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Thread Number: 33786
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Why I'm Concerned About The Future Of Kirby |
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| Post# 367029 2/17/2017 at 19:28 (2,616 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
I'm concerned for Kirby. This is my concern. Why should people buy Avalirs? I mean, you can go on Craigslist and get a G7 for $150. Kirby really outdid themselves with the G3 and by the time the G6 came out they had everything figured out. The Sentria was the best of the G Series. They have been using the same mechanics for more than 20 years. I hope Kirby will release a radically new design, while still retaining the classic Kirby design.
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| Post# 367048 , Reply# 1 2/17/2017 at 23:37 (2,616 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
I hear you
Kirby has always taken the notion of evolutionary design changes to the extreme and when you couple that with the fact that their machines are damn near indestructible, it has set up a bizarre dynamic in which one of Kirby's biggest competitors is itself. And when you take their horrible high-pressure salespeople into account, it's a wonder anybody ever buys a new one. Why put yourself through all that to pay $2,000 for a new machine when you can get one that is functionally equivalent to it for less than a tenth the price and skip the arm twisting.
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| Post# 367065 , Reply# 3 2/18/2017 at 09:24 (2,616 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
In general, no one wakes up and says "today I'm buying a Kirby". The way to sell a new Kirby is in the home - so the customer cannot 'shop' other models. There are only two machines, the old one the customer has been using, and the new Kirby. If Kirby were sold at retail, like other sweepers, I can't imagining anyone choosing it over a much less expensive vacuum. So, in a way, Kirby doesn't HAVE to change anything too much. The method by which its sold precludes the need for more 'user friendly' engineering. You know the old vacuum salesman's saying: If I can't dazzle them with dirt, baffle them with B.S.
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| Post# 367066 , Reply# 4 2/18/2017 at 09:33 (2,616 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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Well..
In this day and age, everyone does everything online. People look for deals online. So a person will Google "Kirby Vacuum Cleaner Reviews". When they see all the good reviews, they go to eBay. There they type "Kirby Vacuum Works Great!" They either find a deal or go onto Craigslist or LetGo. They end up with a functionally identical
machine for around $90. When a Kirby salesman comes and offers them a similar machine for $1200, people will decline. | ||
| Post# 367069 , Reply# 5 2/18/2017 at 10:45 (2,616 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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I wouldn't worry. Kirby know what they are doing. Look how long they have been in business. They are doing something very right. | ||
| Post# 367074 , Reply# 7 2/18/2017 at 12:23 (2,616 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
 Kirby is not worried. If they were, they wouldn't be churning out several thousand Avalirs a week like they currently do.
The door to door sales method works very well for them. When a potential customer is dazzled by watching the salesman put the Kirby through it's paces and then comparing it's cleaning ability to the customers present machine, it's very hard for them to resist especially when the salesman presents the available and attractive financing package that Kirby offers.
My daughter-in-law experienced this sales method first hand. She used to work in a very successful Kirby dealership here in the Boston suburb of Woburn MA where I live. She spent most of her 40 hour work week setting appointments for potential customers in the Boston Metro area whom she cold called or had responded to newspaper and Radio ads offering them a free carpet shampoo of any room in their home if they would simply observe a demo of the Kirby Sentria Home Care System being used to shampoo their carpet. This is a very effective method of selling Kirby's. When the salesman knocks on the door, the person(s) inside are already expecting them for their free carpet cleaning.
This is still a very busy dealership that employs 4 salesman, 2 service technicians and 2 ladies manning the phones.
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| Post# 367130 , Reply# 9 2/19/2017 at 09:45 (2,615 days old) by fantomfan57 (Central Texas) | ||
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I agree.... I noticed they got bigger and heavier. So they probably listened to consumers and added the transmission....which made them bigger and heavier...but easier to use. When they added the transmission, they added more parts to wear down. I still find them cumbersome. | ||
| Post# 368682 , Reply# 11 3/19/2017 at 10:43 (2,587 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA) | ||
The Kirby dealer near me hires 24/7 and they take vans full of their "employees" (independent contractors) and drops them all off in neighborhoods and sends them off to knock on doors.
The people who buy Avalirs new are the people who currently use 6 month old $50 Dirt Devils, Bissells, and Hoovers. Kirby dealers would have a hard time convincing anyone who currently uses a high-quality vacuum to switch. If someone has been using their Aerus vacuum 3 times a week for 6 years with no problems, why would they buy a new Avalir? They wouldn't. People who have been buying a new $50 vacuum twice a year are Kirby's #1 customers. | ||
| Post# 368684 , Reply# 12 3/19/2017 at 11:23 (2,587 days old) by Caligula (Wallingford, Connecticut) | ||
Former Kirby training manager.  | ||
| Post# 368702 , Reply# 14 3/19/2017 at 13:47 (2,587 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 368710 , Reply# 15 3/19/2017 at 14:31 (2,586 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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Yes, we live in a germaphobic society that in the end just makes people sicker because they fail to build up their immune systems. I personally have no problem with used vacuum cleaners; in fact, I don't think I've ever owned but two brand new ones. At least two of the ones I have now are trash rescues.
