Thread Number: 27640  /  Tag: Recent Vacuum Cleaners from past 20 years
TTI and Oreck
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Post# 309076   12/17/2014 at 17:52 (3,389 days old) by Orecklover ()        

Since TTI has acquired Oreck, I have noticed a major change. Oreck has made great quality products and now TTI has ruined that. I am thankful as TTI has saved oreck I just wish that they didn't change so many things. Such as the model line up, Oreck used to make the same style machines just with different models and they were the best. Now, TTI only makes a view machines like that and now they have these weird looking things. TTI also did that with Hoover. look at that new oreck steamer thing, what even is that? It's not a traditional oreck machine and that's why I think TTI is ruining the brand. Many people don't want a machine like that from Oreck, the market is basically for the 8 pound upright not a big clunky steamer. Many consumers went to oreck for great quality machines and now TTI has turned it all different. they basically turned oreck into another Hoover lineup. I personally hate TTI.

Post# 309088 , Reply# 1   12/17/2014 at 19:04 (3,389 days old) by daknx1994 (Southern Indiana)        

No one yet knows what the quality of these new machines will be so we can't even really judge them now can we? TTI has done some pretty good things with their brands. Honestly at my shop, I see more Bisell's, Eureka's and Dyson's more than any other brand. (This is not a brand bashing post by the way), it will only be a matter of time to see how things all play out.

Post# 309111 , Reply# 2   12/17/2014 at 22:22 (3,389 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Here in the UK I haven't noticed any change. They're still over priced and still upright only with no tools. They may well be far more modern in the States but in Europe they have relatively low domestic sales according to the email I received from Oreck UK when I asked them how long it would take them to get new products on their website.

As a result it is a monopoly on EBay UK where plenty of refurbished and old stock Orecks are going for low prices. Some owners do like to get their investment back but they soon discover that Orecks aren't much of a seller secondhand, no matter what condition they are in. The only one that seems to sell well is the metal fan built Oreck XL commercial.


Post# 309157 , Reply# 3   12/18/2014 at 11:43 (3,388 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
I get so many Orecks brought in and given to me. They wind up in the crusher. I have no use for them. They always have a ton of problems from holes in the fan case, to broken fans and housings. I've always said that if Oreck sold them HONESTLY, as a high quality electric broom (which it is), and sold them for $100, I'd be fine with them. But to sell them as a substitute for a real vacuum cleaner is inexcusable.

Post# 309178 , Reply# 4   12/18/2014 at 14:32 (3,388 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

sptyks's profile picture

I totally agree Tom.


Post# 309186 , Reply# 5   12/18/2014 at 15:45 (3,388 days old) by bagintheback (Flagstaff, Arizona)        

bagintheback's profile picture

I know I've been pretty defensive about TTI recently, but they've done nothing Oreck hasn't done in the past. Once Oreck bought Regina (excluding the name), many of those products were carried over to their line up. For years they have been importing Chinese products, think air purifiers, and slaping their name on it.

 

I too believe their primary product is the 8-pound upright. But TTI knows there is a market for this. Why else would they have released the Platinum lightweight?  I really doubt the traditional Oreck is going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

We'll see what happens. Oreck has been in a slump for the past few years, and may be on the verge of a new renaissance for the brand.  


Post# 309229 , Reply# 6   12/19/2014 at 02:57 (3,387 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Another Oreck ill-blown motors-unlike higher power direct air vacuums-if the Oreck ingests something that jams the fan-the motor burns out.Higher power machines can overcome the jam-or a thermal breaker shuts off the motor. The vac places I know of-blown Oreck motors are common.Another thought-the Oreck looks like a big vacuum-but it isn't-as pointed out its an electric broom with a roller brush.Originally these machines were designed to clean very low pile commercial carpet.They really cannot do well on deep carpets used in homes.To get adequite airflow with an Oreck-the motor has to turn very fast-faster than other machines becuase of its tiny fan.As it does--the tiny motors also just wear out becuase of their higher speeds--and some models NOISE!!!

Post# 309245 , Reply# 7   12/19/2014 at 09:48 (3,387 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Not bashing

At one time a Consumer Reports article referred to the Oreck as a Hokey with a motor.

As I have stated before, the Oreck is a fine little machine when your expectations are for what it was designed. Short Pile carpet, regular maintenance clean ups. They will not replace a full power full sized upright no matter how much they advertise so.

They used to marketed mostly for hotels and commercial type carpeting, then with the aging population they discovered that the 8lb convenience was appreciated.

Again as I have stated previously: It is better to vacuum daily with a lightweight, than not at all with a larger machine.


Post# 309278 , Reply# 8   12/19/2014 at 14:15 (3,387 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
Tom

kirbylux77's profile picture
"I've always said that if Oreck sold them HONESTLY, as a high quality electric broom (which it is), and sold them for $100, I'd be fine with them. But to sell them as a substitute for a real vacuum cleaner is inexcusable."

