Thread Number: 35782  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Miele C3
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Post# 384102   1/11/2018 at 21:27 by markhenry (USA)        

Hello,

I am trying to figure out some stuff...

After much thinking... it seems for an 'every day clean' the likes of Kirby or Rainbow will not be ideal.

Also given the $3000+ cost difference... Im gonna have to wait on the whole Rainbow/Kirby thing anyway.

Given this, I decided what would make most sense for me at the moment is to get a C3 Miele, and have that as my convenient go-to vacuum for every day use (quickly grab it out of storage, go over the floors quick, throw back in storage) - and then on the side when finances allow, I can have either a Rainbow or Kirby for that 'real clean' finish one a week/fortnight.

So, having decided to go with the Miele (never read anyone saying they don't actually clean properly)... I am trying to figure out which canister model to buy...

Looking at all the different models, it seems the model differences from $500-$1200 is just based on certain features and attachments. The wattage of the machines, some 1200w and some 2000w... they told me that it just means thats how much power it takes to run, nothing to do with the vacuum/airflow etc of the machine.

So in end they are all identical just come with different stuff and run 2 different Wattages.

The most expensive one (Green) is the Electro line... they told me if I want to use an electrobrush... that is the ONLY model that works with the brush. The rest of the vacuums are not. I asked can't I just buy the electrobrush head and add to the other models... answers No.

So if I want the electric turbo brush..... there is only that one model to buy.

If I don't care for it, then I got a whole arrange of models I can get and if one hasn't got what I need, I can either buy the more expensive unit, or just buy the head I need and add to the cheaper Vacuum.

They are all sealed units and all the same just different heads and filtration. Some use Active AirClean filters with charcoal to minimize odours, others use HEPA for smaller particle capture but not so much designed for odours like the Active Filter.

Uhm...

What exactly is the difference between the Active Air CLean Filter and the HEPA? Which one will clean 'better'?

I was told they clean the same, even on website both state 99.97% particle filtration... so I kinda dont get why HEPA is even needed then for allergies when both say 99.7%... ??

Other than that..

Do I need an electric brush, or is the Turbo brush good enough? - Only thing I found with turbo brush in thick hair carpet... as soon as the head is put on the floor, the brush stops spinning... the electric one on other hand would keep turning? Or is the electric one just to help you push the head along the carpet... not because it adds any cleaning benefit?





Post# 384106 , Reply# 1   1/11/2018 at 22:31 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Get yourself a Miele C3 Complete Marin. It is the top-rated power nozzle canister in current Consumer Reports test rankings and it excels at pet hair pick up on carpets. If and when you move to a home with mostly bare floors, you can always splurge for a second set of compatible lighter wands and non-electrified hose to make cleaning of non-carpeted surfaces even easier on the arms.

Check out YouTube for some user reviews of the Marin - it’s a pretty dependable all-around vacuum.





Post# 384108 , Reply# 2   1/11/2018 at 23:04 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
Don't buy a Marin . Why there's nothing mechanically wrong with the Marine There's no reason to overpay. Walk into a dealer and buy a home care model you will get a few extra accessories and a longer warranty. The C3 Home Care full retail is $950 the C3 + same as the brilliant full retail of $1200 most dealers will also negotiate pricing from there hopefully somebody in vacuum land is willing to hook you up with one as well being vacuum collector.

Post# 384110 , Reply# 3   1/11/2018 at 23:39 by markhenry (USA)        

Thats all models in the US... I assume the Marin is the elelctric turbo brush with LED lights model you are referring to... ? That is the highest dollar one.

The cheaper ones just have a standard turbo brush...

Last question regarding Miele...

They have come out with a Bagless Miele CX1 - They say they are identical in suction/airflow etc as the bagged machine... same cleanliness etc just no bag instead of Bag. So for all intents it just costs more to start with but no bags to keep buying.

Anyone got experience with these to actually know which one cleans better, or are they the same?

It isn't hard to go to a bin outside and dump the dust out... I don't see why people call it messy, you don't do it in the house?!



Post# 384112 , Reply# 4   1/11/2018 at 23:46 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@markhenry yes these are us native models. I would recommend one with an SEb228 or a SEB 236 power nozzle. The turbo nozzles really lack power. I would stick to a vacuum bag it's really convenient and traps the Dust. If you have allergies I would run there HEPA filter if there are no allergies I would run the charcoal filter to deal with odor. Both filter very well.
Your name says USA next to it are you in the US?


Post# 384116 , Reply# 5   1/12/2018 at 06:28 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
But Alex, it looks like the HomeCare version has all the controls on the handle - isn’t that more repair prone and problematic? Wouldn’t it be safer to get the Marin that has the control panel on the canister itself? The only switch on the Marin’s handle is the power nozzle on/off toggle.

As an aside....I like the blue colour better. :-D


Post# 384138 , Reply# 6   1/12/2018 at 10:28 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@eurekaprince hose fail rate is about the same right now on either model.
There are two Homecare model C3 as I stated above. One with all the controls in the handle ,one has the controls on the base of the unit.


