Thread Number: 30785
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
New EU vacuums and half the suction |
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Post# 340618 , Reply# 1   1/4/2016 at 10:26 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340619 , Reply# 2   1/4/2016 at 10:37 (3,006 days old) by Mike81 ()   |   | |
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Exactly. For example Electrolux UltraOne 427w > 207w. That's more than half the drop in suction. |
Post# 340620 , Reply# 3   1/4/2016 at 10:45 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340624 , Reply# 5   1/4/2016 at 12:42 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340629 , Reply# 6   1/4/2016 at 13:07 (3,006 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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But does it really matter? It doesn't matter to me because, well, the X uprights and indeed the Sebo vacuums I have BAR one K1 Pet model all have energy efficient motors anyway. Even my Vax VCU02 upright / Hoover Signature in the U.S also has a energy friendly motor.
For years buyers have been led to believe suction as its most strongest is better. Even Electrolux and Hoover back in the day constantly used higher power to sell on their flagship ranges. Hoover at least had one principle going for them by the time they had “invented” the domestic upright vacuum with the beater bar. What most buyers don’t tend to realise is that they don't need to throw out their existing vacuum just because it may have a higher motor that is now classed as energy inefficient by EU law. Not all vacuums perform the same way with these new EU law passed motors in my experience. Air watts are a fad Benny - they not usually tested by the motor but at the hose end which can decrease over time due to the flow rate. |
Post# 340635 , Reply# 7   1/4/2016 at 13:28 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340642 , Reply# 9   1/4/2016 at 13:57 (3,006 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 340647 , Reply# 11   1/4/2016 at 15:05 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340652 , Reply# 12   1/4/2016 at 15:28 (3,006 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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For how long and on what kind of debris? See, it is impossible. Just as it is impossible to rely on these air watts stats at the very least.
That X4 that you love so much - it has a far lower rate of power than a Hoover Purepower 2100 watt upright = and yet you'll know how well the bags fill and last for. It doesn't come down to having highest suction power. |
Post# 340654 , Reply# 13   1/4/2016 at 15:39 (3,006 days old) by delaneymeegan (Mary Richards lived here)   |   | |
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I'm thinking this is going to be a case of less is MORE. Why? 1. Just having super suction doesn't mean you can clean better. What's important is getting a clean house, not a vacuum with more suction. If I can get my house clean with no vacuum at all, that's even better. 2. Higher wattage motors make more noise. Not desirable. 3. Stronger suction motors can damage the bags and the pores of the bag would become clogged easier and possibly explode. 4. Stronger motor moves more air. More EXHAUST air being pushed out the other end of the machine means more air turbulence in the room which can cause MORE dust in the room. 5. with stronger suction, dirt and debri flies through the hose faster and when it abruptly lands in the bag can enter at such a fast rate, it can damage the bag. 6. Motors that aren't spinning as fast do not wear down the carbon brushes as fast and the motors will last longer. Some vacuums have such strong motors that the manufacturer has literally had to put holes in the body of the machine to allow air in to keep the motor from burning out. I'm referring here to a Kenmore canister from the early 1980s. I noticed there is literally a 3/8 hole hidden in the bottom corner, toward the front. When you have a motor rated at 4 h.p., which is double power of motors from the 70s, but you have the same hose size, something has to give. But when it's running, you can hear the annoying sound or whistle of the air from that hole. In the U.S., I watched in the 80s as the vacuum makers got into this pathetic h.p. competiion starting in about 1983. Each year the vacs increased about 2/10s of a horse power to the point where in the 90s they were at 5 h.p. It's not necessary. |
Post# 340657 , Reply# 14   1/4/2016 at 15:54 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340658 , Reply# 15   1/4/2016 at 16:04 (3,006 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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There are a few good points in what you’ve said, Delaney. However there are a few points I’d like to make.
Higher wattage motors don’t always make more noise - depends on if the brand has put in noise insulation in or actually produced a quieter motor in the first place. Strong and weak suction can still destroy a paper bag. One of the reasons to why so many brands now offer the synthetic material fleece type bags - they are less likely to burst and being electrostatic means the airflow is maintained through the bag with dirt and dust held back. Lots of brands have an air valve relief hole on the back of the upright OR a canister vac. It is there to stop the strain on the motor if the bag gets clogged, not necessarily having strong motors. |
Post# 340661 , Reply# 16   1/4/2016 at 16:07 (3,006 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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The question is, how much suction does it actually take to clean the surface?