Wow....you never cease to amaze me sometimes! What a hypocrite you are, critcizing an Oreck & saying it should be called an "Electric Broom"! Last time I checked, your Riccar Supralite & Simplicity Freedom 8 lb uprights were built EXACTLY like an Oreck is! Except your machines may be slightly better built & clean slightly better. Maybe YOU should be calling your 8 lb uprights "Electric Brooms" then as well & selling them for $100 dollars. Until you're willing to do so (and we all know that would be a cold day in hell for you to do that), maybe you should quit bashing Oreck. They ARE a REAL vacuum, just that it is built for one particular type of carpeting & enviroment. And after all, David Oreck DID invent the 8 lb upright to begin with, so without him you would have had nothing to copy & improve in the first place!

Rob


Post# 309282 , Reply# 9   12/19/2014 at 14:45 (3,387 days old) by fantomfan (Rochester, New York)        
Actually Oreck bought the design from Whirpool.

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I'm not taking any sides, but Oreck wasn't the first to make an "8 pound vacuum." It was a thrown out Whirlpool design. I have used Orecks, and then Tacony's design. They are not the same. The motor is larger, and has much more airflow. My Orecks always just glided over the carpet, never really creating any type of seal to the carpet. Tacony's also has a far more aggressive brushroll. Most people I have met are VERY displeased with their Oreck. All of this relating to the wimpy brushroll and small motor. Their adverts were VERY misleading to much of the public. I rarely see Orecks in commercial settings anymore.

Post# 309285 , Reply# 10   12/19/2014 at 14:53 (3,387 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        

As I am not aware of all that has happened with Oreck, I am keen to find out more.

However, if TTI has taken over Oreck, then it makes sense that Oreck were doing something wrong in the first place or else they'd still be in business. So to that end, why would TTI want to carry on with what Oreck were doing? The "value" in these take-overs is almost always in the brand name and not the products.


Post# 309306 , Reply# 11   12/19/2014 at 19:10 (3,387 days old) by daknx1994 (Southern Indiana)        

No offense Tom, but Simplicity and Riccar are not that much better than Oreck. I have seen numerous Oreck's come in that have bobby pin's or even coins stuck in the fan housing. All that needs done is to remove them and on they go. I have seen more older Oreck's last than I have Tacony products. Also the XL-21 styled machines do have a lot more power than the traditional Oreck's, and I agree the classic models do lack in cleaning ability. I have many customer's who are happy with Oreck's and buy them more over Tacony. I am not trying to bash the brand as they do make some pretty decent products, I am just getting tired of this constant brand bashing that you have been on lately.


Post# 309310 , Reply# 12   12/19/2014 at 19:50 (3,387 days old) by kloveland (Tulsa)        

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I really like my Oreck XL 21. It's a good vacuum. Just remember the performance of a vacuum really depends on the type of flooring that is being vacuumed. Is it a bare floor, commercial grade carpeting or plush carpeting. I'm also very tired of the constant brand bashing. It really gets old after awhile. I have three family members who have various Oreck vacuums and they all like them.

Post# 309377 , Reply# 13   12/20/2014 at 12:41 (3,386 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
As a former user of the XL-21,

I can tell you that there is a notable difference between any of the 8 pound Orecks and the TOP OF THE LINE Riccar/Simplicity 8 pound machines (AND NO, I'm not bashing). To be fair, I would only compare top models of each brand. Oreck doesn't even offer the option of a steel brushroll. I've had my Simplicity freedom for over 2 months now and I have no regrets because IMHO there's very little to compare. There is nothing "electric broom-ish" about a lightweight upright that seals to the carpet and really digs in to the nap. Reminds me an older upright from days gone by.

Post# 309408 , Reply# 14   12/20/2014 at 20:05 (3,386 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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In my experience, a vacuum cleaner by upright design with a brush bar AND a seal is more harmful to carpet than an upright without that seal in place.

Having a seal doesn't mean ALL manner of dust gets brushed and sucked up and deposited in the bag, but rather the danger of damaging your carpet, regardless of the science of the vacuum and pile movement during cleaning. You might not be able to see it, but a seal on a sole plate threatens a carpet in terms of carpet wear.



Post# 309466 , Reply# 15   12/21/2014 at 11:03 (3,385 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Let me put proper perspective on my use of "seal"

The machine actually feels like it has a hold on the carpet nap, not that it's just skimming over the surface the way certain 8 pound uprights do.

Post# 309525 , Reply# 16   12/21/2014 at 19:45 (3,385 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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If its got a "hold" on a carpet nap, I can't think of anything worse!

This is the very problem I find on the Vax Cordless Air. Due to its 3 suction channel Windtunnel tech fitted to the floor head, it jams on carpet pile, removing more carpet fibre than actual dust with dirt in it. The brush roll may well be soft, but the force of suction from the floor head is enough to remove more than just dirt.


