Thread Number: 25696
Electroluvin on a Sunday morning
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Post# 288523   7/13/2014 at 16:25 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

The Desert Tortoise is way out of his lane here. This is what $25 bucks and some morning elbow grease looks like.

This one won't be a restoration, just a good functional clean up. When I figured out how to get the halves apart and how to remove the motor and power cord, I could not determine how to remove the bag compartment from the lower half. With all that wiring in there and no obvious way to get the bag compartment out, I settled for hand cleaning it using wet towels and a long thin flat blade screwdriver to work the wands into the many little webs in that lower casting.

It was filthy inside, but the images don't convey how ripe it smelled. The inside of the rear of the bag compartment and the motor side of the intake were encrusted with something, um, fragrant. Not sure if it was cat crap or vomit (or both?), but whatever it was I am certain it made it's way through the motor. The piece of carpet pile hanging from the fan in one image is all you need to know. When I split it open the stench was overwhelming. It required a lot of scrubbing with Zeps Big Orange, and even still when I poked a rag down into the cast recesses behind the processor board I found more of whatever contaminated that poor vacuum. Now it either smells good or my sniffer simply started to ignore the stench.

Nice materials everywhere, looks to be very robust and durable, but not a very good design. There is no secondary filtration and exhaust air makes it's way everywhere inside the vac. I thought my Kenmore canisters had poor exhaust air segregation but this vac is worse. And with no secondary filtration you are entrusted entirely to a filter bag. This vac is proof it doesn't work. In my images you will see my partial solution to this problem.

Stay tuned because the wands and powered brush are even worse looking. They are next up but I have to buy a brush roll and belt before I tackle them. The wands and control handle don't impress me, not for the kind of money these things fetched when new. Both are cool looking but needlessly fragile. The one place were thick, heavy duty plastics are an absolute necessity (face it, handles get dropped on floors, it happens) and they used thin fragile materials. And what exactly is wrong with simple steel button lock wands with a power cord running up the back? The lower wand is stuck in the brush swivel, probably have to loosen it with some WD-40. Looking at the underside of the brush you can see it doesn't do edges well. The brush roll doesn't extend all the way to either side of the head like a Powermate brush roll does.

It's a $25 learning experience. I'll replace the hose with an OEM replacement, replace the brush rolls and belts in the floor brush and Sidekick 2 and see how it works. I think eventually I will adapt a four wire Kenmore hose to the Electrolux hose end at the vacuum, use a Kenmore handle for a multi-speed motor (I am pretty sure the Progressive line offered a vac with three speeds on the handle like this Electrolux) and run Kenmore wands and Powermate. The Electrolux stuff is too fragile in my opinion for a hard working daily vacuum.

Enjoy the images. These are the before images before I got busy cleaning. The after images and the secondary filtration tutorial are to follow. The Kenmore restoration staff was not impressed by this interloper, as you can see. I have some blood equity in this project now.


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Post# 288524 , Reply# 1   7/13/2014 at 16:27 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Here are the after photos.

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Post# 288525 , Reply# 2   7/13/2014 at 16:33 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

And here is the completed vac (assuming it runs, need an R bag for it or it won't turn on) and a little tutorial on using Kenmore Progressive and Intuition secondary filter material to protect the motor of this beast from being FODDED again. (FOD is aviation speak for Foreign Object Damage, when something solid is sucked through a turbine engine, like a bird or rocks).

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Post# 288526 , Reply# 3   7/13/2014 at 16:34 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Ain't she Purdy!

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Post# 288529 , Reply# 4   7/13/2014 at 17:00 (3,573 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

As I said in the other thread, this is my least favorite of Electrolux designs and now you know why it was also the shortest lived TOL range ever. The handles and wands actually hold up fairly well in spite of the materials used. The worst were the Renaissance with the touch controls, those were and are very fragile. Nothing wrong with good old metal wands, the exact reason I have only 2 of the later tanks. Can't wait to see you using a Centec head with this... 

 

BTW - no other Elux/Aerus design is anywhere near as bad as the R units... just my opinion, I know there are those out there that love them, I am not among them.


Post# 288537 , Reply# 5   7/13/2014 at 17:15 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Honestly, the only two things that will require innovation are attaching a Kenmore four wire hose to the Electrolux vacuum hose end, which I don't think is all that sporting, and then determining if the Kenmore speed control will work with the Electrolux processor. I will have to find some data on what kind of voltage goes up the hose to the switch and what voltages return to see what the processor is looking for, and do some fooling around with a Kenmore switch and a VOM to see if it sends the right voltages back when fed the right input voltage. I don't think it will be terribly difficult. Vacuums are ultimately pretty simple and there are only so many ways to make a motor change speed.

So this model was kind of a turd eh? It sure smelled like one went through the motor! I think my little secondary filter mod and a good HEPA bag is all the thing needs really. I was kind of surprised how easy it was.


Post# 288538 , Reply# 6   7/13/2014 at 17:30 (3,573 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

They are all very easy to work on. The hose/PN change won't be too difficult, I agree. I just want to see the results ;-) I've used other PNs with my older tanks but not with the 2 new ones.

