Thread Number: 36242
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Central vac vs Portable vac. |
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Post# 388659   3/21/2018 at 11:48 (2,227 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388669 , Reply# 2   3/21/2018 at 14:10 (2,227 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY)   |   | |
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Post# 388670 , Reply# 3   3/21/2018 at 14:10 (2,227 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388671 , Reply# 4   3/21/2018 at 14:11 (2,227 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388689 , Reply# 5   3/21/2018 at 17:48 (2,226 days old) by blackheart (North Dakota)   |   | |
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Unless you have a very powerful Unit I disagree. I've had multiple Central units and usually find their airflow to be weaker than a strong portable.
The Units in Question are An unknown Broan, Motor specs (115334) CFM @ 2-In. Orifice 102.7; Vacuum (H2O Sealed) 110.0. It was a filtered cyclonic unit the maximum baird reading at the end of a 1 3/8 Hanmi Hose was about 3.5 Broan CV40B, It used two motors in series 1 5.7 peripheral bypass followed by a 5.7 tangential bypass. Max reading on the same Hanmi Hose 5.5 Drainvac Viper It used a 2 stage flow through motor it's the most powerful unit i've owned. 144 CFM, 151 Waterlift 7.5 on the baird meter with the Hanmi Fast forward a few years: I now have a 30' Plastiflex 13/8 hose Beam 2100A 3 stage 5.7 tangential bypass motor CFM 95 Water lift 136" Baird 3.5 MD Silentmaster S4 3 stage 5.7 peripheral bypass CFM 101 Waterlift 139" it ran somewhere around a 4.5 on the Baird meter. I have Seen a Beam SC375 also pull a 7.5 but this may be due to the worn out baird meter we have. It's motor specs are 124 for both CFM and lift. So assuming the shop's Baird meter was off the most powerful unit I've gauged was the Drainvac Viper scoring 7.5. There are a few portables capable of matching this. I've kinda been disappointed with centrals really. |
Post# 388695 , Reply# 6   3/21/2018 at 19:59 (2,226 days old) by kenkart ()   |   | |
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The 1929 Spencer in the Fox theatre, it has more power than any small vacuum I have ever seen. |
Post# 388705 , Reply# 7   3/22/2018 at 00:56 (2,226 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388708 , Reply# 8   3/22/2018 at 01:59 (2,226 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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I did a test this morning. My central vac vs my Miele S8 2200w motor.
I put rice particles in my hardfloor. The central vac hose was plugged directly into the power unit. I put equal amounts of rice in front of both hoses. The hoses and equal distance away from the rice particles and moved both hoses towards the rice to see which pulled the rice in first. It was a tie both pulled the rice in from the same distance away. Ok not scientific but it convinced me that my central vac is as powerful as what I consider to be a very powerful portable bagged cleaner. 😁 |
Post# 388713 , Reply# 9   3/22/2018 at 04:13 (2,226 days old) by blackheart (North Dakota)   |   | |
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Post# 388714 , Reply# 10   3/22/2018 at 04:19 (2,226 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388716 , Reply# 11   3/22/2018 at 06:25 (2,226 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388739 , Reply# 14   3/22/2018 at 13:32 (2,226 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388745 , Reply# 15   3/22/2018 at 15:54 (2,226 days old) by blackheart (North Dakota)   |   | |
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Is both a blessing and a curse. All this testing has kinda killed my interest in vacs. As i begin to learn what works and what doesn't I'm viewing my vacuums quite differently.
Either way I know centrals usually have more lift than a portable but airflow is another story. Granted a strong enough Unit can match them but I think it's safe to say the majority of centrals are not capable of matching a strong portable |
Post# 388831 , Reply# 16   3/23/2018 at 15:06 (2,225 days old) by vacuumdevil (Vacuum Hell )   |   | |
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@Vacfan1982 generally Central vacs are two to four times more powerful then a portable vacuum even after it goes through the pipe you must understand that the pipes installation needs properly be done but most of the time it is.
@crazykirbydude sounds like the central vac either is undersized or not working properly. A modern Central Vac should easily clean better than even the best portable vacuum. #CentralVacuumpropaganda |
Post# 388832 , Reply# 17   3/23/2018 at 15:12 (2,225 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388852 , Reply# 18   3/23/2018 at 19:15 (2,224 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)   |   | |
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Central vacuums aren't as powerful (airflow wise) as dirty air portables. Not by a long shot. For your inspection: a Lamb Ametek 8.4" double stage vacuum motor.
