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Thread Number: 34206
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Rainbow E2 2-Speed Measurements |
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| Post# 370689 4/14/2017 at 11:02 (2,559 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
In searching around YouTube, I came across two videos that appear to depict an airflow and water lift measurement for the E2 2-Speed machines. These seem to be accurate and show the machine achieving:
77 CFM at the hose end (not the nozzle end) and 74" water lift at the canister base (not the hose end). If these measurements are approximately correct, what does everybody think about this level of performance for a modern Rainbow costing thousands? And if these measurements are incorrect, what should they be? Airflow Link: Water Lift Link: For comparison purposes, here's the same readings from my D4C SE PE: Water lift from base = 60" Airflow from hose end = 60 CFM So for the newer E2 2-Speed, that's an improvement of: 74" - 60" = 14" (23%) better at the base and 77 CFM - 60 CFM = 17 CFM (28%) better at the hose end. Quite a nice improvement from the switched reluctance motor! BUT, is this enough performance when other machines (read: cheap plastic bagged vacs) can do much better at a tiny fraction of the price? Bill | ||
| Post# 370691 , Reply# 1 4/14/2017 at 11:10 (2,559 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 370693 , Reply# 2 4/14/2017 at 11:20 (2,559 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Correction on my D4C SE PE's Airflow | ||
| Post# 370696 , Reply# 3 4/14/2017 at 11:30 (2,559 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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I would still like to own one though as it's something different. I've never used a water vac before. They are very well built from what I've seen of them. I've seen a strip down. It looks quality.
I have a question for you Bill. Cyclones severely restricted airflow. The Shark rotator scores a 2 on the Baird meter. Yet the CRI give it a silver award which is quite a high standard and in the UK it get a Big award for carpet pick up which is very good. How can it be getting such good ratings when the airflow is supposedly so poor? I'm confused! 🤔 | ||
| Post# 370697 , Reply# 4 4/14/2017 at 11:31 (2,559 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 370706 , Reply# 5 4/14/2017 at 14:09 (2,558 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Taking A Brief Look at CRI's Rating System, I Found This
So based on the photo, CRI lumps vacuums into three very unequal categories for soil removal and only two very broad categories for dust removal.
For soil removal, they have these percentages: Bronze = 40%-49% Silver = 50%-54% Gold = 55% or More I have a BIG PROBLEM with those insanely non-linear and broad categories. Soil Removal Example #1: Vac #1 achieves 50% soil removal while Vac #2 achieves 99% soil removal. CRI would only rate Vac #1 as "Silver" and Vac #2 as "Gold" even though Vac #2 is nearly twice as good. Soil Removal Example #2: Vac #1 achieves 54% soil removal while Vac #2 achieves 55% soil removal. CRI would still rate Vac #1 as "Silver" and Vac #2 as "Gold" even though Vac #2 is only better by an insignificant 1% difference, which isn't statistically significant. Conclusion: For soil removal, CRI can't tell the difference between a vac that does 44% better (the difference between 99% and 55%) while a measly 1% difference suddenly raises a rating from Silver to Gold. That is far too inaccurate a rating system for me. Bill 
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| Post# 370708 , Reply# 6 4/14/2017 at 14:19 (2,558 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 370712 , Reply# 7 4/14/2017 at 16:02 (2,558 days old) by kenkart () | ||
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Rainbow The new ones are much better than the older ones, but still are PLASTIC...Is there no one who can build a quality metal machine anymore!If I am asked to pay 2000 or more it better be metal. | ||
| Post# 370717 , Reply# 8 4/14/2017 at 16:31 (2,558 days old) by jimjimmunster (Hammond, Ind.) | ||
I bet my C would pull more.... | ||
| Post# 370753 , Reply# 9 4/14/2017 at 21:56 (2,558 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota) | ||
This is odd
I've got one of the Black E2 rainbows and mine with it's new style hose has never registered more than 2.5/10 BUT when i put an older style electric hose on it it pulled either a 4 or 4.5 at the hose end. It pulls even more with a straight suction hose and it leads me to believe that either the electric have a narrower internal diameter or they just have a rougher interior.
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| Post# 370773 , Reply# 11 4/15/2017 at 07:36 (2,558 days old) by Mike811 (Finland) | ||
Not good... | ||
| Post# 370778 , Reply# 12 4/15/2017 at 09:50 (2,558 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
The Baird meter is an extremely inaccurate way to measure anything. It was designed to make a Kirby look good and everything else look bad. I consider about useless.
