Thread Number: 25540
"throwbacks"
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Post# 286820   7/1/2014 at 20:58 (3,557 days old) by vacuumssuck213 ()        

The idea of throwbacks is growing more and more popular and while I can't say I'm fond of now days mass production cleaners Hoover eureka bissel etc I would say its high time these former giants went back to when cleaners were cool. Remake the Hoover convertible with a modern twist bring back beater bars canisters like the constellation the possibilitys are endless what are your thoughts?


Post# 286825 , Reply# 1   7/1/2014 at 21:20 (3,557 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
The thing is,

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Who would buy them? It's Bagless, Bagless, Bagless in today's world!

Only collectors would buy them, modern people don't see the value in bags and old Hoovers!


Post# 286831 , Reply# 2   7/1/2014 at 21:46 (3,557 days old) by vacuumssuck213 ()        
frog in water

First may I say Alex you are very punctual about sharing your knowledge and opinions on threads thank you. But as the subject reads a frog in water. If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will just jump out. But if you slowly turn up the heat t will boil to death. Maybe all the consumer needs is a little introduction back to bags maybe produce and it pains me to say it a bagless model of our vintage favorites with the options of bag for optimal performance. But I probably am up in the night


Post# 286834 , Reply# 3   7/1/2014 at 22:13 (3,557 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        

cb123's profile picture
I think they just throw'em in the blender nowadays, after they ransack their little pockets!

Post# 286835 , Reply# 4   7/1/2014 at 22:17 (3,557 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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One issue is the neighborhood repair/ sales shops that always carried bags/ filters which have mostly closed up.

Post# 286853 , Reply# 5   7/2/2014 at 01:10 (3,557 days old) by kirbyvertibles (Independence, KS)        

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Well, maybe they can bring back the convertible (just example) with an on-board hose and a bagless system? lol it would look like an alien convertible with the hint of the old convertible we love with beater bars and all the modern crap people today want. Heck i'd buy that

Post# 286854 , Reply# 6   7/2/2014 at 01:11 (3,557 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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Thank you, Nathan (you can call me Alex if I can call you Nathan!tongue-out)

I would love to see people turn back to bags, but I only see that happening if they discover that cheapo bagless vacuums breed the plague or something! It would be very hard to do so in a market where every vacuum in the isle is bagless! I'd love to see the class and elegance of vintage vacuums, but I am only 1 of millions of consumers! So until either WAL-MART demands bags, half of America demanding bags, or all of vacuumland marches into China and holds TTI hostage, I don't see bags coming back!

 

Calem, just don't use the good blenders! Buy one from Wal-Mart and do whatever you want with it! Although I'm doubting it will last past 10 frogs!tongue-out


Post# 286859 , Reply# 7   7/2/2014 at 01:41 (3,557 days old) by cb123 (Mobile, Al.)        
Alex,

cb123's profile picture
it would be Tiananmen Square all over again, except this time, it would be our legs sticking out from under the tank treads. We would all die for protesting against planet Wal-Marts' toxic/plastic trash. And after they cremated our crushed bones, Wal-Mart and China would have a great big hearty laugh, all this of course, after they figured out how to make lampshades out of our skins. Just picking at you....or am I?! Oh yeah, don't ever leave that Wal-Mart garbage plugged in, it's liable to burn your house down, and that's no joke!

Post# 286864 , Reply# 8   7/2/2014 at 02:14 (3,557 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
and I never do!

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I usually only leave my '86 KTV tv set and my '60s G-E clock radio plugged in when I leave home! (I'm watching the KTV now, BEAUTIFUL picture!)


Post# 286898 , Reply# 9   7/2/2014 at 10:21 (3,557 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        

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David- The reason why vacuum shops are closing is that the majority of people want bagless vacuums, & they don't want to spend a small fortune to buy a vacuum. Consumers don't care, for the most part, about why buying a bagged vacuum & buying a better quality vacuum from a vacuum shop makes sense in the long run. Yes, there are consumers out there who "get it" & will spend the big bucks to buy better quality vacuums, but they are few & far between. So, unfortunately, we can directly blame cheap bagless vacuums sold at mass merchants for vacuum shops closing, since most vacuum shops seem unwilling to offer bagless vacuums.

Nathan- I like your idea of bringing back some retro features on vacuum cleaners. However, specifically referring to beater bars, the reason they were eliminated was the beater bars were no longer effective on certain types of carpeting found in today's homes. In some cases, replacing the beater bars with bristles cleans better....I have heard this is the case with the 2nd Rainbow powerhead, the long square one, that if you replace the beater bar brushroll with the aftermarket all-brush brushroll, it improves performance. As for the Hoover Constellation, that has already been tried & failed, due to the air blowing dust all over the place, & the cheap hose, tools & turbobrush they included. I think the results would be the same if Hoover tried a third time to reintroduce the Constellation. I do think it would be nice to see more direct-air vacuums introduced into the marketplace though.