If we're talking about what can be safely plugged into a 15 Amp, 120V circuit, this 675 peak airwatt monster cannot deliver the CFM of a fan-first machine. Even though it starts out at 142 CFM (2" diameter), airflow plummets to 106 CFM when a typical 1.125" hose is connected. Then subtract at least 20-30 CFM more for connection losses, hose length losses and power nozzle u-joint losses. What's available at the power nozzle? Typically 76-86 CFM. Oh, it's backed up with maybe 120" of lift, giving that "suck the paint off the walls feel", but high CFM? Nope. If you want to move the dirt, you have to move the air. Want to lift things? Then get lots of suction (think of a suction cup, no air moves...you hope). Now if you have something more powerful than 1600 Watts, sure, you could have more airflow, but what happens when you put 140 CFM through a typical 12" nozzle? Answer: you can't push it. That's why Kirby has a 14" nozzle and a tech drive. Bill
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Post# 388891 , Reply# 19   3/24/2018 at 02:43 (2,224 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388892 , Reply# 20   3/24/2018 at 02:47 (2,224 days old) by vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388894 , Reply# 21   3/24/2018 at 03:13 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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These ratings don't look so special.
As Roger said the noise level exceeds the EU rating so they won't be able to be sold here unless they can get the noise level down to 80 db.
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Post# 388908 , Reply# 22   3/24/2018 at 05:22 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388915 , Reply# 23   3/24/2018 at 10:02 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388921 , Reply# 24   3/24/2018 at 10:37 (2,224 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)   |   | |
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A Kirby Avalir does not score a "C" rating on carpet. BUT, feel free to generate any EU label you like as they have an online label generator here.
ec.europa.eu/energy/eepf-labels/... And just for laughs, I made one up for the "new" Shark NV1000 (fake of course). I have to wonder, how much power does your dual 5.7" fan central vac use? 3000 watts? 4000 watts? Does the new EU regs apply to central vacs (I haven't looked at this yet)? Bill
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Post# 388926 , Reply# 25   3/24/2018 at 10:55 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388927 , Reply# 26   3/24/2018 at 10:58 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388929 , Reply# 27   3/24/2018 at 11:07 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388940 , Reply# 29   3/24/2018 at 11:55 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Naughty Bill I should put you over my knee and spank you for that! 👋
I don't actually agree with a C rating on carpet I would have thought it would be an A. Maybe Kirby UK should ask for a retest and ask to be present when it's done. I did actually speak to the MD of Kirby UK about this and he was far from happy. His words to me were "Even a bloody Sebo got better ratings" Haha I slapped him down for that remark being a Sebo fan 😁 |
Post# 388951 , Reply# 31   3/24/2018 at 12:19 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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The carpet test in done on a Wilton carpet. An A rating removes 91% of dust a B rating 87% and so on....
I think they need to improve the procedure. Some manufacturers do their own rests. Kirby had there's done in a test centre. I think there should be designated test centres and to use the highest standard of testing possible and test on different thickness of pile, and test for pet hair too. |
Post# 388955 , Reply# 32   3/24/2018 at 13:19 (2,224 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)   |   | |
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that a machine over in the USA, rated by CRI as "gold" and highly by Consumer Reports for years and years does very poorly on European "wilton" carpet. That carpet must not be anywhere close to the typical USA medium pile carpet. If that's the case, then you would need different carpet cleaning machines for European households.
If that label is accurate, a Kirby would: 1) spew out so much dust ("F" rating) that it should make most people sick or at least cough/sneeze when running. 2) Not be worth more than $100-something Euros, because don't you have similarly priced machines that also score a "C" rating for carpet? Here's a link to CRI's certified vacuums page. Top listing? Kirby Avalir. www.carpet-rug.org/certified-vacu... Again, if the EU's testing methodologies are to be believed, there would be no point in buying one because most inexpensive cheap plastic vacs would meet or beat a Kirby. We all that's simply not true. Oh, and the KirbyWHQ website is now down. For UK Kirby browsing, go to www.kirby.com/gb... Bill
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Post# 388957 , Reply# 33   3/24/2018 at 13:27 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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The poor rating for dust emissions is carbon dust from the motor.
