Thread Number: 28905
/ Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
Cyclonic vacuums vs Filter in bin vacuums |
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Post# 323094 , Reply# 1   4/23/2015 at 19:31 (3,262 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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I'm confused. What do you mean by a filter in the bin? Do you mean like the type where Vax used to fit twist to remove paper pleated cones that sits centre of the plastic bin with a top lid that has to be taken off and the dirt flies past the filter when the bin is spilt into a refuse bin? It doesn't really get cleaned if the dirt is flying past it...The paper pleated cone is supposed to be removed and brushed clean, but it still won't be as clean as the paper pleated HEPA cartridge that usually sits in front of a motor exhaust on a bagged vac.
IME cyclonic vacs are not great for "constant power." Not even Dyson in my experience. Prolonged yes, but not constant. You know yourself that all cyclonic vacs are different. Not down to the copied Dual cyclone Dyson method of NLOS filters but rather sealed suction and airflow. A lot of cheap bagless vacs have lousy leaks, Parwaz. Even that Dyson Cinetic that was recently shown from a You Tube video shows dirt in the motor from the Cinetic design. Cyclonic vacs are NOT "more hygienic" to empty though, either. Until brands start to make cyclonic filters that don't sit so close to the top of the bin, dust like pet hair that sticks to the top that requires it to be agitated to fall to the bottom will forever be required to be removed by hand. You won't get that in a bagged vacuum. |
Post# 323104 , Reply# 2   4/23/2015 at 20:57 (3,262 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA)   |   | |
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One notable brand that has the "filter in bin" design is Dirt Devil. Most Dirt Devils have a paper pleated filter in the center of the dirt container. As these filters clog, the vacuum loses suction. When it's time to empty, they are absolutely disgusting to clean. Dust flies all over the place.
Cyclonic vacuums, such as Dyson and Fantom, are excellent in my experience. However, some companies that have copied Dyson's dual cyclonic technology have developed inefficient cyclones that will clog the filter and eventually cause the machine to lose suction. I find that cyclonic machines with bottom-empty dirt cups leave a little to be desired. A lot of manufacturers have placed the emptying lever near the bottom of the cup. So you have some contact with the dirt as you empty it. They also contain static electricity, so you may be shocked when emptying it. Dyson, on the other hand, has placed the emptying lever near the bin handle, which makes it a lot more hygienic to empty. |
Post# 323129 , Reply# 5   4/24/2015 at 05:58 (3,261 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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There is absolutely no doubt that multi-cyclonic, high efficiency cyclonic vacuums are far superior to single cyclonic, low efficiency, "filter-in-bin" vacuums.
I've seen heaps of burnt out single cyclone cleaners over the years. The filter doesn't get cleaned when you empty the bin as Tayyab said. Most of those pleated HEPA filters can't be washed, so unlike a Dyson or high end Vax where one would wash out the filter to maintain it, this can't be done with the cheaper bagless vacuums, so the only option is to bang or brush the dust out of the filter which, aside from being incredibly messy and unhygienic, doesn't remove all the dust.
The minute you turn on a bagless cleaner of that design and dust hits the bin, the suction is compromised. |
Post# 323131 , Reply# 6   4/24/2015 at 06:17 (3,261 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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"...There is absolutely no doubt that multi-cyclonic, high efficiency cyclonic vacuums are far superior to single cyclonic, low efficiency, "filter-in-bin" vacuums..."
Very true, but at the same time before all this bagless cyclonic design came along, vacuum owners didn't really have to worry about cleaning out dust when a bag contains it all. That's my point in a nutshell. As consumers we're constantly being told how bagless passes BAF awards as well as being healthy for allergy sufferers using the HEPA filter as the barrier to dust. it simply isn't true at all. Yes, bags do clog but that "cloud of dust" that some brands and models provide due to a lack of dust seal closures is MINIMAL compared to the dust created when emptying a bottom release dust bin, even worse with the filter in the bin idea. |
Post# 323134 , Reply# 7   4/24/2015 at 06:23 (3,261 days old) by parwaz786 ( )   |   | |
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I think the only cyclonic vacuums that work are only dysons though, my ex "mate" has a vax Air 3 and the filters get a chunk of dust on them after several uses |
Post# 323135 , Reply# 8   4/24/2015 at 06:28 (3,261 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Agree completely Nar. I've always, ALWAYS found bagged to be more convenient and more hygenic, even as a 7 year old when I was first playing with DC01's and DC03's, I always thought they were messy.
My Mum has a Vax Air reach. Granted, it only get's used upstairs and to clean the car, but she uses it a few times a week and the filters usually last about a month-6 weeks before they need cleaning. Not that she ever cleans it, I always end up doing it for her. Much to my annoyance. |
Post# 323136 , Reply# 9   4/24/2015 at 06:30 (3,261 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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IMO it doesn't matter if one or two brands are able to demonstrate that. What Dyson need to develop is a cyclonic shroud that doesn't sit too close to the top of the inner bin. Thus, minimising any clogged dust like pet hair that gets stuck and then needs to be removed by hand when it doesn't come out the first time.