Post# 309532 , Reply# 17   12/21/2014 at 21:46 (3,385 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
seal damages carpet

Pish-Posh.
They would not have received a Gold seal from the Carpet and Rug institute if they damaged carpeting.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO Kirbysthebest's LINK


Post# 309640 , Reply# 18   12/22/2014 at 19:06 (3,384 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Oh yes the famous misled CRI company. The ones who give the Windsor uprights a different rating to the same SEBO model in a different colour. Dont give me your pish.

Post# 309644 , Reply# 19   12/22/2014 at 19:21 (3,384 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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The other thing of course that is blatantly obvious, is that if an upright vacuum cleaner is advertised as being lightweight but then is a chore to push on the very texture its design is supposed to deliver on, then the whole idea of a lightweight upright 8lb vacuum gets lost.

I have had an Oreck XL before and now I have a Vax VCU-02 which is like a copy (ironic it was produced before TTI took over Oreck) and is similar to many of the TTI branded uprights in the U.S (Kirbyloverdan has a few of them such as the Hoover Signature commercial upright). Oh yes, it is beautifully light to push over my wool carpet but give it a short pile rug and it can be a bit of a chore. They're light enough for a quick clean but I can't abide how some textures can be more difficult to these lightweight uprights.


Post# 309649 , Reply# 20   12/22/2014 at 19:46 (3,384 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Pish back at you--again

You stated: "In my experience, a vacuum cleaner by upright design with a brush bar AND a seal is more harmful to carpet than an upright without that seal in place."

Kirby is one of those machines along with Hoover that seal the carpet, lifts it up and cleans from bottom to top. In nearly 60 years I have NEVER had a Kirby damage a carpet. And it did get a Gold seal from the CRI you dread.

Now Dyson, that's another story. Notorious for damaging carpeting, not because of their "seal" or lack there of, but because they have a brush roll with the consistency of a steel brush. You don't need a brush so stiff that it cuts you fingers when you touch it.

Besides, I didn't think you could get the Riccar vacuums in your part of the world. And the Supralite does dig down, I don't notice any more fluff that any other vac. I have a Saxony Plush. Now one that they do advise the Supra has difficulty with is the frizze (shag) because the strands get wrapped around the brush due to the floating head. Riccar has fixed this by supplying a stop that will not allow the head to float all the way down.





Post# 309651 , Reply# 21   12/22/2014 at 19:58 (3,384 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

How does Oreck compare to Shop Vac Easy Lift?

Post# 309653 , Reply# 22   12/22/2014 at 20:00 (3,384 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Did I say that Kirby damages carpet?
No.
Have I referred to Riccar in my responses?
No.

I did mention "in my experience," which you seem to ignore quite obviously.

Where CRI is concerned, marketing and organisations go hand in hand with brands and offer up convenient data based on using approval stamps that one day may well be disproved. It isn't unusual to find why consumers are questioning how a bagless upright can claim to have a Allergen seal of approval when the air gets dirty again as dirt gets chucked into a bin, for example.

Carpet wear is not just viewable from the top surface. Constant going over with an upright loses the underlay tread underneath, or to be more simple, the actual stitching in place on the back of the carpet. Some uprights offer a seal of suction and a brush roll WITH a protecting edge that allows carpet wear to have less damage over a longer period of time. True the brush roll plays a big part in it, but stiff bristles aren't stiff for long, they do wear down after a while.


Post# 309657 , Reply# 23   12/22/2014 at 20:37 (3,384 days old) by kenkart ()        
Well....

Not to be cantakerous..but, I have a 1954 Hoover 63 and if it wont outclean a brand new Oreck...I will run naked down the middle of Broadway!!


Post# 309662 , Reply# 24   12/22/2014 at 21:43 (3,384 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        

One can back peddle if they wish, but once they make generalized statement "In my experience, a vacuum cleaner by upright design with a brush bar AND a seal is more harmful to carpet than an upright without that seal in place. " And in direct response to the mention of one type of machine and the characteristics of another group it is then understandable that a reasonable person of average intelligence could make the jump.

Even without CRI the naked eye can look at a 14 year old carpet and tell that it doesn't have bald spots, grooves, or noticeable wear. So in my experience I will continue to Beats as it sweeps as it cleans and Triple Cushion Vibration my carpet on a daily basis.

Oh, and Riccars don't seal to the carpet anyway, that's one of their selling points.








This post was last edited 12/22/2014 at 21:58
Post# 309670 , Reply# 25   12/22/2014 at 22:43 (3,384 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Even if someone with a degree of intelligence would make the jump, they would think first reacting to the statement "in my experience."

Post# 309700 , Reply# 26   12/23/2014 at 09:39 (3,383 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Got it

You have little experience.


Post# 309706 , Reply# 27   12/23/2014 at 11:22 (3,383 days old) by Orecklover ()        
now now...

Kirbysthebest, stop being rude! Sebo_fan probably has a lot more experience than you so watch what you are saying. Also, not all people think kirbys the best.

Post# 309711 , Reply# 28   12/23/2014 at 13:59 (3,383 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
One must always be considerate of others' favorite vacuu

gottahaveahoove's profile picture
I have 3 Kirby(s) in the cellar, to be sold after the holidays. I'm not a "KIRBYLOVER", but, I appreciate those who have/like them. I know some info about them, not a lot, and that's ok. but, I'd never bash.