 

Someone used it to pick up something wet and disgusting... so much fun. I found my Legacy out on the curb on trash day. Looked nice from the outside. Inside was much the same as yours but I could identify the material... the contents of a kitty litter box, by sight and smell. Took about 3 hours to get it really clean and all the dried material out of the fans and around the armature... but the thermal overload switch did it's job and the thing runs like new with only a new brushroll, belt and a good clean. All the tools were there with it as well.


Post# 288541 , Reply# 7   7/13/2014 at 17:37 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Wow, you're fast. I didn't even try to disassemble the motor and spent more than three hours working on it. If something is caked on inside that motor, that will have to wait for another day.

Post# 288548 , Reply# 8   7/13/2014 at 17:58 (3,573 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

I've pulled about 100 Electroluxes apart. it gets easy with practice. I also just put everything but the motor in the dishwasher after a good hosing off out side. While that ran a scrub cycle, I cleaned the motor.  All the plastic bits were washed and dried before I finished the motor. Takes me about an hour on a metal tank excluding motor.. they are very easy. In 4 I can do a full restoration with a new paint job, brushes and bearings, add an hour if it needs dent and rust removal.


Post# 288550 , Reply# 9   7/13/2014 at 18:02 (3,573 days old) by marks_here (_._)        
Question??

marks_here's profile picture
Is that the same circuit board what on the Reni or did they do that one different?

Post# 288565 , Reply# 10   7/13/2014 at 21:21 (3,573 days old) by Paul (USA)        

One of the vacuum cleaner stores in my area sells the filters in large sections (something like 3' x 5') from which filters can be cut. I don't know the price, but I wonder if it would be a better buy than the 5" x 5" ones sold individually? You would think home improvement stores would carry the product or something similar.

Would that material also work in the older metal vacuums without placing stress on the motor or reducing suction?


Post# 288568 , Reply# 11   7/13/2014 at 21:39 (3,573 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

Very nice work!


Post# 288580 , Reply# 12   7/13/2014 at 23:31 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

I doubt the filter media hurts suction. Those 5X5 filters are the secondary filter on Kenmore Progressive and Elite Intuition canister vacs with their motor on it's side right behind the bag like an Electrolux.

I use the Electrolux filter media behind the weak Kenmore open cell foam secondary filters on many of my Kenmore canisters (see my little tutorial on the rebuild of the blue 9 Amp suction only canister) and noticed no difference in suction.

I want the motor running in as clean and filtered air as possible. You can't have clean air coming out if you don't have clean air going in. Look how filthy that vac was inside. I wish you could have smelled it! I don't want a repeat.


Post# 288582 , Reply# 13   7/13/2014 at 23:40 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Btw Paul, on my 1971 Kenmore I call the Avocado Bomber I run a little round dome HEPA filter on top of the fan housing. It's the neatest thing I think.

The ivory colored 3.9 is an example of using the Electrolux filter media in place of the crappy black open cell foam "filter" that originally went under that intake grid. I bought that particular vac for $40 on eBay as a parts vacuum for a very nice original 4.1 off that same series of vacs that my parents bought in 1982. It looked crappy on eBay. Look how the inside of the lid shines. I opened the box and that is what I saw. Even the inside of the motor compartment is spotless. I could not part it out in a million years.

You can browse the debate about how to fix the Avocado Bomber's broken lid hinge in another thread.


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Post# 288584 , Reply# 14   7/13/2014 at 23:52 (3,573 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Gr8DaneDad, disassembling an Electrolux motor must be much more straightforward than a Lamb. I spent a couple of hours slowly tink-tink-tinking away at the fan housings to loosen them and the upper stage closest to the motor, that housing has a few tooth marks in it now from the effort. I still haven't been able to separate the fields from the base (but a member here gave me a tip I haven't had time today to try). Are Electrolux motors the same and you are just fast, or is it easier to get the fan housing off them?

Post# 288600 , Reply# 15   7/14/2014 at 05:31 (3,572 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

it really all just depends on condition. But I've also made jigs for the drill press to drill out rivets that hold bearings in place and I've been known to stand the motor up on the fan in a container of penetrating oil to get a head start on sticky fan shrouds and fans. I also have a small hoard of spare parts from motors that were in, shall we say, unrepairable condition. I have gotten faster after several dozen attempts. The older motors are much more robust than the newer and unless rusted, are fairly easy to work on. The newer motors, with all the plastic parts, take much longer and are more likely to suffer damage, especially where pieces come together. Particularly grody examples have been known to be submerged in parts cleaner for a bit or a few days when I know going in that bearings will be repacked or replaced. Hell a few have gone through the dishwasher.


Post# 288630 , Reply# 16   7/14/2014 at 12:43 (3,572 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

How do the bag compartment and lid come come out of the lower half? I could not figure that part out, so I didn't put the whold vac in sudsy water like I do the Kenmores. No bathtub pics for the salivating masses, lol.

Oh, I was finally able to wiggle the wands apart. They cleaned up nice and operate smoothly. Next up is the powered brush. Oh, it's ugly too. Looks like it's been off road. The amount of stuff wrapped around the roller is almost as high as the bristles!