The Sebo X4 had a similar rating because the HEPA or S class filter is before the motor so it doesn't filter the carbon dust very well. But like I said Kirby has good points and bad points like any vacuum cleaner. It does get slightly annoying when Kirby fans keep bleating on about how superior they and everything else it a load of 💩 |
Post# 388959 , Reply# 34   3/24/2018 at 13:56 (2,224 days old) by vaclab (Pickerington, Ohio)   |   | |
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The Silent Master 900R2 (240V) uses 3288 Watts (1644 Watts per motor)
builtinvacuum.com/dealer/downloa... If you want to say that a car with TWO engines is faster than just one engine, go right ahead. My comparison was specifically with a central vac with ONE motor using no more than 1600 Watts. BTW, the 120V version uses 3336 Watts (1668 Watts per motor). builtinvacuum.com/silent_master/... Bill |
Post# 388961 , Reply# 35   3/24/2018 at 14:19 (2,224 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 388965 , Reply# 36   3/24/2018 at 15:07 (2,224 days old) by Mike811 (Finland)   |   | |
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Central vacuums are powerhouses, but after all the piping and hoses it really needs to be. I was surprised that some portable clean air vacuums can be more powerful than some central vacs.
My personal measurement from one 2200 watt canister vacuum cleaner. baird 9 = 108 cfm suction 2800 mm H2O = 110 Inches Of Water (suction release valve cut the suction) 500 airwatts* *Suction power tested in accordance with international standard IEC 60312-1, tested by external test institute SLG Prüf- und Zertifizierungs GmbH (Philips Consumer LifeStyle B.V., August 2012) |
Post# 389187 , Reply# 37   3/27/2018 at 10:40 (2,221 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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If they are lower end models, maybe not. But central vacuums over the years have improved the performances on the motors they've used. If they are top of the line models, it can easily out clean almost any portable vacuum there is on the market. It's true that Kirby is a good vacuum, but there are so many advantages why I rather use a central vacuum anyday over a Kirby. Easier and faster to use, quieter, better filtration and generally holds more dirt than a Kirby bag, and a better guarantee. With the Vacuflo MaxAir or the Aqua-Air 258 for example with it's two motors, you can actually have two people vacuuming with it at once. Since the Volt powerhead was recently updated with improvements, in the future it could actually out-clean any portable direct air vacuum on the market when Tacony masters it, especially the Royal which I think is the best vacuum when it comes to cleaning carpets.
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Post# 389189 , Reply# 38   3/27/2018 at 10:47 (2,221 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 389250 , Reply# 39   3/27/2018 at 22:03 (2,220 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)   |   | |
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Is there a new volt model? What did they improve on it? Mike |
Post# 389609 , Reply# 40   4/2/2018 at 06:17 (2,215 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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I did another experiment today that I saw on Vaclabs channel.
I put a plastic cup on my hardfloors. I move my Miele C3 towards the cup and measured the point it grabbed the cup. It was 4.5cm away. Then I did the same with my MD Central vac..it grabbed the cup 4cm away. So the Miele won. A central vac will have more power at the unit but after it has travelled through a 30ft hose a lot of that power is lost. Claims that a central vac has 3 to 4 times the power of a portable vac is not true at the end of the hose! |
Post# 389611 , Reply# 42   4/2/2018 at 06:25 (2,215 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 389618 , Reply# 43   4/2/2018 at 10:04 (2,215 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)   |   | |
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If you are connecting your hose directly to your central vac unit it should definitely be more powerful than most portable machines. I'm wondering if something is not sealed properly. With all of my central vac units, which I use without pipes, it is definitely more powerful than my portable canisters. Mike |
Post# 389619 , Reply# 44   4/2/2018 at 10:08 (2,215 days old) by Vacfan1982 (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 389685 , Reply# 45   4/3/2018 at 00:52 (2,214 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)   |   | |
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My Silentmaster machine has a single motor-the dual motor units run from 220-240V.Mine is for 120V-15A. |
Post# 396143 , Reply# 46   8/3/2018 at 18:04 (2,091 days old) by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)   |   | |
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My current unit is a Riccar RPU-C10. I have a thing for machines with two motors in parallel, I think this offers the best end of hose performance. Although honestly, I've seen and used lots of units that didn't have any more power than a very powerful portable machine, such as a Tri-Star or my bra late 80's Kenmore canister. Even at that I still feel there's advantages over a drag around tragedy. Mostly being that none of the air and filth is blowing back into the room, and you don't hear or schlep the thing around.
