Thread Number: 26287
Yet more utter garbage from The Daily Mail regarding EU vacuum laws |
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Post# 294761   8/21/2014 at 10:18 (3,507 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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I see The Daily Fail are at it again. They're now encouraging people to panic-buy high power vacuums, which is completely unnecessary and pointless.
And reading some of the comments on this article is making me cringe. People really don't have a clue what they're talking about - "I love my Dyson, it's super powerful blah blah"..."yeh, love, it's only 1200w". CLICK HERE TO GO TO Turbo500's LINK |
Post# 294763 , Reply# 1   8/21/2014 at 10:47 (3,507 days old) by dys0nb0y (Luton)   |   | |
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I agree with you it's stupid don't need 2000 what's the clean the carpet The new Dyson have 700w and I've just got the exact same suction as the old ones today I went to go and see the new DC 41 and that has the exact same suction as the old one it is really powerful I will make a theme on that separately later and the Daily Mail is completely wrong And Manufacturers are making better products that don't need 2000w
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Post# 294771 , Reply# 2   8/21/2014 at 11:41 (3,506 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Well, I wrote a blog post about buying new vacuums quite a few months ago with the new EU law in mind.
Not so much for the purpose of panic buying but rather for the fact to inform buyers that they can snap up good vacuums at reduced cost prices than a lot of the new EU law uprights in particular which have gone on sale WITH far too high asking cost prices.
Witness the "E" version of the Vax Mac Air Reach. It now costs £250 to £300 or even higher for this "new" lower watt model. Compare that to the old Vax Mach Air Reach which always had 1200/1300watts and it really doesn't make sense.
A lot of buyers need to know that whilst 2017 will require vacuums to be made with less than 900 watts, it is not yet the rule. What the rule means is that vacuums that have a total of 1600 watts or lower will be allowed to go on sale and that the old stock of "high power" vacuums can be purchased for the benefit of the buyer who might not feel justified to spend £300 |
Post# 294781 , Reply# 4   8/21/2014 at 13:24 (3,506 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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One thing you guys must take into account with E vacuums is that the motors are much more advanced. They cost more to make and suppliers are not as many as with normal motors. Consumers aren't going to settle for less suction .Manufacturers have have to redesign the motors ( normal brush driven motors ) to get similar suction while spinning much slower. The advantage is that the slower spinning motors make less noise so that is a benefit. The problem is that the costs of these motors are high and as such that gets passed on to the consumer. Go and buy a motor for a green vacuum and it will be almost double the cost of the normal one. I have been really shocked at how much green motors cost straight from the supplier. Were as a Normal 2000watt hs ss motor would cost about $ 5.00 each a green motor of 900watt but with the a similar air speed as the 2000watt will cost between $9 -$13 each. Remember these prices are per unit but with a minimum order of 5000. Green does cost more but it will come down as it becomes more popular |
Post# 294784 , Reply# 5   8/21/2014 at 14:01 (3,506 days old) by oliveoiltinfoil (England, UK)   |   | |
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I do agree with a few of the comments regarding more European bureaucracy which is ridiculous and I don't buy this "oh saving the environment BS" when you have countries like India and China building coal fuelled power station every week, cutting the wattage on a vacuum motor isn't going to save the day, although it does help, there are many other appliances in homes which consume more energy and are used more frequently.
What I do think is good is that it will force manufacturers to actually put time and effort in R&D, something like the good old days. The Eco vacs I have used and got, from vax especially have very much impressed me. Brushless, magnetic motors I think is a technology that should be developed properly for vacuum cleaners, and that is something I will give credit to Dyson for, even though he didn't invent the brushless motor, and calling it "digital" is over exaggerating it to be honest. |
Post# 294790 , Reply# 8   8/21/2014 at 15:00 (3,506 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Gareth I don't really believe that smaller motors are going to be quieter from the stats already supplied in the UK for some of the "new" low Eco vacuums.
Take Hoover's Purepower - statistically according to their own website, the 2000 watt Purepower has 82 decibels of noise - the new 700 watt Purepower upright has 89decibels - so much for being quieter!
Also if you look at this sound level chart, you can see just how dangerously close Hoover are to the "dangerously noise causing ear damage," levels.
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Post# 294798 , Reply# 10   8/21/2014 at 16:13 (3,506 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Sebo Fan
Technically they should be as the motor is spinning at a far lesser speed, Some of the ones i have tested and much much quieter than their 2000watt counterparts. That said I have not tested a British hoover in a long time.
In South Africa we have no laws in place yet for this, and South Africans are hugely power hungry, If its not 2000watt they don't want it. I do wonder how it will effect AEG and Electrolux here though as the TOR models are all direct EU imports were ass the entry level models come from Chinese factory's. You are going to have a case here were the entry level models will be more powerful than the TOR models .