I think I am going to take a stab at fixing the old hose just to see what's in there and to see if I can do it. I'll still buy a new one. Hoses don't last forever and they don't stay in production forever either.

Are the OEM brush rolls wooden, plastic or steel? What is better? I tend to prefer wood but I'm a Kenmore/Hayden kinda guy so that 'spains it.


Post# 288649 , Reply# 17   7/14/2014 at 14:52 (3,572 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

I can't help you with getting the bag compartment out. I've never had to go that far on an R model and I try to avoid them anyway so I haven't played with many. If I had one in my collection, I'd figure it out for you, but alas, I don't. Lucky for Electrolux collectors, compatible hoses do stay in production for ages, at least on the aftermarket. OEM brush rolls are wood as are all the aftermarket ones that I've seen.


Post# 288653 , Reply# 18   7/14/2014 at 15:08 (3,572 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

The brushrolls in the two tools are something other than wood. Looks like black plastic.

Post# 288689 , Reply# 19   7/14/2014 at 18:51 (3,572 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

the sidekick has a plastic brushroll, the PN should be wood, Ash to be precise.  Though aftermarket brushrolls may be alder, ask or oak, at least I've seen those 3, may be others.


Post# 288692 , Reply# 20   7/14/2014 at 19:00 (3,572 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

Geez.. I should have told you earlier too... you can make it run without a bag, just press in on the piece that sticks out on the inner door... with a bag in place it is depressed and completes the circuit allowing the motor to run. Just don't go vacuuming the floor with it :-)

 


Post# 288715 , Reply# 21   7/14/2014 at 20:45 (3,572 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
Desert guy,

super-sweeper's profile picture

Fun fact-a lot of those older Kenmore canisters had to be recalled because you can stick you finger in the moving fan! Yikes!!wink


Post# 288823 , Reply# 22   7/15/2014 at 10:08 (3,571 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Gr8DaneDad, you're right. There is so much stuff wrapped around the floor brush, but yeah it's wood.

I figured out the bag interlock and fooled the vac into running. Boy, even after cleaning everything it still reeks! I really don't want to pull the motor apart. What is the easy fix? Sit it outside and let it run for 30-45 minutes in fresh air to air the motor out? The rest of the interior of the vac, as you saw in my photos, was scrubbed clean with citrus degreaser.

My attempted hose repair was a dud. I had a vac that would not turn off and only ran on low speed. All the speeds and the on/off/floor feature worked when I tested it at the Salvation Army so it is my hose "repair" that is the culprit. A new hose ought to solve that problem.

I really want to see this thing functioning as designed, see what she has.



Post# 288824 , Reply# 23   7/15/2014 at 10:10 (3,571 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Supersweeper, that is very interesting. Now I understand why there is a little adhesive grid over the fan opening on a somewhat newer Kenmore canister I have.

Post# 288838 , Reply# 24   7/15/2014 at 11:41 (3,571 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

Short of pulling the motor apart, getting an odor out is not easy. I would either pack it in aquarium charcoal - and I mean pack that charcoal in every opening and in the fans, as much as you can - in a box just big enough to hold it all and leave it there for about a week. Choice 2 is to run the motor through a cycle in the dishwasher, or wash it with citrus cleaner... just make sure it's rinsed very well and completely dry before hooking it back up. I've done both without creating an issue but if you wash it, you may have to open her up and replace the bearings depending on how good the seals are... with this motor, seals should be good and not an issue, but the caveat is there.


Post# 288841 , Reply# 25   7/15/2014 at 11:54 (3,571 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Wash an electric motor? Wow.

Wrt aquarium charcoal, you mean pack it into the gap between the armature and the windings and everything? Sounds like a momma bear to clean the motor afterwards. Might be easier to wash it as you suggest and let is air dry in our nice hot dry desert for a week or two while I wait on a hose and brush rolls, etc..

So just submerge it in a mixture of Big Orange and hot water, agitate it, then rinse it out thoroughly and air dry? Do I try to remove the brushes first of just leave them in for the treatment? Labor wise that is the easy way to do it, just makes my boys retract thinking about it. Tell you what, that vac gets turne on outside the first couple of times, with a 10 BC fire extinguisher handy.


Post# 288852 , Reply# 26   7/15/2014 at 12:14 (3,571 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Just to check, there is no problem getting the armature wet? I am thinking of submerging the fan assembly but only brushing the field with de-greaser.

Post# 288856 , Reply# 27   7/15/2014 at 12:26 (3,571 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

Motors are very simple things... they can get wet if not electrified. It really won't hurt anything. I usually remove the carbon brushes, just because they are a wear item and it makes getting the comm clean easier. Don't leave it soaking for a few months, but a few hours wet won't hurt anything.  When you're done washing, put another vac in blower mode (if you have one) or use an air compressor to blow air through the fans and out the motor. Most of the moisture will be evaporated in short order. I've even washed one in winter and used the blower from another Electrolux to dry it in a few hours. The warm exhaust air does a fantastic job.



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