Thread Number: 26038
compact c5 questions, help 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 291992   8/5/2014 at 02:07 (3,546 days old) by outdoorjoe ()        

hi there I have a couple questions. I have a given to me c5 that has nothing except the cloth bag. no hose attachments or powerhead. It powers up fine but motor sounds old. may have to replace it.

where can I get a good hose, metal tubes, power head and floor tools for this gift?

My second question is, the cxl. do all the previous c models and the cxl have the exact same ametek lamb 2 stage motor? (not including the 2 speed motor)what makes the clx so much better? just curious. thanks Joe

Post# 292012 , Reply# 1   8/5/2014 at 10:42 (3,545 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

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The model C-1 used a Black and Decker motor, using 5 amps.
Model C-2 used a Lamb motor using 5 amps
Models C-4, C-5, C-6, C-7 used a Lamb motor using 7 amps
C-8 and C-9, plus the Tri-Star CXL models all used a Lamb "High Efficiency" motor using 10 amps.

The field coil is too large to fit the motor bucket (the black cap over the field coils that allow the machine to be used as a blower), so swapping a High Efficiency Lamb motor into a C-4, C-5, C-6 or C-7 is not possible unless you get rid of the motor bucket (and the ability to use the exhaust air as a blower to unclog a hose, for example).

Post# 292021 , Reply# 2   8/5/2014 at 12:49 (3,545 days old) by hydralique (Los Angeles)        
All that I know . . .

 The C-5 is a rare model made from about '59-'61, the only Compact with three wheels. It is famously misidentified in Tri-Star’s own history poster as a C-6. Models before the C-5 had two rear wheels and two front skids, while models after it had four wheels.

I have a C-2, C-5, C-6 and TriStar C-80-2 (two speed model). All except the C-2 were built in Anaheim, while the C-2 was built in Interstate’s old El Segundo factory. According to the plate or molding on the underside of the vacuum, the C-2 motor is 540 watts (aka 4.7 amps at 115v), the C-5 is 6 amps, the C-6 is 7 amps and the C-80-2 is 7.5 amps, all without powerheads. I know some of the TriStar DXL models had a 9.5 amp rating, again without the powerhead, though I don’t think they all were this high.

Regarding the C-5 powerhead, this was the famous ABC or “Always Beauty Clean” unit. These are incredibly rare so don’t count on finding one ever. Clearly Interstate intended to move a lot of these as many C-5s and even a few early C-6s had the power port on the right upper side of the vac body but it seems as if they didn’t have the powerhead available in quantity. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me knows the whole story on the ABC. Interstate may have been affected by the Lewyt debacle where Lewyt came out with an early motor-driven powerhead in the late ‘50s that worked well initially but once the vac’s motor had worn it was possible for the powerhead electrical supply to shock the user. That caused lawsuits, sunk Lewyt and gave motor driven powerheads a bad name in some circles. However, Whirlpool/Sears and Electrolux were other early powerhead adopters that used a safer design (IIRC Whirlpool even before Lewyt) and they all continued to market them.

After the very early C-6s Interstate didn’t even put the powerhead port on Compacts, instead they offered an air turbine brush on C-7s as an option. This is similar to NuTone’s unit but has “Cyclonic” written on it. With the C-8 in the late ‘70s they got back into powerheads in a big way but the power port is at the bottom front of the vac between the two front wheels (pretty much where the single front wheel is on the C-5). It should be possible to adapt another powerhead to the C-5 but the OEM type Compact/Tristar electric hose will need to modified since the electrical cord on the vac end is intended to just be long enough to plug into the lower front location and I doubt it would stretch all the way to the upper right side where the port is on the C-5. Should be simple enough but will take some splicing.

Given the rarity of the C-5 it might be easiest to just pick up a later model off eBay with the powerhead, hose and tools and keep the C-5 for when you don’t need the powerhead. One thing about most any old canister vacuum is that it is much easier to get the vacuum than the tools, in particular wands and floor tools; for some reason people hang onto these when they sell the vac. So I’d look for a C-8, CXL or DXL with the tools, hose and wands included. It’s much cheaper to buy this way than trying to piecemeal individual items. With the C-7 Interstate switched from friction lock tools to button lock tools but the hose end at the machine is the same so you can use the later hose and tools with the C-5.

Pic is of a DXL from eBay, the most powerful original style TriStar I've ever seen. I'd love to have one of these!