On the topic of Noise I am doing some testing on a shopvac style vacuum for a friend of mine, I was given 15 different competitor machines as well as 7 different sample machines to decide which would fair better against the competition. One of the samples the least powerful in suction as well as wattage was the nosiest , 94 db |
Post# 294802 , Reply# 13   8/21/2014 at 16:41 (3,506 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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I noticed a noticeable difference between my modern USA vacuums and thier 220v counterparts. I have a few machines that I have bought off people who have brought them back to SA after living in the states. Most noticeable is the Miele vacuums. The models that come from the USA are good but the 2000watt 220volt ones have much much more suction. the 220v versions stick to the floor like glue were as the 110v versions are easier to move.
My AEG Ultra one is also a mean sucker but its 110v Electrolux counterpart was a little unimpressive on the power front although it had the advantage of a cool PN . but using the attachments and the 220v 2100watt wins hands down |
Post# 294818 , Reply# 14   8/21/2014 at 18:08 (3,506 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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As I have said in other threads with a view to the EU laws, the only aspect that worries me is that brands won't be redesigning motors that well, but rather just capping them for a lower wattage to justify the law.
I don't think brands will go far enough to produce efficient vacuums that have low noise, and infact, all the things I've come to like with both Miele and SEBO vacuums. It seems buying German for an easier life may be the way forward, even if the prices are still high.
I have no idea what Electrolux are planning. They have already phased out their name in the UK on their own vacuums with only Zanussi taking the budget end and AEG the premium end. Both brands currently don't have low 700 watt main size vacuums - they may well be the last brands to conform. |
Post# 294855 , Reply# 15   8/21/2014 at 23:02 (3,506 days old) by DesertTortoise ()   |   | |
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gsheen, how much power is lost through the step down transformer you have to use and is your power 50 Hz or the 60 Hz of the US? |
Post# 294871 , Reply# 16   8/22/2014 at 00:52 (3,506 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Sebo Fan, AEG already has the green range , with 1300watt motors instead of the 2100 watt used in most of their machines.
Deserttortoise
On the smaller step down a small amount is lost but in my home I have the mother of all step down transformers due to the fact that most of our large appliances are from the USA, It has 380v 3phase power feeding it and is the size of a small ride on lawnmower,
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Post# 294880 , Reply# 17   8/22/2014 at 04:59 (3,506 days old) by turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)   |   | |
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I hardly think capping vacuum wattage is comparable to nazi Germany. Isn't there a limit in vacuum wattage in the US already?
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is how unreliable these cheap, high power vacuums are. The motors run too hot and the filters clog, causing the machine to overheat and wear out altogether in a few years. Then what happens? It goes to the tip and people but a new one, because it's so cheap to do that now. But there's the cost to the local council of getting rid of the old one, and they're building up. I was at my local household waste centre in the summer getting rid of garden waste. I had a sneaky peak in the electrical shed and it was FULL of cheap, high power, bagless vacuums that can't have been more than a few years old. |
Post# 294881 , Reply# 18   8/22/2014 at 06:02 (3,506 days old) by parwaz786 ( )   |   | |
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I am still tempted to go to Argos and get a DC33 Multi floor |
Post# 294884 , Reply# 19   8/22/2014 at 06:29 (3,506 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Gareth, 1300 watts in the AEG line up is of the older range - a bit like the 1300 watt motors in the Vax Mach Air range, before being replaced later this year with the newer lower watt motors.
Still, AEG are also selling vacuums in the UK which have 2000 watts or more, though they do have a green 700 watt model in Germany that I put a thread about on here so many months ago - the UOGREEN 700 watt cylinder vac - but it hasn't arrived here yet - the lowest motor they have is 1250 watts which is a better sign on the Ultra bagged cylinder vac series.
Current range shown from UK website
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Post# 294898 , Reply# 20   8/22/2014 at 09:11 (3,506 days old) by adamthemieleman (North Yorkshire )   |   | |
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Actually AEG do have a low wattage, its called the UltraFlex. looks a bit like the ultracaptic, but a bit more refined. It is 650w CLICK HERE TO GO TO adamthemieleman's LINK |
Post# 294906 , Reply# 22   8/22/2014 at 09:49 (3,506 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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Hmmm then why in my box is there are 20, 25 & 30amp oh & several 60amp? I know what they're all for, you must have old wiring circuit breakers then. This house was built in the 80's. I checked the new home that's being newly built & freshly wired in that circuit box the same thing minus the 30amp, no hot tub.