Let's not forget that we managed perfectly well with 250w Hoover Juniors and 550w Electrolux 500's & Twin Turbo's for years, all of which clean perfectly well. When using both as straight suction, there is no noticeable cleaning performance between my 2200w Miele S5 and my 700w Electro Comfort. So that's 1500w of wasted power as the extra suction doesn't add any cleaning advantage. Equally, my new 620w Henry cleans far better than my old 1200w Henry, largely due to the redesigned floortool. We've also has numerous reports on here too of how well the new 700w Sebo Felix models perform. |
Post# 340663 , Reply# 17   1/4/2016 at 16:12 (3,006 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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Turbo500, that's exactly what I asked in message #4 |
Post# 340671 , Reply# 19   1/4/2016 at 17:19 (3,006 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)   |   | |
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Well we have the wonderful EU to thank for this. As we know, unelected bureaucrats should indeed be telling us what watts the motors in our vacuums have!
Of course it isnt as black and white as that but the immediate impact is yes, suction has decreased overall. I am all for a better designed vacuum, better floorheads and an advancement in motor technology, i mean i dont know why manufacturers aren't getting on the brushless motor bandwagon. The washing machine industry is. |
Post# 340674 , Reply# 21   1/4/2016 at 19:08 (3,006 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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I don’t see what the different is though Mike.
There have always been loud and cheap bagged AND bagless vacuums. Take my Hoover TeliosPlus. It has a 2300 watt motor. It is very loud to use. Compared to my previous Miele S5211 which had a 2200 watt motor - quiet to use and even on the highest setting it wasn’t as painful to my ears as the Hoover TeliosPlus and a model before the EU law came in. Though motor sound in decibels are measured by the EU label, they are not given a particular statistic in order to pass what is acceptable and what isn’t - unlike the other tests for suction on hard floors and carpets. |
Post# 340677 , Reply# 23   1/4/2016 at 19:55 (3,006 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)   |   | |
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I think what U need there in Europe is a good old vintage American Electrolux like a Model G, 1205 or Super J; I bet they'll outclean anything made today Do U have that kind of machines there, but under a different name? |
Post# 340680 , Reply# 26   1/4/2016 at 20:18 (3,006 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Yes but respectively in the U.S Canisters come with a PN as standard usually. That's more noise to factor into the equation.
Noise factor hasn't always been such a great marketing trick that every brand show; only Miele are probably one of the more famous brands for making adverts featuring the noise of their motors. It has only been in recent times that other brands are showing off quiet vacuums. A good old vintage Electrolux or similar might be welcomed in the UK and Europe, but it has to be cost effective. |
Post# 340685 , Reply# 28   1/5/2016 at 01:12 (3,006 days old) by delaneymeegan (Mary Richards lived here)   |   | |
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Sebofan-
"Lots of brands have an air valve relief hole on the back of the upright OR a canister vac. It is there to stop the strain on the motor if the bag gets clogged, not necessarily having strong motors. " That sounds like a good idea and, an option I've not seen in the U.S. Turbofan- "Let's not forget that we managed perfectly well with 250w Hoover Juniors and 550w Electrolux 500's & Twin Turbo's for years, all of which clean perfectly well." Exactly ! and "... redesigned floortool. " Very true. Theres two areas to a functional vacuum. One is the suction. The other is the tools used for grooming carpet and upholstery that lift the dirt to make it available for the suction to wisk into the machine. Even a meager suction motor can do a good job with a well equipped PN or floor tool. NoOxy- ".... what kind of motor was used in vacuums such as the Electrolux 1205" It was most likely 8-9 amp. When I bought my Ultralux Classic, the last of the metal canisters, in 1993, I asked the salesperson what the H.P. was. As I mentioned earlier, at that time most vacuums were being labeled with the H.P. The Salesperson said it had the equivalent of a 2.2 h.p. motor. His response, when I naively said "That's kind of low, isn't it?" was, "It doesn't need any more than that" and, he was right. Though at the time, I didn't fully get it. My Ultralux Classic has a 9 amp suction motor, and when you factor in the pn, it totals 11 amps, according to the label. |
Post# 340687 , Reply# 29   1/5/2016 at 02:59 (3,006 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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The 1200w Henry had a very poor floorhead there was a lot of room for improvement there! Not so much room for improvement with the Miele or Sebo floorheads.