Alex- I disagree with your point that consumers couldn't be persuaded to buy bagged vacuums. The problem isn't just the consumer not wanting to spend money on bags, it's cleaning performance. Yes, I did say above to David that spending more on a better quality bagged vacuum makes sense, BUT that's because the vacuum would be better quality & bags are obviously more sanitary to deal with than dumping a dirtcup, & would be better for allergy sufferers. The problem I have always had with bagged vacuums, which I bet most consumers have experienced, is that they lose suction power & airflow very quickly & reduced cleaning performance on carpets, usually before the bag is 1/2 full. And this holds true for the vacuums I own that use HEPA cloth bags, too. The only clean-air upright or canister vacuums I own this hasn't been a problem with has been my 2 Miele canister vacuums, & for direct-air upright vacuums Kirby & Royal metal uprights. This may also be part of the reason some manufacturers, such as Panasonic, have taken to redesigning the bag cage on their vacuums, in an attempt to make suction & airflow last longer in their vacuums. Having said that, I think that Miele may have already developed the solution with their AirClean bags, as it's the one clean-air vacuum I own that the bags can be stuffed 3/4 full with dirt before cleaning power drops considerably. When the patents expire on the AirClean bags, if other vacuum manufacturers start making the AirClean bags for their vacuums & promote the fact that suction & airflow lasts considerably longer than other vacuums with normal bags, I do think that consumers could be persuaded to buy bagged vacuums again, as long as the bags aren't ridiculously overpriced as Miele bags are.

Rob


Post# 286906 , Reply# 10   7/2/2014 at 12:46 (3,557 days old) by jscarlato (Clairton, PA)        

Hoover (or should we say TTI?) came close to a throwback vacuum when they introduced their platinum lightweight upright bagged vacuum. If I recall correctly, they were sold around the $400 price point with a 6-year warranty. I bought mine new back then, and I would assume that Hoover's reasoning was to compete head-on with the Oreck XL, a lightweight bagged vacuum that is still popular with many customers. One cannot help to notice that the designs are so similar. And, Hoover accompanied the upright with a separate small canister, much like Oreck did for their XL models. Also, both are direct-air models with a high and low speed.

Having used both of these vacs in my home, this particular Hoover upright is more powerful and outcleans the Oreck hands down. The Hoover upright and canister combo was pitched to the public as a 12-amp unit to appeal to those who believe a 12-amp unit is the end-all of vacuuming power. However, the upright clocks in at 5-amps and the canister at 7-amps, which is pretty good for that size of canister.

Both the Hoover and the Oreck use the floating-head concept to tell people that height selection is automatic.

Well, as it turns out, the Hoover cleans well on most carpets, but becomes difficult to push through higher-pile carpet. Switching to the lower speed helps in this endeavor. Give Hoover a chance, and it will fumble the ball. Although the canister gets a good grade for power, the hose is short, and one cannot set the unit down to dust with it. One must either carry it or wear it over the shoulder. I'm not a fan of wearing my vacuums. Also, the toy-like tools provided with the canister are close to useless for all-round cleaning. Indeed, Hoover now provides cheap tools on all its models. I don't trust the Oreck to deep clean any of my carpets, and that Buster B canister (as they call it) isn't worth crap.

You know what I think is a good throwback bagged vacuum still produced today that harkens back to the days of the good old Convertibles and older Eurekas--the Sanitaire upright, which are good quality. I paired mine with the Eureka Mighty-Mite canister with extra optional tools. Now that proved to be a good combo.


Post# 286909 , Reply# 11   7/2/2014 at 12:55 (3,557 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
I've thought about this too.

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Can you imagine some sort of Hybrid Convertible, with a hepa bag? on board tools, (or an option of some soret)? With all of the Dial A Matic's faults, those tools, hookup, suction, etc were excellent. LED light.not the Decade 80 type Commercial, but. something.
A re figured Constellation? A cross between a Concept, windtunnel, and Constellation? Would they be wild? And, if they color coordinated them like years ago? You could get an upright, stick cleaner, canister, and polisher all in the same color group. I'd have to buy "one of each", to quote me idol, Jacqueline
Bouvier, Kennedy "onnassis".


Post# 286921 , Reply# 12   7/2/2014 at 14:20 (3,557 days old) by marks_here (_._)        

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I thought they did do a retro constellation a couple years back ... What happened to it???

Post# 286934 , Reply# 13   7/2/2014 at 16:42 (3,557 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Im puzzled -what do you mean "throwbacks." ? Do you mean "refurbished" ?