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| Post# 369249 , Reply# 16 3/26/2017 at 10:00 (2,580 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
Unfortunately, Kirby has gotten more mileage out of the Generation Series platform than Jimmy Buffet has gotten out of "Margaritaville." It's going on 27 years with only minor subtle changes. Someone on here at one point posted prototype drawings of the proposed Avalir, showing a rear-mounted bag and a switch in the handle. Other than a redesigned shampooer and trim color change I don't see anything radically different from the Sentria II. No, Kirby has milked the Generation platform long enough, the Classic line only lasted 20. Maybe a non-powerdrive model with a smaller head (ala retro-500 series) would be the way to go. Aerus Electrolux offers different models, maybe Kirby should diversify also.
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| Post# 369252 , Reply# 17 3/26/2017 at 10:50 (2,580 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 369255 , Reply# 18 3/26/2017 at 12:18 (2,580 days old) by rvarley (illinois) | ||
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And let's not forget what a bother it is to use the attachments. I have an old Kirby, pre-tech drive (560?) and it does a great job cleaning, but it's a bear to push and does not go under low items well. | ||
| Post# 369360 , Reply# 19 3/27/2017 at 20:41 (2,578 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
I'm not worried about the future of Kirby, I think that company is still doing well. I do however question with these other similar companies like Aerus, Filter Queen, Rainbow, etc. Reason for that is because I wonder if they are going out of business anytime soon like what happened with Silver King.
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| Post# 369388 , Reply# 21 3/28/2017 at 09:10 (2,578 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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The biggest challenge to a door-to-door sales model is the increasing paranoia in our society. While not totally unjustified, people today increasingly assume anyone they don't know is a potential threat. I used to work with a lady who, if you went to her home after dusk and her husband wasn't there to answer the door, would come to the door with a loaded .38 in her hand and make sure you saw it. She didn't brandish it in your face, but she didn't hide it behind her back, either. That's a big contrast from back in the '70s, when my mom would listen to sales pitches from the likes of the Fuller Brush man, the Cutco knife man, and at least one Kirby salesman out of a sense of being polite as well as to break the monotony of the day, but I'm sure that doesn't happen anymore. They used to say a man's home was his castle but now it's more like his fortress.
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| Post# 369398 , Reply# 22 3/28/2017 at 11:02 (2,578 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
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| Post# 369430 , Reply# 24 3/28/2017 at 17:28 (2,577 days old) by crazykirbydude (Lexington, KY) | ||
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myvacsrock...
I do not work at a vacuum store YET, but I do know all of the ones in my area sell used machines. But I do agree, we do live in a germaphobic society. But I find it VERY ironic that the people who don't want other people's "filth" in their houses are the same people who buy the filthy, cheap, filter-in-cup Wally World bagless vacuums. Besides, household dirt is usually composed of the same things. Hair, sand, soil, food particles, dander, dust mites and eggs, pollen, large particles and damaged carpet fibers. What people don't realize is the crap they suck up in their homes is the more or less the same as other people in the area. A vacuum that is "used" makes no difference as in the first few months, the crappy bagless PlastiVac is already MORE filthy than that used Kirby. I bet if someone bought both a Kirby and a PlastiVac on the same day, used them for, say, two years in identical houses. After two years, the Kirby and PlastiVac would be put side by side and measured to see what vacuum is filthier.
Just my two cents, minus tax Adin | ||
Post# 369468 , Reply# 25 3/28/2017 at 23:57 (2,577 days old) by Durango159  (State College, PA) |
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| Post# 369483 , Reply# 26 3/29/2017 at 09:27 (2,577 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
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| Post# 369526 , Reply# 28 3/29/2017 at 22:40 (2,576 days old) by Oreck_XL (Brooklyn, New York 11211) | ||
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It may be true that Kirby has to find a machine that performs better than the Generation line, but they HAVE the prototype drawings. R&D needs to get the new model into production because truth be told, isn't 27 years using the same platform long enough? With regards to the G-series that ship has sailed. In the New York area the number of Kirby distributors is dwindling not just because the economy is down let's face it the Generation is more bulky than its predecessor, it had to be because of the Tech-Drive. I just feel Kirby is shooting themselves in the foot by not offering a lighter non power drive version to customers who want an all-aluminum machine without all the bulk. In the interim, why not offer customers who want it, a smaller 12 inch head like they had right up to the Legend II?
