal from Dysons can fix their "hard to push" problem on thick carpets. No need to drill holes or damage the vacuum.






The problem is people want softer thicker carpets now (so more bugs, fleas, mites and dirt can hide in them - why not?) and the problem is that vacuum companies haven't caught up yet to making a vacuum that can tackle this.


Post# 389671 , Reply# 11   4/2/2018 at 21:51 by huskyvacs (Northern Indiana)        

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Maybe we should go back to using this scary thing on the carpets? lol

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Post# 389672 , Reply# 12   4/2/2018 at 21:57 by broomvac (N/A)        

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You got it. Basically, all of the vacuums sucked themselves down to the floor. Usually, a carpet will be firm enough to support the vacuum nozzle and keep it from sinking too deep into the pile. This plush carpet is so soft that it does not. Vacuum nozzle tend to sink right in, making them very hard to push and sometimes loading up the brush too much.

One way to alleviate this problem is with manual height adjustment. With manual height adjustment, I can set the vacuum such that the nozzle is not supported by the carpet but rather by its own wheels. Thus, the nozzle doesnít sink into the carpet.

The other thing that helps is relieving some of the suction. Some of the vacuums have both a manual height adjustment AND some suction relief vents designed into the nozzle. Both the Kenmore Progressive and the Fantom Thunder have gaps designed into the front edges of their sole plates for this very reason, and that is why they did so well with the new carpet.

My Dysons have neither manual height adjustment nor suction relief gaps, and they have incredibly strong suction. They depend on the carpet to support their nozzles. Not gonna work well with my new soft carpet. They just wind up sucking themselves deep into the carpet pile, making them hard to push and stopping the brush. Suction relief holes have fixed this issue. My Cinetic glides over the carpet once again.

I, too, didnít know what the carpet people would think of my load of vacuums. Since I thought it might raise an eyebrow or two or maybe some questions about whether I will vacuum the carpet to excess, I hid them in the basement while they worked upstairs. lol


Post# 389711 , Reply# 13   4/3/2018 at 11:18 by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

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If your Heritage  II Legend was too hard to push, I would suggest that you had the height setting too low. Try setting 2 or 3 and see how it performs.

 

Was the green LED on the nozzle flickering or was it on solid? This would indicate brushroll performance.

 

 


Post# 389713 , Reply# 14   4/3/2018 at 11:26 by broomvac (N/A)        

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Definitely not too low. I lowered it one click at a time. Once the nozzle made its first contact with the carpet, I stopped lowering it. The carpet actually gets lifted to the nozzle. Still, even with this technique, the Heritage II was impossible to push.

The vacuum has a fresh belt and the brush roll light was solid the whole time. The vacuum was agitating well. It was just silly hard to push.


Post# 389714 , Reply# 15   4/3/2018 at 11:28 by broomvac (N/A)        

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I was on like setting 6 or something. I canít remember exactly what it was, but it was only one or two clicks from the top.

Post# 389742 , Reply# 16   4/3/2018 at 18:53 by luxflairguy (Wilmington, NC)        
What vacuum to use!

Broomvac!

You overlooked the most important posting in this thread!
You have a manufacturer's warranty and if using the WRONG vacuum on your new carpets damages them, well, you're out of luck!
Your carpet retailer/installer should have left you a warranty booklet, which from experience will tell you lots of things. These days it often includes "approved" vacuums for use on your new carpet. Pay attention to that! If you have a problem down the road and ask about your warranty and they looked at yes, say your Dyson and it's not on the approved vacuum list, well, no warranty coverage!

For the course of your warranty years, make sure you have an "approved" machine on hand if there are any questions. You can say that you've used this machine exclusively and then you have warranty coverage. HIDE your other machines!

There have been many articles about how important this is today! Get your warranty booklet and follow it for the duration of the warranty! I can speak from experience!
Greg


Post# 389773 , Reply# 17   4/3/2018 at 22:52 by huskyvacs (Northern Indiana)        

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WOW! You can actually screw yourself out of the warranty by using a "bad vacuum" on the carpet you paid for if it's not on their "safe list"? I have never heard of this before! (maybe that's why they hide it in the fine print and never tell anyone)

I haven't had carpet in my house since 2000, so I guess this must have been something new that happened?


Post# 389785 , Reply# 18   4/4/2018 at 04:40 by pr-21 (Middletown, OH)        
Carpet Rug Institute

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The Carpet Rug Institute tests vacuum cleaners and has recommendations of the ones they

recommend.

 

 

PR-21

Bud


Post# 389832 , Reply# 19   4/4/2018 at 20:52 by broomvac (N/A)        

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I definitely see your concern, but I'm not going to sweat it too much. The whole warranty issue crossed my mind. I have not yet looked through the official papers they gave us, but a quick google search did not reveal any warranty documents for this carpet which forbade the use of certain vacuums. The only thing I found was an obscure document from Shaw stating which vacuums they "recommend" for the carpet. It seemed more of a suggestion than law. The list contained some ten or so random vacuums and central vacuum power nozzles. Since Shaw "coordinated with the vacuum manufacturers" to create this list, it would not surprise me if the list has less to do with the performance of the vacuum and more to do with who paid Shaw to make it on the list. The only machine on the list that I [sort of] own is a Kirby Sentria/Avalir. Let's face it--my GSix or Diamond Edition is virtually the same thing. If anything, the Diamond Edition is even better thanks to it's delicate switch.

I seriously doubt any of my vacuums will cause damage to the carpet. Even though the carpet is brand new and may have loose debris from manufacturing, I have not been finding clumps of carpet fuzz in my vacuums, just the regular dirt, dust, and cat fur.

Incidentally, I have noticed that the carpet has become marginally easier to vacuum as the new carpet stink has dissipated. I think that as the factory-fresh nylon carpet has gassed off volatile organic compounds, the fibers have gotten a tad firmer. This has made vacuuming a lot more normal.

Thanks again for your input, all.





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