Post# 286939 , Reply# 14   7/2/2014 at 16:56 (3,557 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        
My take on 'throwbacks'

Not refurbished, but rather new technology with retro styling. Along the lines of the Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Camaro.... look quite a bit like the classics of the 60's but all the mod-cons.


Post# 286947 , Reply# 15   7/2/2014 at 17:54 (3,557 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
It's funny how I mentioned "Good Blenders"!

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Look what I picked up today (Pretty off subject, though!)


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 286974 , Reply# 16   7/2/2014 at 20:42 (3,556 days old) by vacuumssuck213 ()        
mark,

is this what you are referring to? only retro style I could find online

  View Full Size
Post# 286986 , Reply# 17   7/2/2014 at 21:26 (3,556 days old) by marks_here (_._)        
Yes...that's the one

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I thought that was great, but I guess everyone prefers the originals.

Post# 286992 , Reply# 18   7/2/2014 at 21:50 (3,556 days old) by tig21er (Indiana)        
You were

talking about bagged is a dying breed with every aisle being bagless. There are approximately 60 different brands on the U,S. market some not well known as others but the largest group are bagged vacuums. If the consumer wasn't being bombarded constantly by phony bagless claims and people had a choice they would go bagged. It happened in the 50's and can happen again today.Customers of mine that bought bagless want bagged but where they bought you had no choice.

Post# 287033 , Reply# 19   7/3/2014 at 09:55 (3,556 days old) by MikePdx ()        

My last bagless cleaner was what got me interested in vintage vacuums again. I have owned two bagless units, and I hated both of them. I would much rather have a bag (even a shakeout type) than have to mess with tapping, brushing, and washing filters. I bought a Kirby in 2004, then another, then an Electrolux, then another Kirby....than another Electrolux....LOL. You get the picture.


Post# 287048 , Reply# 20   7/3/2014 at 11:18 (3,556 days old) by gsohoover (Reidsville, NC)        
Kirby

Kirby should reconsider bringing back the 500 Series machines. A smaller construction and a 4-5 Amp motor. They would not even require 'tech drive'. The machine could also have a HEPA certified bag in it. Sell it with some needed tools in the average home. Kirby could sell this for less than half of the Sentria II. People would consider it because it is not as big or bulky as the new Kirby, also much less expensive and extravagent. Just my .02.
-Tyler


Post# 287239 , Reply# 21   7/4/2014 at 14:43 (3,555 days old) by jscarlato (Clairton, PA)        
I don't disagree, but would it be practical?

For years, I've admired Kirby for their cleaning ability, quality construction, and an array of nice tools. In some ways, Kirby's design is a throwback vacuum that has been improved and modernized over the years. When Kirby puts out a model, it is THE model, the company's top of the line, no other below it. But what about the idea of putting out a companion model, also top quality, but smaller like the 500 series and less in price? Would customers who avoid Kirby because of price and size be attracted to the smaller companion model?

At this year's VCCC convention, it was a real treat to visit the Kirby plant and see how the whole second floor is the assembly line where the current Sentria II is rolled out from individual parts to completed and boxed units. If I understood the presentation correctly, the 100-year-old Cleveland plant produces the model sold domestically, and the Texas plant produces models sold overseas. Intriguing as the idea of a companion model may be, what is the practicality of installing and maintaining (meaning more workers) a second assembly line to concurrently produce a companion model? Customers may like this idea, but not the company's bottom line.


Post# 287244 , Reply# 22   7/4/2014 at 16:31 (3,555 days old) by marks_here (_._)        
No matter how I try

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I still like how the 500 series works over the Sentria. No matter what they've done @ Kirby to remedy the skipping on my carpet it still does, different brush rolls, different back wheels, even different transmissions only for the rep @ Kirby to suggest I get new/different carpet.

Post# 287265 , Reply# 23   7/4/2014 at 23:43 (3,554 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
I would love to see,

super-sweeper's profile picture

A modern 500 series! It could be the 2000 series!tongue-out What if the belt lifter had a hole in the middle, where a cover could be removed and a hose could snap in??? surprised

 

Combined with some HEPA shake-out bag, and you'd have a best seller!


Post# 287269 , Reply# 24   7/5/2014 at 00:04 (3,554 days old) by Gr8DaneDad ()        

The hole in the beltlifter is technically improbable, no way to get a good seal without removing the belt and lifter. Shake out bag?? That would guarantee no purchase from me. Why buy new when I can just use a real 500 series?