Post# 292051 , Reply# 3   8/5/2014 at 17:57 (3,545 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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I thought the above sounded wrong, had to pull out my C4, its only 5 amps

Post# 292055 , Reply# 4   8/5/2014 at 18:18 (3,545 days old) by KC_Kirby (Kansas City, MO)        

Here is a pic of the model number sticker on my Tri Star CXL. It shows it has 7.8 amps without the power nozzle and 10.5 with the power nozzle. And my C5 has 7 amps. So they must have upped the amps in the middle of the C5 run from 6 to 7 amps. Unless the C5 with the Power Brush was 7 amps and the one without was 6 amps. I am one of the lucky one's to have the ABC power nozzle for mine. The bottom plate on the ABC nozzle says 1 amp.

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Post# 292061 , Reply# 5   8/5/2014 at 19:54 (3,545 days old) by outdoorjoe ()        
Great info!

 thanks for all the great replies. I can verify this compact has 3 wheels and the plate does read c5 pb and 7 amps. I'll post a pic tonight. unfortunately someone repainted it an ugly gray where it was once turquoise. Im thinking about getting a cxl as I would like to use it in this house. lots of woof floors, slate and some carpet. The kirbys don't like the slate so i need a canister. I really like the compact/ tristar. looks like it can follow me easily:)

Post# 292065 , Reply# 6   8/5/2014 at 20:23 (3,545 days old) by outdoorjoe ()        
pictures

 the compact next to an un-restored kirby 510

Btw, I own a business commercial and residential carpet cleaning. I only use shake out kirbys for pre vacuuming. man can they save me time with that huge bag and. I use nothing newer than a classic 3

I have a mint d 80 that still has the horse hair brush roll and every attachment:)

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Post# 292081 , Reply# 7   8/5/2014 at 21:28 (3,545 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

I'm picturing this guy showing up in a uniform with a company truck to clean someone's home or business carpets and the first thing he does is drag out an old Kirby and goes vacuuming. I've had a lot of carpets cleaned over the years and never once saw a crew pre-vacuum, much less with a big old honking Kirby. That's one way I guess to work your hobby in with your job :-)

Post# 292086 , Reply# 8   8/5/2014 at 21:56 (3,545 days old) by outdoorjoe ()        

Ha! well, if a pro doesn't pre vacuum, the extractor filters get clogged and loss of water lift is unacceptable for so many reasons. It's rare for me to walk in to a customers place and not need to pre-vac. I bet I could go into anybody's house here on this forum and never need to pre-vac LOL. I have to admit it is somewhat go a guilty pleasure. With all the research I had to do, quite a few commercial guys use older kirbys pre 80's thus began my obsession with strong kirbys!

Post# 292108 , Reply# 9   8/6/2014 at 00:29 (3,545 days old) by hydralique (Los Angeles)        
Joe and KC . . .

 Those are interesting photos and they do open a question. Your two C5-PB machines have the identical casting plate that notes 7 amps with the 7 in a little raised circle but does not specify if that is with or without the ABC powerhead. Mine is also a C5-PB but is obviously a little earlier since it has both the casting plate and a decal below that. The casting plate is hard to read in the photo below but it very clearly states 6 amps and calls the vac out as a C-5 only, not a PB. However the decal identifies it as a C5-PB and notes 7 amps. It seems likely that it is an early C5-PB before they had the new casting plate, and has a 6 amp motor but pulls 7 amps with the ABC powerhead. For that reason I’m thinking your machines also have the 6 amp motor and that the 7 amp figure is with the powerhead. I doubt UL would have allowed them to note less than the total draw of the vac with the powerhead operating.

My C-6 has a casting plate that says 7 amps but since there is no ABC port it must have a 7 amp motor. One thing I have noticed is that the C-6 has the later style domed plastic secondary filter over the motor similar to the one used all the way into the TriStar years, while the C-5 has a flat expanded metal secondary filter with a rubber collar as shown in the photo.

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Post# 292123 , Reply# 10   8/6/2014 at 09:04 (3,544 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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Nice pics to see

Post# 292126 , Reply# 11   8/6/2014 at 09:38 (3,544 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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any idea folks when they went from the gray wheels/ skids to the blue?

Post# 292140 , Reply# 12   8/6/2014 at 13:21 (3,544 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        
Filter Queen Motor

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Just in case anyone was wondering, when Tom Gasko mentioned above the Ametek high efficiency motors won't fit, he's right. But a Canadian single speed Filter Queen Ametek 6 amp double stage motor will fit & is a perfect substitute for the Compact motor. It also pulls 80" waterlift as the Compact motor pulled. The motor in the link below is exactly identical in appearance & size, it just pulls 90" waterlift & uses 8.3 amps instead, so it might be easier to just get this motor instead of trying to find a Filter Queen dealer in Canada & try to convince them to sell & send you this motor.

Rob

CLICK HERE TO GO TO kirbylux77's LINK
Post# 293080 , Reply# 13   8/11/2014 at 21:39 (3,539 days old) by marks_here (_._)        

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