Post# 309714 , Reply# 29   12/23/2014 at 14:37 (3,383 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Sorry John

However, no one was bashing a particular machine,  One party just claimed that they knew all, contrary to proven testing from noted authorities.

 

Much like stepping in a cow pie, some would immediately know it was a cow pie, and others would deny it and claim their experience tells them it was chocolate pudding.  Even after tasting it they would change their stance and claim the pudding must have gone sour. 


Post# 309717 , Reply# 30   12/23/2014 at 14:51 (3,383 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        
To each his own...

sptyks's profile picture

 I don't think Kierbysthebest is being rude. He's just stating fact as far as I can see.

 

I have had lots of experience with Kirbys and Hoovers and am a firm believer in CRI's tests and ratings. I currently own 4 different models of Kirbys and love them all. I also own a Hoover Windtunnel.

 

I have never owned or even used a Sebo, but I've read enough about them on here to know I wouldn't like them. I know that Sebo's are made of plastic and they have wimpy brushrolls. Just those 2 facts alone let me know I wouldn't care to ever own a Sebo.

 

It's ok to love whatever vacuum "floats your boat" but not ok to bash a vacuum just because you don't care for it.


Post# 309739 , Reply# 31   12/23/2014 at 21:33 (3,383 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Stating fact? Here's my real experience!

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I haven't even mentioned SEBO in any of the responses I have given. One needs to look past favourite brands to relate actual user experience.

Lets have a little discussion here in terms of CRI supposed ratings, shall we?

Looking at some of the claimed "Gold" winners, I see a Hoover CH5300 and cosmetically different (but same model) Hoover C1320 getting a gold award. What does this actually mean according to CRI?

Does it mean it is effective only on carpets or hard floors or both? The Vax version sold in the UK is the same as the Hoover models listed above. You'll find from my videos here showing that the Vax doesn't even offer any agitation/vibration vs the clean fan SEBO Felix (now I am mentioning SEBO) that does appear to vibrate carpet. The Vax is also poor on hard floor pick up, scattering cat litter pellets about, failing to pick up and on carpet, where vibration is concerned, it is non-existent. Yet CRI have pasted a Gold seal award on the U.S versions.

What I haven't said all along - and because no one as yet has picked up on the fact - is that beater bars in my experience do help to protect carpets! Its all very well having a flush sole plate and a soft bristle bar with a seal around it to pick up dirt, but if there are no beaters on the bar itself, the science of how an upright agitates pile can effectively damage carpet without beaters long term.

Unless of course the brand in question has actually designed a brush bar to imitate beating action from the arrangement of the bristles and the bristle design.





Hard floor pick up with the Vax at 5:16





With my experience the TTI product is better on carpet than on hard floors but it is no where better than an old classic Hoover Junior or classic Hoover upright that agitates the carpet and doesn't rip carpet pile out long term in my experience.


Post# 309765 , Reply# 32   12/24/2014 at 08:53 (3,382 days old) by orecklover ()        
I know...

some people think that Oreck's are just modified sweepers but they aren't. The Oreck XL21 is a full size powerful upright and it even compares to my mother's dyson.

Post# 309773 , Reply# 33   12/24/2014 at 09:39 (3,382 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
fantomfan

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"I'm not taking any sides, but Oreck wasn't the first to make an "8 pound vacuum." It was a thrown out Whirlpool design."

Yes, that's true....BUT it's a well known fact that David Oreck was employed by Whirlpool & he was the one who was responsible for it's design. David Oreck merely bought the rights to his own design when he stopped working for Whirlpool, & used it to found Oreck Corporation.

Rob


Post# 309775 , Reply# 34   12/24/2014 at 10:06 (3,382 days old) by fantomfan (Rochester, New York)        
Ok.

fantomfan's profile picture
I thought you meant he was the first COMPANY that invented the 8 pound vacuum. I was looking at it that way. I still don't care for them much, but I respect other's opinions. Nobody should think that we all need to like the same things. -Mitchell

Post# 309849 , Reply# 35   12/25/2014 at 03:08 (3,381 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I agree, fantomfan!

One of the reasons to why I bought my Vax/TTI product was simply because it was like an Oreck but had several added design features that I liked from our originally owned Oreck XL! The price for starters was a major attractant when I bought the Vax. The VCU02/Hoover Signature has a place in my home for usage. Its a good one, but it has to be used occasionnaly - the brush roll is too busy and not all that kind to wool carpets. I tend to use it in our local church when im on the roll for cleaning.