They make digital air speed (wind speed) meters that are extremely accurate. For a true reading of airflow on any vacuum, you need a digital air speed meter. It will give the reading in MPH or Nautical MPH or CFM, which ever setting you choose. The Quality Assurance Department at Tacony uses them to measure the airflow through new batches of motors received at the factory, in addition to the engineering department's use of those meters to determine airflow through a complete machine, both with a clean as well as a dirty bag (half full bag of 'test dirt' from the cleaning ability tests). | ||
| Post# 370783 , Reply# 13 4/15/2017 at 10:44 (2,558 days old) by Mike811 (Finland) | ||
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Manufacturer specs VS baird air flow meter | ||
| Post# 370787 , Reply# 14 4/15/2017 at 12:31 (2,557 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Mikko, | ||
| Post# 370788 , Reply# 15 4/15/2017 at 12:49 (2,557 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Reply to Chris Post #10
It makes perfect sense that a 1993 Rainbow D4C SE with the older spider, older non-trigger hose, older motor, etc., would have 5 CFM less at the hose than the 1997 D4C SE PE. Slightly different parts and another 4 years of age takes it's toll. Also, don't discount manufacturing tolerances. If a factory makes 10,000 of something, they won't all measure exactly the same.
1993 D4C SE Rainbow D4C SE water lift from base = 58" lift Rainbow D4C SE water lift from hose = 54" lift Rainbow D4C SE (measured at body)= 80.2 CFM = Baird 4.5 Rainbow D4C SE (measured at hose)= 60.1 CFM = Baird 2.0 1997 D4C SE PE Rainbow D4C SE PE water lift from base = 60" lift Rainbow D4C SE PE water lift from hose = 54" lift Rainbow D4C SE PE (measured at body) = 87.4 CFM = Baird 5.5 Rainbow D4C SE PE (measured at hose) = 65.2 CFM = Baird 2.75 Bill | ||
| Post# 370790 , Reply# 16 4/15/2017 at 13:45 (2,557 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 370792 , Reply# 17 4/15/2017 at 14:15 (2,557 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Here's What The GM8901 Digital Anemometer Looks Like | ||
| Post# 370820 , Reply# 19 4/16/2017 at 09:29 (2,557 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 370821 , Reply# 20 4/16/2017 at 09:49 (2,557 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
 Andrew,
Everyone I know says the Kirby Sentria - Avalir is the best performing vacuum cleaner on Frieze carpet by far. Either your Avalir was not adjusted properly or something was wrong with it. You can search the Vacuumland archives and you will find that Kirby beats everything else on Frieze carpet.
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| Post# 370824 , Reply# 21 4/16/2017 at 11:30 (2,557 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Reply to Post #18
Andrew,
Are you sure you understand the differences between CFM, airflow and suction? Your post seems to get them mixed up. EXAMPLE #1: "CFM Really Doesn't Mean Much" RESPONSE: You do know that CFM is airflow, correct? Suction equates to water lift. EXAMPLE #2: "A good powerhead and good airflow will overcome issues with suction everytime." RESPONSE: That sentence actually claims good airflow is better than good suction. Which is correct, but the Kirby has the best airflow out there. It sounds like your new carpet is quite the nightmare. Were you aware that cleaning it would be such a hassle? It may be that the backing doesn't allow high airflow and is roughly the equivalent to a rubber backed mat, which all high airflow machines will have issues with. If so, you would need a low airflow, high agitation machine that "floats" on top of the carpet, never making a good seal to the fibers. There are many machines out there these days that fit that bill. Bill | ||
| Post# 370843 , Reply# 22 4/16/2017 at 21:57 (2,556 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest) | ||
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I knew the older Rainbow had a cfm of 60. I had just assumed they had increased their performance by now. The less expensive Sirena moves 90 cfm. | ||
| Post# 370846 , Reply# 23 4/17/2017 at 01:22 (2,556 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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Sirena
Canister with Power Nozzle Complete System: 10.9-Amp. (1285 Watts) Suction Motor: Italian Amatek Motor (1200 Watts) Revolving Brush: 12" Wide with Two Rows of Bristles Brush Driven By: Electric Motor in Power Nozzle Belt Type: Flat Stretch Type Belt Suction: 86.3" of Water Lift Air Flow: 63.556 CFM | ||
| Post# 370847 , Reply# 24 4/17/2017 at 01:29 (2,556 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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Thst | ||
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