Post# 384141 , Reply# 7   1/12/2018 at 11:55 by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
The Miele' Marin blue

is the next to the top of the line model. The Brilliant is the top (spitzen) klasse model. It is a dark taupe color, with led "ditch" lights for lack of a better term on the lower side edges, and a felt lined tool compartment.
Retail for Marin= $1,200 US, Brilliant= $1,300 or in that ballpark.


Post# 384152 , Reply# 8   1/12/2018 at 15:21 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@vacerator the Marin c3 retail price is $1049. Brilliance c3+ retail prices $1499 in the USA .
I think he's looking for Down Under. I would pick the model listed as followed.
"Complete C3 Comfort Electro Plus PowerLine - SGPA0"


Post# 384157 , Reply# 9   1/12/2018 at 19:44 by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
what about the cat ad dog or the cona

I think these models also include an Electric power nozzle. I would not get a turbo brush for several reasons. First, a turbo brush uses the vacuum's airflow to spin the turbine so it robs the vacuum of cleaning power. Second, turbo brushes are much louder than an electric brush, imagine a dentist drill on steroids. Finally, everything that is vacuumed up goes through the turbine so they are very prone to clogs. Electric brushes do not have any of these issues.
Mike


Post# 384167 , Reply# 10   1/12/2018 at 22:20 by markhenry (USA)        

Thanks for that... then the vacuums gone from 650 to $1200 for the sake of an electric brush.

Anyone got experiece with the CX1 bagless?

Apparently they clean just as good as bagged version, and no dust leaves them back out in air either...



Post# 384182 , Reply# 11   1/13/2018 at 10:50 by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
avoid the bagless machines

I would avoid the bagless machines, actually I'm not even sure if the Miele bagless machine is available in the U.S. I would avoid these, when you dump them out, dust goes all over and they are much more prone to losing cleaning performance because of clogged filters. I know for most consumers, bagless vacuums have all the hype, but bagged machines really are better. The only bagless machines worth considering are the separator based water filtration machines such as a Rainbow or Sirena.
Mike


Post# 384197 , Reply# 12   1/13/2018 at 16:27 by markhenry (USA)        

Only thing is you just rinse the HEPA under water. With bagged its $50 a year on filter replacement + bags... bagless is run a little bit of water over the filter dry it and insert back in and continue for another 6 months (lifetime filter)...?

Post# 384213 , Reply# 13   1/14/2018 at 02:04 by markhenry (USA)        

Had to ask one more thing only because I got told this by a rainbow sales rep...

They told me too many companies talk about vacuum, which means nothing. It is all about airflow.

I looked up a few things...

The Miele C3 showed 108 CFM tested empty bag, and with a full (overly full) bag it was down to 97cfm which is still quite good?

The Rainbows on other hand might run perfect all the time as they don't loose suction... but... its 80 CFM or something.

I don't see how that sales pitch on Not losing suction is relevant when other vacuums AFTER they lose their CFM are still higher than a Rainbow... ???? Am I missing something?

Lastly I wanted to ask... After the sales Rep told me everything about 'pure air, only vacuum in the world to have a AAFA approval etc'... I asked him "But Miele C3 shows 0 particles go back out into the air as well? So how is the rainbow any different?"

And he told me that almost all new vacuum cleaners will show 0 on the particle test because they are new. After 6 months of use however, the Miele and every other vacuum (Kirby included) will no longer be zero because things will start to leak out, while the rainbow will be 0 even after 7 years of use.

Any truth to this? Or is the Miele going to stay the way it is for the lifetime of the machine? I can't see how it will change...

Needless to say I also looked up the AAFA official website and found Dysons as AAFA approved as well, so so much for 'only one in the world', and I personally think Miele would also be AAFA approved if they cared to pay for it.


Post# 384214 , Reply# 14   1/14/2018 at 03:00 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        
GO Test drive the vacuums !

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@markhenry
The HEPA in a Rainbow dose not last a lifetime ,filter life is 1-3 years.
I would say the Rainbow has less water lift then the Miele .
But the rainbow has more CFM then Miele from my experience .
I do not know what they clam it is .

Here is a test of a Miele from 1998.





CLICK HERE TO GO TO vacuumdevil's LINK


Post# 384220 , Reply# 15   1/14/2018 at 09:16 by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
vacuum, airflow and 0 emissions

There was a long thread a while back on the topic of suction and airflow, but to summarize, you need both to clean well. Suction is the force of the air moving through the vacuum, airflow is the amount of air that is moved. Usually as one decreases, the other increases. If you turn on a table or floor fan, you have a lot of airflow but not much suction because there is a very large area for the air to move through. On the other hand, if you attach a small cleaning tool to a vacuum hose, you have a lot of suction but not as much airflow. To have a machine that cleans well, you need a decent amount of both. The so called dirty air uprights such as Kirby, metal royal, Sanitaire etc. have lots of airflow and clean carpets very well. However, they do not have very much suction so they are not as good with attachments. Clean air machines such as uprights with this design and canister vacuums provide a good amount of suction and airflow which is why they work better with a hose.
I would be hesitant to believe what that Rainbow sales person told you. Assuming that the bags and filters are replaced regularly and the seals on the vacuum are not damaged, the imissions should remain at zero.
Mike


Post# 384221 , Reply# 16   1/14/2018 at 09:32 by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Mike,

Thank you for that concise yet clear and understandable explanation and comparison of “suction” and “airflow”. Very, very informative - probably the clearest description I have ever read!

