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Thread Number: 27984
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Disappointed with Dyson ethics |
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| Post# 312733 , Reply# 1 1/21/2015 at 04:35 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 312736 , Reply# 2 1/21/2015 at 04:49 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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I will start a new thread whenever I choose!That's not for you to decide. | ||
| Post# 312739 , Reply# 3 1/21/2015 at 05:02 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Well I would've thought that it's pretty much common courtesy to keep discussions about the same thing together in 1 thread rather than creating lots of seperate threads. Adding it to the already existing thread just makes logical sense, surely?
The more threads we create, the bigger the site gets, the more it's costs to run.
Anyway, you're right, not my decision. Just don't be all that surprised if the 2 threads get merged. | ||
| Post# 312742 , Reply# 4 1/21/2015 at 05:08 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Well I'm sorry if it costs a lot of money. I will make a donation. But I've put up 3 threads in the last 4 months. So I apologise. | ||
| Post# 312743 , Reply# 5 1/21/2015 at 05:11 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 312749 , Reply# 7 1/21/2015 at 06:01 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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They may have a point. Maybe I was a little too quick to complain. | ||
| Post# 312751 , Reply# 8 1/21/2015 at 06:06 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 312753 , Reply# 9 1/21/2015 at 06:13 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Well there are inconsistencies with all the testing. How long before someone takes Vax to court? This will only be sorted out with independant testing even then there will be disputes. | ||
| Post# 312754 , Reply# 10 1/21/2015 at 06:18 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Absolutely agree, there are far too many inconsistencies. They need to do what they've done for washing machines and set up an independant testing centre which awards the ratings. At least that way, whilst the results may differ slightly depending on the carpet etc, the testing will be consistent. Whilst not perfect, it would be a vast improvement.
I really do appreciate what the legislation has tried to do - lower the wattage of vacuums, whilst keeping performance high by impliementing a minimum performance criteria. But they really haven't gone about it very well. Having said that, it was the same for the first year or so of washing machine ratings, so we could see things pick up (no pun intended). Especially if something positive comes out of this court case. | ||
| Post# 312755 , Reply# 11 1/21/2015 at 06:24 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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Yes the court case could lead to independent testing. I hope so. | ||
| Post# 312757 , Reply# 12 1/21/2015 at 06:49 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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What Dyson are saying is probably correct. Testing on different types of carpet and new and worn carpet could give different results leading to different grades. So will independant tests have to use a new strip of the same carpet for each cleaner tested? | ||
| Post# 312760 , Reply# 13 1/21/2015 at 07:48 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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have to use a new strip of the same carpet for each cleaner I would think it doesn't have to be the same strip of carpet, but the same type and style of carpet, possible from the same roll, that would need to be replaced after X amount of tests. So have lots of test strips on 1 huge piece of carpet, using the same weight and type of dust.
I noticed that the ratings are awarded using fake dust, so they don't take into account large particles. I find this a bit ridiculous, especially on bare floors. | ||
| Post# 312763 , Reply# 14 1/21/2015 at 07:54 (3,380 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
That's the very first thing I would expect each lab to be doing. Regardless of who is doing the testing, they ought to be using a brand new section of the very same carpet from the same manufacturer each time (after cleaning it first with the reference vacuum cleaner to remove any loose fibres from the mill). On top of that, they need to use the same test dust mixture, apply it in exactly the same manner, and use the same test rig to drive the cleaner over the carpet during the test.
It's the only way to ensure full accuracy and repeatability. Really it would beggar belief if they were not doing this, because fair testing protocol is the kind of thing we learned in GCSE science at school. I sincerely hope the testing institutes concerned are operating at a slightly higher level than that. | ||
| Post# 312765 , Reply# 15 1/21/2015 at 08:00 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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I would hope so. But i'm sure there will be refinements they can make to give even more accurate test results. I wouldn't mind that job myself :) | ||
| Post# 312772 , Reply# 16 1/21/2015 at 08:47 (3,380 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
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| Post# 312784 , Reply# 17 1/21/2015 at 09:32 (3,380 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR) | ||
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I'm so glad that the governments have so much time and effort to devote to regulating vacuum cleaners. It's not like there's anything else for them to do. They really should hire tens of thousands of vacuum cleaner testers and build hundreds of testing labs. It's not like the taxpayers can't afford to pay more in taxes. | ||
| Post# 312785 , Reply# 18 1/21/2015 at 09:35 (3,380 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR) | ||
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yes, the government labs should have new carpet samples for every test. and a new vacuum for every test. | ||
| Post# 312789 , Reply# 19 1/21/2015 at 09:43 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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It would be the EU as a whole. But don't forget it will be the manufacturers who pays for the tests. And if it leads to more efficient machines it will save on our energy bills not to mention the environment. | ||
| Post# 312799 , Reply# 20 1/21/2015 at 10:21 (3,380 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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The idea behind the legislation was to lower the wattage and keep performance high, thus improving the reliability of the machine with less being thrown away and less money being spent in the long term to dispose of old cleaners. In theory, it's a great plan, but it's been executed extremely poorly.
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| Post# 312801 , Reply# 21 1/21/2015 at 10:46 (3,380 days old) by marcusprit () | ||
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And they wouldn't need lots of test facilities there aren't huge amounts of new models coming out each year. | ||
| Post# 312873 , Reply# 22 1/21/2015 at 21:32 (3,380 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Well there are plenty of vacuums coming out from brands every year, and less so given that every couple of months Vax from TTI keep churning out something new.
But then the brands have sat up and read some of the rules that the EU law dictates, not just lowering motor watts. I shouldn't wonder that we'll also be seeing far more wet and dry vacuums appearing soon - after all, when considering the exemption list of products, there's a bit more to chew on in terms of how brands can get around the new law with the exemption rules in place. The implications of the exemption could provide brands in the UK to at last develop: 1) Cheaper central vacuums for UK homes. 2) More robotic vacuums with a wet/dry suction facility. 3) Combo floor polishers with vacuum cleaner suction provision (SEBO Felix Disco springs to mind, here). 4) More cordless permutations.
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| Post# 312874 , Reply# 23 1/21/2015 at 21:33 (3,380 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 312876 , Reply# 24 1/21/2015 at 21:43 (3,380 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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One final point I wish to make Marcus, and though no fault of your own, is a thought that has often been expressed by so many other members on here; no vacuum cleaner is perfect, and neither are the brand. Some come close on truths but largely at the end of the day, most are out to make money and can often be liberal with the actual truth.
With regard to testing new carpet pieces, I'm not entirely sure how that would work. Spira makes a very good point that top soil carpet would have to be removed first if new samples of existing carpet was to be used, but I would still expect infrequencies of data in terms of pick up. Lets not forget that though some brands are using different quality bristles in the brush rolls, only a few brands are also making changes to the actual sole plate and general design to allow more force of suction to occur. Whilst I have said it all along that the EU energy labels have not been properly thought out, I don't think it is all that important to know if a vacuum cleaner should have a rating for pick on dust from carpets and hard floors. After all, how can one rate a vacuum cleaner usage on just floor use alone? If we are going to get pedantic, then surely there should be a test that conducts sealed suction instead as well as durability? These aspects would be a heck of a lot better for customers as well as, to some degree, contribute a much better rating to support eco concerns and long term maintenance. | ||
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