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Post# 294911 , Reply# 23   8/22/2014 at 10:04 (3,506 days old) by DesertTortoise ()   |   | |
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What are those breakers for? In my home I have four 20 amp breakers for the kitchen, specifically the disposer, stove, fridge and dishwasher, and all the rest of the breakers are 15 amp. 20 amp is the highest I have. |
Post# 294912 , Reply# 24   8/22/2014 at 10:05 (3,506 days old) by DesertTortoise ()   |   | |
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Btw, my house was built in 2007. |
Post# 294922 , Reply# 25   8/22/2014 at 11:37 (3,505 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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20amps are for the outlets/lights, 60amps for the hvac, heat & halogen hob, 30amps for the water heater, dryer & hot tub & for the gfi outlets in the kitchen. That's probably why the didn't run a separate line for the central vacuum, hasn't blown anything plus I checked the breaker & it wasn't hot. One other thing when the hvac kicks on none of the light dim in the house
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Post# 294923 , Reply# 26   8/22/2014 at 11:38 (3,505 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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Post# 294935 , Reply# 28   8/22/2014 at 12:29 (3,505 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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LOL the vacuum would turn inside out from the pull. Just romex & plastic & I would think in the crawl space they would be protected but it's not, just stapled to the joists. For running something like that you would almost have to get a fuel powered generator & just think no more blown anything your testing. Oh & how they wired it here (thank God) the ceiling lights are different from the outlets. I hated that when something blew in the house in Fla the entire room when dark, at least here you can switch a floor lamp on & was also great when I had to change the switch in the bath, just brought in a desk lamp & the power from the wall was still on. BUT here since were high up on the Plateau our power goes out frequently in the winter is the worst
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Post# 294948 , Reply# 30   8/22/2014 at 13:12 (3,505 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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Post# 294968 , Reply# 33   8/22/2014 at 15:11 (3,505 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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Post# 294980 , Reply# 35   8/22/2014 at 16:04 (3,505 days old) by marks_here (_._)   |   | |
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They tried to get the state line closer into Ga a couple years back but it was shot down. I hear ya DT I/we don't make the laws, don't understand them & probably most were created at night behind closed doors without anyone's knowing & passed before anyone can question or bitch about. It's really sad because it hurts a lot of people that really need the help.
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Post# 295087 , Reply# 36   8/23/2014 at 06:23 (3,505 days old) by suctionselector (Leeds, England)   |   | |
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Even more bull from the Fail reccomending to buy cheap bagless screamers...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-... CLICK HERE TO GO TO suctionselector's LINK |
Post# 295102 , Reply# 37   8/23/2014 at 08:54 (3,505 days old) by DesertTortoise ()   |   | |
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Do those "newspapers" still feature a page three girl? |
Post# 295104 , Reply# 38   8/23/2014 at 08:58 (3,505 days old) by DesertTortoise ()   |   | |
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Sounds like the D-M is worried the new vacs won't keep up with the messes the sports reporters leave in their office spaces. |
Post# 295466 , Reply# 39   8/26/2014 at 08:41 (3,502 days old) by spiraclean (UK)   |   | |
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Which? subscribers should be demanding a lot better than this. Here they are basically advocating panic buying, which I always thought went against everything the Consumers' Association originally stood for. Wasn't there once a time when they encouraged their readers to employ a little critical thinking (e.g. questioning claims, researching and comparing) when making a major purchase, so as to help them spend their money wisely? I didn't always agree 100% with their product recommendations or slams, but at least the testing articles themselves provided a solid enough foundation for shoppers to know what attributes to look out for and why.
Of course, to find out what these Best Buy vacs we ought to be buying NOW are, one has to sign up for a subscription. Easy to do online, just a few clicks. Not so easy to cancel mind, you'll need to phone and speak to Which? in order to do that. As always, it's sensationalist bilge intended to keep the subscription £££ rolling in. A fair few manufacturers aren't fully on board with these new regs, and are only complying under duress. Let's not also forget that an awful lot of manufacturers these days are happy to promote Which? by including their Best Buy status on their websites, and applying stickers to products on the assembly line. Something tells me such promotion would come to an abrupt halt if Which? actually had the balls say most vac manufacturers are only interested in advertising more watts than their competition, and hinting that they ought to put on their big girl panties and actually come up with something that performs as it should while meeting the new regs. Especially if they pointed out that some of their competitors (e.g. Numatic) had already done exactly that, ahead of time and without whinging to the press or TV about it. |
Post# 295491 , Reply# 40   8/26/2014 at 11:12 (3,501 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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The problem I find, is that Which subscribers are often clueless. They won't demand anything, or if they do, Which turn a blind eye to it. Which know best and they won't stand down despite heavy criticism aimed at their report findings on their "member only forum."
I subscribed for a year and lost interest. The moment they tested the SEBO D2 and couldn't find the bag fill indicator was a case in point. Thereafter, they continually cut down "Best Buys" in certain Miele models just because they didn't have the upgraded filters. No change of floor head or motor, but suddenly a big change in testing performance. When, or if you are a Miele owner like I have been and had quite a few models pass through your hands, you'll know the salt from the pepper.
A filter upgrade does not improve performance. Which fail to recognise that.
There was almost a heavy uproar from Numatic owners too, when Which slated Henry. They failed to take into consideration that Henry is most widely used and failed to recognise key points on the vacuum cleaner. I recall the forum well; constant complaints to Which until they finally relented and tested the Henry again; but I still haven't seen that "new" report since unsubscribing...
There's a lot more discrepancies as time goes on when reading reports that they do, not just with vacuum cleaners. That's why I gave up on them.
Its about time there was another UK organisation who could take on Which. Perhaps only then, the company concerned would become a lot fairer and not be so controlling for consumer products and services. |
Post# 295827 , Reply# 42   8/28/2014 at 12:44 (3,499 days old) by Adamthemieleman (North Yorkshire )   |   | |
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In fact some customer today had that article, I said to her the best place for it is in the bin! |