Thread Number: 34221  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
EU energy saver vs high power vacuum performance
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Post# 370850   4/17/2017 at 06:21 (184 days old) by Mike811 (Finland)        

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So here it is how much you can lose in suction and airflow.
Let's take the same vacuum cleaner with the older 2200w motor and with the 650w motor.
Results are quite dramatic.

Loss in airflow 108 cfm to 63 cfm
Loss in suction 145 to 64 water lift

So I think that EU went too far limiting the motor wattage.


Mike


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Post# 370851 , Reply# 1   4/17/2017 at 06:33 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Yes I totally agree Mike. I don't think it's going to save much energy either. People will just use their lower power vacuums for a longer period of time to get the same amount of dirt up 🙄

They should keep it at 1600 w.

Wish we had left the EU already 😣


Post# 370852 , Reply# 2   4/17/2017 at 06:48 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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One question. How does the Vorwerk VK 200 get an A rating for performance on carpets? It only uses 100w on the recommended setting plus 50w for the PN motor.

Im very confused! 🤔


Post# 370853 , Reply# 3   4/17/2017 at 07:51 (184 days old) by Mike811 (Finland)        
Vorwerk VK200

mike811's profile picture
We could have 900 watt motors max, but every manufacturer wants A energy class. That means 700w or lower.
Vorwerk Kobold VK200 actually has a 700w motor. Airpath in it is very short and simple + it is bagged with a good powerhead. So A rating seems possible.


Post# 370854 , Reply# 4   4/17/2017 at 08:04 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

sebo4me's profile picture
It does have a 700w motor but 700w setting is for hard floors. The Auto setting uses 100w on carpets as your fellow Viking shows on his YouTube review 😀. That's an extremely low amount of power.

Have they lowered to maximum watts down to 900 watts already?

You're right about manufacturers wanting an A rating for energy. You'd think an A rating for performance would be more important. It is to me.


Post# 370855 , Reply# 5   4/17/2017 at 08:14 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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I very nearly bought a Vorwerk Vk150 yesterday. It was new for 380. But there was no warranty. That put me off. I think it's a fantastic machine though but I can get a Sebo Felix which has a similar build quality and performance for 200 with a 5 year warranty.
Seems the better option to me.


Post# 370869 , Reply# 6   4/17/2017 at 11:58 (184 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        
Vorwerk

madaboutsebo's profile picture
The Vorwerk Kobold VK200 has a triple A rating, not just for energy but cleaning performance and filtration too. Like Mike811 its probably achieved by the very short airpath and a good Powerhead (which has a thinner opening compared to previous Kobold powerheads) so it's possible that's how it achieves this rating.

The 900 watt EU limit comes into effect this September 2017.

Agree with you performance should be important as well as energy usage but it is great to see manufacturers trying to reduce energy used but still (or try!) achieving great performance.

Mark shame that Kobold VK150 didn't come with a warranty! It would put me off too if I'm honest! Like you say you can get a SEBO Felix for around 200 plus and get a full warranty. Plus the new Eco Felix comes with a 700watt motor. I've briefly used one very good, plus you don't get the heat exhaust like the other models! So you getting a Felix now?


Post# 370871 , Reply# 7   4/17/2017 at 12:11 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

sebo4me's profile picture
I recently got an E3 Premium. I really to get the Vorwerk. '-(

Might get a Felix sometime this year. :-)


Post# 370873 , Reply# 8   4/17/2017 at 12:13 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Wanted*

Post# 370880 , Reply# 9   4/17/2017 at 14:22 (184 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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Oooi would love an E3 Premium! It's a shame you didn't!

Cool, which Felix would you go for if you did? My Felix Classic is 10 years old this year!


Post# 370881 , Reply# 10   4/17/2017 at 14:40 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Happy birthday :-)

Love the E3 Premium. The floorhead feel like it's self propelled. It glides across the carpet effortlessly. Only paid 220 for it. It's a quality machine,it's a looker too 😁
I think I'd get the Felix Pet as it has better filtration than the other models. It has a thicker exhaust filter and gets an A rating.
What I liked about the Vorwerk was it's so light!

I want a lightweight upright.



Post# 370882 , Reply# 11   4/17/2017 at 15:07 (184 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
Thank you 😊

I only replaced both sets of filters 2 years ago and the brush bar last year!

Great to hear, the ET-1 head does feel like that easy to use and great performance. It's great on the Felix too. Bargain price you got there, it is a great looking machine!

The Felix Pet is a great choice. Yeah the new Eco one comes with a newer exhaust filter, wonder if it will be phased across the whole Felix range in time!