The Hoover Junior had a direct air motor which doesn't need as much power as a clean air motor cause it produces more airflow at the floorhead. I will put my 2200w Miele S8 up against one of the 800w Eco models and we will see which one cleans better :) |
Post# 340708 , Reply# 31   1/5/2016 at 11:19 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340710 , Reply# 33   1/5/2016 at 11:45 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340711 , Reply# 34   1/5/2016 at 11:59 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340712 , Reply# 35   1/5/2016 at 12:03 (3,005 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)   |   | |
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Watts are watts no matter what the voltage is.
If volts X amps = watts, Then: A 1200 watt vacuum in the UK is equal in power to a 1200 watt vacuum in the U.S. It's the amperage that changes. A 1200 watt cleaner in the U.S. is rated at 10 amps at 120V but in the UK where voltage is 240V that same 1200 watt cleaner is rated at 5 amps.
GOT IT? |
Post# 340713 , Reply# 36   1/5/2016 at 12:17 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340714 , Reply# 37   1/5/2016 at 12:17 (3,005 days old) by mike81 ()   |   | |
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My honest opinion is that 1200w would be reasonable limit. 2200w is "a bit" overkill. You just create huge amount of heat. With 1200w over 300 aw is possible. 800w is a bit too low. |
Post# 340715 , Reply# 38   1/5/2016 at 12:25 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340717 , Reply# 39   1/5/2016 at 12:34 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340720 , Reply# 40   1/5/2016 at 13:17 (3,005 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Isnt there a little bit of hypocrisy going on here?
All of a sudden 2200 watt vacuums are really bad. You had your choice at the time of purchase going with 2000 watt vacuums, or 1600 watts or even lower than that. There's simply nothing wrong with these vacuums other than the fact that they have ALL been sold to the buyer on the belief that suction will be more powerful. Even U.S brands do the same on higher suction power claims - this isn't just a European thing. The reality though is that as mentioned we've done well with vacuums with lower power since they were invented. |
Post# 340723 , Reply# 41   1/5/2016 at 13:25 (3,005 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340746 , Reply# 42   1/5/2016 at 20:23 (3,005 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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You can still get a clean home regardless with a low suction vacuum. The SEBO C series for example had a 1500 watt motor and was perfectly acceptable. Even before SEBO, vintage vacs like Electrolux, Hoover and other major brands all offered 800 watts, some were even 500 watts. But that was back in the day without HEPA filters and other features.
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Post# 340771 , Reply# 44   1/6/2016 at 04:20 (3,004 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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I've got a vintage Hoover 417 cylinder with a 550w motor that cleans better than my neighbours modern high powered Vax pet thing. Why? Decent suction coupled with a well designed floortool.
Let's not forget that prior to the new legislation, the Sebo X1.1 was 1150w and the original X series was 800w. Both still cleaned equally as well as the 1300w X4 AND considerably better than a crappo 2000w Hoover Purepower. We also have had good reports about the 700w Felix from members on here and when I tried one in John Lewis, I found no noticeable difference in performance between that and the 1300w model. |
Post# 340773 , Reply# 45   1/6/2016 at 04:59 (3,004 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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I hope you're right. 2200w down 800w is a big jump. But I'll take your word for it Chris. Back in the day they didn't have HEPA filters, that will cause a resistance to airflow.
I will have to purchase an 800w Miele model and test it against my S8. It I get the same performance then great I will be a very happy boy :-) |
Post# 340794 , Reply# 47   1/6/2016 at 13:04 (3,004 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Its not just the premiums that had low power though; one of the cheapest bagged cylinder vacs in the UK from Daewoo previously had a 1500 watt motor, the RC350BK model. The new one has an 800 watt motor.
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Post# 340795 , Reply# 48   1/6/2016 at 13:08 (3,004 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Previously before the age of HEPA, there was S-Class filters which Miele used and of which SEBO's present filtration processes come under. S-Class filters are interesting in the sense that they use microfiltration layers made of electrostatic material.
But even at that S-Class and HEPA are not always the same; I have noticed it on some of the bagless and bagged uprights I've owned. Some brands fit a secondary foam filter under the HEPA filter which then blocks off more suction because it doesn't allow as much air to vent from the motor; others dont suffer from extra layers and just use paper pleated cartridges to trap emissions. If the paper cartridge isn't sealed enough, emissions can escape but it is minute that owners won't notice unless they have an emissions style tester. Yet, whilst HEPA filters may well help to absorb strong odour and emissions, not all HEPA filters cut off suction. |
Post# 340822 , Reply# 49   1/6/2016 at 20:35 (3,004 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)   |   | |
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Post# 340854 , Reply# 51   1/7/2016 at 10:14 (3,003 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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From what I can remember Hoover Europe had a lot of nonsense filters with the Telios models. I owned a few of those and loved the vacuums - however when they brought out the Pure Filt paper dust bag it blocked the suction in 1700 watt models that were fitted with HEPA filter cartridges. Hoover did the wrong idea of fitting the HEPA cartridge over the motor in the bag chamber. This cut off suction and more so with the higher filter dust bag on board.