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Post# 323138 , Reply# 10   4/24/2015 at 06:39 (3,261 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Yes Chris, bagged vacs do provide more convenience and hygiene but the general consumer has been fed too much on the "no need to buy bags" Dyson mantra, only to find several months down the line that they are up to their elbows in dust and cleaning filters.
However, with the requirement to clean every day due to pets, I can see the worthwhile point of owning a bagless vacuum. Or in a home that has children playing all the time where dirt is forever going to land on carpets. I recently sold my Vax Mach Air Reach to a friend in need who has just inherited two rescue dogs. It wasn't a hard task to come to in terms of finding an excuse to keep it; I still have a bagless Hotpoint cylinder vac. It barely gets used unless family members visit with pets on tow and the dirt.dust and pet hair can be emptied after use. The beauty of bagless is that you CAN empty as you go; same with Gtech sweepers, dust busters et al. The only similarity with bagged vacuums is that both require brush rolls to be cleaned off when hair gets wrapped around the brush roll; but so many owners tend to forget this and more so if the bagless vac requires the filters to be cleaned again. |
Post# 323176 , Reply# 13   4/24/2015 at 15:03 (3,261 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 323190 , Reply# 14   4/24/2015 at 19:12 (3,261 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA)   |   | |
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I also have had no problems with Dyson's suction power. My DC07 Animal's filter remained spotless after countless uses. I washed them every 6 months, and the water ran clear each and every time. The only time when the filter got dirty was when my mom vacuumed off an extremely dirty air purifier. There was black dust flying into the canister, and some of it got to the filter. I then washed it, and it never came back to its original color.
10 months ago, my mom bought some Arm & Hammer Carpet Odor Eliminator powder to get rid of the DC07's dog smell. It worked; however the filter dirtied after use. I think some of that powder got to the motor! We went through the entire box, and now the dog smell is gone! And even better, the Dyson still works beautifully! As I've stated before, Dyson is the only company to have perfected cyclonic technology. Below is a pic of my DC07, AKA my old profile pic. My mom now owns it.
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Post# 323192 , Reply# 15   4/24/2015 at 19:32 (3,261 days old) by parwaz786 ( )   |   | |
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I agree :D |
Post# 323195 , Reply# 16   4/24/2015 at 20:18 (3,261 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA)   |   | |
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Post# 323210 , Reply# 21   4/24/2015 at 23:32 (3,261 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)   |   | |
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I had a Fury in the late 90s. God I hated that vacuum! I never had the Fantom Thunder - I think that came later after the Fantom. The Thunder HAD to be an improvement over the Fury. The one thing I hated about the Fantom (other than emptying a bagless vacuum and dust flying), was the dirt bin seemed to barely have a seal and when vacuuming along, you could actually see dust collecting on the outside of the vacuum.
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Post# 323220 , Reply# 23   4/25/2015 at 06:17 (3,260 days old) by parwaz786 ( )   |   | |
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I would like to now of the best upright Dyson that can handle LOADS of hair and can still work well as the only vac being used in a 3 story multi floored (mainly carpeted) house with a large family |
Post# 323223 , Reply# 24   4/25/2015 at 07:44 (3,260 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 323234 , Reply# 25   4/25/2015 at 10:55 (3,260 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA)   |   | |
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I had a Fantom Fury when I was a little kid. I never got to use it, but I remember watching my mom vacuum with it in our 2-bedroom apartment with dark brown carpeting and 3 cats. I believe it was the 10 amp version, with the dark green collection bin, teal bumper and teal handle grip. I remember the way that the collection bin worked. This was all when I was a very young child, from kindergarten through 1st grade.
Sadly, my family got rid of it when we moved out of our apartment in the summer of 2001. So the Fantom Fury holds a special place in my heart, and I truly feel that it is a masterpiece of a vacuum cleaner. I would love to find another Fantom Fury. One of these days... |
Post# 323273 , Reply# 26   4/25/2015 at 14:23 (3,260 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)   |   | |
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It was Lightning that came after Fury - at any rate, when you connect the dust cup to the vacuum, it never felt snug to me, like it was BARELY there. It was on properly though! So when I would vacuum, I always felt like some of the swirling dirt would escape and you could totally see the outside of the vacuum getting really dusty as you vacuumed. At the time I was living in a duplex that had a back deck and I would always take it outside to empty it into a shopping bag and I also remember this black SCREEN at the top that would always be caked with dirt that you had to clean off. I hated the entire experience with that vacuum......I did like the way it looked though. It was a pretty vacuum with the black and teal.
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Post# 323283 , Reply# 27   4/25/2015 at 15:23 (3,260 days old) by niclonnic (Bonney Lake, WA)   |   | |
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With my Fury, my mom would dump the collection bin into the kitchen trash can after every use. I also remember the screen that would stay in the vacuum when the bin was removed.
You're right, the Fantom Fury was quite a sleek machine. Funny thing is, black and teal are my high school colors! It's too bad that Fantom went out of business... |