Post# 309896 , Reply# 36   12/25/2014 at 19:18 (3,381 days old) by VacuumSalesman (Berlin Heights)        
My twisted and odd opinion:

I believe that Oreck wasn't always the greatest brand to begin with. Every Oreck I have had or worked on is completely ruined! Those people who somehow had an Oreck since they have come out is quite rare without the Oreck have broken fans and huge gashes in the bag, or clogs in that skinny airway. And I also believe that most people that are uneducated about vacuums go to the store for a specific brand or a sleek design. People who buy Orecks buy it because it is eight pounds. Not because it cleans well. I know for sure that my Hoover Windtunnel cleans better than it, and it is made by TTI. I don't approve of TTI though either. They don't have anything different or original in their line up ever. Every vacuum has the name Windtunnel or T- Series! And Oreck was the same. They vacuums never changed, the model number only got bigger. They had the same technology and never offered anything better even though they easily could. And maybe TTI understands the 8 pound design, and the old steam cleaners, but apparently it is those kinds of machines that bankrupted Oreck in the first place. It wouldn't be bad of they changed one steam cleaner to basically a Hoover Floormate, I personally think that is a great cleaner, and the Oreck one is very good looking as well.
I know that is a lot to follow, but it was just my opinion and I am sorry if I upset you. - Nate the VacuumSalesman.


Post# 309903 , Reply# 37   12/25/2014 at 20:20 (3,381 days old) by orecklover ()        
well...

It's the 8 pound design that made Oreck successful tongue-out It's the lack of sales, that I think, made them bankrupt. Every Oreck that I have is in great shape. My aunt had an Oreck for 14 years before she gave it to me. There was nothing wrong with it whatsoever. TTI IS ruining Oreck!


Post# 309906 , Reply# 38   12/25/2014 at 20:44 (3,381 days old) by VacuumSalesman (Berlin Heights)        
I still maintain the idea:

The sales may have caused the bankruptcy, but why weren't they making sales? It still could be the vacuum models or maybe the Oreck's hoses and attachments. The 8lbs. design was great, but the fact that they never made improvements to the 8lbs. design could contributed to loss of sales which then contributed to the bankruptcy. And I do agree that TTI isn't the best company of vacuums, but I would get a hoover over a Bissell anyday (Bissell was just for example)

Post# 309916 , Reply# 39   12/25/2014 at 22:17 (3,381 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Bissell aren't exactly producing in the U.S though are they? In Europe they have a contract with Samsung to product most of their "dry" only vacuums. As far as I know, most if not all are made in China. Not much difference to TTI manufacture worldwide...

If it was the case that the Oreck concept didn't work, why else would other brands jump in and produce their own? In my mind, they may well be "electric sweepers," but I don't know of any electric sweeper with such a large bag capacity. in the U.S Orecks may be cheap and that may well be the market that they cater to - to me the Oreck is the last of the vacuums available worldwide that offer a soft bag. Thus, anyone looking for an alternative to the classic Hoover uprights can at least buy numerous brands in the U.S that offer the similar soft bag idea.

In Europe and UK there aren't that many soft bag uprights available. And, an upright only without tools on board. There's Kirby or Oreck; a real swing from mega expensive to expensive cost price wise.


Post# 309926 , Reply# 40   12/25/2014 at 22:35 (3,381 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
;-]

stricklybojack's profile picture
The popularity of hardwood floors has out a lot of pressure on vacuum companies. Dyson/Miele is the vacuum of the younger generation, Oreck is a brand of an older generation which is now passing away. Oreck's relatively high standard price and lack of on board tools sealed their fate. Throw away vacuums are popular because for so many people anything else is too much learning curve these days.
Old man Oreck saw all this and no doubt much more and sold after whatever they tried to counter the situation came up short.
Text-book industry consolidation, nothing new.
I love their products for no real reason one the one hand, and because of the general spunk they embody on the other hand. And i should add because, for the job they are intended to accomplish, they are genius. All most everybody forgets that last one. Some do say it however, and they post here, like Tom Gasko.
BigLots on coupon day or Craigslist made them affordable for most everybody who really wanted one so lets not re-run that episode.
They had a long run on basically one product that wasn't an iPhone, so they knew how to market, 'cept that market changed.
Kirby Dan is right, under the circumstances we should be grateful for the hope TTI will do something interesting with the name rather than let it languish in history's dust bin like Indian Motorcycle did for so long. Which brings up AMF buying Harley to the jeers of seemingly everyone...but look how that turned out.



Post# 309942 , Reply# 41   12/26/2014 at 07:00 (3,380 days old) by Orecklover ()        
But...

We have seen what TTI has done to Hoover and Bissell. There shouldn't be any hope! TTI practically ruined those brands!

Post# 309943 , Reply# 42   12/26/2014 at 07:27 (3,380 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
I guess I was unaware of TTI purchasing Bissell

Shows how uninformed I am. . . again.

From Wikipedia: Must not have been updated.
Bissell Inc., also known as Bissell Homecare, is a privately owned vacuum cleaner and floor care product manufacturing corporation headquartered in Walker, Michigan in Greater Grand Rapids; the headquarters has a Grand Rapids, Michigan postal address.[3][4] The company is the number one manufacturer of floor care products in North America in terms of sales, with 20% marketshare.[5]

Apparently from the Business Journal dated 04-26-2013, the Bissell family has not been informed of the sale either.

