Thread Number: 27169
/ Tag: Brand New Vacuum Cleaners
Not sure I trust this EU labelling system.... |
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Post# 304133   11/2/2014 at 06:48 (3,461 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)   |   | |
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Lots of us have talked about this EU energy labelling thing for vacuum cleaners sold within the EU and whether we agree with them or not. I just can't help feeling that currently, the labelling system is very much flawed.
Lots of people on here have said this already. Mr Dyson doesn't like it because the energy labels do not take into account the "environmental impact bags have, the can not be recycled" and so on, which, is largely BS. Sorry Dyson, I love my DC41 MK2 but that is what's called making a mountain out of an ant hill. The label rating does not make sense, in terms of measuring the carpet, hard floor and emissions performance. How can a VAX upright have a rating two steps higher for carpet performance, than a Miele S7 which is regarded as being one of the best vacuums for deep down cleaning? I have a Vax ECO air, which was ratted A across the bored, but I have found it doesn't deep clean as well as my felix or the S7 I had, although it has incredible suction as the cleaner head and stiff, full bristles, they are too short. I put the felix above the miele for carpet cleaning anyway, but the vax bunny hops over thick pilled carpeting. The felix also gets B rating for carpet performance and C for hard floors. Has anyone told us who conducts these tests? As far as I know, it is the manufacturer's themselves. If that is the case, then this makes much more sense. I know Bosch and Dyson are in a tiff over Dyson claiming his machines pick up better than when Bosch tested them and said otherwise. It could turn out that some manufacturers are being more honest than others. Either Miele and SEBO are being harsh on themselves and Vax and Dyson are being deliberately biased which I can believe, or there is something seriously off with the new ECO range of German vacuum cleaners. To a lot of us, this will not be a big deal, as we don't need someone else to tell for us that one vacuum picks up better than another, but on the face of it and for the average consumer, this is a different matter. Lots to discuss here, so go ahead with your opinions and thoughts. I pick up my Felix Vogue eco tomorrow (having it delivered because couldn't be asked to drive 10 mile to get it ahaha .) I shall post a thread shortly. |
Post# 304135 , Reply# 2   11/2/2014 at 07:01 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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A lot of the ratings are utterly ridiculous.
For example, a Vax upright with no brushroll off function got a higher rating for hard floor cleaning than a straight suction Henry. An S-Class Sebo got a lower emissions rating that an air-clean Miele. |
Post# 304137 , Reply# 3   11/2/2014 at 07:06 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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Completely agree Turbo. How can the consumer make an informed choice when the ratings are all over the place! |
Post# 304141 , Reply# 4   11/2/2014 at 07:16 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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Also the Miele C3 with electric power nozzle (£600 one) also gets a C rating on carpet. I don't get it :-/ |
Post# 304143 , Reply# 5   11/2/2014 at 07:17 (3,461 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 304146 , Reply# 6   11/2/2014 at 07:24 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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Yes demonstrate outside the Brussels parliament :-) |
Post# 304147 , Reply# 7   11/2/2014 at 07:28 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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I would also like to demonstrate that limiting vacuums to 1600w is enough and we don't want the further limit of 900w not that it would do any good :-( |
Post# 304150 , Reply# 8   11/2/2014 at 07:30 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 304157 , Reply# 10   11/2/2014 at 07:51 (3,461 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)   |   | |
This post has been removed by the member who posted it. |
Post# 304159 , Reply# 11   11/2/2014 at 07:56 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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1200 is MORE than enough. Your beloved Dyson DC41mk2 is only 700w and the new Henry's are 580w. Why does a vacuum need to use more than that if it's entirely possible to get high performance with a lower wattage motor? Lowering the wattage also results in motors that don't run as hot and will (hopefully) last longer. |
Post# 304161 , Reply# 12   11/2/2014 at 08:00 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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Yes agreed. Cylinder cleaners do need a bit more power though as they have to pull through the longer hose. |
Post# 304175 , Reply# 13   11/2/2014 at 08:44 (3,461 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)   |   | |
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Is the key to a high performing motor (in terms of suction of course) down to the design of the fan ? I would imagine that would be the case, or is it how quickly the motor spins, or both ?