Usually I find the black foam filters were installed before microfilters were all the norm with the Hoover cylinders - they are cheap and easy to clean, particularly if you forget to empty the bag or if the bag has burst. It catches dust on the foam texture easily and can be brushed or washed off. The problem I find with microfilters is that they can be difficult to wash because of their multilayers - the top surface gets clean but in the middle I can often see the dirt behind that can't be dislodged. |
Post# 340971 , Reply# 52   1/9/2016 at 04:40 (3,001 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)   |   | |
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I've briefly used one of the new Eco 700 watt SEBO Felix and have to say there is no noticeable difference owning one of the standard 1300 watt Felix. I did think it was slightly more powerful the Eco model, quieter and a lot less hot air coming out of it! I don't use my Felix on full power and its performs fine!
I'll admit I like these new restrictions on motor wattage for vacuum cleaners, less is more as they say!! If a lower watt vacuum can clean and perform just as good as a higher watt vacuum then there no need for the higher watts ones surely!? Plus it's encouraging manufacturers to design better machines from tools, nozzles, hoses, air paths, motors etc...to give better performance using a lower watt motor. Something I think has been lacking in the UK market for a while! |
Post# 340975 , Reply# 53   1/9/2016 at 06:38 (3,001 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 340979 , Reply# 54   1/9/2016 at 09:05 (3,001 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)   |   | |
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Thanks....it's understandable to be sceptical! I think you will be pleasantly surprised with an Eco vacuum! You'll have to let us all know what you think.
Apart from when I owned Dyson vacuums all others I've owned or used have had variable power control and never really had the need to use full power all the time. I might if used it to try it out but never purposely use full power no need too. Having said that none of them are over 1300 watts apart from my S7 Miele but I don't use it anymore. My Vorwerk doesn't use full power for most of the jobs it's used for and it only has a 900 watt motor. The only time it's on full power is for the vac and mop head which is required! Good design is key I think! |
Post# 340982 , Reply# 56   1/9/2016 at 09:30 (3,001 days old) by Madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)   |   | |
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Good point raised, forgot about twin fan motors. I believe some Electrolux of past used twin fan motors. They worked very well and like you say less noise too. Most be a reason why they don't. Mind you some are moving to brushless motors which spin faster, don't they use less power not sure! But you still get noise of the airflow around the motor! How about a brushless twin fan motor spinning slower!
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Post# 340985 , Reply# 57   1/9/2016 at 10:51 (3,001 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Twin motors arent fitted anymore because Id imagine they add weight as well as one more thing to go wrong. This is one reason to why SEBO did that Evolution upright with one motor as opposed to two. Even in the commercial cleaning world, its better to have one motor go down if it does happen than two.
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Post# 341007 , Reply# 59   1/9/2016 at 15:51 (3,001 days old) by Mike81 ()   |   | |
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I was talking about one motor with two turbines. More suction with lower wattage, lower rpm & less noise.
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Post# 341013 , Reply# 60   1/9/2016 at 17:58 (3,001 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 341043 , Reply# 65   1/10/2016 at 07:54 (3,000 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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I dont know why Philips have left the UK either. They certainly appear to sell vacuums in other European countries. I like their SDA ranges in general; we used to have a twin motor Philips mixer in the 1980s when my mum sold off her Kenwood Chef; the Philips went for years until one of the gears broke.
Amazon UK sometimes lists the odd vacuum cleaner model if you're lucky but then there's the question of bag availability if buying bagged. |
Post# 341062 , Reply# 67   1/10/2016 at 14:47 (3,000 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Respectively though Mike, I think you’ve fallen for the charms of the EU label and you won’t be the first. Plenty of buyers will be fooled into thinking that the higher the rating the better it will be. I speak from experience here as the label that came with my Hoover Idol stick vacuum states A for carpet performance and A for hard floor performance - yet the tools it comes with make no sense at all and in reality are worse than a standard combi floor tool.