In any case, Bissell makes some good machines. They, like TTI are trying to make the disposable full featured vacuums that the market seems to demand at a certain price point. I do see a variety of vacuums at the curb on trash day, and by variety I mean from many manufacturers, but they all appear to be in the one year life cycle genre. Properly cared for and maintained these machines could have lasted longer, but I think the price point is the driving factor on how someone cares for a piece of equipment.

Back in my Mother's day, you paid for a quality vacuum and you cared for it because it was an investment. I had a neighbor that had her Hoover since her wedding in 1950. That little machine never failed to operate when she pulled it out of the closet. In those days that vacuum may have cost the equivalent of three months pay, so it was cared for.

Today people buy vacuums that may only be equal to a days pay. Due to this price point they tend to not care for them any better than they would their broom. The attitude is "if it breaks we'll get a new one." This is not to say that you can't still get quality for a price, but there are also many cases where price does not equate quality either. But the consumer is the one in charge with their wallet.





This post was last edited 12/26/2014 at 08:12
Post# 309949 , Reply# 43   12/26/2014 at 10:07 (3,380 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
The attitude "if it breaks. we'll get another one," isn't just a consumer led changing opinion.

Brands these days like Bissell and others don't care any more to offer any kind of brand loyalty. There are no longer service personnel hosted by the company to service vacuums any more, perhaps in part due to cheaper costs that the owner can repair themselves - if they can be bothered. But I'd say this attitude of replacing a vacuum with another just because it has a cheap cost price comes down to a balance of what the company (or not, nowadays) are offering in terms of extra support.

As the owner of several Vax products since they were absored by TTI, I get "loyalty" emails from factory sale discounts and special codes. ALL owners who have registered their lengthy warranties with the Vax/TTI products get this email unless they have purposefully declined the offer. To me that's a loyalty bonus even if it means I need to spend money with Vax from time to time - but I don't always use the code, I pass it on to other UK based forums that benefit buyers or on social media sites.


Post# 309955 , Reply# 44   12/26/2014 at 12:23 (3,380 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Hoover was a perfect company..

stricklybojack's profile picture
rolling in cash and too many customers to count...and then they were bought? No the company was on the skids for decades and then they were bought. What put them on the skids? Lack of customers for their product at the price point they needed to get to be profitable. The fact of the matter is in rust bowl America, good 'ol blank inc. (insert company name of your choice) was facing a different market place and not able to adapt in time to placate it's owners who then sold. A typical culprit is cuts to the R and D budgets and things like that. But even that isn't so simple because some companies survive with old designs where others falter with new ones.
Kirby sold out to Berkshire Hathaway and made it work, but they are not the same company either it would seem.
The rub is so many here are delightfully faithful to brands who may not deserve such loyalty, or at least such loyalty is out of place, as these are profit driven entities from start to finish. Some companies do it with a flair, style, or even a stated desire to better the world; but at the end of the day the marketplace is often not as high minded.
If one considers the rate of inflation and the cost of most of the new vacuums that are sold today you can begin to fathom the enormity of the situation facing these businesses over the last four decades.


Post# 309956 , Reply# 45   12/26/2014 at 12:54 (3,380 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        

Much of what was done to Hoover, happened before the TTI acquisition. Under Maytag the Hoover company was a possession in their portfolio, but as stated above they provided a smaller R&D. Once Maytag was sold to Whirlpool, who had already gotten out of the vac business once, it was speculated they would part it out. The sale to TTI did save Hoover, but not the Hoover of Yore.

Another company, Royal, owned by TTI has not done badly under their ownership. They did try to bring out a new concept, the Powercast, but consumers did not flock to it. They still build the Everlast series that is a direct air solidly built machine.

My experience with other Royal lines is limited, but I wouldn't say the company was ruined under TTI. I can't say that I didn't hate the idea of these companies being sold to foreign owners, because I did; then again Chrysler has changed to foreign ownership twice in the last decade or so, nothing stays the same--unfortunately.

I wanted to add, and this is my opinion and only my opinion. I think that Oreck was a solid company with David Oreck as a great spokesman and marketer. I think Oreck's problems began after Hurricane Katrina caused so much damage resulting in a great debt load being added to the company. Even with insurance, that hardly covers everything, the cost of moving, retooling, etc. was hard on the company as it was on many other companies that suffered this amount of loss.




This post was last edited 12/26/2014 at 13:16
Post# 309969 , Reply# 46   12/26/2014 at 16:56 (3,380 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I thought Oreck were solid until they released that bagless upright.

Post# 309971 , Reply# 47   12/26/2014 at 17:28 (3,380 days old) by Sleepdoc (St. Louis, MO)        

sleepdoc's profile picture
The XL21 was a good machine. Didn't care for anything prior to that or any of the lower models (all of them; that was the TOL). The Freedom and Supralite are better vacuums. I have the TOL models with metal rollers, HEPA bags, lifetime belts with protectors, and I have all of them a lot, including different Orecks. I'll take the Simplicity/Riccar without even having to think about it.