That is true. My dc41 mk2 has more than enough suction power at 700 watts, and I have found it doesn't emit as much heat as other, higher wattage motors. |
Post# 304178 , Reply# 14   11/2/2014 at 08:54 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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It's a combination of things, IMO. The reason dirty fan cleaners tend to perform better on carpets, is because the suction, though not as strong as clean air, has less far to travel. The nearer you can get to the fan, the stronger the suction will be. If a vacuum has loads of windy tunnels and tubes between the cleanerhead and the motor, it won't perform as well. The more direct route of the suction, the better.
The fan itself is also something to take into consideration. The suction on Oreck uprights is pretty crap, largely because the fan is so tiny. Then there are twin fan designs, the quality of the motor, materials the fan is made out of and other such things to consider. I've always viewed high wattage as a cheap cop out for vacuum manufacturers to get away with using cheap motors and poor designs. |
Post# 304181 , Reply# 15   11/2/2014 at 08:57 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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Hopefully the new EU ratings will lead to more efficient better performing motors. Maybe digital motors will become more the norm? |
Post# 304213 , Reply# 16   11/2/2014 at 13:19 (3,461 days old) by Jaker15 (Meridian, ID)   |   | |
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Take a look at the older Hoover uprights. The early models, like the 300 or 725, only had about a 300 watt motor. Even with this low wattage, they still cleaned carpets like a pro, and still do if they're in good shape. The American Electroluxes had 535 watt motors for several years until the 1205 was introduced, which had a "high performance" motor. I have a 1949 Electrolux Model XXX that is only 535 watts, and it does a perfectly good job cleaning floors and area rugs.
Personally, I don't think any vacuum needs more than a 700 watt motor to do an adequate job at cleaning your home. |
Post# 304234 , Reply# 17   11/2/2014 at 14:44 (3,461 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)   |   | |
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Post# 304235 , Reply# 18   11/2/2014 at 14:45 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 304238 , Reply# 19   11/2/2014 at 14:54 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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This global warming thing is great. It was 19 degrees UB Cardiff on Friday I was sunbathing over the park during my lunch break haha :-) |
Post# 304242 , Reply# 20   11/2/2014 at 14:57 (3,461 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)   |   | |
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Post# 304243 , Reply# 21   11/2/2014 at 15:00 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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It's going downhill this though frost expected by midweek brrrrrr :-( |
Post# 304246 , Reply# 22   11/2/2014 at 15:01 (3,461 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)   |   | |
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Post# 304249 , Reply# 23   11/2/2014 at 15:10 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 304250 , Reply# 24   11/2/2014 at 15:13 (3,461 days old) by marcusprit ()   |   | |
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Yes I think you're right there Turbo. The next few years will be very interesting. :-) |
Post# 304251 , Reply# 25   11/2/2014 at 15:15 (3,461 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 304406 , Reply# 26   11/3/2014 at 11:51 (3,460 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Some good points here.
I believe in the US it was the sales of "extra suction power" (not the "ESP" by Eureka, but similar context) that got consumers mad on trying to outdo each other with powerful vacuums, but more to do with brands versus brands in the board room and trying to outdo the other. Since then, mostly all brands have been competing with each other on extra suction power, extra motor watts. The way things are going with that new Vax Mach Air Cordless and the Bosch Athlet means there may well be more cordless vacs in the future as well as robotic discs to take care of home dust - and possibly only once or twice a month would be required to properly vacuum a home - now wouldn't that be a slap in the face for all those brands eager to keep selling vacuums and replacing them with a new model several months down the line? I don't have any fears about the changing industry in floorcare - for the most part the commercial market is steadier than the domestic one and even if, in the future manually vacuuming may well become "vintage," at least there will always be a variety. |