Post# 287278 , Reply# 25   7/5/2014 at 01:46 (3,554 days old) by gsohoover (Reidsville, NC)        
Kirby 500 Series Redesign

It could be like an experiment. The top of the line model would probably sell less. Kirby may even outsell the competition. The pure simpleness of this possible machine, would make it more attractive to an average customer. The factory could possibly be equipped to make this second machine. The machine would also weight way less than your "plasti vacs", even being made out of durable aluminium. It is just a thought. I would love to see it happen, but highly unlikely.
-Tyler


Post# 287288 , Reply# 26   7/5/2014 at 04:52 (3,554 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Alternative Kirby model-this may not be so far fetched.Some consumers may like the idea of a lower priced machine.The return to a dump bag-at least have it as a choice--would appeal to those folks who like bagless machines.
The alternative Kirby model could even be used as a "deal closer" on the higher priced model-the salesman could offer the machine at a special price when purchased with the higher end machine as that "upstairs" or vacation home vacuum.Or he could suggest it could be a gift to a relative or freind.It seems "Lux" offers other models to consumers so they have a choice.


Post# 287317 , Reply# 27   7/5/2014 at 10:42 (3,554 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
It would be fun to see more retro vacs. A Convertible with LED lights and plug in attachments would be awesome. It seems to me though retro vacuums don't catch on as well as other items as people in general don't remember them in the same way they do a car or even kitchen appliances.

Also as far as bagless machines, it seems like that's all people buy anymore is bagless uprights. People think all they need is a Walmart bagless upright to clean their house. And I see a lot of people selling their vacuums because "they got laminate floors and have no more carpet". That tells me that they think a vacuum is only for carpets and not hard floors or anything else.

And I think part of the reason bagless uprights are so popular is that is all that the big retailers sell anymore. I like how Sears pushes the idea of the convenience of bagged vacuums and has a good selection of upright and canister vacuums from various brands.

But it seems Sears and Kmart are the last place most people think to buy a new vacuum. Walmart, Bed Bath and Beyond, Home Depot, Lowes, anywhere else that only seems to have bagless uprights is where they go.

And I can understand why people don't want to spend a lot on a vacuum. With all the other things that they have to spend money on that they need and less to spend money on fun things, a vacuum will be pretty low on the list for most.


Post# 287318 , Reply# 28   7/5/2014 at 10:58 (3,554 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
The problem is ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... that the Hoover Convertibles and Constellations of old -- built as they used to be built -- would never be able to compete, price-wise, with the cheap plastivacs coming out of China.

Adjusted for inflation, a Hoover Convertible from 1968 would retail for over $600. Who would pay that much for a Convertible-style vacuum when there are so many $100 specials at Walmart?


Post# 287330 , Reply# 29   7/5/2014 at 11:55 (3,554 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

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You guys are extremely optimistic. You must understand that virtually no one buys a new Kirby because they are shopping for one. The salesman gains entrance to a home, and does his thing. No distributor would stock two different models, so each salesman has two machines out on consignment. They have enough trouble keeping track of one machine per salesman. A smaller Kirby without power drive would have to be demonstrated to the customer AFTER the more expensive one, making the demo take even longer. The distributor and salesman would make LESS money (something no one wants to do). It would never fly.

Post# 287376 , Reply# 30   7/5/2014 at 20:52 (3,553 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        

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I love optimism!!!!laughing


Post# 287440 , Reply# 31   7/6/2014 at 11:17 (3,553 days old) by sptyks (Skowhegan, Maine)        

sptyks's profile picture
If you want a small light Kirby without Tech Drive, then just buy yourself a 500 series Kirby from ebay or Craig's List. That would also include the D50 and the D80. There seems to be plenty of them to be had. The downside is that they may need some minor repairs.

Post# 287448 , Reply# 32   7/6/2014 at 12:12 (3,553 days old) by DesertTortoise ()        

Retro looks with modern tech certainly sells motorcycles. Cruisers aside even Ducati got into the game with their GTS 1000 and Paul Smart editions (BMW tried with their fugly R1200C but it didn't sell, and they are trying again with the much more credible R9T, a tribute to the old R90S gentleman's express). The Ducs are beautiful retro looking bikes with modern engines and chassis. They even commissioned Pirelli to make a modern radial tire with the tread design of the iconic old Pirelli MT28 Phantom, a tire every canyon scratcher in California either had on their bike or wished they did. That was the tire that most 70s and early 80's European sport bikes wore. It was symbolic of the bikes and the era so Ducati even sweated getting that detail right, but with a modern radial tire carcass underneath.

Imagine a modern take on a Lewyt 80! Maybe not? Frankly, Kenmore would have to do very little to something like my old cream colored 4.1 to add modern filtration and bring it up to UL standards. The existing old body already has the exhaust air very well segregated and changing a filter on one is super easy. Someone would probably gripe that it doesn't have a 360 degree swivel hose I guess. Sigh.



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