EurekaPrince Brian


Post# 384223 , Reply# 17   1/14/2018 at 11:05 by blackheart (North Dakota)        
Alex?

"But the rainbow has more CFM then Miele from my experience . "

I'm curious what lead to that conclusion?


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Post# 384235 , Reply# 18   1/14/2018 at 14:45 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@blackheart
Just because somebody photoshopped there air flow results into a picture, does not make it accurate or fact. I've seen many of these inaccurate info posted on here.

Both of those machines are top of the line and clean very well it'll come down to handling and personal preference.

Fact of the matter is that we are discussing Ferrari versus Lamborghini. They're both adequate they fast. :)

@n0oxy I agree with you 100% you need both. Which is why I have a central vacuum.


Post# 384236 , Reply# 19   1/14/2018 at 14:48 by blackheart (North Dakota)        
Well.

That person was me. I don't expect others to take it as factual but those are the numbers I've personally measured on my machines. Even if the method is flawed it still provides a comparison of some sort.

Post# 384239 , Reply# 20   1/14/2018 at 15:20 by markhenry (USA)        

I asked a few places about Central vacuums... airflow etc is hindered by the length of the hose. Considering central air vacuums have huge amounts of pipe/hose before it gets to you... It has been stated they are the weakest in terms of actual cleaning performance. Might be convenient and the motor is outside... but thats about it.

Black - I saw similar stuff to what you posted on youtube tests myself, not by sales people or manufacturers, but simply people with interest in vacuums that happen to own a few different vacuums and can demonstrate.

vcuumdevil - Ferrar Lamborghini I would understand, but in this case, when one can be bought for $1200 (miele electro model) or a $4000 rainbow which is 'weaker'... I fail to see the comparison. Like this you are paying ferrari prices for a regular sedan.

But the filtering system is awesome... Miele don't let anything in the air either... so I fail to see the benefit to that either. To me it feels like they are simply banking on "But it washes the air" - Dude you can't wash air. You can take dust out of it, but wash the dust? Dust is dust...

What they need to do, to justify such an exorbitant price on the rainbow is actually make it have over 120 CFM at the Nossle. Then at least if you want a Kirby or Rainbow... both cost the same and perform much of a muchness. Like this you are paying Kirby prices (Ferrari Prices) for a machine that is mediocre and no 'stronger' than machines at 500 bucks (regular sedans). So wheres the logic to that? There is none, may as well get a Kirby then for that price, at least you get what you pay for with those.

I love the concept of Rainbow... but come on... release a model with real airflow so that there is some logic to buying the machine and I would get it.

Anyway, regarding the C3 - I have low carpet. It isn't the thick fluffy stuff... and 2 cats.

People at Miele recommended I get the Cat and Dog C3, Red canister, $500, comes with turbo brush and mini turbo brush, Settings are on board the canister. 2000w motor.

I also liked the Blue one, which had the +/- on the handles (settings done via the handle, but also has buttons on board to adjust that way too if you prefer), it had rubber wheels instead of plastic, so that you don't damage wooden floors which the red one didn't, and that one has a 1200w motor instead of 2000w.

Then you got the electro models, which are $1200 (from $500-650 vs $1200 now), has everything the other ones have + electric brush which alone is $450 and usable on the model, not usable on the other models. However it also has the 2000w motor not the 1200w motor...

Do I even need the electric brush?


Post# 384244 , Reply# 21   1/14/2018 at 16:56 by blackheart (North Dakota)        
i'm very confused!

Mark your location says USA but you keep reffering to Miele models i'm unfamiliar with. The Cat and dog in the US is white, has the electric SEB-228 nozzle, body speed controls, and a handheld turbine brush and sells for 949. I'm also unfamiliar with a blue model that has speed controls on the handle. As far as i know in the US the only two that have them are the bronze-ish C3 brilliant and the C3 homecare +. the suction motors also top out at 1200w there are no 2000w mieles here....

Also where are you getting the figure for 4000 for a rainbow? I've heard they go from about 1600-2400 new, of course your haggling ability effects it.

I apologize if i'm prying i'm just very confused and it makes it harder to discuss machines when we're talking about different countries. Miele's US lineup is pretty different as the majority of consumers desire a power nozzle here.


Post# 384258 , Reply# 22   1/14/2018 at 21:16 by vacuumdevil (Denver)        

vacuumdevil's profile picture
@blackheart he's definitely in Australia or somewhere in that part of the world from the models. I feel like we're being trolled by him.

Post# 384266 , Reply# 23   1/14/2018 at 22:02 by royalfan (Chicago)        

royalfan's profile picture
@markhenry just buy a top-of-the-line Miele ! You're saving money over the rainbow.
Or by bottom-line Miele and a royal :D





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