Post# 309973 , Reply# 48   12/26/2014 at 17:59 (3,380 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
Sleepdoc

Agree


Post# 309980 , Reply# 49   12/26/2014 at 19:24 (3,380 days old) by daknx1994 (Southern Indiana)        

Has anyone ever heard of "If it ain't broke don't fix it?" Why would Oreck stay with practically the same design all of these years if it did not work? As I have said the classic Oreck's may not clean the best, but to the average consumer it does not really matter. Someone earlier made the statement of when people go to the store for a vacuum they are looking for one with "sleek designs or a specific brand." That is how it is at my store when people come in for... hold your breath...Oreck's! Or even Simplicity. People have heard of these names somewhere either the internet or a friend/relative. Also the number of younger people who buy Oreck's or Simplicity Freedom surprise me. It is not just the elderly who make these purchases. And yes, Oreck's can last as I have seen numerous come in, some that are in cleaning services, and some that are in the 15+ life span. Lastly what has been hurting Oreck financially other than Katrina is Oreck themselves. Oreck did not help their dealers out hardly at all. If Oreck ran a special sale on an item online or by direct selling, none of the stores could match that price, they always had to stay above it. Oreck was not to fast at shipping out product to their dealers either. Dealers would have to wait for product to be sent that has already been paid for thus holding up sales. Also Oreck was so far into direct selling that they had not ventured into the big box market until recently.

Post# 309990 , Reply# 50   12/26/2014 at 20:42 (3,380 days old) by Orecklover ()        
well...

The oreck XL21 is an excellent machine and could probably out clean any riccar or simplicity.

Post# 309995 , Reply# 51   12/26/2014 at 21:02 (3,380 days old) by fantomfan (Rochester, New York)        
Based on Tacony's tests

fantomfan's profile picture
The Oreck XL-21 pulled out less than 20% of the test dirt. Tacony's best carpet cleaning tandem air design, pulled out 89%, more than Oreck and the Dyson combined.

Post# 310010 , Reply# 52   12/27/2014 at 03:06 (3,379 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

The vac place near me carrys Oreck.If a customer asks for one-he sells it to him-no questions asked.He won't bother trying to demo the Simplicity Freedom vacs right beside the Orecks.Oreck customers want just that--ORECK wether we thinks it works or not.

Post# 310011 , Reply# 53   12/27/2014 at 03:09 (3,379 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Tacanoy tandem air machines-we really cannot honestly compare these to Oreck vacuums-The Tacanoy machines are FULL sized vacuums-a died in the wool Oreck customer won't like those no matter how well they perform-the Oreck is MUCH lighter to use and carry.-esp up the stairs.You could compare the Oreck to the Tacanoy Freedom style vacuums,though.

Post# 310032 , Reply# 54   12/27/2014 at 10:39 (3,379 days old) by fantomfan (Rochester, New York)        
You are correct

fantomfan's profile picture
Both are very different machines. My point though was that Oreck's best upright cannot outclean a Tacony product.

Post# 310058 , Reply# 55   12/27/2014 at 16:42 (3,379 days old) by Kirbysthebest (Midwest)        
The Tandem air

Is a totally different class of vacuum than the 8lb, actually 9lb machines, however, our junior member did make the bold statement "could probably out clean any Riccar or Simplicity." so fantomfan was just advising him of test results available to the contrary. 

 


Post# 310067 , Reply# 56   12/27/2014 at 17:45 (3,379 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
21 better than a Simplicity?

blackheart's profile picture
Not a chance. When compared to a Simplicity Freedom, an older 2 speed (i call it an ultra because that's what the person who sold it to me called it) and a Hoover platinum Lightweight; The simplicity came out on top. followed by the XL-21, the ultra, and the hoover did the poorest job.

Keep in mind the debris below is what was pulled out AFTER these machine made their passes, it was done a while back so i am not sure how many passes each got.

I do like Orecks but i feel their performance is mediocre compared to high end brands but better than a lot of the cheap junky machines available.


  View Full Size
Post# 310093 , Reply# 57   12/27/2014 at 20:56 (3,379 days old) by Orecklover ()        
Oreck...

The oreck is sill the all time best ;)

Post# 310098 , Reply# 58   12/27/2014 at 21:31 (3,379 days old) by ralph123 (Little Rock, AR)        

So who did the most damage to Oreck? The competition from Hoover's 8lb vacuum and the Riccar/Simplicity 9 pounders? Or perhaps the folksy James Dyson and his sales pitch? Shark?

Post# 310100 , Reply# 59   12/27/2014 at 21:54 (3,379 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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In my opinion, the 13lb Hoover Platinum Lightweight bagged upright does better in removing embedded dirt from medium pile carpet than any Oreck or Tacony lightweight vac. It also comes with a 35 foot cord which is longer than the ones provided on any Oreck or Tacony lightweight vac.

