Thread Number: 34145  /  Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
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Post# 370048   4/4/2017 at 20:10 (252 days old) by godfreys_guy (Melbourne, Australia)        

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Hi Guys,

I was thinking today while using my e2 black as to why more manufacturers haven't gone down the path of digital/brushless motors...

Rainbow, Vorwerk and Dyson are really to my understanding the only ones that have jumped into this (although Dyson only uses them in the hand helds and in japan only cannisters).

I wonder if this is because a lot of people burn out motors in their vacuum cleaners, it isn't all that expensive to repair but do you think this holds a key to why a lot of other manufacturers haven't followed suit... I mean most washing machines now use brushless motors.





Post# 370051 , Reply# 1   4/4/2017 at 20:56 (252 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH)        
Let's See, How About The Expense?

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How much is it to repair the control boards for these new fangled whiz bang motors, especially in Rainbows?

Plus, why mess with 100+ year old reliable technology? I can get a clean air Hoover that does 80 CFM at the nozzle for $70 delivered.

At Wal-Mart near Christmas time, I can get el-cheapo bag less machines for $29 with a warranty.

All of the machines I grab and restore have a nearly perfectly working motors. They are thrown out because of clogs, a cut cord, broken belts or most recently, bad smells.

Bill


Post# 370053 , Reply# 2   4/4/2017 at 21:09 (252 days old) by texaskirbyguy (Plano, TX)        

As mentioned, expense and complexity. Brushless motors are DC and require rectifiers and other electronics to run them.
AC/DC brush-type motors, when built properly, can last for many years, if not decades with proper use. For example, my Kiby Omega used up 2/3 of its brushes in 20 years of service (one heavy cleaning per month). I just restored my sister's 1985 Kitchenaid mixer which used up only 1/2 of its brushes through use in a bakery.
Now if the motor or equipment was poorly engineered, they can burn up in no time even with normal use.
Washing machines used to use big AC induction motors before all the HE regulations came about. Those motors usually outlived the rest of the machine and were natually brushless. The new machines require motors precisely controled, so they are DC brushless types, and have delicate circuitry driving them. I will stick to my never-broken 1995 Kenmore direct-drive top loader...


Post# 370054 , Reply# 3   4/4/2017 at 21:09 (252 days old) by kenkart (Mocksville, NC)        
I never saw a washer motor that wasn;t

brushless, at least in the US they have been since the early wringer washers, the new motors that are used in machines such as Rainbows require specialized training to service them, for instance, you have to wear a ground strap and stand on a special pad when disassembling the motor lest a static spark fry the circuit board!!!very costly...

Post# 370069 , Reply# 4   4/5/2017 at 06:03 (252 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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You don't have to wear an anti static strap. There's a video on YouTube a guy in a service shop servicing an E2 motor. He has done loads of them, never worn an anti static strap and had no problems.
The service procedure isn't that complicated. I will upload the video

I've built quite a few computers over the years. They say to wear an anti static strap when touching the motherboard and processor. I've never done so and have had no problems with static discharge 😀


Post# 370070 , Reply# 5   4/5/2017 at 06:06 (252 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Here is the video. He services 2 Rainbows. The E2 is halfway into it.

There's quite a bit of dirt getting to the motor. Maybe water isn't such a great filter media.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sebo4me's LINK


Post# 370078 , Reply# 6   4/5/2017 at 09:03 (252 days old) by Electroluxxxx (cortland, NY)        

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All I do is repair rainbows day in and day out. I will say that depending on the amount of use the machines have A lot of the E-series that I get in for repair usually have about a quarter of their brushes left most of the D4 Machines that I get in have about three quarters to a quarter left on carbon brushes. With the E-series machines we have had a lot of issues with armatures however with the new brushless motors I have never had one fail. It is very uncommon for a brushless motor to go bad. As far as the controller goes , once in a while I will get a machine in with the bad controller. 7 times out of 10 it will normally be a thermistor on the board which is easily replaced by soldering a new one on which is not a very costly repair. Rexair does recommend using an antistatic mat or strap. I have an antistatic benchtop but then again that doesn't always stop static electricity We have never fried a controller unit or for that matter circuitboard of any kind due to static electricity. I will say that the brushless motors have proven to be extremely reliable with little to no flaws.

Post# 370082 , Reply# 7   4/5/2017 at 10:08 (252 days old) by dysonman1 (Rolla, Missouri)        

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The brushless Rainbow E2 motors were designed to run constantly as an air purifier. For the past 3 years, my black 75th Anniversary Edition Rainbow has run, with distilled water, on low speed from October through the end of March. With the Rainbow germicide in the water pan as well. Have now woke up with a dry mouth, nor had a cold or the flu, in three years.

The Dyson DC22 with brushless motor was sold in the United States. Again, that machine could be left 'on' forever and not burn out. Runs quiet and smooth. The only down side is the rather narrow electric power nozzle.

The new Delphin has a brushless motor as well.

So they are becoming more and more accepted for use in high end vacuums.


Post# 370083 , Reply# 8   4/5/2017 at 10:21 (252 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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I think a narrow Power Nozzle is a good thing, it's easier to manoeuvre around obstacles. You only really need a 15" power nozzle in larger homes.

I would like to try out a Rainbow sometime.


Post# 370097 , Reply# 9   4/5/2017 at 11:43 (252 days old) by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
I was

obsolete myself once. Got traded in for a new model.

Post# 370098 , Reply# 10   4/5/2017 at 11:49 (252 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)        

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Poor you ☺

Post# 370103 , Reply# 11   4/5/2017 at 14:08 (252 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
Mike,

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that is a T-shirt DYING to be made!
I feel your pain, lol been there, done that, had the Dr.'s couch.


Post# 370104 , Reply# 12   4/5/2017 at 14:18 (252 days old) by luxkid1980 (Richmond, Virginia)        

I wonder how the Rainbow compares as an air purifier to say something like one of those large Honeywell HEPA air purifiers? I have a Honeywell in my home that is run 24/7 on low and it seems to filter the air well. I replace the HEPA filter about every yeah.




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