All that being said, my unit won't pull less than a 7 through the 30ft hose! if you straighten the hose out it'll get a solid 9. Sadly one of the boards is going flaky and will leave one of the motors running for a bit after its supposed to stop! So I'm taking the occasion to install a different unit, a bagged one this time. I'm getting an MD Modern Day M965h2, two motors each having 137in of water lift, and 95CFM. I'm also ordering two motors at the same time, from another single motor unit... Two motors, identical in size and shape, but have 111 CFM and 155in. of water lift... This should be fun, buy a brand new unit and then dick around with it literally the moment it comes out of the box! I have yet to see a portable machine clean better than my Riccar, so this new one will be absolutely nuts! |
Post# 396190 , Reply# 48   8/4/2018 at 14:59 (2,091 days old) by Ultralux88 (Denver, Colorado)   |   | |
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The loss of suction in the pipe system should be absolutely none, airflow loss is very minimal, as the pipe is smooth inside, and if the proper fittings are used, the bends are too. But to me the elaborate plumbing system is part of the draw of a central vac me anyway... But I've put both the Baird indicator and the working vacuum gage "test fixture" at both the farthest inlet from the unit and the utility valve right next to the machine, no difference. The Baird immediately snaps to 10 with a loud whack! And I get about 90 inches of working vacuum at all the inlets. Sealed suction measures about 110, and the slightest drop in flow will be very noticeable on the working vacuum measurement, as it measures the suction with a (I think) 3/4in opening open, the idea being the greater the volume, the better it can hold the vacuum with the open hole. |
Post# 396620 , Reply# 49   8/11/2018 at 16:15 (2,084 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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I also don't notice any difference in the performance with or without any pipes, unless you have two people vacuumingwith it at once.
Plus, I'd rather have the unit in the garage, basement, or storage room for obvious reasons. I don't have to hear the noise of the unit, just the suction and powerhead itself. All of the dirt and carbon dust can be exhausted out of the house. I've always hated dragging and carrying the canister unit around the house, it would be a nightmare doing the same with the central unit. And it would be so much easier doing maintenance if the unit was hung at the wall. There are some units with two motors that can run on 120 volts, but they would usually come with a different plug. |
Post# 452213 , Reply# 50   5/1/2022 at 10:56 (725 days old) by ajr2993 (Bakersfield, CA)   |   | |
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Central vacuums are not aerodynamic at all and have terrible cleaning performance. Portable vacuums will clean circles around central vacuums. |
Post# 452226 , Reply# 51   5/1/2022 at 23:00 (724 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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I highly disagree. Not all portable vacuums or direct air machines can out clean any central vacuum, especially the CycloVac 7525 which is now the new best overall vacuum cleaner that I've ever used. In fact, one of the problems that I have with direct air vacuums in general is the lack of suction and filtration that they have.
www.cyclovac.us/vacuum/vacuums-un...
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Post# 452230 , Reply# 52   5/2/2022 at 00:11 (724 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)   |   | |
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Direct air and central-disagree here-My Kirbys and metal Royal uprights pick up better than my centrals for carpet vacuuming.Other jobs-the central vacuum. |
Post# 452234 , Reply# 53   5/2/2022 at 07:56 (724 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa)   |   | |
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Post# 452240 , Reply# 54   5/2/2022 at 22:01 (723 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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If anybody can prove that any direct air vacuum would still do a better job on carpets than the CycloVac 7525, I'd be more than happy to listen. But when I recently tried out the CycloVac, I felt like there was no way any of the direct air machines that I've used could pull off against the 7525. Next time when my dealer puts in another 7525, I'll do a comparison test. Especially with the Hide-A-Hose CX1000 or the Volt powerhead equipped. In the mean time, I'm going to stand behind with my earlier post. I think central vacs have finally made it on top of the food chain.
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Post# 452246 , Reply# 56   5/3/2022 at 07:46 (723 days old) by Kloveland (Tulsa)   |   | |
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Post# 452254 , Reply# 58   5/3/2022 at 11:26 (723 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa)   |   | |
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