The Hoover is an excellent vacuum cleaner for deep cleaning carpets. And costs less than the Orecks and Tacony's. Just my opinion. :-)


Post# 310106 , Reply# 60   12/27/2014 at 23:34 (3,379 days old) by Orecklover ()        
Oh goodness the hoover..

In my experience with the hoover upright, it's a piece of garbage! I got it for my eighty year old grandparents to use (as they have used orecks in the past and wanted something different) and they can't even use it! They find it too loud, clunky and overpriced. Bags are so expensive! After they were unhappy with that, I order them a new ORECK and they left that Hoover to sit in the garage. Also, the Hoover was way more money than the orecks my mom and I saw at Sears. My grandparents have shag and low pile carpet in their house. The hoover does a horrible job on the shag, it often gets stuck on the carpet (practically eats the shag) then on the low pile carpet, it only picks up surface dirt. It doesn't even leave carpet lines. The oreck on the other hand, doesn't have any trouble with the shag, it also handles the low pile with ease. It leaves beautiful carpet lines and you can tell the carpet is clean. My opinion is based of my experiences :)

Post# 310130 , Reply# 61   12/28/2014 at 10:07 (3,378 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I actually find the Hoover to be relatively quiet. I love the extra-large bag which is so easy to change.

I have never had any problems with it on very deep carpet. The three suction channels provided by the WindTunnel design really help remove the dirt.

It was half the price of any Oreck on sale in the city. Oh well, to each his own! :-)


Post# 310142 , Reply# 62   12/28/2014 at 12:14 (3,378 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        

Type of carpet and the manner in which we vacuum has a lot to do with how much dirt is removed. My Simplicity Freedom seems to be the best fit for me and my house.I've noticed a difference in how quickly the bag fills and No, I don't think it's eating up my carpets and filling the bag with carpet fiber. I can operated this machine on my medium pile carpets and watch the dirt and grit bounce around, so I know the carpet is being agitated. My XL-21 never did that. Besides, I'm nostalgic for a steel brushroll with replaceable brush strips. Haven't had that on a machine in years.

Post# 310143 , Reply# 63   12/28/2014 at 12:48 (3,378 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
I have a HOOVER Platinum.

gottahaveahoove's profile picture
It seems relatively quiet, I find it to have great suction, the bag IS great and LARGE. I think those little moustaches are silly, I HATE the handle release on the "wrong side", and, when I plug it in, a blue light goes on, telliung me there's power. i KNOW there's power.... I plugged it in!!!
Would/do I reach for it everyday? No. It does do a great job cleaning the oriental carpets here. Now, that little "portapower wannabe"... IS strong, but LOUD, and the tools look like toys.
Was it HOOVER's finest hour? No. But, in their own way, I still like them. Would I "bash'? Never.


Post# 310146 , Reply# 64   12/28/2014 at 13:19 (3,378 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I knew that the companion PortaPower would not be great, but I got a great deal at Sears Canada for the 2-vac package (CAD $340) that I felt it was a great investment just for the upright alone. I will actually sell the PortaPower on eBay or Craigslist - hopefully some student will pay $25 to get a little compact vac for their dorm room!

I actually like the little edge bristles on the Hoover Platinum Lightweight Upright - they indeed provide enough of a "flick" to any bits and pieces near the baseboard to get them close enough to the vibrating brushes that they are removed in a pass or two.

I love the "power on" light - helps remind me that the vac is plugged in when the outlet is 30 feet away in another room. It's a great safety device.

I have never had such an effective and easy-to-use upright since we had a Eureka Bravo without tools. This Hoover is now my daily driver and I am extremely satisfied with my purchase. But to each his own, like I said! :-)



Post# 310200 , Reply# 65   12/28/2014 at 20:33 (3,378 days old) by Dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
As has been mentioned before, a frequently used Oreck- Any oreck- removes more dirt than the latest Dyson, Hoover, or Kirby that is only used once a month because it is to heavy or hard for the owner to push. No, the former machine isn't the most poweful, but it picks up the dirt before it can be embedded in the carpet pile- The latter are likely more powerful, better overall machines etc, but a single quick swipe over the floor isn't going to remove a month's worth of embedded dirt.

Post# 310315 , Reply# 66   12/30/2014 at 08:34 (3,376 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well I think it depends on the home and the owner. At the moment Im relying on quick daily cleans with my cordless uprights. Now I know they're not all that effective but they get the dirt up I can see. If I don't require to dust, then an upright only seems to work. I was never in favour of the Oreck design, let alone any upright without tools on board, but things change and as lifestyles become more hectic, I can see the advantage of not having any tools on board.

But that's when im on holiday and not working 9 to 5! When Im working six out of seven, tools on board an upright are very much a neccessity to me. I dont want the time to have to fish out a separate vacuum for dusting alone.

We all moan about how cheap and cheerful vacs have replaced quality offerings, but Id say if it wasnt for cheaper prices and variety, then it would be harder to work around just relying on one vacuum cleaner and putting up with it - but again depends on the amount of dirt in the home and the owner's actual requirements.



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