Yes the Vorwerk is light! Suppose the Felix is heavier as it has onboard tools and a heavy duty robust machine! Not that the Vorwerk isn't robust! Not many light weight bagged vacuums around....all mainly bagless light weight ones!


Post# 370883 , Reply# 12   4/17/2017 at 15:18 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Yes that's the problem. Everyone wants bagless. James is to blame for that!

Oh well I will make do with what I've got but I do get an urge for something new every now and then 😁

If you decide to get the VK 200 I'll buy your VK 150 😁





Post# 370885 , Reply# 13   4/17/2017 at 15:34 (184 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

madaboutsebo's profile picture
They sure do, I think slowly poeople are realising bagless isn't what it's cracked up to be! I think the bubble on bagless vacuums is starting to deflate very slowly! Time will tell!

Lol, same hear but I don't have the room... I'd love an X series at some point! Tempted to wait post September this year when 900 watt comes in! Not sure what will happen to the X series then!

Ok lol 😀


Post# 370886 , Reply# 14   4/17/2017 at 15:43 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

sebo4me's profile picture
They will make an eco x series probably. Wish they would bring something new out. It's been going for nearly 30 years now!

Post# 370888 , Reply# 15   4/17/2017 at 16:06 (184 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)        

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Maybe although they dropped the motor wattage to 1100 watts across the range back in 2014. Probably a new 'Eco' sub 900 watts!

True. It's their best selling model still I can't see it going anywhere soon though! Must be one of the longest running models of any vacuum! Probably have another update again, maybe the boost feature will be standard across the range!

I did wonder if the Evolution was a hint at a new X series but doesn't look like it!


Post# 370889 , Reply# 16   4/17/2017 at 16:26 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

sebo4me's profile picture
They are nearly as bad as Kirby for innovating!!!! 😁

Post# 370893 , Reply# 17   4/17/2017 at 17:02 (184 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH)        
Mike,

wyaple's profile picture
Did you notice that the lesser 650 Watt Philips is actually TWICE as efficient as the 2200 Watt model? Here's some efficiency numbers as measured via the hose end. Listed from WORST to BEST.

Hose CFM Comparisons

Philips Performer Pro 2200 Watts
108 CFM => 20.4 Watts per CFM

Dyson DC65 1246 Watts
78 CFM => 16.0 Watts per CFM

Electrolux Olympia One 996 Watts
95 CFM => 10.5 Watts per CFM

Philips Performer Expert 650 Watts
63 CFM => 10.3 Watts per CFM

Kirby Sentria II 816 Watts
120 CFM => 6.8 Watts per CFM

Kirby Heritage II Legend 674 Watts
106 CFM => 6.4 Watts per CFM

Kirby Gsix 685 Watts
108 CFM => 6.3 Watts per CFM

Thoughts?

Bill


Post# 370923 , Reply# 18   4/18/2017 at 00:44 (184 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

sebo4me's profile picture
It's good that the Philips Performer Expert 650 Watts is more efficient but not good that it only has 63 CFM compared to the 2200w that has 108 CFM.

2200w is an excessive amount of power I agree with that but I wish they would keep the maximum wattage to 1600 as it is now. You can make the vacuums more efficient but I don't think you will be able to get the same amount of airflow from such a low powered cylinder/canister vacuum. As I said previously it's just going to take longer to get the same clean which will use the same amount of energy defeating the object!


Post# 370946 , Reply# 19   4/18/2017 at 15:34 (183 days old) by n0oxy (Saint Louis Missouri, United States)        
new Henry

The new Henry vacuums use a 620 watt motor, but supposedly the performance is better than the 1200 watt model. I have the new 600 watt model, the suction and airflow are comparable to vacuums that use twice the power. One way to test how powerful a vacuum is is to see how fast it spins a turbo brush. While this may not tell you how well the vacuum will clean, it will give you some information about how much air the vacuum can move. The new Henry motor can spin the rug rat turbo brush as fast as my Sebo D1 and Miele C1 Olympus, both of these use motors that are around 1200 watts. So, it is possible to have good performance with a lower wattage motor but it does require some redesign. The new henry's are also very quiet, you can easily have a normal conversation while it's running.
Mike


Post# 371017 , Reply# 20   4/19/2017 at 02:11 (183 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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I knew when I said that Henry would come up :)

If any manufacturer can build a clean air vacuum cleaner with 100CFM or more at the end of the hose using 900w or less of power I will be very pleasantly surprised! :)





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