Also as has been discussed before air watts decrease unless the suction is 100% in place all of the time. So whilst you may well start off with 785 air watts by the time a full cleaning is done within a week of a new bag being placed in the vacuum, that figure will have decreased by some extent. The energy labels aren't always truthful as they are tested by the manufacturer, not an independent company. |
Post# 341069 , Reply# 69   1/10/2016 at 16:11 (3,000 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Yet again though, its like car performance data, or even data on other services - those are datas collected by a company who has set up testing with specific criteria.
A household owner isn’t going to be testing carpet performance using how many grams of sand versus actual dirt or pet hair and even at that they won’t be measuring the amount of pet hair that their home has. Even if a HEPA filter on board gives a high count of “purity of exhaust air,” long term the stink caused in the hose isn’t going to be saved by the HEPA filter. Get what I mean by these results? Whilst it offers some value for some buyers, I don’t think it is particularly trustworthy to rely on these data tables or indeed “independent” testing. It can be independent yes but unless the criteria is established and known there is no real way of finding how much a vacuum cleaner performs without actual ownership. Also per country, brands like Miele offer different models with slightly different spec. Then there’s floor tools - if they all use eco led Wessel Werk then there should be no vast difference of pick up if both brand’s models have the same motor rating. What the criteria should be listing is measurement of the hose length. Too many brands are now fitting shorter hoses which compromises cleaning for the owner. A clear example of this is Hoover Europe. Perhaps to compensate for lack of pull, shorter hoses would minimise suction air so that more is concentrated at the head. |
Post# 341073 , Reply# 70   1/10/2016 at 16:33 (3,000 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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Page 21 of 28 you may read what Sebo say CLICK HERE TO GO TO Vintagerepairer's LINK |
Post# 341105 , Reply# 72   1/11/2016 at 10:54 (2,999 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 341107 , Reply# 73   1/11/2016 at 11:28 (2,999 days old) by sebo4me (Cardiff)   |   | |
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Post# 341145 , Reply# 75   1/11/2016 at 18:23 (2,999 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Yes but that is different - if owners are failing to realise that the combi suction floor tool has to have the pedals to push down the stiff bristles on a hard floor or even a wall, they're going to get a hard to push result as the floor tool is in carpet mode by default.
The eco floor heads I've experienced are awful for each EU test data; hard floor tool with a rubber squeegee that rolls on hard floors but picks up little to a carpet nozzle with a thin opening channel strip made up of double rubber squeegees that still makes it difficult to glide. The combi suction floor head eliminates that even if owners have to change the floor setting. Only combi suction floor tool that I have found to be different is that of the Sebo Deluxe Kombi double jointed floor head. It is now sold as simply SEBO Kombi floor head -and I find at times it can clean a hard floor without adjusting the brushes to emerge. |
Post# 341179 , Reply# 76   1/12/2016 at 06:35 (2,998 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341211 , Reply# 78   1/12/2016 at 15:42 (2,998 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341256 , Reply# 79   1/13/2016 at 09:15 (2,997 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 341269 , Reply# 81   1/13/2016 at 14:00 (2,997 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Im glad in a way that whilst there are plenty of cheap Chinese floor heads on the market, the open market in Europe means owners can get a professional floor tool from the likes of Wessel Werk. It may be costly but in the long run it gives the kind of performance already provided by the likes of Miele, Bosch and SEBO, even if SEBO choose to use some of their own patented floor heads.
Their Parquet Deluxe floor tool also has floating brush strips that I can find can also be used on carpet. The brush strips are also removable and there are four wheels on that model as well as their Kombi Deluxe floor tool. |
Post# 341465 , Reply# 82   1/17/2016 at 07:09 (2,993 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341476 , Reply# 83   1/17/2016 at 11:30 (2,993 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341477 , Reply# 84   1/17/2016 at 13:37 (2,993 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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The suction power has always been consistent in Numatic vacs because it is partly down to the rubberised membrane to the start of the bag where no suction air gets a chance to escape and then the filter basket at the top of the bag. Only other controllable air vent would be the air suction release twist valve at the top of the suction hose handle, which many owners have used in lieu of Hi/Lo switch function.
Good video Chris, but actual pick up of dust would be good to see rather than running around on a clean carpet (and I love the style btw) |
Post# 341481 , Reply# 86   1/17/2016 at 14:30 (2,993 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Now come on Nar, you should know better than that - there's no DUST in my house! It doesn't get a chance to settle lol.
I was mainly trying to respond to the concerns that lower power doesn't suck as much and won't spin a turbo brush. I will have to try this out with my 700w Miele and put some dirt down (not that I have any, of course :P) to see how that performs.