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| Post# 369538 , Reply# 29 3/30/2017 at 05:50 (2,576 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 369551 , Reply# 31 3/30/2017 at 09:04 (2,576 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina) | ||
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| Post# 369557 , Reply# 33 3/30/2017 at 10:09 (2,576 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 369558 , Reply# 34 3/30/2017 at 10:22 (2,576 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest) | ||
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Don't hold your breath It's only happened twice in 100 years.
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| Post# 369559 , Reply# 35 3/30/2017 at 10:31 (2,576 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 369563 , Reply# 36 3/30/2017 at 10:47 (2,576 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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If you ever go on Youtube, and watch the training videos taken at a distributor's office - and listen to what the salesforce is trained to do and say - you'd understand why there doesn't have to ever be a 'new' model. Also, why they don't need a 'smaller, lighter machine'. The salesmen last such a short time, they'd NEVER be able to keep track of two models. They can barely keep track of the shampooer, zip brush, and renovator attachments. Most of the time, the salesmen only drag in the one box. And very, very few Kirby salesmen are 'well trained' any longer. Most Kirby salesmen were out of work and desperate for a job when they read the ad for 'set up and display' - which is Kirbyspeak for 'commissioned salesman'. They only know a little bit more than the consumer does.
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| Post# 369564 , Reply# 37 3/30/2017 at 10:54 (2,576 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff) | ||
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| Post# 369679 , Reply# 41 3/31/2017 at 16:59 (2,574 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
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Harley,
To clarify, Scott & Fetzer has made 2 total redesigns of the Kirby Vacuum cleaner.
First generation was the 500 series that ended in 1969 with the D80. Second generation was the Classic series which began in 1970 with the Classic I ended with the Legend II in 1993. Third generation is the G series that began in 1993 with the G3 (so named because it was the beginning of the third generation) and is still running today with the Avalir.
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| Post# 369696 , Reply# 42 3/31/2017 at 20:10 (2,574 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
Umm,
Are you sure of those dates? According to Kirby's own website, the first G3 was 1990 and the first Legend II was introduced in 1989. The 500 series ended with the 562 in 1965.
Bill CLICK HERE TO GO TO wyaple's LINK | ||
| Post# 369719 , Reply# 43 4/1/2017 at 02:41 (2,574 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest) | ||
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Yes Sptyks 2 redesigns in100 years. All evolutionary to the original design. I stand by my statement. See reply 34. | ||
| Post# 369725 , Reply# 44 4/1/2017 at 04:12 (2,574 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
I've often thought Kirby should adopt a similar approach to Vorwerk. They work on scheduled, requested appointments only and do "sales parties" where the host gets a free gift even if nobody buys one. They don't resort to high pressure sales tactics and offer the cleaner in package bundles rather than trying to negotiate a price. More of a "this is the machine, this is what it does, this is why it's good, this is how much it costs, the end" approach.
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| Post# 369733 , Reply# 47 4/1/2017 at 12:07 (2,574 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH) | ||
Their carpet tool leaves a lot to be desired, even if only used on area rugs and under beds. Too much dead space on each side. No edge cleaning whatsoever. I bought a separate brush for hard surface floors and actually use it on my throw rugs as well. You have to learn how to use it on the throw rugs, but once you get the knack, it does pretty well....
PR-21 Bud | ||
| Post# 369734 , Reply# 48 4/1/2017 at 12:13 (2,574 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
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| Post# 369750 , Reply# 49 4/1/2017 at 18:54 (2,573 days old) by wyaple (Pickerington, OH) | ||
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Looking at a screenshot of the timeline | ||
| Post# 369755 , Reply# 50 4/1/2017 at 20:05 (2,573 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
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| Post# 370424 , Reply# 51 4/10/2017 at 12:37 (2,565 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA) | ||
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I'd still rather have the Ultimate G Diamond Edition than any of the other newer models. It had a delicate setting which is super nice sometimes, and besides the delicate switch and a few cosmetic changes (and maybe the mini emptor) they haven't changed much since then.
Of course, they've hardly changed since the G3 but I do like the hi/lo switch. | ||
| Post# 370432 , Reply# 52 4/10/2017 at 15:06 (2,564 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine) | ||
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Myles,
I don't know where you've been hanging around, but there's been many changes to the Kirby G series over the years.
The Low Speed switch was removed from all G series machines after the Diamond edition because it caused too many burnt out motors, so Kirby removed it for good from the Sentria onward. | ||
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