Mike, great video and you're right, there's very little difference between cleaners there. And the small difference certainly wouldn't be enough to stop the cleaner picking up. |
Post# 341483 , Reply# 87   1/17/2016 at 15:11 (2,993 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341484 , Reply# 88   1/17/2016 at 15:17 (2,993 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341485 , Reply# 89   1/17/2016 at 15:23 (2,993 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341492 , Reply# 90   1/17/2016 at 16:13 (2,993 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Have a look...
But I do have an open mind - this is an older video from 2012...
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Post# 341496 , Reply# 91   1/17/2016 at 16:20 (2,993 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341503 , Reply# 93   1/17/2016 at 16:36 (2,993 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341506 , Reply# 94   1/17/2016 at 16:47 (2,993 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 341510 , Reply# 95   1/17/2016 at 18:06 (2,993 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341552 , Reply# 96   1/18/2016 at 12:45 (2,992 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 341555 , Reply# 97   1/18/2016 at 13:08 (2,992 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341556 , Reply# 98   1/18/2016 at 13:35 (2,992 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 341889 , Reply# 99   1/24/2016 at 08:05 (2,986 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 341890 , Reply# 100   1/24/2016 at 08:20 (2,986 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)   |   | |
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Post# 342048 , Reply# 101   1/26/2016 at 09:12 (2,984 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Very true Chris, but for those who are collectors on here its good to know of alternatives that can fit that cheap vacuum.
Conversely enough though of the non-collector people I've spoken to who might go out and buy a Miele vac will seldom see them buying an additional tool even if it might give extra cleaning versatility. This is down to the already expensive cost price of the Miele vac in question. This post was last edited 01/26/2016 at 09:31 |
Post# 342239 , Reply# 103   1/28/2016 at 18:38 (2,982 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Interesting video but Im failing to actually see the point. This is because you're not using an air driven turbo brush on the Vorwerk, but rather an independent electric motor on the power nozzle PLUS the suction motor.
The cylinder vac has a single motor which also has to supply the air to the turbo brush. |
Post# 342252 , Reply# 105   1/28/2016 at 22:25 (2,982 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Oh I think they would know the difference given that the PN head is well known in the U.S against an air driven turbo brush. The fact that the turbo brush takes twice as long might not take twice as long when attached to a higher powered vacuum.
Infact when I think about it, higher suction power DOES allow air turbine brushes to move faster. But it also depends on the turbo brush in question and the carpet pile unless the turbo brush has an air outlet to stop the brush from getting stuck. I've bought some that leak far too much air even when added to a high powered vacuum. Also is that canister vacuum really a new eco modern vac, or a vintage vac with an already low power motor? |
Post# 342265 , Reply# 107   1/29/2016 at 07:24 (2,981 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Yes but respectively an old Volta may have better sealing than the eco modern vacs or even the opposite. Plus factoring in larger dust bag or smaller, synthetic dust bag or thicker paper HEPA style bag that can result in a loss of suction plus whatever is at the exhaust.
You started this thread with the decrease of air watts in modern eco vacs versus the high watt motor vacs of previous before the EU law. You've ended up showing a video with two old vacuums that use modern floor heads. The video link you've added is good and it shows a very well developed air driven turbo brush. What is the white stuff you have put down? |
Post# 342266 , Reply# 108   1/29/2016 at 07:30 (2,981 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 342270 , Reply# 110   1/29/2016 at 07:52 (2,981 days old) by Mike81 ()   |   | |
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That stuff on the carpet was very fine sawdust. |
Post# 342321 , Reply# 111   1/29/2016 at 19:34 (2,981 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)   |   | |
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Post# 342418 , Reply# 112   1/30/2016 at 14:02 (2,980 days old) by Mike81 ()   |   | |
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Exactly! But "normal" people who are looking for new vacuum cleaner they would think that fancy new Miele is superior. Sounds crazy, but most of the people have no idea what it takes to really clean the carpets. |
Post# 342527 , Reply# 113   1/31/2016 at 15:18 (2,979 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Yes but then owners dont have a clue in general sometimes - they use the combi suction floor head with the bristles DOWN on carpet because they seem to think the bristle perimeter will scrub the carpet clean - and then wonder why the combi suction pedal fails early.
Other things that owners do - and heavens knows why - when cleaning with a cylinder/canister vac, they end up double jointed over the handle with one hand on the handle and the other hand on the suction tube further down the suction tube as if it is meant to add pressure to the floor head when sucking up dirt. |